I had a bad oil leak and found oil leaking badly from behind the lower intake.
The engine has been making a ticking sound, maybe a lifter, maybe worse. I did an engine flush to clean it out using the engine flush and oil and the noise got louder after that. maybe it cleaned everything so the rod could knock louder. Who knows?
I removed the intake today, and as I was cleaning up under the valve covers (everything looked to be in order), I wiped up the valley area of the little bit of water that got in there from the lower intake, and found gray stuff. Like maybe something mixed with the oil. Not sludge, and the rockers and inside of the top of the heads looked O.K., although there was a mild amount of the gray stuff in there as well. By looking at it, it looked clean, not noticeable until I wiped it up.
The rockers and all looked good and tight, and I installed the new gaskets and buttoned up the car, drained the oil and changed it, swapped the oil filter out.
I added coolant and water, started the car, and immediately, there was a knocking sound. The idle is fine, but that sound wasn't. I gave the car a little gas, and it was blowing smoke from the back but not at idle.
Any ideas?
like a bottom end knock or valvetrain noise?
Hard to tell. I've never had a car with a rod knock. SO, I'm guessing not a lifter.
Well normally a rod knock is audible every revolution. A main knock is every other revolution and much more dull. But the best way to isolate a rod knock is with a cylinder cancel test. While revving the engine at APP 1400 RPM cancel cylinders in progression. When you get to the bad cylinder when canceling it the knock should stop. But you just might have an exhaust leak. So check that carefully. And good luck my friend. Also those rear and front manifold leaks are a bitch. That is why i do not use the gaskets. I use silicone and trash the gaskets. Good Luck and i hope your engine is OK.
Also you just might have gotten coolant in the cylinders when you removed the intake. The smoke just may end after it burns off. Just a hunch.
To me, it sounds like every revolution. As far as water, after three minutes of running, the water, if any, should have been gone shouldn't it?
The idle sounds good.
What do you mean by cancel cylinders.
plug wire off, and then if the sound disappears or lessens, that's the bad one. Definitely use a plug wire plier to remove the wire and not zap the hell out of yourself, lol.
(on a side note, I'll have a shipping quote for you on those axle shafts in the next day or so. Would have done it today but I had a gun safety class and with that and work I was swamped.)
You know short them out to ground. I use the cylinder scope. But you can install short lengths of vacuum hose in the cap and in between the wires. Then use a wire with 2 alligator clips. One to the screw driver and the other on a good ground. And make sure the wire is connected GOOD. Other wise you are going to get hammered with spark energy. With the engine running hit the bare portion of the vacuum hose with the screw driver connected to a good ground. This kills the spark and if you have a rod knock you can isolate the noise to that cylinder. When the spark is killed the noise will go away identifying the bad cylinders rod bearing. Good luck
Thanks Beau. No hurry. Have a huge issue taking my time right now, and thanks for the info. I never have had to do that before.
Tom, I'll have to re-read that. I never have done that, and don't have alligator clips. I'm expecting the worst. Never made this noise before...in any engine I've had. I'm wondering if a bearing went bad and that's where the gray came from. No idea,though.
Well years ago leaded fuels used to do that. Here is something to try. Cut open the old oil filter. Then see what is in it. Once again good luck. That is a pain in the BUTT.
I'm a little confused about Tom's suggestion, but it is the same principle of Beau's. It's a good way to isolate a cylinder. May I suggest a stethescope? You can also use a long tool and hold it to your ear to use like a stethescope. I would like to see what you find when you open up the oil filter. Hate to see you having troubles again. At least you have an engine swap in your future plans! Good luck.
The 5.8 is not happening any time soon. That's for another time. Right now, gotta get a 5.0 together and ready to rawk.
Chrome with all due respect and also Beaus. NEVER REMOVE A PLUG WIRE FROM A RUNNING CAR. Especially a TFI system. Never let a plug wire fire in air. Especially a TFI one. As it will smoke the TFI faster than you can spit. Just a thought!!! If in fact he has a rod knock it really makes no difference. Shorting out plugs will pin point it to a specific cylinder. I does not change the fact the engine has to be yanked out. Just a thought!! Good luck Vinny!!:hick::hick:
Here you go Vinny
http://www.autoserviceprofessional.com/article/92150/ignition-diagnostics-you-will-actually-use-part-1
No argument here. You are right.
Just saying, oil in water is bad and the noise is just as bad. The combination of the two... in the words of the title... That's scary! I would diagnose further to pinpoint the problem and hopefully prove my thoughts wrong. But, stepping up your 5.8 plans may be the cost effective route in the end. Again, Just saying.
Tom, most of the cars I have had to isolate cylinders has been on newer cars in which I could kill a cylinder with a scan tool.
