im currently in the market for a 3 core all aluminum radiator does anyone know one that will pretty much drop right in my car i got a 88 thunderbird sport with a carbed 351 in it.
I believe the mustang ones should be the same or any 80's early 90's car with the 5.0 would be fine.
This is the one I bought last year. No issues at all, very sturdy and seems to be well made.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/79-FORD-MUSTANG-LX-GT-GLX-SVT-COBRA-MT-MANUAL-THREE-ROW-CORE-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-/110929389358?fits=Model:Mustang&hash=item19d3e8272e&item=110929389358&pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr
Vinnie,
Do you know what country is was manufactured in? I am looking but I have had bad luck with the imports.
Darren
I have no idea. I can say, that it's still solid as a rock after a year (yes, only a year). The welds are clean and smooth, and it was well made. A lot better than I expected, especially for the price. It dropped right in. I am using a Taurus electric fan. I used the zip clips up top, and fabricated aluminum brackets on the bottom to support the weight of the fan. The next time I have to take it out, I may polish it.
351fox, gonna hihack a little bit but it directly relates to your question and hopefully will help with your decision. My current setup in the Coupe and the Bird is the tried and true F-150 3 core heavy duty from Autozone with a Mark VIII fan and DCC controller. With the 306 in the Coupe it does okay but it will build some heat in traffic. I had the same radiator but with a stock clutch type fan and stock shroud on the Bird when it had a 306 and it was okay for the most part. With the new 351W that is now in the Bird I am getting a bit concerned it will not be able to handle the cooling requirements with the bigger motor. I am also in the middle of building a 331 stroker (sold the short block out of the Coupe last week) and don't have a lot of faith in the current cooling system with additional cubes and power. I am thinking of going with a Griffin Dominator radiator in both cars as a bunch of the Mustang guys run this radiator and say its drop in other than the top radiator clamps but I have an aftermarket holder on both cars which I have seen a lot of these guys use on this radiator. The part number is 8-00165 and the specs are as follows:
Year: 1993
Make: FORD
Model: Mustang
Part: 8-00165
Overall Size: 29.50W X 18.63H X 3.00T
Transmission: MANUAL
Tubes: 2 Row 1.25"
Features: Filler / Drain
LS: NO
Inlet OutletTR-1.25 / BL=1.50
You can see it here on their website (first one): http://www.griffinrad.com/Dominator_Series.cfm
I measured the radiator I currently have in the Coupe and by all figures this Dominator will drop right in as described. However, my biggest concern is how thick it is (2.75" versus the existing 1.75" brass unit) with regards to the clearance between the Mark VIII fan and the water pump pulley. I have been cruising the Mustang websites and there are a few guys there that say it will work so I think I will just bite the bullet and order it unless anyone here sees an issue. I don't mind fabbing up a few parts to make it work as the heat here in Houston is a killer and the Bird is in SW Oklahoma so Vinny can tell you its been over 110 deg on a daily bases several times this summer.
Darren
hey thanks alot right now im in fort hood tx so i know all about the heat here. ill just give you a list of what i got and what my problems. ive got a 351 windsor in a 1988 ford thunderbird running off a aod tranny. the tranny has its on cooler. so im not worried about that but the radiator i have is a 2 core all alummium one. and im running a 18 1/4 inch flex fan and a half fan shroud that they sell at autozone. the car in the daytime runs around 210 if i dont get stuck in traffic and at night time about 200 but if i get stguck in traffic at all it will climb to 230 plus. i have a 180 thermostat in it and a brand new water pump i found a 3 core radiator that champion makes and it runs about 219 bucks im thinking about buying that they say it will drop right into my car does anybody think this will solve my problem. mainly my overall goal is to find a raidator that will drop right into my car that will run less then 300 bucks
I have heard good things about Champion and bad things about Champion. I just chalk it up to them being imports and the quality control being what it is over seas. Most guys just deal with it and take a $200 radiator and make it work. I am going to go with the Griffin unit for the simple fact they are made in the USA and they have a long standing reputation of being quality pieces and I have seen less complaints about them.
