So I started to test some things with swapping the tail lights over to LEDs and ran into an issue that makes it a showstopper until I can get over the obstacle. I had previously purchased a dozen 2W red LEDs to use in the tail lights, side illumination, and third brake light. Having a spare, DIRTY, set of tail lights to play with, I started doing some beam and heat testing. You will find that I started with the lenses dirty, tried to then clean them a bit, finding that I need to polish them up to get them clear again, and eventually ended with just the inner filter lens that I washed with only water. It also needs polishing, badly.
Anyway, so I went to test the 2W LED next to the 27W stock bulb being fed 14V to provide about the max output that I'd expect in the car with a healthy alternator. The LED was getting a little under 2W with a ~650mA driver. I'm not using 5mm LEDs due to the quantity needed, and having 200 per light will cause some to prematurely burn out due to taking current sooner than others every time they flash on. Using quality single emitters are best EXCEPT, for the problems noted in this thread.
Here is my initial result, the same as hos I tested it on the car. It looks pretty good, and even better in person. The camera makes both lights appear to be about the same level of red, but the stock bulb is MUCH more orange in person - so much that is looks terrible. Can you guess which side is which?
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/01-2W-27W_1.jpg)
The next few shows clearly demonstrate the problem I have. note that the color appears orange in these photos due to the intensity of the light, not that the light is actually orange. As usual, I took photos with a few different camera settings to help show the output, and to get a realistic idea on which bulb is actually brighter by reviewing the dimmest of photos.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/02-2W-27W_2.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/03-2W-27W_3.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/04-2W-27W_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/05-2W-27W_5.jpg)
In person the left bulb, the LED, appears much more intense than the incandescent bulb, possibly due to how vibrant red it is in person. The red is bright enough up close to cause red colors in the room to become orange-ish due to oversaturation. The problem here, as you can see, is that the LED is brightest in the middle of the tail light lens, and very dim around the outer edges. I believe the red LEDs have a viewing angle of only around 120 degrees, causing the directional light I am seeing, much more than 180 degree white LEDs. The incandescent bulb uses the reflector well to fairly evenly illuminate the entire red circle. I like the look of the full illumination MUCH better than small bright spots near the center. The LED also appears as if it may actually be putting out a bit less light than the incandescent bulb.
SO, off to test the two bulbs with a THIRD bulb, rated for 300 lumens. I cutout the rear of the third light and slapped the triple red emitter in place. This LED runs at 8v, 650mA with these drivers, or just above 5 Watts. The problem with using these LEDs are the price, and they need much larger heatsinks to be installed. The 2W single LED and 27W incandescent were swapped around so it is now arranged in the photos as 27W incan - 2W LED - 5W LED.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/06-27W-2W-5W_1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/07-27W-2W-5W_2.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/08-27W-2W-5W_3.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/09-27W-2W-5W_4.jpg)
So I'm thinking wow, the light is a bit more full, and a LOT more bright. The edges of the red circle are still darker than the incandescent bulb though...what is the best way to solve this? From the side it looks great, but straight back, it just reminds me of the faint center glow of older <1980 cars, a look that I just never liked.
Here I am trying to compare the two LEDs directly:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/10-2W-5W_1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/11-2W-5WN_1.jpg)
So yeah, the 5W one fills out much better, but it is still lacking. Now I didn't want to do this due to loss of light, but I cut out a square piece of polycarbonate and sanded a circle into the middle on both sides, hoping to remove some of the light from the center and move some of it to the outer edges. It's a terrible idea from an efficiency standpoint, but I had to try a frosted lens of some type. I applied it to the 5W LED:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/12-2W-5WF_1.jpg)
Okay, so I can see the outline of the circle a little better. Let's try that at a faster shutter speed to pick up the details of the improvement along the edges:
Without frosted lens:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/13-2W-5WN_2.jpg)
With frosted lens:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/14-2W-5WF_2.jpg)
You can see that the middle has lost a lot of intensity and it appears some of the "glossy look" is gone due to much more even lighting. So how does the 2W LED do with a frosted lens? I moved it to the middle/2W light and got this:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/15-2WF-5W_3.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/16-2WF-5W_3.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/17-2WF-5W_3.jpg)
Okay, so the 2W bulb is just too weak compared to an incandescent. 5W triple it is! Final shots with the frosted lens on the 5W LED:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/18-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/19-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/20-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/21-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/22-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/23-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/24-2W-5WF_4.jpg)
I hope to find a clear lens, something like a double concave, to help distribute the light rather than rely on a frosted layer that consumes light. I'm looking to pickup some 4" bowls of some kind to test as reflectors to help aim any stray light back to the edges of the red circles. With that, just about any double concave lens would work well to shift the light around. I don't know how well a single sides convex lens would help, of course defocused. Only having two of the 5W LEDs, I ordered more and they'll be here in a couple weeks, so I have some time to play with optics in the time being.
For tonight, pull my interior back apart and figure out why both my left and turn turn signals unlock my doors on every flash, assuming an alarm box problem........
More updates later
I remembered I have some car projector lenses that are 2.5" in diameter so I placed one over the 5W LED. It is getting there VERY well now. Mounting the lens this close to the LED, does anyone know if I should get LONGER or SHORTER focal length lenses? Also should U try double-concave, or stick with plano-convex? I completely forgot about Surplus Shed, a place that sells dirt cheap lenses. I'd like to pick some up around the 30-60mm diameter range to use for this project. I'm guessing a double-concave will cause some odd lighting, but if centered correctly, it could look really interesting.