Vinny, I think catasrophic failure is on all of our minds. Please prove us wrong!
I'd love to prove you guys wrong, but, I think it's on the verge of being pulled. The gray matter is probably a bearing spewing it's metallic life into the oil. I'm going to cut open the filter tomorrow.
Vinny, you crack me up with the way you word things. Nice to see you keeping your cool in such troubling times. Things are not going so well for me at this time. My truck will be down for a while. I am stuck driving the Bird. Still having problems with the HO swap and no time to diag it. I've got it running way too rich, the idle is all over the place, It is dying at intersections due to the rich mixture, the exhaust is partially held up with bailing wire, and I have yet to replace the heater core. Snow is coming Friday. I am not a happy camper.
Once you've heard the sound a hammering main makes, you'll never forget it. Hopefully this isn't the case for you though.
My mounty engine is in it's later stages of useful life. Looks like the next couple of weekends are going to be spent searching for a clean lower mileage Exploder 5.0 :-|
been there.... heard that in my 3.8.... the reason I didn't keep it in the car.
well, one of the reasons.... lol
Going out to look for a short block today.
O.K., I've decided to go ahead and re-ring the Sport's current engine, and change the bearings. If everything else seems fine. I went and ordered new rings and bearings a few minutes ago, they'll be here tomorrow. I'm going to start pulling the engine apart Thursday. Gotta work tomorrow.
I have my short list of necessary items. Not too bad. The engine hoist will be here Monday, and I hope to have it pulled by Monday afternoon...if the hoist is here early enough. My friend has it, and I have to work Fri through Sunday, so Monday is good. Updates as they happen.
Change of plans as far as the scheduling...I'm off the weekend, so, I'll get as much done as I can by the end of the weekend.
Good luck Mr V!
How many miles? How many rrs? How much power was it making before the failure?
Travis
O.K., the engine has approx. 35,000 miles or so on it. I'm guessing it was making somewhere in the high 200's in power. Never dynoed it. As far as RRs, not sure what that means.
I started a little after 6 tonight and managed to pull the valve covers,plug wires and looms, intake upper and lower, drain the oil, drain the water, and pulled the radiator. Friday after work...weather permitting, I'll pull the headers and X-Pipe. Jerry told me to take pics, so, Saturday or Friday, whenever I work on it next, I will do just that.
Just a thought!!! How can you order bearings if the crank is wiped. You may want to wait to see if the crank is TRASH. Just a thought!! You may need a crank and most are 10/10.
yea vinnie, that was my thought too. you can't rebearing a crank, if the crank is junk.
Just curious how you came up with that number? I assume you mean at the wheels? My GT40P combo is at 85% duty cycle on the 24lb injectors at 5k rpms and 12.3:1 AFR (needs a little more tweaking) and still gaining when the transmission shifts. With the T5 and the items in your sig, you should easily be up close to 300rwhp, but a tune may also get all of that out.
Not that it matters when the engine isn't doing that now...good luck :(
Sorry to see this Vinny. It really sucks knowing how much work you've already done to it. I know it has to be frusterating to but don't give up you'll have her up and running again. Just remember how happy you get when you drive it. I know everytime I get into mine it makes everything seem okay, even if it is just for a little while. And mine doesn't have much more than the stock hp.
I think at this point it is a MOOT POINT!!!!
Seek, I meant 280 or 290 at the wheels. That's a guess. I have no idea on the power to be accurate.
As far as bearings for the crank, I'll need them anyway. If the crank is wiped out, I'll have to replace it and I'll need bearings anyway.
Once the car is back in order, I have a friend who is in charge of the vocational school's auto class, and they have a dyno.
I've got several cranks...I know it's risky getting a used crank you've never seen in person, so here's what: I'll send it to ya, if it's good, use it and pay me whatever...if it's bad, I'll pay the shipping back..?
Its in the HO engine I (mostly) tore down awhile back that had coolant in 2 cylinders...the crank is clean, it's still in the engine, whole thing wrapped up in a big bag. The engine is upside down on the stand, still has the pan on it.
That's why you need to bring it up to my garage for the winter........we can fix that!!
Hahaha! One of these days.
vinniebird,
I agree with 1Bad88tbird, I'm also sorry to hear your having problems with you engine. The bright side is you know what your doing! I hope you find your problem and it's nothing bad.
The bearings won't work though if you need to grind the crankshaft...even if you get another one. What size of bearings did you get?
When things are back together, I would be interested in seeing a dyno number. I'd like to get my car to one just so I have a base number to work from.
