High Output and Standard Output right? I've theard the terms but could someone tell me what the key differences are? Thanks.
cams, heads, intake throttlebody and egr, computer, injectors, i think i hit all of the bases.......
Same as above but in the 87 and up sefi engins the HO pistons are forged and have valve reliefs and the SO pistons are cast and have no valve reliefs.
What about the bottom end? Are the crank and rods the same?
Yup, crank, rods, block('86-up) are identical....
Here are the differences.
.........HO 225 HP----vs-----SO 150 HP.........
(this applies to SEFI '87-up, See notes at end)
Heads, the HO uses the truck E7TE while SO uses the restrictive E6SE high swirl.
HO pistions have valve relifs, while the SO are flat top
HO has a a cam with more lift and duration than the std 5.0(also different firing order, but both are roller).
The HO inj are 19lb(orange top), while the SO are 14lb(white top)
The HO upper Intake has a larger opening(lowers are identical)
HO has a 60 mm throttle body, the SO is only 50 mm(EGR spacer is smaller as well).
The HO has headers with true dual exausts, while the std 5.0 has cast iron exaust manifolds and single exaust(the '88 Tbird/Cougar used a one into two system with dual lers and tail pipes).
NOTE '86 Mustang (also '86-'87 LSC Lincolns) used the the E6 head and were rated at 200 HP. They also used the flat top pistons, std upper intake, and a unique 58 mm throttlebody. Otherwise the were same as later HO.
Some of the earlier Flat top pistons were forged as well
This is probably a stupid question but how different is a 302 from a 351? I only ask because I'm making plans to buy an engine for rebuilding and really the only reason I'm sticking with 302s is that I have a trunk full of parts for one that were intended for my current engine. I've got head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, and a set of valve lifters. If I could use any of that in a 351 I'd be tempted to go down that road.
I'm not sure but I "think" that all those parts interchange. I know the main difference between a 302 and a 351 is that the bores are different sizes and that a 351 has a taller deck height.
I always thought the bores were the same, but the stroke (and deck height) was different. Because of the deck height differences, 302 intakes will not fit on a 351 and vice versa. Your gaskets should fit, but the two rubber end pieces won't, they'll be too short.
Since I don't have the dimensions of a 351 handy I'll ask those of you who have done this modification on a similar Thunderbird: how well do these fit? My car has a classic circular air filter, will that have to be replaced for the engine to gain clearance or for that matter will the hood need to be modified?
K I found a file with the heights of most common Ford engines and at most the 351 seems to be about 1.3 inches taller than the 302. So I cut the end off a candy box measured at 1.5 inches and placed it on the air filter and closed the hood. Both times it didn't crush or move the box but the presence of grime on the top of the box each time suggests a snug fit. I think I should be alright.
you should still be fine. There are several in the user ride of the cool cats section with 460's. They are even taller. At worst you are looking at a k member from a stang that will drop it down an inch or so.
Most of the 351 intakes are taller than the 302 piece, so you better add another inch or so to that 1.3".....
302 AND 351 same bore different compresion hight. (center of piston pin to top of piston) 302 3.00 stroke 351 3.50 stroke. motor mount are the same but as stated it will be taller. what year is yours if its the 85 and older you can get lowerd mustang motor mounts. you will need different down pipes oil pan intake I know Im forgetting others.
Mine is an 83. 302 with TBI.
you are all set if you want to go with a mustang or a 351 then. If you go 85 or newer mustang you will need rollers and stuff but it shouldnt be to bad. Not sure about the sefi wireing and stuff. Prolly be a pain.
I'll probably be looking for a straight carbureted engine. Probably only go with fuel injection if I know someone who knows someone who really knows what they're doing. That said I'd still rather the simplicity of a carburetor. Thanks.
Does a 351 have any identifying marks that will make it easier to find in a syard? I've done exhaustive research and know that various 351s can be found in Mustangs, F150s, and Broncos of various years but it's still really hard to narrow down.
If you find an EFI 351 in a truck it should say 5.8 EFI or something similar. Also I believe that 91 or 92 and later 351 blocks are roller.
Possibly LATE '93, but the block will be a F4xxxx casting. No roller 5.8s before....
Another quick question. I've read somewhere in my research that 351Ms will not bolt on to my stock 4sp Overdrive transmission. My info shows that 79 Tbirds had 351Ms, though I know 79 and 83 are quite different. My 302 is in the same family as the 351 Windsor so I'm not antiting trouble if I find one of those. If I do end up with an M will it really not work and if it can be modified for the application how extensive would that be?
I thought M's were only available in trucks. I figured the old T-birds had Windsor plants.
According to this chart Ms were used in alot of different cars throughout the 70's.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bubbaf250/history/history10.html
Wifes aunt had a '78 Cougar with the 351M, while my pop had a '79 with 351W power.
The 351W was introduced in '69 in Mustangs, Torinos, big Fords, and in the Cougars and Cyclones over on the Mercury side. They have since been used in virtually all mid and full size models as well as a bunch of p/u and vans. There are millions out there, so finding one should not be a problem.
Stay away from the 351M, its HUGE(almost as big as a 460) and nothing interchanges with the W.
M is a hard build(this from a guy that knows).
Parts are expensive and hard to find but it can be done,however i would stick with a newer(87-92)5.0L HO.
Parts are easy to find and is the best bang for the buck.
Also,your c4 will not fit the 351/400m as those engines have a bigblock bell housing(429/460)basically c6 and toplaoder 4 speed are your only options for those engs.
M's did come in many cars from the mid 70s to early 80s,almost a 10yr span.
Hears pics of my 75coug with a done up 351M.
Ok, this is sort of back on topic. Would it be easier to upgrade an SO motor, or just buy/find a used HO? Because as some of you know, I might be buying this '88 XR7 that probably has an SO in it, which I am going to use as a project car. Also, someone told me that supposedly Explorer 302 heads work well on SO blocks--is this true? If so would they bolt right on?