Pictures below - notice how the hotspot is MUCH larger now that the light is being refocused. I figure a reflector bowl and proper focal length lens should get this to where it should be.
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-4.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-5.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/25-Convex-6.jpg)
Okay, I ordered some 4" recessed lighting units with aluminum reflector, which should actually work quite well if I can incorporate that into the heatsinking. I believe I want longer focal length lenses to get the light distributed evenly, with the reflector there to help bounce it back out the tail lights. If surplus shed's website ever starts working properly again, I'll get some lenses ordered up. 10 lenses of varying sizes for $30 isn't bad.
5w looks best and i think plain convex would be best , diameter is the question and depth of the arch on the convex also. this is a delta only trial and error will fix.
- without convex lense, try a circle cut out of red translucent tape (stuff you temp repair lenses with). place it dead center over the area where there is orange. this would reduce the orange and blend it with the red outline i see on teh 5w led layout.
-try C or D cell battery flashlight reflectors, cheapy ones that you prob have a couple lying around the house. that is a pretty steep angle but might be a tighter focal point, may end up being too orangish though.
keep up the good work, like to see the expected ampacity reduction overall with tail lamps only.
nice work... : )
It's the only way I can ever get anything done. Theory and the real world often do not come close to one another.
It isn't red in person, it just completely over-saturates the camera's sensor, and in person, your eyes if you're in the beam. The pictures above of the 5W LED looked like white filled circles on my IPS computer screen for a few minutes last night as my eyes got blasted by the red wavelength. A few minutes later, I could see red again...you gotta be careful when testing this stuff. It IS far more brighter than the stock bulbs, which are pretty bright at 14v. I'd have to measure what voltage I get in the car with the alternator running. Maybe I'll test that tonight.
I only have LED flashlights, but also reflectors of that size are going to make the center hotspot even worse, if they do anything at all. With a 120 degree viewing angel of the LEDs, not much will hit the smaller, shallow reflectors, and anything that does will be bounced toward the center, not the edges.
With my 3G alternator (like 4th NAPA replacement on the "lifetime warranty"), if I had the headlights, foglights, wipers, tail lights, stereo on, using the smallest alt pulley I could get, after the alternator would warm up, it'd drop to 12 point something volts at the battery since the alternator couldn't keep up. The tail lights would dim to like half their brightness, since they'd be at 11.5v or something, which is about half the output as an incandescent bulb at 14v. Letting off the brake pedal, the voltage would shoot back up to 13.5-14.5v, depending on how the alternator is feeling at that point in time. With the LEDs, first the load will be cut to 20% the original load since the 5W LEDs take much less power. Second, the LEDs are at full power at about 8V (3 in series), with the driver needing to see just under 9V to drive the LEDs at full power. This means that unless I have like 10V at the battery, and a huge voltage drop to get me to 9V at the tail lights, they won't dim. Plus, the voltage drop will be much smaller since the load on the wires will be greatly reduced. I look forward to it all, and being able to adjust the full and illumination levels of the lights by high frequency PWM.
I got the reflectors ordered, which have a 60mm opening, then some lenses ranging from 62mm to 80mm to try out. Two bi-convex, two bi-concave, one plano-convex, and one plano-concave. We'll see how it all works when everything arrives, I assume early next week. Until then, I will be cleaning up this set of tail lights and getting the wiring done. I'm also trying to think of ways to change how the tail lights look, possibly even removing the need to have evenly distributed light. I was thinking about a ring 2/3 from the center to separate the intense center beam, and then provide the softer outer glow of an outer ring, with a shadow ring separating the two. I don't know how it'd look, but it's something I'll need to mockup.
As for my door locking issue - apparently I found a wire that was hot in ignition, but it would be pulled to ground every time the flashers would flash (no matter the side). I moved this to a different connector's pin and all should be well now. The alarm thought I was rapidly turning the ignition on and off, with it unlocking the doors when it detects the ignition-on to ignition-off switch. That was dumb, but it's fixed and the interior is back in. I now have a huge hole where the radio and EQ/cubby go as I need to finish sanding the 8" screen bezel to get that thing mounted up for the carpc. I prefer to do ANYTHING but continue sanding that. I used too much body filler...
Well this was again incorrect. Whenever I'd switch the highbeam, the wire would go to ground, then back to 12v. Again I moved the wire, this time to a permanent home it seems! A live wire in the middle connector on the left side of the column. I have no idea which pin it is, but the wire on my car's harness in green. So far so good. The cluster looks excellent in the vehicle.
Reflectors and lenses came in. First, I'd like to ask if anyone knows of some reflectors that are about 4 1/4" at the BOWL at the very top? The 4" ones I got are a little small (actual 3 3/8"!!!), and I don't like the lost area of the red lens.
Anyway, I figured I'd test the reflector with some lenses and see what works well, or what I like the look of. I only used the lenses where they'd sit in the reflector - I did not do any focal length testing of each lens. The two smallest lenses weren't working all that well, so they are not in these photos. A couple lenses I flipped over to try different sides.