Vinny watch this and have a couple of laughs. As an avid hunter i get these from my buddy's. Fascinating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CI8UPHMzZm8
Vinny watch this and have a couple of laughs. As an avid hunter i get these from my buddy's. Fascinating
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CI8UPHMzZm8
Vinnie to go along with what Tom is saying, you should pull the engine apart first to determine the damage. If you do find that it spun a bearing and damaged the crank, you can either have the crank machined or buy a crank kit whichever way you decide you will get bearings that will fit that crank. The thickness of the bearing will be determined by what the diameter of the journals are after machining and what the inside bore diameter is of the rods. Hope this helps, sorry to hear about the engine problem.
Beau, if I need the crank, I'll let you know as soon as I know something. I appreciate that offer. I may have to take you up on it. Stay tuned.
Seek, if the crank is bad, I'll replace it. Beau made a great offer. So, one way or another, we'll get through this as a big happy Thunderbird/Cougar family.
At this point I have close to 6 cranks, but the one out of that HO is the best, and it should be clean...soons as I saw the coolat in cyls 2 and 6, I rolled the engine upside down and wrapped it in a big ole bag. Still has the roller lifters, spider, and dogbones if anyone is interested. In fact, I have 2 sets, the other is pulled already from my '87 SO Tbrd engine. All in good shape, just need to clean the crud from being inside the engine. I just bagged in big freezer bags and stashed 'em away for someday when they were needs ASAP.
Anyway, this is Vin's thread...send me a PM for the stuff I mentioend and nt take away from this thread please :) Sorry Vman for stepping outta line hoss....love ya bro :) lol
Hell, I can go one better. I can pull the crank (carefully..I've done several before..have the rod bolt covers to keep from scratching a possibly good bore ;)
I've got a mic...digital readout...I could take some really good pics, mic the journals...pics of the measures, send it all your way? The car ran when Steve yanked the engine, it just had a timing/missing issue we couldnt figure out. He had a build 331 he put in the car with some gt40's and a holley systemx and flipped the car for a goof profit. ANywaho, back to topic! lol
I'm keeping the H.O crank at the top of my list right now. I am thinking it's highly possible that it may be needed. I HOPE to know something this weekend at some point. The bad part of working 12 hour shifts. Pitch dark when I go to work, and just as dark when I leave work. Gotta get the garage finished so I can put the Sport in there, but, that can't happen til spring.
If you need a crank, I've got one. It's not going anywhere else. (except for in a bag, once I pull it from the block, as I need the stand for my Chevy engine to swap into my farm truck ASAP) lol
Ho's and sd's are the same crank. I could be wrong.
If I remember correctly Kitz you are right, I know the heads, cam, and intake were different. I think the short blocks were the same providing that they both had forged pistons. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yep, cranks and connecting rods were the same, pistons were different, and the timing chains were different. H.O engines had the double roller, SO engines did not.
Vinnie,
When you built the motor what brand of oil pump did you use? The Melling pumps are not what they used to be the last few years. I am buying blue printed Mellings from Charlie up at Folk's Automotive in Norman. They are not cheap but he puts them in a fixture and dials in the oil pressure as the pump has a set screw (for lack of a better term). I had the same thing happen to me about four years ago on the Coupe which caused a complete tear down and ended up getting the crank turned 10 on the mains and 20 on the rods. Went back together with the pump from Charlie and never had a problem. We spun the one that was in the car up and it was leaking between the bottom plate and the housing. If you pulled the body of the pump out of the oil bath it would suck air. We figured the front sump did not have enough oil in it to submerge the pump in some corners and that is what eventually got the bearings. One was knocking and four or five others were hurt. The cam bearings we okay but Charlie said something about that not being uncommon.
Anyhow, good luck with it and hopefully is a quick and cheap fix.
Darren
I'll take pics of stuff Saturday. Gotta work tomorrow (wish I didn't), and working at the hospital means 12 hour shifts, which means no time. I think it was a Melling pump I used. I may look for an NOS Ford pump. Ebay here I come. LOL.
Good luck
I appreciate that. I need all I can get.
I've been pretty good with the FRPP pump I used. I put it on a 120k motor. I left the long block untouched except for swapping the teeny Explorer cam out for an HO cam and swapping on that FRPP pump. Hot idle oil press of 42 psi with 120,000+ miles on the engine.
I'm pretty sure Melling makes the Ford pumps, so you should be good Vinnie.
Yup, Melling makes the Ford pumps. Hopefully their tolerance issues have been addressed and we would all hope that Ford would be pretty picky with slapping their name on it as well. What ever you do don't put a high volume unit in the motor unless you have a 7 qt pan as they have been reported to suck a 5 qt dry. Also, be sure to check your pickup tube clearance to the bottom of the pan. If memory serves me right you want about 1/4" or a little more but hopefully Tom and chime in here.
