I have been in the process of taking the shift link bracket loose, the fan shroud loose, the starter off, the coolant lines off, took the pick-up tube out along with the oil pump, loosen the transmission cross member, and jacked the engine up. There is not enough room to back the oil pan out through the rear. The manual says nothing about the position of the crank. Would putting # 4 and #8 at the top make any difference? The book say something about taking 4 bolts out of the torque converter cover and remove it. Is that the cover on the front of the transmission bell housing? According to the book, that is the rear cover plate. Thanks!
The K frame has to be removed for this repair!!! That is the easiest way to do it other than removing the engine!!!
:burnout:
Tom,
Are you referring to the cross member? Does it unbolt? I don't see it even mentioned in my manual.
Just lift the bloody engine up. It would save SO much time.
I can see dropping the K-member, but you'd need alignment marks, a hoist and an engine support beam. This would work for guys like you and I, Tom, but most of these guys don't have the resources we have.
:iagree: :iagree: That is if you have a cherry picker, and if you don't, they're not much to rent.
I've done it on a 70' Mustang, I've done it on a old truck at a salvage yard, but not on one of these. I would assume the book is expecting you to pull it to the front, where all the room is. Pulling the dust shield is just for wiggle room. If you don't get it soon, you'll have to bite the big one and just pull the engine. You are almost there anyhow. Pulling the K-member would be a way of getting it done....... that's a whole new can of worms! I would pull the engine before pulling the K-member. One more thing you can think about... If you pull the engine, you can get all that old oil and grease and totally cleaned away.
Ok, tomorrow I will crawl under my car (again) and try to se of the rest of the gasket off, being I already have half of it off already. Then I'm going to try to just put the gasket on with the pan on the car. If I can pull this little trick off then I'll just start putting every thing back together. Be like Michelanglelo doing the chapel ceiling, but of course not quite the same results....
Just pull the effing engine, and repair it the proper way.
To word it another way...Ive got19 years' experience working on my own stuff as well as for a living....and i wouldn't even consider doing it the way you are.
In the time it takes to fight with unbolting the pan, and wrestling it out, you could have the engine out with a hoist, and then it would be so much easier.
There's a reason we keep telling you to do it that way....because it's EASY and FAST. But we don't know shiznit. Some of us have been working on these cars for 20 years or more...
I have to disagree a little especially if you want to make it a day job.
Idealy you want to drop the steering rack in order to get the pan out but that could open up another can of worms so dont, the line fittings and banjo fittings may break or sheer off.
-unhook battery
-drain oil and let it do so while you are doing the below items.
-install drain plug(s) on oil pan
-add a gallon of mineral spirits or the like to the oil dip stick tube, let it sit then drain again.
-use a tshirt over your oil pan to filter the mineral spirts and pour it in the pan again, then drain again.
-drain coolant
-unhook starter and remove as required
-insure all wiring /hoses and such that are in the way are clear (heater core hoses ect)
-remove motor mount pin bolts.
-remove motor mount top nuts
-jack up motorwith wood block under crank pully if you can
-remove motor mount assemblies
-insert wood block shims in place of motor mounts, you want as high as possible.
-raise motor up as far as it will go with attention to upper intake conflicts to fire wall and anything else you notice
-remove oil pan bolts and let the pan drop down as far as it will go.
~~this is where you have to trust your motor is safe but........
-get a pipe that spans the width fo the top of your engine bay such that it rests on the area where your fender bolts are
-position pipe directly over your crank shaft
-with a heavy duty wratchet strap, run strap around the back of the crank pully but forward of harmonic ballancer
-bring strap around your pipe and take up all the slack. (this coupled with your wood block shims will make it safe enough)
-now jack up the car as high as you need , engage ebrake and chocks to rear wheels, leave car in park.
Now the pan will be low enough to do your work, not ideal but the only way unless you pull the steering rack...again not a good idea if its not been off recently.
Yes you are reaching into the sides of the pan to get at your pump and such, if its too risky sounding then take it to a shop and let them do it. I personally dont see the issue as long as your set up is safe and workable.
Have a creeper, hopefully you have a floor to work on and not gravel.
your not going to get the pan out by following the shop manual,,unless you pull the rack and even at that, its very tricky but can be done. I did it once while i had the steering rack out and was actually amazed how easy it came out. It rubbed stuff on the way out so i knew it would going in, thats why i installed my gaskets after i put the pan back in under the engine.
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technically your steering rack "could" come out if you like, its just two bolts and two tie rod ends and your power steering return line , assuming there is enough slack in your hi pres line.