Darren
Just bought the Griffin Dominator 8-00165 off of Advance Auto Parts website for $237 with free shipping but I had to pay taxes which brought it up to $257.62. That was as cheap as I could find one and it will be here in 3 days. I am putting the heavy 3 core brass radiator that has been in the Bird for years into the Coupe. The 3-core in the Bird measures 2" across the core and the one that I currently use in the Coupe is 1-5/8". I guess you can chalk that up to the old one being a Go-Dan brand that cost me $100 back in the day from Autozone and the newer one being from the net and overseas. The Bird never came close to overheating with the 306, A/C, and NO2 so I think it will handle the 331, A/C, and no NO2 just fine. The Griffin core measures 2-3/4" and will be going into the Bird to help out with the 0.030" over 351W, A/C, and NO2. Hopefully I will get a chance to install the Griffin over the Labor Day holiday and take some pictures with the Mark VIII fan. Kinda sucks as I had the old radiator and Mark VIII already installed but it would be even worse to have an overheating motor.
I will post up on the overall quality of the Griffin out of the box in the next few days with some pics.
Darren
I've got a 2 row, 2.25" thick aluminum radiator from Northern radiator (made in USA) in my T-bird. It replaced the stock 25 year old copper brass radiator that was having trouble keeping the engine cool on the highway in 97*+ heat with the A/C on. It cost me about $200. The car runs about 190* with a 180 thermostat, 9 blade HO fan, and a Police Interceptor fan clutch.
Just some thoughts!!! You know a brass radiator cools better than aluminum and an oval 2 row cools better than a 3 row unit. More rows does not equate to better cooling. Fin count is much more critical that the amount of rows. Normally a HD radiator has a higher fin count . More rows means nothing unless the fin count is known and most 3 rows are not what they are cracked up to be. Actually a staggered set of tubes is the best. Thanks
Wow...interesting thread.
That Mark VIII fan should be over kill for any fox setup. That fan move a $hit ton of air(IIRC 5000cfm on high)... Now with that being said, I have had great luck with explorer rad with the NPR IC I used to run with the 2.3T with 180 stat. Below 70 outside the car would hardly get to 165 when driving down the road. My small 1990 taurus 3.0 fan I had did great and was really easy to wire. Now in the 2.3 world not to many of us have grills. The 86XR7 does, 87-88TC are bottom breathers. The rest of the fox tbird/cougars besides the 87-88 TC should always have excellent air flow through the radiator. Hmmm
Now for my 351 turbo swap(getting closer to being complete). I ordered a big 3 core aluminum off ebay. With my newer taurus cooling fan (all the mustang dorks say its money) should work great. I always wanted to try the big Mark VIII fan, just didn't want to deal with the power requirements.
Travis
Just a silly question!! What is the FIN COUNT???
Surface area (fin count), material and number of cores all play a role in heat dissipation. Is isn't just the number of fins of course, it also has to do with fin thickness the number of cores, which contribute to the total amount of time that a given measure of liquid is exposed to radiant surface area, which potentially extracts more heat, e.g. the longer the exposure is, the more potential heat "loss"... a good thing.
i just bought the radiator tell me what you think here is the thread http://www.championradiators.net/servlet/Detail?no=4
I bet it's made in China ;).
im sure it is but it seems legit for what i need it to it to do.