Darren
Found this on Canton's website so I would run with it (bottom of the page middle paragraph):
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/TechPages/Oil_Pan_Accessories_Tech.html
Darren
Don't believe everything you read, I have a HV pump in my 5.0 and have run it with four quarts(quart low) and never sucked the pan dry... That said, in most instances a HV pump isn't needed on a SBF...
Vinnie if it has coolant in the oil that's why the bearings are wiped out, takes very little to ruin them... Leak could be as simple as a intake gasket, no matter where it is any coolant in the oil is bad...
Just a thought Never use a HV or pressure pump on an engine!!! :hick::mullet:
Was not what only what I read but word of mouth from a machinist and two engine builders. Everyone has different experiences and I even built a 302 with a HV Melling pump and it worked flawlessly but is was a not a car I would take to the track. Old rule of thumb is 10 psig for every 1,000rpm.
Darren
I have serious doubts there is anyway to move more than maybe 2 quarts into the upper regions of of a SBF, before it's flowing back into the pan(most of the oil is flung from the crank so is immediately flowing back to the pan)... Maybe below freezing or some ridiculous RPMs but most street engines will have grenaded themselves by that time... Mine has approx 700 drag strip passes, idled 50psi hot and approx 80@6000... Yeah that's high but it came in the rebuild kit so is what's installed... New 331 will have a std pump...
Just a thought!!! The DIZZY gear in the SBF is marginal at best. The 2.3 guys like myself know this so well. Using a HV pump is not necessary if the bottom end is built correctly. Their is a big difference between HV and HI PRESSURE. Either way HV and or high pressure pumps are a scam. And their is absolutely no need for them. Your DIZZY and oil pump shaft will love you for using a stock PUMP!!! Just saying!!
Hey guys. Loooong work day yesterday. I went to my friend's house and picked up my hoist. Waiting for the temperature outside to come up a wee bit. It's 33 degrees. Once it warms up a little I'm going out to pull the engine.
As far as the oil pump goes, my plan was to stay with a stock replacement. I never used a High Volume pump before.
I'll be reporting any findings I come up with once the engine is on the stand and in the garage being torn down.
Not how I wanted to spend my weekend off, but, gotta do what I gotta do.
Good luck Vinnie!
Darren
Watching and waiting.... Wish you the best!
vinnie
when you do finally get he rod/mains out, look at them under a magnfying glass.
plasti guage at the 12, 6, 10 and 2 o'clock positions of the number 1 main and rod.
what i am getting at is that you may want to have the mains / rods broached. so you have brand new perfect round holes in your block and rods.
out of round block / rod caps are not that hard to find in a hi mileage block.
from there, a crank can be turned and matching bearings can be had so that all is round and clearanced correctly.
what they do is take off about .005 in' on the rod caps , then they put the caps on the rods then they machine in a brand new hole perfeclty round.
same process for the mains but there is a process by which all mains are puched back out in one pass so all the mains are linear. its not that hard to find an iron block that is twisted enough such that the orientation of main #1 could be out of alignment with main #4 enough that it effects actual gap.
in a perfect world these crank journals must be oriented perfectly to keep the oil clearance gaps geometrically machined.
good luck,, time you try gapless rings to??????
The engine is in the garage now....trans mission is on the floor, and all parts are on the benches. I have a butt load of zip lock bags with all of the fasteners labeled and waiting to go back where they need to be. I'll have details tomorrow about the rest. Tired and cranky, and want to just sit down and watch Velocity for a while.
this has gotta be depressing, all the work you have into this and 30k later is pin out on you.
not sure what to say but the sludge you found would have to force me into a motor tear down as well.
good luck man, keep us up to date.
Will do. I have to say, no sludge, just some gray oil in areas. I'm thinking bearing failure. Glad I don't spend anything from my paychecks on this car. Tomorrow I'll have answers and a solution one way or another. Going down in the morning to the local Autozone and grabbing some gaskets, loctite, and getting busy. I was looking for a clutch disc here in town, but they only have the full clutch kit. I don't need all that. One of my friends is coming over to help tomorrow, and he is the commercial manager at Autozone (sells to businesses), and I'm betting he can get a disc for me. I hope so anyway. he deals with the outside aftermarket stuff.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to getting this finished. Hopefully, if all goes the way I hope it does...(and really I don't see why it would...LOL),the engine and tranny assembly should be back in Wednesday. Giving me Tuesday to button everything up. Maybe tomorrow evening as well depending on when we start and finish.
Updates as they occur.
I can't say I'm depressed, but just weighted down by it. If that makes sense at all. I'm ready to get this done, and move on to other projects for the car, like getting ready for bodywork. This depleted my funds for that quickly. Oh well, it always seems to work itself out in time.