This way you dont have to fiddle with the fittings on the rack itself. You just have to loosen the steering slip joint but be sure to paint mark it before taking it loose.
If you think you can get the rack out then our home free to get the pan out. ,, ,, however,,, any seasoned ford shop guy will tell you , the pan does not come out until you reach in and undo the pump and let it drop in the pan. having said this.... see my point i made earlier? as long as your set up is safe, just ignore the rack.
I took my oilpan out awhile back in my 88 5.0 Cougar while the engine was still in the car, and hooked up to the transmission. I spaced some chunks of 1x4 between the mounts and the Kmember. The biggest part was that I had to remove the oil pump pickup tube and let it rest in the pan as I slid the pan out (remember a new gasket or good time to install a new Melling pump and pickup all together!) I already had the radiator and the headers removed because I was getting the heads redone and camshaft changed. I believe I still even had the starter installed on the motor. I remember taking the transmission bolts out of the transmission crossmember. I did not remove the crossmember from the car.
Removing the K frame is how the FORD guys did it in the day!!! Some of those early models had some sludge issues and removal of the pan was necessary. Removing the K frame was how they did it !!! I have dun many in those days!!!
We lift the engines on the trucks, but on old fox cars that come in, we hang the motor, unbolt the mounts, the steering shaft and the master cylinder, unsnap the rear line from the body, then lower the K-member about 6 inches. That way, we don't have to disconnect any suspension or futz with the springs. You wouldn't believe how well you beat book time this way. You've got to be careful to get it back perfectly in place, or you'll have to align it. I'm leaving things out, but my purpose isn't to provide directions, just to point out the difference in procedure.
C'mon guys...we're talking about a guy who might not have air tools, 2 post lift, and all the big sockets needed to remove a k member. Like myself and others have said...you can rent an engine hoist anywhere, and hes all but got everything unbolted to pull it anyway. His mounts probably need replaced, might as well make it it easier to do those, as well..lol
Good morning,
I really didn't mean to upset anybody! I have till Friday to get my car over to emissions, but I don't think I'm going to make it. I'm sure I'm also being stubborn, (nothing new). Jcassity, thanks for your time! About the only thing I haven't done is with the strap and mineral spirits (yet). I am definitely going to start looking for a cherry picker, I knew after working on this car the first day that it's the way to go. Like I have said, I wouldn't be as far as I am without all your help. Nope, not going to touch the k member over my head, maybe some day (if necessary) but not now. I can tell you, pans not coming out, but I should be able to finish the job like it is. Oh, I have motor mounts and starter on order. Thanks!!
86Cougar, I don't believe anyone is upset and certainly not with you. What you are seeing is experience in doing things the "right", or most efficient way vs. several ways to accomplish the task at hand with limited tools. Something like this is always going to be easier, faster and safer with the engine out of the car, but most of us also recognize that the best way isn't always possible with limited resources.
I understand. Actually, with what I have to work with, I am doing alright. The pan has been flushed and wiped out. Surfaces sed and cleaned. Pump and pick-up tube cleaned and reassembled on car. When I was sing the surfaces, I broke a sliver off my razor blade, but I found it and disposed of it. The four gasket retainers were not the right bolt size, so I am using the bolts an working around them. Gotta get back at it. Thanks!
I agree pull the engine that is what i said in the beginning!!! But pulling the K frame is not brain surgery and it really is no big deal.
Where there is a will...there is a way! Well, it took me all day, but the oil pan is IN! My T shirt it toast, half of the engine grease is now in my hair, even the mosquitoes wouldn't come near me (probably because I'm stinky). My starters all cleaned up, so tomorrow I will put it back in until my new one shows up. I will probably dream about a large oil pan chasing me around tonight (lol). It's time for a shower. Thanks, again!!
I had my oilpan out without a hoist or removing the Kmember. Just a floor jack, chunks of wood and jackstands.
You guys are probably right, it would have been easier to pull the engine but I sold my hoist. It actually wasn't too time consuming the way I did it, though.
I don't know if there is much difference in the years, but I had my engine jacked up to where the hood would stay open about 4-5 inches. I realize I did it the hard way, but that just makes working on my car in the future easier for me. I used to work on Jet engines in the Air Force and I was an aircraft mechanic when I got out for a while. So this wasn't as bad as that. My problem is I've never worked on this car before and I am always learning something new (a good thing). Cool thing is the hard part is over! I am impressed with the Fel-pro gasket, very nice. Thank you all for your patience with me, and I got to tell you, you guys really do know your sh_t!! Thanks!!!!