Here is what I have to work with:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lensall.jpg)
Straight on to the photos:
Reflector only, no lens:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/reflectoronly_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/reflectoronly_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/reflectoronly_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/reflectoronly_4.jpg)
Lens 1:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens1_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens1_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens1_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens1_4.jpg)
Lens 2:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens2_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens2_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens2_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens2_4.jpg)
Lens 3:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens3_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens3_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens3_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens3_4.jpg)
Lens 4:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens4_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens4_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens4_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens4_4.jpg)
Lens 5:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens5_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens5_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens5_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens5_4.jpg)
Lens 6:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens6_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens6_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens6_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens6_4.jpg)
Lens 7:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens7_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens7_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens7_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens7_4.jpg)
Here are direct comparisons for all lenses:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens_all_low.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens_all_med.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/lens_all_high.jpg)
I think a properly-sized reflector may outdo these lenses imo just because I'm looking for fill, but the effects of some of them are pretty interesting.
I picked up some stainless steel bowls to try, from China. I'll see what local places have, but I may have to wait until the slow boat drops them off. They are 11-12cm diameter bowls that should work much better for these lights.
I like Lens 3
I was very surprised when the new LEDs arrived in 3 days from purchase. Packaging was a bit over the top from Luxeonstar, but they always over-package the leds. I still need to find some 4.25" reflectors/bowls, if anyone has any ideas about where to get them...
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/LEDs_Oct26_1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/LEDs_Oct26_2.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/LEDs_Oct26_3.jpg)
I have a lot of spare parts, so many that I'm going to have to move some things out of my LED box into a separate one. My other "electronics" parts box with through-hole mount IC parts is also full, more so than this one :eek:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/LEDs_Oct26_4.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/LEDs_Oct26_5.jpg)
Received some stainless steel bowls from New York. Ordered Thursday night, shipped Friday, received Monday on the west coast!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140863814412?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ss_reflectors_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ss_reflectors_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ss_reflectors_3.jpg)
The depth is a bit more than I'd like, but that just means I will cut out more of the tail light housing and using some ABS sludge to permanently attach the reflectors, which will be attached to the filter lens. I will be cutting a hole in one and checking out the mounting options after I get another project on its way and re-sprayed with more primer.
Here is the reflector cut. I think I like the light beam of these reflectors, no lens. The light output is a bit lower in these pictures though, and I'm not sure why. I figure the issue is that the LED isn't actually IN the bowl (will have to use a dremel to enlarge the rear hole and make it fit a larger heatsink), and there is a lot more surface area to hit on the filter lens. These reflectors are much bigger than the last ones, filling out the entire red circles (which are actually oval fyi).
Anyway, to the pictures!
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/44reflectoronly_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/44reflectoronly_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/44reflectoronly_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/44reflectoronly_4.jpg)
Yeah, I just don't know what I want to do. I picked up some 4" round acrylic pieces from TAP Plastics today and tried sanding only the middle, and sanding the entire thing on both sides. The results were noticeable, but I'm not sure I like it. I wish I could find some type of lens that was a cone to help distribute the light better.
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frosted_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frosted_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frosted_3.jpg)
I'm thinking I will stick with reflector only and later try another tail light using up to 48 8mm wide angle LEDs wired in 4S12P running at 50mA each. 32 may be plenty, but it'd require testing.
The comparison shots below show that the evenness should be MUCH better, but the eyes see more of a hotspot still. I think this is the last comparison I can do before cutting up the tail light reflectors.
Frosted middle filter with reflector on left, bare LED on right:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frostedref-none_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frostedref-none_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/frostedref-none_3.jpg)
Reflector only on left, bare LED on right:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ref-none_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ref-none_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ref-none_3.jpg)
Incandescent on left, bare LED in stock housing on right:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/incan-none_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/incan-none_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/incan-none_3.jpg)
Aaaaand, if I use some plastic that would diffuse the light well, I lose way too much output.
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/semi-trans_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/semi-trans_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/semi-trans_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/semi-trans_4.jpg)
Have you tried also the LED array instead of the only one powerful LED?
HA~!
you to also noticed that.
the more i look at lighting, the more science and purpose i see.
i wonder what happens to your light when you take one of your bowls and bend it a little then light it up, that outter ring should dispurse or disappear i would think.
the headlamps are just as scientific when you look at every purpose of every angle.
HA~!
you to also noticed that.
the more i look at lighting, the more science and purpose i see.
i wonder what happens to your light when you take one of your bowls and bend it a little then light it up, that outter ring should dispurse or disappear i would think.
the headlamps are just as scientific when you look at every purpose of every angle.
I will try that separately later, but the problem with multiple emitters in parallel is that every time power is turned on, some have a lower Vf and will take on more current than they're rated for for a split second. Over time, this can make them burn out. Not to mention, when using hundreds, some will just be poor quality and fail. I have some 100mA 8mm wide angle LEDs that I will try at a later time after I pick up another set of tail lights, or just chop up the ones on my car already. I won't destroy ones in great shape though, which I have one NOS and two boxed up that are in excellent condition.
Moving the LED further back also evens out the light.
I think in person, I like the reflector without frosted lens. I will be picking up some proper bits to make cutting these stainless steel bowls easier, then comparing side by side. The nice thing is that these reflectors cut perfectly between the color lens and stock reflector. It is close on the outer light, but it still fits in there.
I SHOULD have a finished product this weekend. I think you all will be pleased with the pictures when on the car. I just need to look into what the trunk light's fuse and wiring is rated for. I'd like to use that hot wire to power the micro-controller and tail lights. It's 4A for the tails and 3A for the trunk lighting...I don't think there's any other always-hot wire already in the back? I'd really prefer to not need to change everything to use the tail light's wires...
yellow wire on the contact side of your fuel pump relay is hot at all times, could branch off there for a small distribution block for any power needs, plenty of overhead on that circuit to parallel off of / fuse up.