Vinnie,
Are you going to have someone look at the crank or did you come up with a known good one? Typically a bearing failure will get the main or rod bearing surface on the crank and it will have to be turned 10 or 20 to clean it up. With a manual car I would strongly suggest that you stay away from the Clevite 77 "P" series bearing as they are too soft. My engine builder and machinist both recommended the Clevite 77 "H" or "V" series bearings but both said the "H" would be fine for my application. These bearing are a little more than the "P" series but what's $50 more versus tearing a motor down? Anyhow, the one thing you have to make sure you do is check the thrust clearance on the center main bearing. There are several good reads on this such as:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1184679-assemblying-shortblock-2.html
Pay attention to Woody as he is an engine builder and knows his stuff. The reference to setting the thrust is on Post #58. From there you can research the hell out of it and see what I am talking about.
Well I am off to the garage to paint the block so I can get started on the 331 assembly.
Darren
Well, the engine (short block) is back together and torqued to specs. Bearings looked like copper. That was probably the grayish stuff in the oil. LOL. New moly rings and bearing installed. Tonight after work (if I'm not too tired), and tomorrow I'll button up the rest and do some cleaning, and HOPEFULLY on Wednesday, I'll stab the engine and tranny back into the car. We'll see what happens.
More updated news later. Gotta get to work.
Just a question??? Did you use another crank??? If not did you plot out the readings??? just curious??
if what you are saying here is true and im sure it is, then this is a sticky worthy chunk of important info,, i need to remember this ,, will store this in my diy link below darren, its a great tip.
what do you mean technically when you use the term "plot",, is is similar to what i was saying about checking various points so you can determine out of roundness to journals or block?
Not so fast JAY!!!!!
http://www.stealth316.com/misc/clevite-77-rod-main-bearings.pdf
Plotting dimensions around the crank for wear. This is dun to see if the crank is servicable. The roughness must also be checked. Normally when a bearing wears to the plating. Brass in color the crank should be undersized. Not all the time but this is from experience. Normally undersize cranks produce less oil pressure as the crank grinders normally grind to the lower side. Normally we use new cranks and control the rod bearing clearances with reconditioning the big end of the rod. As well as the mains.
To my knowledge the letter designation is not critical with a stick as posted above. That is what i read in to the previous post as to not use a specific letter designation of a Clevite 77 other than below. The thrush portion is the same as far as i know. The eccentricity and crush is different and full grove bearings are not for the street any way. Below is the comparison. The H is fine as i use them a lot. Just me could be wrong!!
http://www.mrxmotors.com/index_files/clevite_bearings.htm
Jay,
Again, there are all kinds of thoughts on how to and which way is the best way to put a motor together. I am just going off of what the machinist that did the work for my 331 told me to do. I figure this guy knows what he is talking about as he builds motors as well. We differ in opinion on assembly lubricants but again lots of things to choose from and its all what you are familiar with and what has worked for you.
Darren
Jay so i guess the engine builder cant just build an engine any more unless he knows the TRANNY APPLICATION????? Well that is strange as normally a stick car puts pressure on the rear thrush portion and an auto just the opposite. Then you have pull clutches like LT1 Motors SOOOOOO I am lost for words and cant figure this out!!!!! WOW!!!!!
Evidently I have not a shaging clue one what I am talking about.
Darren
, Vinnie has an LT1 in his Sport?
Tell ya something. My buddy Steve has put together a literal ton (possibly two tons) of 5.0 and 5.8's...mostly all with T5 trans. Never has had an issue with any thrust issues or WTF ever the argument seems to be. He's also worked as a wrench for Ford for several years, AND is ASE certified. He's also built and raced some solid 9 second 5.0 cars.
So everone can now put their dicks away and let Vinnie get back to his car, and leave the bullshiznit outta here. it all, anyway.
The type of thrust bearing vs longevity likely has merit but I don't have enough experience to contribute to the dick waving... I can say this, the thrust is loose in my 5.0(measures .105 using a dial indicator), but it's seen a few 150Hp shots of nitrous and quite a bit of 75Hp hits... It is fairly common for the blower guys to to have thrust issues...
This is not a DICK WAVING EVENT. It is something that i find in this industry that will go on for a million years after i am gone. People posting NONSENSE. With that i used the LT1 As an example of an engine that used the opposite side of the thrush portion of the bearing. ( I know vinny has a FORD D'OH!!!) Now just for discussion sake why does not CLEVITE post instructions with its bearings that they cant be used with specific tranny configurations. This is the BS that me off. As you so properly posted you and your buddy's have had absolutely no issues and i firmly believe that . As i have had ZERO ISSUES AS WELL!!! Thanks Thunder sport as usual we see Eye to Eye on this one!!
