Is it really worth the effort to replace the stock bushings for Polyurethane? Thanks!
Yes!!! As a matter of fact MOOG is supplying POLI as stock replacements for certain applications that were never installed on the car from the factory.
Tom,
I am down to my control arms and I am getting ready to take them off. I will clean them, paint them and rebuild them (POLY, springs, shocks and new brakes). The only issue I have had with polyurethane in the past was after a while they dry up and squeak. Then of course, once that happens, they will start to break down. I wish mine had a grease fitting to service them. I never stopped to think that the expensive cars probably would come off the show room floor with Polyurethane on them. I already have a set for front and back. In fact, I think I have about everything I need for the chassis. I bought some extra grease from Summit Racing so I can put it on thick. Any information or advice on application will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
I always thought poly everywhere made your ride harder, ?
The polyurethane bushings provide the least deflection and thus better stability and control, but if the resulting ride is to harsh to suit personal taste, then a decent compromise is delrin bushings, which are much firmer than stock rubber, deflect a bit more than polyurethane and don't tend to suffer from the tendency to squeaking often encountered with polyurethane. CHE uses a hybrid of both delrin and polyeuothane (http://"http://www.cheperformance.com/Tech/CHE_Poly_Delrin_Bushing.html") to achieve the best performance.
Yep, I would say they do. My car will probably ride like a truck. I went to stiffer springs, same (new) kYB GR2 struts and shocks, Hellig anti-sway bar on back, Addco anti-sway bar on front and of course the polyurethane. I also went to a quick ratio rack and pinion.
Well, I have a handful of grease fittings and my drill and my tap and die set. So, I think I better set myself up for the inevitable. Sure beat having to tear everything down.
I installed poly in the front end of my T-Bird and CHE adjustable control arms with Delrin in the rear. I wouldn't say it rode like a truck, because a truck at least provides a modicum of comfort. My T-Bird rode like a tank. I could run over a squirrel and tell you what it had for supper. Personally I think it ruined the car, because T-Birds are supposed to be comfortable. Mine rode so hard I hated driving it.
That being said, if you want balls-out handling and don't care about comfort go with poly. That T-Bird handled like it was glued to the road. I could throw it into turns at crazy speeds and it just plain stuck. Thanks to the TC sway bars it stayed absolutely level (the 2" drop and Bullitt springs probably helped too). It handled like no T-Bird had any right to do... unfortunately it also rode like no T-Bird had the right to do...
I saw the CHE control arms when I was thinking about changing mine, but I didn't notice they used Delrin. In fact I have never heard about it till now. I really have to agree with you that it is all personal likes. Ever since I saw a blue-green Cougar "Hot Wheel" when I was a kid, I always figured my car should be a hot rod (that's just me). Back in 1986 I bought a new IROC camero, and it seemed to always be in the shop, so, I traded it for a Mazda MX-6. I had installed an Alpine sterio, Ebach lowering springs, KYB shocks, Suspension Techniques anti sway bar on front, Michelin (HR?) tires and a Momo steering wheel. I had to take it to a welder twice because I ripped out the shocks on both sides of the front. He put large washers and padded them up. The second time he asked me if I would be interested in a roll bar... I sure had fun in that little car. Truth is it never really felt like I was driving that fast, in fact I think I only got one or two small tickets the whole time I had it. Anyway, I always felt safer in that car, that's why I build up my cars the way I do.
I've got the poly bushings up front, 97 Stang GT springs, CHE arms rear, also with poly and an aluminum upper axle bushing to prevent binding. It doesn't exactly ride like a truck, but you can sure tell the size of the pothole by the kick in the ass it gives you. I've also got the TC swaybars front and rear, and as Carm mentioned, on the dry curves, mine handles like it was a roller coaster. Obviously my shiznitty old dry rotted Michelins are the weak link, then again, I drove it yesterday and promptly had the county cops hunting for me. Guess it's time to grow up and act cool. Of course, my wife then went and accumulated 3!!! tickets in the Mountaineer. I'm shiznit broke, but the rebel in me says we are going to fight 2 of these tickets. 6mph over the limit on a gravel road...really? Is the county that desperate for money? The lawyer is on tap, and I had a friend call me today to tell me the deputy that ticketed the wife has been seen drinking while in uniform. This shiznit does NOT happen...especially when he's sitting just down the road behind some brush past my driveway like a sneaking little cXXXsuXXer. Pardon my french....I do NOT drive through my local little town like a d-bag.....why shiznit where ya sleep, you know...
Sorry OP for the hijack. Carry on, I'm over it now :)
I'm with Thunder Chicken on this. I won't put poly on a car for the street. It ruins the ride in my opinion. Replacing with fresh good quality rubber is my preference for a STREET car. I don't like too firm a ride. Shoot, even too low profile a tire bugs me! It is a personal thing to be sure. You won't know until you've tried it.
Rubber is good for the street and I would run that if that is where your going to drive the car. I had Poly in my old 85 TC and it sucked with regards to harshness. I was running a stock suspension with new shocks and new Moog springs. I yanked the Poly bushings out and installed Moog rubber units and all the problem went away. Did I loose a little on spirited driving? Yes but it was worth it with a daily driver.
Darren
Poly in the back = AWESOME.
Poly in the front = punishing.
User discretion advised.
Great feedback! EricCoolcats.... More food for thought and options....cool! I got this car when it was already about 16-18 years old, so I'm going to have to go the trial and error route. I haven't heard anything about poly on the freeway at 75-85 mph. I will only be driving my car under 8 miles every second or third day, except when I go see my relatives (about a two hour drive) once every month or two. Aerocoupe, that sounds just like my set up. I had low profile tires on my Cougar and I liked them, only problem was the car stood too tall (didn't quite look right). Now if I had 2" drop spindles all around, I think I would be happy. There again, I'm only speculating.