I just can't decide. Got a second bowl cut and then my grinding stone shattered. The frosted middle lens really does make the red lens look this dull in person, like it's really dirty or something. I'd say it has more of the BMW tail light look which is a wall of color, rather than most tail lights you see on the road today where it's much more transparent and you can see where larger quantities of light hit the reflector and bounce at you.
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ref_reffrost_1.jpg)
You can really tell from this picture (dim) how much more it illuminates though:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ref_reffrost_2.jpg)
I agree with you on that
That's not the correct setup. You should use serioparallel setup, where each serie should have it's own resistor. This works fine and if one led die, only few neighbour LEDs go out without any influences to the rest of the circuit.
Yes, there would be 4-5 emitters in series (depending on the Vf), but I wouldn't use resistors as the LED driver is already limiting the current to the entire circuit. They put out 640-650mA and are >90% efficient when the LEDs are driven at 10V+ on the 12V input. How do you propose I make the same LEDs dim for running lamps with using resistors only? Having some LEDs stay off when the brake/turn isn't turned on just reintroduces uneven lighting and it doesn't change the actual intensity of the LEDs that are turned on.
I am confused, being an Electronic Technician, If the emitters were placed in series, one or more failures would take them all out. I believe that they could be operated in parallel with an isolation resistor between the source voltage and the anode. As for the even diffusion of light, why bother? Any diffusion is a reduction in light, which means that to compensate, you must either increase the number of emitters or increase their source voltage, thus potentially increasing heat and certainly increasing current draw... but to what purpose? To attempt to disguise the fact that you're using LED's instead of incandescent bulbs? Why not just own the fact that you are using LED's? The light panels would be easier to construct, be used for multiple vehicles and let the original "oval masks" on the tail lights continue to do the job of masking the light and thus the perceived shape.
I wouldn't want ANY failures. I know that a single failure would kill a circuit of 4 or 5 in series, and this I don't want. It is MUCH more likely to have one of the cheap 5/8/10mm LEDs fail than using three Cree or Luxeon emitters. Anyway, if the LEDs were being underdriven at nearly half their rated continuous load, having one set of emitters in series would only make the other sets of emitters in series take on a little more current. It would take half of the groups of series LEDs to fail before 50mA becomes 100mA+ per LED.
The light distribution I want only for the larger surface area containing light. With 6 lights (brake) being operated at 650mA each, that is some 1600-1700 lumens of red light being generated before losses within the tail light housing. I will have to get a measurement with a lux meter, but it appears that the LEDs WITH diffuser lens is still over twice as bright as the stock incandecent bulbs. I have PLENTY of room to work with output wise. This doesn't even include the light coming out of the third brake light, where I will be using probably eight Cree emitters, making each one be driven at 700mA. This provides another 500 lumens of red light before any losses.
The stock tail light bulbs are ~250 lumens of warm white light with a ton of loss through the red filter lenses (4 of them, 6 when modified for 2 more lamps) and 125 lumens of warm white light with the same losses (2 bulbs). 1200 lumens of emitted white light or 2200 lumens of red emitted light light offers more total output, much better transmittance, instant turn on times, longer "bulb life", and lower power consumption. Stock bulbs, using 6 rear brake lights, are consuming 180W, versus 42W of my LED setup using six triple-emitter stars and 10 total single-emitter stars. That's a savings of 10A at 14V with the brake lights on (I'm looking at you 3G alternator with insufficient output at 625rpms engine with lights, wipers, stereo, brake lights on). Running lamps, this is 55W versus less than 2 Watts (I'll have to test, but I may need 3W-5W instead), saving 4A.
I don't care who knows that I'm using LEDs, I'd just prefer to keep a bit of the 80's vehicle look, but not take it back to the 60's in the way that a bulb without any real light control looks. I agree with you about NOT wanting to use dozens of emitters due to the complexity and much more likelyhood of failures. I try to follow "KISS"...
I will be using the diffuser lenses as it helps make out the horizontal strips within the tail lights. Looking at more tail lights this morning, from any distance, I don't think the odd look of the tail lights when using the frosted lens will be noticeable. I plan on cutting the rest of the reflectors tonight, frosting the remaining lenses, and using some abs sludge and silicone to mount the LED heatsinks to the reflectors, frosted lens to the red lenses, and reflectors to the frosted lens. Curing times will make this take a few days to get done, but the weekend should provide time for enough layers, and in letting the primer cure enough on my other project for my carpc. That stuff hasn't been doing so well with the cool temperatures of the last few weeks.
Very easily. I'd use only the simple PWM module, or divide the area to smaller segments, which each has different type of LEDs and do different jobs. For example the outer circle should be the park lamps and the rest should be the brake / turn signal.
Yeah, I see that on some cars (also similar to having the angel eyes/halo lights around round headlights for running lamps). I'm not fond of it personally.
Anyway, this project will be coming to an end, and I will be moving onto single-piece headlight assembly with LED powered headlamps. Design ideas for filling out our huge front light bars would be welcome ;)
After all, it's your job, your tail lamps and your decision. I'm thinking of modifying 85/86 tail lamps to the LEDs. It's one big rectangle, you know.
I'd like to comply european law and still have good looking tail lamps. In fact, even the modifying is forbidden, but nobody cares about tail lamps on american cars. They are happy, when it has amber turn signals and a fog lamp :).
