Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: cougrrr302 on July 04, 2012, 12:57:20 PM

Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 04, 2012, 12:57:20 PM
Well I'm sick of the CFI and I'm going Carbed. I've been looking at a Performer series intake and a Holley or Edelbrock 600 or 650 carb. I'm running a factory '84 Flat Tappet 5.0 with exhaust. I plan on putting different heads on it. All opinions and options I'm open to. Need some help shopping parts. Thanks guys.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: SR71blackbird on July 04, 2012, 01:50:23 PM
Id say go with the 600 unless you also plan on getting a cam. New heads wont do very much unless you get a bigger cam.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Dan B. on July 04, 2012, 02:51:02 PM
I ran a Carter 625 for years on a mild 351W.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: TOM Renzo on July 04, 2012, 03:17:55 PM
Rule of thumb 1.6 CFM per HP. This is a basick rule that seems to hold true very nicely. So at 350 ponies or so you need a 600 CFM carb app.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Clayton on July 04, 2012, 04:02:41 PM
It really depends on if your going for power or torque, or how much of the two you want. What RPM range are you going to be in?

If youre going for modest numbers in between 300hp/250tq  and staying within the 5500rpm limit that knocks out single plane intakes. Theyre more for the upper rpm rangein the building power aspect.

Look for a nice dual plane intake like a Ebrock performer series, or weiand stealth

The combo Im running is a ebrock performer 289 and a holley 600
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Beau on July 04, 2012, 06:36:22 PM
I've got a used 600cfm Edelbrock if you haven't yet got your carb...it probably needs a rebuild kit tossed at it, but it's yours shipped for a Benjamin...
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on July 04, 2012, 08:48:45 PM
If you're just tired of CFI, you can do what I did for shiznits and giggles before I put the HO in. Pull the CFI unit and all related sensors, pull the dist and install a 500CFM Holley on the stock manifold. Replace the CFI dist with a Dura spark, find the wire that grounds the fuel relay @ the computer ( I think it's brown/blue stripe) and ground it, install a mallory 4309 reg and you're good to go. Ive posted a more in depth description somewhere but don't remember where.....old age I guess.  :crazy:
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 05, 2012, 05:46:04 PM
I want to throw a different set of heads on because the '84 5.0L heads have a hole on the back of each with a pipe going to the smog pump. I have taken all but the pipe off. I'd just rather replace the heads and not worry about blocking that pipe. If I can find a nice deal on a cam I would love to put a cam in it. Right now the motor is pushing factory HP numbers which IIRC are around 130 at best. I want it to run smooth and be able to at least accelerate and not bog down under heavy throttle. I know all of the problems with the motor and its all CFI related. I have the money for an intake and carb, and probably a set of heads and a cam. Instead of buying a nice dovetail trailer, I would rather drive it to shows still. These problems have been scaring me into not driving it out of town.

Would a 600 be overkill? or should I put one on now if I do go with a cam and heads? I can always adjust the fuel pressure. I'm not worried about power numbers or the RPM range. This is all about driveability and reliability.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Clayton on July 05, 2012, 06:29:56 PM
I'd stick with a dual plane intake and a 600 holley. Mild mannered and easy to tune. I have to re-jet my carb still its running way to rich. I think Im going to run 62's in it and see how it does.

If you do the cam and heads you will already have the carb you need with a 600. You can always change the jets to get where you need to go.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Sinista Chicken on July 05, 2012, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: cougrrr302;393808
I want to throw a different set of heads on because the '84 5.0L heads have a hole on the back of each with a pipe going to the smog pump. I have taken all but the pipe off. I'd just rather replace the heads and not worry about blocking that pipe.

That's your thermoactor tube, an easy way to block them is to remove the pipe, cut the ends off that bolt to the heads, flip them around and bolt them back on the heads with a little high temp sealant.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Beau on July 05, 2012, 07:24:56 PM
Quote from: Sinista Chicken;393814
That's your thermoactor tube, an easy way to block them is to remove the pipe, cut the ends off that bolt to the heads, flip them around and bolt them back on the heads with a little high temp sealant.

That's about what I did on my E7's...only I took a cutoff wheel and cut the heads off of a coupla carriage bolts, and stuck those cut off heads inside the thermactor parts, bolted them back on, and then cut the tube off. Leak free, and took me like 10 minutes.

Of course...GT40 +/- P's don't have 'em....hmmm.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 05, 2012, 08:06:56 PM
Quote from: Sinista Chicken;393814
That's your thermoactor tube, an easy way to block them is to remove the pipe, cut the ends off that bolt to the heads, flip them around and bolt them back on the heads with a little high temp sealant.

 
I would be all for that, but to do that I have to remove the heads. If I'm taking those bad boys out they aren't going back on haha. I had someone offer me a single plane Cobra intake, but he wanted an arm and a leg for it. It was from a Maverick. If it had been the one he pulled from a '68 Cougar I would have bought it. I think a Performer Series intake, a 600 and the necessary linkages should really help that car out alot. The CFI has some fuel leaking issues which floods the motor and there is no way to fix it without tearing it all apart and replacing parts. Plus the tunability of a carb is ideal. I plan on removing all but the necessary wiring. Smog, and CFI will be completely gone.