Just a question???? Does the engine RAP ON START UP THEN DISAPPEAR??? Normally a loose thrush bearing will do that. Have not heard it in years!!! And who is to say the crank might have gone away. Just a thought. At .105 it is time for a tear down Thanks. Just wondering if it makes NOISE.
:hick::mullet::burnout:
who's jay?
vinnie
how is it coming along and do you need anything? tool ect.?
did you consider yet to use gapless rings? , i mean i know your more than capable of filing down over sided ones but still.
Crazy busy around here with the car and life in general.
The engine is assembled and on the stand.New timing chain was in order as well. I also installed a new Summit harmonic balancer I had bought some time ago. HOPEFULLY, it'll be back in the Sport today. Not much time to get everything done that I need to do in two days off from work, and my work days are 12 hours, so no time then. I have everything I need except oil. I'll get that later. Right now, heavy parts need to be placed in the car and bolted down. I'll update in a bit.
Quick update......
The engine is in the car along with the transmission. Everything under the car is buttoned up. I still have to install the valve covers, accessories and brackets, upper intake, injectors and harnesses need to be hooked up to their appropriate places. I also have to install the radiator and fluids. I ran out of time today, but will be off again Monday and Tuesday, so, weather permitting, Monday it should be assembled and HOPEFULLY, she'll run again....as she should.
Glad to hear it's almost back on the road. Good Job Vinnie :)
Thanks. But, don't give up a "good job" yet until we see if she'll run as she should. These cars have made me into a pessimist.
OooooKayy I'll wait :) LOL
Keep your fingers crossed, praying to the car gods and hoping they see that I have paid my dues x10 with this car, and they will shine some good stuff down on the Sport.
I got my fingers crossed for ya Vinnie. You have been busting your butt to get the T-Bird back together. I have been in the same position a few times. Juggling work, college classes and home life and then something goes wrong with one of the vehicles and you spend a couple of long cold nights in the middle of the week to get it fixed. Good luck.
I don't think it's the cars.....checking the crank and doing any necessary machine work would be the right way to do things. Like anything else, you don't do the prep, the end result will be sub-par in one way or another. Other than the old alternator connector design, I haven't found anything on these that has caused any problems that weren't my own fault. Stick with stock rebuilds of everything, keep the paint conditioned, lenses protected from UV, the cars will go on forever, utilizing the Mustang aftermarket for wear items.
Good luck. I truly do hope the new bearings last as long as you hope they will. I believe that you said you eventually wanted an engine swap?
The 5.8 is going in hopefully this time next year. It'll be a long term build, aluminum heads, and lots of good stuff. I should know how the ol' 5.0 will be this coming Monday. Everything seems "so far so good".
It's not easy to detect tolerance issues...
Anyway, yeah, I figure I may as well go 6.7 liter if I were to upgrade to anything else. Why go from 350hp to a system that will get you maybe 30% more power (347) when you can crank it to nearly twice as much (550) and have headroom IF you ever got the budget/desire to do more. Boost seemed like a good idea at one point, but I'm not too fond of it now days on a street car. Besides, beyond 550-600hp, you have serious issues with drive-train strength, fuel delivery, intake and exhaust flow, and traction ;)
Hope all goes well Vennie
Thanks guys. I'll post news as it happens.
The reason I'd like the 5.8 one day is a little more power, but still very drivable and some similarity to fair gas mileage. By then, the Sport will probably be under a cover except on certain days for playing or going on cruises.A stroker or 460 would be cool, but for me, too much. I doubt we'll much track time at all.
For now, we'll see how the little 5.0 turns out.....next week. Working today and the next three, so, time ran out.
I think we've always had similar goals, you and I. I wouldn't want to bore out a $2k block to 460ci though, 408 is plenty, and if the parts are about priced the same, I'd stick with a 402 to use a stock 4.00" bore.
Built right, cruise fuel economy shouldn't be any different. Fuel economy will only change from the additional friction and rotating mass. It will still take the same amount of power to get a 625rpm idle and whatever rpms for cruise. More vacuum will cause more engine braking though...it's difficult to estimate what going from a 300ci to 400ci engine would do, all else being equal. Maybe a 1mpg drop all around?
The 5.8 will have a custom ground cam as well. For now,though. Gotta finish buttoning everything up under the hood, and push the start button.
Good luck with the start-up.
X2
Vinniebird,
I understand the pessimist issue. I had to do the intake manifold four times and hopefully today I will find out if I got it right. I got to the point that I didn't want to start it up any more. I also have to agree with Seek, it's not the cars fault it, it's mine (live and learn). I doubt that I need to be told which RTV to use any more. Then again I never claimed to be anything more than a weekend warrior. If my car runs I drive it till it dies, if it doesn't I buy a new engine. I know that this time I took my time and did the best I could. I also asked a lot of questions read a lot on the web. So, I guess what I'm saying is I'm good with whatever happens.