PS: I can't help you with the headlamps, I don't have such skills in optics.
Yeah, ANY modification to be vehicle can be found illegal or unlawful here. I know our stock tail lights are quite dim compared to a lot of cars (likely due to the huge voltage drop) so getting them to a better level, using less power, and not having them get dim when the engine shuts off is a nice update. Everything else, I really care most about just having three round lights with the black louvers visible. Help bring out the small details that are often overlooked on these cars.
I can't get that filter lense polished up well enough though. Those louvers really make it difficult to get a good buffing. It's possible the lens I'm working with just has issues though, as I look at it close up, the plastic has orange/brown swirls in spots beep within it (not surface).
um,, LED headlamps eh?
yeah, im interested,, anything to complement the headlamp relay mod woud be awsome.
i still need to mod my headlamps like i did my sons.
well, if I destroy a heatsink by drilling and tapping holes, I can easily see how this idea would go if all the emitters were on a flat aluminum piece, shining through a projector. I've got the parts, but it will take some destruction and 30 minutes of wiring it all up. Lucky for my, my second half of my silicone wire just arrived today, giving me pleeeenty of 20awg wire that won't have the insulation pull back when soldered. 200 feet of the stuff.
Edit: actually, I'll just mount them to some tiny led heatsinks, tape them to a larger heatsink for the flat surface, then go from there.
Well, I went to get the other tail light from the garage so I can start mounting everything...and I ran into a problem.
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/lenscompare_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/lenscompare_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/lenscompare_3.jpg)
Ignore the residual buffing compound that needs to be removed carefully. You can see that the lens on the right is basically LIKE NEW. Even the backup light plastic is perfectly clear with no yellowing. I can't be mounting these tail lights and having one light look perfect, and the other looking like Jerry rigged (nor jury) it up. It would just look off having such a cast difference. I can't even get the lens on the left buffed out smooth after spending hours on it. I assume this one was a new unit at some point, making me want to put it back together to keep as a spare part like my other one still in wrap.
Anyone have one of these lenses from a tail light that may have been cracked on the outside?
i dont, have the interior housing and the one long narrow red lense thats removeable,, sorry
try the 3000 grit foam pad they sell at auto zone, water sand and then add polyurethan to the clear one only.
I can try getting shots without the flash it it may show the differences better, but the right one you can see the red circles in the same ambient lighting that you cannot see them at all on the left lens. I'm going to look at a junkyard with an '88 tomorrow to see what they have for tail light parts, and anything else.
It's perfect (taped in place)! :p
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/TripleLit_1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/TripleLit_2.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/TripleLit_3.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/RoomLit.jpg)
For the most part, bugs are worked out. I may replace the LED drivers with some from TaskLED due to having a full-bright flicker for a split second as the existing driver powers up, providing full power before it detects the DIM pin and pulls the brightness down (running lights switched on). It's a minor issue that would only appear when turning the headlights on/off, but it's probably worth going with better drivers just for the consistency and reliability.
Now I just have to do what I dread - chop up the reflector portions of these lights. The reflector portions are in beautiful, like new condition, other than around the license plate nut clips where it's cracked. I'd REALLY like to find some more beat up pieces to cut up...
I also need to pick up another 40W LED. I'd really like to use them for the backup lamps. This modification can be made later though as the boost driver(s) are $30+ each.
humm,,
leme check the garage in the morning, for some reason i belive i kept the housing which has reflectors from mason's delivery day defective tail lamp.
i wonder if you couldnt mold to a reflector you have as a negative and then heat gun those mirrors that auto zone sell, they are plastic with mirror on one side. there has to be something at a craft store that would solve this reflector issue.
I think I'll have some spare tail light assemblies, with cracked lenses, on the way that I can use for this. I'm also going to just use my existing LEDs in the backup lights, four per side. This will let me use my cheap drivers, instead of using two $25 LEDs and two $40 LED boost drivers. I could have this thing done this week, but not wanting to ruin perfect stock housings is making it take longer than otherwise. I'm also out of space in here until the tail lights are finished, so the headlight project is on hold.
I need to get it done so I can get them installed and run the car through DEQ. I know I only have a day's work of work left on them, but I need some spare/junk lights! Perhaps I'll even go look this weekend for something in yards so I can get parts sooner. The lights on the car now have mediocre lenses and I could try to use them, but I used WAY too much silicone on the things and an hour of prying wouldn't break one lens free.
I know this is a touch off topic but you mentioned a voltage drop in the rear tail lights. Is this a common problem with the Fox Birds? I really like the mod you are doing but don't think it would be worth it with my 83's rear lamps. However, if there is a voltage drop on mine a relay or two could take care of that as my battery is trunk mounted.
Darren
There's always voltage drops...I don't know what is it at the tail lights. I'll see about testing that out tonight. I assume there's at least 1V from alternator to tail lights, and likely more, when the tail lights are on. Having the 6 lights in the rear (converted from 4), going through all the factory harness, it can't be good. If it's really bad (12v at bulb, 14.4 at alternator), we could get twice the output (will appear 20-30% brighter) but you WILL sacrifice bulb life.
With the stock 27W bulbs, if they are running at 14.4v, each one should be around 700 lumens. At 12v, they will be around 400 lumens. At 10V, 225 or so lumens. This of course is with white light - most of which is filtered out with the red lenses.