Beau do you have pics of that carb?
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on July 05, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
Quote from: cougrrr302;393808
I want to throw a different set of heads on because the '84 5.0L heads have a hole on the back of each with a pipe going to the smog pump. I have taken all but the pipe off. I'd just rather replace the heads and not worry about blocking that pipe. If I can find a nice deal on a cam I would love to put a cam in it. Right now the motor is pushing factory HP numbers which IIRC are around 130 at best. I want it to run smooth and be able to at least accelerate and not bog down under heavy throttle. I know all of the problems with the motor and its all CFI related. I have the money for an intake and carb, and probably a set of heads and a cam. Instead of buying a nice dovetail trailer, I would rather drive it to shows still. These problems have been scaring me into not driving it out of town.

Would a 600 be overkill? or should I put one on now if I do go with a cam and heads? I can always adjust the fuel pressure. I'm not worried about power numbers or the RPM range. This is all about driveability and reliability.
Why not just find a good used HO engine and put a decent carb and manifold on it?
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 06, 2012, 06:04:39 PM
Quote from: QUICKSHIFT;393825
Why not just find a good used HO engine and put a decent carb and manifold on it?

 
I have a buddy with an HO engine and it's mine if I haul it off, but he has to pull it from the Lincoln it's in. He doesnt want to pull it yet because he moves it around still. The intake and carb are all I'm doing right away. I want this thing to be reliable and responsive. I wanted to make sure a 600 wouldnt be overkill until that point. In all honesty I want a 347, which will happen in the future. I take the Cougar to shows, but had to miss out on Father's Day because it over fuels badly enough and the brake booster went out. I didn't trust driving it 45 miles to the show, let alone the same distance back.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Clayton on July 06, 2012, 08:33:00 PM
if he has the complete lincoln why not do a full efi convert? just a thought.

But the 600 with the right jets wont be overkill. the adaptability of a carb and the price is why I converted.  I do some real big high dollar mods I can step up the jets and be good with the same carb. UNLESS I go way overkill with the motor and have to step up to a double pumper or a 750 of sorts.

And a jet swap is 4 8mm bolts and knock the front bowl off and switch the 2 then throw it back together.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Bruce M on July 06, 2012, 10:14:30 PM
I would run a Edelbrock performer and a 570 Street Avenger carb. I put a 570 on my freinds 67 bronco, hes running a mild cam and port 4V windsor heads and it runs its ass off. Much better than the 600 straight out of the box. The 570 Holley street avengers are good stock to 300 hp too.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: thunderjet302 on July 07, 2012, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: 87thunderbirdBlackJack;393868
if he has the complete lincoln why not do a full efi convert? just a thought.


If possible I would go this route. The SEFI electronics are much, much better than CFI and would be great for a street car.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 09, 2012, 04:04:47 PM
He is gutting the car yes, but I have no plans to keep any type of fuel injection. Yes my car is in pristine condition, not close to Eric's Vert or Jerry's Cougar, but in very very good condition. With as simple as the gauge cluster and the entertainment features are on this car, I would love the versatility of a carb, plus going with a stroker in the future it seems even more fitting. This is just temporary. The 5.0L will come out but will be used so the carb will play a big roll in the next vehicle it is in.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Clayton on July 09, 2012, 05:03:19 PM
I totally understand. Thats why I went carb. The ease of tuning, you throw a set of heads, a bump stick, and some other little go fast goodies, the most youll have to spend is about $10 in jets, and half an hr with a vac gauge, timing light, and a screwdriver
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 10, 2012, 05:45:58 PM
I would get a Performer RPM intake and a 650 Holley HP.  That will get you a long way down the road especially if you are going to change the heads and cam.  Don't just do the heads as the cam is the brains of the whole engine.

Darren
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: cougrrr302 on July 10, 2012, 06:20:31 PM
Exactly why I'm doing this Clayton. I want to just get the motor performing like it should, and when I pull it out when the times comes for the 347 I can throw heads, cam and whatever goodies I happen to buy on it for whatever car it will go in. Most likely a rat rod. The overfueling issues right now are beyond ridiculous and the cost to tear down and rebuild the CFI isn't cost effective to a carb setup in my opinion. I know it'll end up with a carb anyway. If I go with EFI on the stroker then down the road I'll upgrade all of that, but for now I have no real need especially when the 5.0 out of the Lincoln is just a standard output. I was miss informed. IF and big IF, it were an H.O. I might reconsider, but swapping motors isn't big on my agenda since the power gain would only cause me to go through tires haha. I do that bad enough with my truck.

So far I've heard: Holly 570 Street Avenger, Edelbrock 600 and 650 Holley.
Title: Intake Carb combo
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on July 10, 2012, 06:29:14 PM
X2 on the RPM manifold. I used a 700DP but am playing with a 725VS at present......same mileage BUT less response!