Tom and Crazy 88 are both correct. The radiator and engine are just air/liquid heat exchangers and surface area is king with heat exchangers. To echo what Tom said the smaller three core that was using in my Coupe had a total core thickness of 1-5/8" where as the three core that is in the Bird has a total core thickness of 2". The number of fins per inch from what I can recall is about the same so what gets the extra cooling capacity of the older GoDan unit is the additional thickness of the core which increases fin area. The aluminum units will dissipate heat very well as well but again Tom has his math right and the denser brass/copper units will move more heat if the copper fins are bonded to the brass tubes correctly. Read here for more on that:
http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/aluminum_vs_copper.php
A lot of guys here in Texas run no glycol and utalize Red Line water wetter and some run just enough glycol both of which will lube the pump and keep the rusting down on the coolant system. I am going to give Evans a try and see how it works as there is no water and the boiling point on the Evans fluid is around 375 Deg F in a non-pressurized system. I will let you do your own research on which is better for your application. If we just look at a pure deionized and distilled water system (better the water is the better it will cool as it will not scale) they key is to not boil the water (212 Deg F at sea level) so you don't get air pockets in the system as that acts as an insulator for the coolant to pull heat from the block and heads. By utilizing a 16 lb radiator cap a pressurized system is created and the boiling point of the water is raised about 48 degrees to 260 Deg F. This is due to thermodynamics, in short the partial pressure of the liquid and all of that can be explained to you by searching it on the Wiki here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure
Hopefully that opens some eyes and minds. Another argument is retention time of the fluid in the heat exchanger which directly deals with the time it takes a given mass of the heat media through a heat exchanger or mass flow rate. Its a balance so you have to look at how much heat you can put into the media in the engine at a given flow rate and how much heat you can remove out of the media in the radiator at the same rate. Hopefully the radiator can dissipate heat out of the heat media faster than the engine can put it in.
Hope this helped more than it confuses.
Darren
And running a higher stat temp keeps the coolant in the radiator longer. Years ago we had a condition called over cooling. Guys used to remove the stat completely and the cars overheated. Reality is no matter how big a radiator is if the coolant passes through it to fast it wont cool down. As far as 3 cores goes as the number increases the efficiency of the extra rown decreases by a very fast rate. example a 1 row radiator is increased to a 2 row but that does not double it's cooling capacity. But increasing the fin count can sometimes accomplish the same thing. Adding a third or fourth row only increases it 's capacity. By less than 15%. So when designing a cooling system fin count water movement in the device and the amount of air and temp of that air drawn over it is the KEY!!! With that radiators are not very well understood as most always people think more rows mean better cooling. It does not. If you look at some MG ar some older cars you will notice an abundant of fins and both horizontal and vertical ones. And another point a vertical radiator is the worst for cooling as apposed to a horizontal fin arrangement. Thanks
I agree with everything you said Tom, but am a bit confused by your last statement. It is my understanding that the orientation of the fins themselves isn't really the issue, but the flow of the coolant, vertical or horizontal, through the radiator. Is my understanding correct or if not, could you elaborate further?
Sorry i meant to say a vertical tube compared to a horizontal tube arrangement. years ago vertical tubes were the norm. But changine the tubes to horizontal cools 28% better.
Example a 55 chevy or ford radiator had vertical tubes. The cougar you have and the TC i have has horizontal cooling fins . The change to a horizontal tube was dun to make the system more efficient.
Note i am a CRAZY GUY!!! And when something is changed from the norm!!! Example making the cooling tubes horizontal it sparks something in my brain. I always say to myself why did they do that??? So i investigate it. Turns out it works much better. Another example is putting MOTH BALLS in the gas tank!!! Old timers used to do this thinking it INCREASED the octane of the fuel and the car ran better!!! Just the opposite it decreased the octane and made the engine PING. This actually removed carbon from the cylinders and their fore made the engine perform better. This is things that bug me as to why people do things. Another example is people disconnect a battery cable from a running engine to test the alternators output. This is something dangerous and can also mess a car up pretty bad. Including blowing up a battery and cause sereyous injuries. But people still do it ant think they are correct in that ridiculous procedure. Ok enough ranting on my part Thanks.
Sorry double post!!
I've got a 3 core griffin radiator. It fits decent the only issue I'm having is my radiator cap is a pita to get off its a wee bit wider on the tanks so it puts the fill hole closer to the bend in the core support.
I have an e.fan with a fancy shroud that makes the fan stick out further than it really should and I have about 3/8 to half an inch between the pulley and the fan
I had that same issue with my radiator. I grabbed the Dremell, and removed a small bit of core support.