As a quick test, if you are getting 10v with the car off and tail lights on, and 12v with the engine running, you could expect that same relative brightness improvement by taking one step further and running better wiring and relays (or mosfets as in my case). I'm guessing you will find that it isn't worth the work since you have fewer lights and likely a similar base circuit resistance.
Thanks for all of the information, sounds like I have some time to spend with my DVM in the trunk of the car.
Darren
So I got you some numbers, and they are worse than I thought. I used the stock harness/unmolested for the measurements to make sure the sequencers wouldn't modify numbers any. The tail lights' currently used harness is tapped in at the spare tire.
Battery Power: 12.08V at battery
4 tail bulbs, 2 third brake bulbs: 10.07V
6 tail bulbs, 2 third brake bulbs: 9.05V
Alternator Power: 15.10V at battery (Yes, my alternator needs to be replaced again...I have a quality one to use instead of the lifetime warranty NAPAs that fail)
4 tail bulbs, 2 third brake bulbs: 12.6V
It looks like the stock harness is dropping ~1V per pair of bulbs (one per side). Multimeters were tested and measure the same. I had one on battery, one on brake light socket, and a tool box holding the brake on.
I haven't measured with one set of bulbs (54W), but I'm assuming it will still drop between 1/2-3/4 a Volt. I expect up to 50W to be used for the LEDs and drivers. The stock wiring is just terrible.
You know, even without the new tail lights being done, I'm going to take the car out this weekend. Just hearing the car run in the garage last night makes me miss it. It wasn't insured until a couple weeks ago since I had the interior torn apart for awhile. Get it nice a hot, get some new gas in it, and prepare for emissions testing the following week. I know it'll pass with the current gt40p heads and Oregon only requiring an idle test. Cruise at 25mph was always where it failed, according to records over its whole life, with the stock motor.
What was interesting is the amount of glow/lack of it on the garage door when the brakes were on. With the engine running the door was open, but it would still look pathetic compared to the LEDs I imagine. Perhaps I do need to take another look at reducing the output of them. I was going to compare them side by side to another newer car for overall intensity and go from there. For all I know, the 1W may have done the wall test the same as the stock lights, at 12v.
i will try not to forget to get voltage readings this weekend as well.'
keeping an eye on this post and so is my son.
hopefully over the course of this there is a tried ,tested and passing solution that would offer more light and reduce voltage requirements.
Okay guys, I am finishing this project up. To get rid of the running lamp power on and off flicker, I've ordered replacement LED drivers from TaskLED which do not flicker at full bright for some milliseconds if the dim pin is held low as the driver powers up.
I'd like to take some intensity readings of the brake lights and adjust their output, but I am trying to make sense of the US laws. Does anyone have a definition of "Lighted sections"? I am looking in the following document:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/pdf/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.pdf
At 650mA into the tail lights and third brake light, I am right at 410 candela (lux at 1m), measuring the llights separately. This will of course drop more after they are placed behind outer lenses. I assume 3 lighted sections means one left, one right, and one third brake location. Any input?
Here is where I'm at compared to the stock lights, with the car running. I unplugged the right side to help limit voltage drop since I had the leds tied into the same harness. I used a breaker bar between the brake and seat to activate them.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/CompareOnCar1.jpg)
I repainted the fins/louvers but can see that I need more paint on a few spots. The finishing work will be the time consuming part, but I have some movies ready to start on it after they cure for a few more days. I hope to also receive the leds I plan on using for the backup lamps this week.
Stress testing, the third brake light gets up to 65C after running at full (near 10W for the LEDs) for 3 hours in the house, in the housing. I don't remember the numbers for the tail lights, and I don't think I mentioned it here, but I believe they're around 70C after the same time period. Being that they won't run for that long in brake mode in the car, I assume it'll never approach that, even in summer. The heatsinks are open to the trunk so they are enclosed only by the rear trunk panel/cover.
Another shot:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/CompareOnCar2.jpg)
Too bad cameras are so terrible at picking up light intensity.
The pattern of the third brake light is similar to the stock one, but the intensity of each LED changes as you move side to side in front of the light. The stock did this also, but with two light sources. I used 8.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ThirdBrakePattern.jpg)
Nice pattern:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/ThirdBrake.jpg)
This is actually quite interesting. I am having trouble understanding, however, and maybe I just missed it, but why didn't you instead of going to all this trouble, just use 180* LED bulbs?
Any LEDs worth using (have enough output) need a lot of heatsinking. Any "drop in bulb" can't have enough light - else it would overheat. These LEDs, which are VERY efficient in terms of efficacy, get their large-ish heatsinks up to 150F, which would be closer to 200F in the summer. Similar output without heatsinking will approach chip-frying temperatures in 10-ish seconds.
It's no different than us comparing a 100-LED flashlight to my 1000 lumen single high power LED flashlight that I carry around. There is more output available, or I can run the LED at lower output and get 2-3 times the power efficiency as the dimmer LEDs with the same "lumens". Plus a point source has predictable optical properties.
Buy me a replacement drop-in led bulb assembly and I'll show you a side by side comparison by camera. I won't waste money on the things, but here is an example of what a drop-in bulb would be: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Auto-2-Car-Bulb-1157-BAY15D-18-LED-SMD-Red-Side-Stop-Light-371-/280977728788?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item416b93e514&vxp=mtr (I have harnesses for both that socket, and the wedge type).
Wow, that's a lot of effort! It will be interesting to see how it works out. I simply went with a set of red SMT tower 60's from autolumination.