No such thing as a drop spindle for these cars.
Want to go low, it's all springs and shocks and caster/camber plates. Go low enough, you'll also need offset rack bushings, depending on what spindles you do have, with regards to stock Fox, '94-95 Stang, or '96 and up Stang. There's a lot of reading to do before you ever turn a wrench on all of THAT lol. It's not what I'd call brain surgery, but you'll definitely want to read some threads here before you go slapping in some Mach 1 springs and expecting great results with otherwise stock suspension parts ;)
No, I'm good where I'm at. I'm not looking for spindles. Just went though my front control arms, the bushings, sleeves, and shells were all one piece. At 26 years old I'm sure that doesn't surprise anyone. I will have to forget putting any grease fitting's on the bushings, the shells are way too thin and I'm not going to bother welding any nuts to them (not that ambitious). Strange thing is the control arm doesn't look like it's ever had a coat of paint on it. Well, it does now.
I've got 03-04 Cobra front control arms, Monroe Sensatrac struts, and Monroe strut mount bushings in the front of my T-bird. I'm not sure what the bushings in the the Cobra arms are made of but they ride very nice. The ride is firm but also controlled. The car feels solid over bumps. The rear bushings on my car need to be changed though. At almost 25 years old they are pretty much shot. When the car hits a big bump at highway speeds (70 mph) the front is nice and solid but the rear kinda "jiggles" a bit side to side, at least it feels like it does.
I would suggest subframe connectors in addition to the suspension refresh. They make the car much stiffer and improve handling.
My Sport did that.....till I put the CHE's on, they had poly bushings on both ends of the lowers, and the frame ends of the uppers, the upper axle ends have these aluminum bushings that I pt in the rear...it's pretty non-twitchy now, even more since I finally got the matching springs in the back. A panhard bar would take all the side to side slop out though. Wouldn't be too hard to make one, I'd think. Mounting it where it wouldn't interfere with the swaybar and quads would be more of a challenge.
Im gonna try poly bushings for the front sway bar, end links and trans mount. Stock rubber on the rest of the car.
Well, I just about have the left side front end together. Had to quit cause it's starting to rain. I never used a spring compressor before (not like rocket science), but I soon learned that I had better put an arch in the spring. I have a pretty good assortment of tools, but I'm darn sure not running an automotive shop. So, I have to get creative some times (that can be scary). I think tomorrow I'll finish taking the oil pan off (remove transmission lines and jack the engine up) just to do something different. Bet I get the right side front end done a lot quicker, now that I know a little more about what I'm doing. I really like the fact that from now on when I'm driving down the road, I'm gonna know my car pretty darn good. It helps when you know what to look for in times of trouble. Had that before with other cars, but not this one.
I run poly on the front with poly in the rear lowers and the rear end of the uppers with stock rubber in the front of the rear uppers along with Sensatracs all round. I'd call it a "sport setup" but not harsh. My wife has no complaints and she drives a Benz....LOL.
Here is a set of bushings i installed in my TYPHOON. They made a worl of difference in handling and also the ability to hold an alignment. Old fashioned bushings are a thing of the past.
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/008-9.jpg)
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/007-13.jpg)
Along with a new set of MOOG BALL JOINT problem solver ones properly installed and torqued to specks. Most people dont install ball joints correctly
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/006-16.jpg)
Tom,
Just curious, whey do you say most people don't install their ball joints correctly? Thanks!
Well people dont use the correct tools and they dont follow instructions. Some joints have to be indexed and all joints have to be torqued. I have never seen anyone torque a ball joint. Here is another example of what i am talking about. These replacement joints use bolts. But the bolts dont fit correctly after drilling out the rivets. A close look at the arm tells the story pretty clearly
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-103.jpg)
I grind a flat on the washer . And by the way these joints dont come with washers. As you can see without the flat on the washer the bolt does not sit properly in the arm. I am a stickler for things like this. Check it out
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/002-64.jpg)
Now the setup is correct and square in the arm without putting the bolt under stress from being pen 15ed by the arms design. Just me and my lust for things like this.
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/005-18.jpg)
You will notice the nut flat is perpendicular with the on the A arm. Once again just my little quirks. But when competing in a show it makes a difference when i am judging a car. I look at things like this. It is also the correct way to install a joint the right way!!
I put new ball joints in my 4x4 Chevy truck this past spring...they had washers...
It WAS a bitch getting those rivets out though. A lot of cussing, sweating, and some hot metal down my shirt. What did those foolish engineers at GM think when they decided to put a rivet on a part that doesn't last forever?
They have this notion that by the time the Ball Joints wear out the car will be history. Best way i found to remove rivets is drill them. Start small and move up the line. Also an air chissel works real good also.
The moog joints normally come with self locking nuts. Personally i nave never seen a MOOG joint with split washers. Just saying!!
I have used both air hammers and grinders for rivet removal. Which is easier depends greatly on the vehicle, what kind of equipment you have access to and experience level. Most of the time, in my experience, the air hammer is faster, though sometimes difficult to use in cramped quarters. Because of this fact, I tend to use the grinder instead more often than not.
Just my 2 cents.... I like to use a Dremal with a flexible shaft and Dremal's #456-01 cutoff wheel when I am in tight spaces. These cutoff wheels don't fragment like the old ones do.
Today, I started to disassemble the rear end of my car. The front bushings were rock hard and glued to the sleeves. I had to cut them out. I only got as far as to take one rear end lower control arms off, but I did noticed that both wiggled from side to side about 4 inches. The bushings didn't even touch the side of the control arm and when I wiggled them and I could only hear the metal insert clanking.
Toast...
Well put.