On that note, when I swapped out my tstat before, I figured I'd throw a gasket back on there with a good amount of RTV on both sides. It's good practice I believe to use SOME RTV on that thing, but apparently too much, even if you then give it days to cure, can also apparently cause issues. I was spitting a bit of coolant out the bottom of the housing every time the car would cool off and then fire back up (overnight). I finally got around to fixing it, cleaning the housing good, new gasket, and just a trace amount of RTV on both sides to make it tack. Torque to spec and no issues with leakage.
RTV really only works in thin layers, similar to thermal compound inside PCs and whatnot (for those here that work on pcs and apply compounds). Too much in some places and it becomes a problem rather than a help. Don't introduce weak links to an otherwise working design.
O.K.....UPDATE for today..........
The Sport is up and running. I just finished washing and waxing it all up (I told the Sport if she'd start and run as she should, I'd do that). I took the car down town and washed it so I could see through the windshield. Funny, you drive a car for two weeks, and it gets a little dirty. leave a car sitting for two weeks, and it gets a lot dirty.
Anyway, I haven't seen any leaks, bolts are tight, water is still in the radiator, trans is shifting good. I haven't done any spirited driving at all. Didn't even hit 40 miles per hour. I'll drive the Sport to work tomorrow and see how she runs. If all is well, I'll steadily give a little more gas and see what happens. After doing any major work, I need a few days to gain my confidence back. LOL. So far so good, and, she's looking good. Can't wait for a few parts and my hood, then, bodywork and a lot of changes.
Great news! Good job,Vinny.
That is great news man! How's the oil pressure?
Darren
Have a nice ride to work, were getting snow so i think I'm done for the year..
Glad to see you got her up and running again. It is funny how dirty a car gets just sitting in the garage.
I washed, clay barred, buffed, polished, and waxed mine two weeks ago. It's covered in a layer of dust that dulls the look of the paint. Garages without car covers are the worst for cleanliness.
I only have the stock oil pressure gauge. I need an after market one, but never installed one because I haven't found a gauge that matches the interior and keeps the interior looking as it should. The factory gauge has the needle above the halfway mark. Probably 75% up on the gauge. I'm going to start changing a lot of things this spring, and a few added gauges are on the list. The car seems to be running good, a little chatter. I need to get back in there and check the rockers.
Vinnie,
I went a bought a cheapo mechanical gauge that I connect where the oil pressure sending unit goes on the extension that is screwed into the block on the driver side. I only use this when priming and engine before starting it and during the first few minutes of the motor's life to ensure I have good pressure. From there I connect my electric Auto Meter back up and monitor it that way.
Darren
vinniebird,
We haven't heard from you in a while, I guess you and your car are doing well. I'm glad for you!! Enjoy!!
Yeah, I'm here. I have been working the past few days. 12 hour shifts keep me away. The Sport is doing alright. making a little noise. I'm going to check the rockers and exhaust. Haven't had time to stop and really look at it. The oil is beautiful. No smoke. Working 5-12 hour shifts this week, so, no time for much. I am off tomorrow, but we'll see how the weather holds out to decide whether or not I'm going to do anything.
Vinnie,
I was wondering, don't you have hydraulic lifters?
Yep. Roller lifters. I haven't had any time to really listen for the issue. I'm thinking it's in the lifters or rockers....maybe a small exhaust leak. I haven't checked much due to my work hours, and for the past 5 weeks, I haven't had a single day to just sit down and let everything go, so, I'm trying to do that this weekend. I may cave in and get out there for a while tomorrow. We;'ll see what happens.
The car is driving fine. I'd like to get a new distributor. Mine is 25 years old. i also plan on replacing the TPS and IAC with some NOS pieces as well.
Napa sells some really good rebuilt dizzys but keep your FoMoCo electronics and put them on there. I think RockAuto also sells them.
Darren
I have an extremely noisy (imo) valvetrain and after spending well over a thousand dollars trying to quiet it down, I just gave up. It was quieter when I used GT40 heads on a different (bad) block. My P's with the same rocker arms (Cobra/Crane units) are just noisy. I tried going from Comp Cams to Ford lifters, no difference. I tried setting a little more preload with longer pushrods and shimming, no difference. Different oil, nothing. I had a performance shop tear it down, noise didn't change. I just live with it. I assume the rocker arms are the culprit - that and using the stock Mustang aluminum valve covers. It isn't an exhaust leak in my case.
The performance shop thought it sounded normal. To me it sounds like improperly adjusted valve train. For all I know, the lifter bores have excessive wear/clearance on this block, causing weird geometry issues up top in the valvetrain. The noise is the main reason I dislike pushrod setups. Stock longblock with 200+k miles, it was quiet though.