The comparison pictures pretty much show the difference, and drop in replacement bulbs are generally dimmer than the stock bulbs, but it may require a camera to detect the difference with what is available today. Car was running and I had the passenger side disconnected so the bulbs were actually getting more voltage than they normally do, and were brighter. In comparison, they have nothing on the LEDs. This project was mostly to drop my power usage, get the instant on of LEDs, limit the load which would make my alternator struggle at night when the electric fan would come on, increase the overall brightness, and make the lights more red rather than the orange that everything appears with incandescent bulbs. Our tail lights are pretty dim in comparison to most cars out from the last 20 years.
My backup light LEDs should be here any day now. Generating 7000 lumens in reverse will be nice, since our housings consume probably 3/4 of the generated light. Once they are here and I modify my taskled drivers to put out 650mA (no change going to 740mA as they came stock), everything will be finished up and installed in the car. Pictures and video will never do the things justice though.
Okay, this is now coming together. I have one tail light just about done. I was testing the backup lamps with my existing heatsink, as I'd like to see if I can get by with using a smaller one.
Inner lenses are attached to the outer lenses. I have chopped up the reflector portion on one light to test fit everything. Everything is good but I need to get the backup lighting done. Here is an example of what one side will output using four LEDs at 7W each. It should be roughly 2,000 lumens for one backup light.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/BackupLampTest1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/BackupLampTest2.jpg)
Okay, finishing this up now. Got some capable heatsinking and cut up the reflectors of both tails. I am working on centering the LED's and then I will use ABS and fiberglass to seal everything up.
One LED in backup light (using 4 per side):
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/backuplighttest_1LED.jpg)
Bright light Bright light!!!
Getting it done. Took forever to tap all the holes to mount the LED's. I still need to add the side/corner light and finish closing the unit up, but here is where I'm at tonight with one light.
It's looking good:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Backup_1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/All_Rear.jpg)
Here is what the room looks like with the backup light on:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Output_Backup.jpg)
Here is what the room looks like with the brake lights on:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Output_Brake.jpg)
Together:
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Output_All.jpg)
:evilgrin:
Jebus I thought the LED tail lamps on our Mustang were bright. Nice work.
The intensity isn't really that much brighter than other LED brake lights on the road - it's just that I have large circles with a lot of surface area with similar intensity. Overall, it appears brighter because of the much greater luminous flux.
Now the backup lamps - that's another story altogether. I do have a lot of surface area, but it is also similar to looking directly at a LED. It will get noticed that the car's backing up, that's for sure. 4000 lumens from the white LED's in the back is more than most headlights, but it is also a full flood.
Sad thing is, I will probably do this all over at one point in the future. I'd like to rebuild the entire reflector/mounting portion out of aluminum, using little "plates" that I can mount from the back to swap out parts. That would come after quad LED projection for headlights though - I have the same idea for up front. I want a full single piece assembly to be able to accept "modules" that I can bolt in from the back. This would allow revisions to the lights with much less effort, support upgrades, built-in heatsinking, and better control of the design without casting parts. Pointless? Sure, but it'd be a unique project that would support my desire to tweak things.
If anyone has some recommendations for price effective aluminum plates, I'd love to hear them. I will be using parts up to 6" tall, maybe 12" LONG, IN 1/4, 1/8, and possibly 1/16" thicknesses. At this point, I don't care too much about the alloy. It's not terribly expensive in the first place, but the everyday rate is around $15/sqft in 1/8".
Is this something you will make for people in the future? ;)
way cool
ive always liked these tails and this just made them that much better
Got the other side done. I am now at the mercy of waiting for things to cure. I was going to use a smaller LED in the edge/corner lamps, but I may just use a drop in LED bulb for those. The microcontroller is setup for 4 channels per side though, so I could just use a 1W LED on each side and dim it to match.Either way, this part is easy - small tpuppies, stuff LED in hold, use ABS/acetone mix to glue into place, and go. Assuming everything goes well, I should be closing the units up tomorrow, with a couple layers of fiberglass over the next few days to seal the rear up, and a layer of paint to protect it.
I also need to clean up the outer lenses. They have a ton of scratches, but it'll all sand and buff out. I plan on spraying a couple layers of automotive grade clearcoat over them to help block UV.
It isn't exactly cost or time effective. Maybe $300 in materials, plus the stock light housings, and a ton of time. It must also use a circuit that can dim the LED's for running lamps.
I could think of many more useless ways to spend this money though.
Now if I managed to make new tails out of aluminum plate, which could use the same outer and filter lenses, and just CNC up a few, that would make much more sense. They'd be cores where anyone could do whatever they'd like on the insides. Something like that would probably cost $100-200. I'd also like to try vacuum forming new outer lenses in a huge vacuum chamber. That project isn't something I plan on touching for a couple years though. Headlights first!
The only suggestion I have is to find a local fab shop and buy their s cuts. Might be hard to get 6x12x.125 from excess cuts though!
Do you have any more pictures of the heat sinking?
I was thinking of using cheap 5052 alloy, being close to $8/sqft in 1/8". It should work for something such as this.
I'll have to see what pictures I have for the heatsinking. I will get a last picture of everything before putting it together, and all the heatsinks will be visible/open to the rear for ventilation. It's basically a 4x3x0.5" amplifier plate for each side the backup lights (28W), and a 2" diameter circular, 1" tall heatsink for each brake light (5W). They all get around +40C over ambient at max output for hours, sitting flat on the desk. 40C above ambient at the LED star is the highest I ever go. If it's higher, I use a bigger heatsink. Being able to CNC parts soon should make these things easier once I get some speed in prototyping with it.
A recent example is my LED lighting and heatsinking in another vehicle. 20W in the dome/map lights and 7W in the hatch/trunk. 40C above ambient burning away for hours:
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Insight/Interior/Lighting/DomeWIP1.jpg)
(http://www.masejoer.com/Images/Insight/Interior/Lighting/HatchWIP1.jpg)
These heatsinks are relatively cheap at a surplus store up the street. I have a box of all the most useful heatsink shapes and densities.
Should be fine. The Googles say that 6061-T6 (http://"http://matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=1b8c06d0ca7c456694c7777d9e10be5b&ckck=1")has ~20% greater thermal conductivity than 5052-H32 (http://"http://matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=96d768abc51e4157a1b8f95856c49028"), so you'll run a bit hotter with 5051. Probably not a real issue unless you're already at the edge of reliability. No other material differences should matter for this useage.
I can't visualize it, but would like to see the pics when you get it together!
Here are the backup LED's mounted with thermal grease, threadlocked in place, and with silicone to manage the wires. There is also a rear shot of how the tails currently sit, waiting for RTV to cure for a seal between everything. Tomorrow I will start working on sealing up cuts from the rotary tool, and adding the interior/exterior barrier back in where they were cut. You can see where it was cut in the area of the backup light and innermost brake light.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Backup_LEDs.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Tail_Rear_Sealed.jpg)
Finishing this up! Just need a few more layers of ABS on the back, wiring, and sequencer testing. Looks pretty good. below are comparison pictures, with the car running to provide full voltage to the stock bulbs. The LED's reach max brightness at just over 10V. It's obvious which side is which.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Tails_On_Car1.jpg)
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Tails_On_Car2.jpg)
looks awesome man
I should add that the fluting on the lenses make the backup light LED's appear crooked. The LED's are mounted quite symmetrical. If you shift angles, they shift around. At most viewing angles, the bottom LED's appear closer together. It might be a good idea in a future project to spread the bottom two LED's out a little in an attempt to give a more symmetrical look through the lens.
The third brake light has a very strong fluting effect. As you move side to side, different areas of the third brake light get bright. The fluting combines the light from the 6 LED's into different columns of light. This was seen in a wall shot earlier in the thread.
The car's electrical system is VERY dirty, so there's some work to do with the sequencers. The tails look great on the car though.
Headlights?
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Distant.jpg)
Nope, just the backup lamps.
(http://masejoer.com/Images/Thunderbird/Exterior/TailLights/LEDs/Close.jpg)
Tails are all in running lamp mode. Brake is much brighter. As usual, cameras are bad at picking these things up so you can only compare bulbs next to one another.
Those tails look amazing!!! I've read through your interior light, and this thread. I have very little knowledge of L.E.D.s but I badly want to convert my '84s bulbs to L.E.D.s. My only real experimentation is with the tower LED bulbs you can buy from superbrightleds.com or the strips you can cut and solder together on ebay.
It really is pretty simple. A LED will take as much power as you give it (and then burn up). You buy LED "drivers" that limit the amperage (in my case, 0.65 Amps per driver). Wire up + to + and - to -. Apply power and be amazed. Heatsinking is required at these amperage levels...
There's no reason to build your own LED drivers. Just buy something and use it. The ones I use need like 1 Volt more input than the LED requires. My red LED's need 8.5V for max light and my white backup LED's need 10V for max light. Provide the ("buck" - they lower the voltage, rather than "boost") drivers 9.5V and 11V, and the LED's get the voltage requires, with the driver limiting the amperage (current).
I say just pick up a LED and driver from some place online and just play with them. There really isn't much do it. Single-LED flashlights also give you the same thing. You could take apart something cheap like http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006E0QAFY/ to observe how it works.
I was thinking of using some collumated 5600k LEDs for mine, but just for the running lights. For brake/turn, I was thinking of using 3 of these (http://"http://www.theretrofitsource.com/product_info.php?products_id=14906") per side, and sequencing the turn indicators.
That would be pretty bad ass
I know this is an old thread, but how'd you open the tail light housing?
The lens separates from the rear just by pulling - there are metal tabs with teeth on the rear part that grab into the plastic of the outer lens. There was something like butyl rope that was put between the two pieces to seal them, but it isn't an adhesive - only the clips hold the lens together from the factory. It's possible someone could have used silicone to re-seal the tail lights at some point, and that could make them almost impossible to open, depending on how it was applied.
Amazing work!
Is this some you are willing to build on demand?
Would be excellent on my car!
Too involved/time is money. One would need a large 3d-printer to make production numbers at home, and even then they wouldn't be cheap. I want to make some cnc'd aluminum shell pieces as my next experiment, but only after I get my single piece, dual LED projection, headlamp project completed (much easier than the complex tail light assemblies). We just moved and hope to build a large detached garage by next summer, and projects can resume. Machinery takes space!
Oh alright, I understand! :)
You've been working on it for a very long time!
And using my experiences for modifications on other vehicles. Just picked up a new truck, new head, tail, and cargo light assemblies, and preparing for some custom LED work + some fiberglass fabrication for the audio system. Everything is arriving today through next Tuesday so I have a bunch of other vehicle mods to get done!
Then better get to work!
I'm waiting until I move back to Sweden from Korea so that I can start working on my car again.
But I also need to find a storage place I where I can work on it...