Hopefully I'll figure it out (the noise), or at least enough to calm it down a little. I have factory Ford Cobra valve covers on the garage wall (two sets). I may try a set of those after I check the rockers. They are resin filled and double walled and made to tone down the rockers that Cobra engines had.
It has always had some chatter to it since day one. In the back of my head, I'm thinking maybe it isn't louder, but after driving the wife's car for over two weeks, maybe I just go used to uber quiet.....or maybe I'm right and it is. LOL.
make a video... lets hear it.... chances are it sounds like mine also...
I have no idea how to do that. I'll see if I can get Gayle to do that with her Ipad.
Vinnie....we need to get you into 2012..... or at least 2005...lol
2008. That would be good. It took me forever to just post pics. LOL.
:laughing:
Here's how my valve train sounds. FRPP 1.6 roller rockers and FRPP finned valve covers. Each rocker arm has 1/2 turn preload and a thick shim.
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/th_DSCN3164.jpg) (http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa33/thunderjet302/DSCN3164.mp4)
Thanks. Hard to tell. From the exhaust end, sounds great. Under the hood, or even with the hood closed, sounds like the lifters or rockers chattering. When I can get some time (I only have Wednesday off from today til next Tuesday), I plan on re-checking the rockers.I'm going to loosen them all and re-install. I also have noticed a slight amount of hesitation at times. I am going to buy a new distributor, IAC and TPS (needed or not) because mine are all 25 years old, and it's something I've wanted to do for a long time. Everything else at some point has been replaced. Found an NOS distributor for $85 shipped. Not sure if I should go with an NOS or a billet distributor.
I'll grab a video of mine later today..... mine is not that quiet...
How loud are your rockers? I can't hear mine unless I put the hood up and lean in over the valve covers. With the hood shut they are unnoticeable. I have FRPP roller rockers, which are made by Crane Cams. I had to use a thick shim on each rocker and I got 1/2 turn till they hit 20 ft/lbs. Oddly enough with the GT40Ps I didn't have to use shims to get 1/2 turn at 20 ft/lbs. I guess the pedestal height on the Edelbrock heads is a bit different.
the hood does cut the sound down a lot... but its pretty loud when it's open.
Like this...
[video=youtube;Xz961PNx09o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz961PNx09o[/video]
Daminc,
You've got a hell of a sweet car! I put the hood scoops on my car also so my engine could get a little air in the summer time. I've always thought aftermarket rockers were a little louder. They are working a bit harder than a stock set up.
Yep......Jerry's engine sounds like mine.
By the way, I love that intake. I miss it. Glad I'm making another one...but different.
That is a nice intake....
I had a feeling it probably sounded like mine
Yeah, come to think of it, why wouldn't it sound like yours? LOL.
I haven't forgotten to get Gayle to do a recording for me. Just haven't had the time. I will Wednesday.
Perhaps the reason both of your valve trains are loud is the Scorpion roller rockers? They might be noisier than the FRPP/Crane roller rockers I'm running. The rockers I have are quiet to the point that I have to lean into the engine bay to hear them. With the hood up I can barely hear the valve train standing next to the engine bay.
could be....
It doesn't bother me any. The noise coming from the back of the car, def covers up the noise coming from the front... :hick:
The only way the noise from the rear covers the noise from the front is if I'm standing behind the car. I'm hoping to check the rockers tomorrow. I only have tomorrow off until Monday. So, I may change my mind about that.
Vinnie do you have any shims on the rockers?
I am lost for words as to why so many built engines have valve train noise. Was the plunger depth checked??? Was the retainer to rocker clearance checked??? Was the guide to seal clearance checked. And this should have been dun with the engine on the stand!!! Their is a reason for valve train noise noise. Especially if the engine has a mild cam. Front engine noise is normally from the chain. But the chain is a no brainer. But should be checked. Good luck on your repairs
:hick::mullet::burnout:
RTV really only works in thin layers, similar to thermal compound inside PCs and whatnot (for those here that work on pcs and apply compounds). Too much in some places and it becomes a problem rather than a help. Don't introduce weak links to an otherwise working design.
Actually the stuff should be used with discretion!!! Once again we use it on the front and rear manifold rails. We never use it along with a gasket!!! And on situations where it is the primary sealant the parts normally have a relief machined in the part for sealing. We have taken many an engine apart and witnessed this stuff in water jackets oil systems ETC. Be very careful when using this stuff as it can break away and lodge in to bad places. Detroit Diesel will void any warranty claim if silicone is used on their products. Just saying.
No shims. I didn't have them before. I have a package of them. Going to get into next week (off for 4 days) and see if I do need them after all.
I used very little RTV. No leaks from anywhere under the hood..