Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Chrome on June 29, 2012, 07:49:45 AM
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on June 29, 2012, 07:49:45 AM
OK, I have done the HO swap. Now have a Ford Senior Master Tech working on it to get the trans right. TV adjustment not doing much to help odd shifting. Anyhow, its got a lopey idle and black smoke. I kind of feel like this thing has been cammed up. Is a Mass airflow conversion in order? It runs great. Just would like the smoke to go away and I know something is causing it to run rich. Map sensor may be faulty, but could it be lack of MAF? I have not tried to check for codes yet. I want to get the trans and exhaust right first.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 29, 2012, 10:02:44 AM
You can put a dial indicator on the top of one of the intake and exhaust rockers. The lift numbers should tell you if the cam has been changed.
Darren
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Beau on June 29, 2012, 11:20:51 AM
If you've got a very hairy cam, and/or bigger injectors, you could very well get the results you have.
Give us a little background on the HO swap? What injectors are in the engine? What eec? Any visible mods? Short of measuring the lift as Darren suggested there's really no sure way to tell what cam is in the car without pulling it out. I'm not even sure a Mass Air eec would let the engine run without there being an M/A meter in place...
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on June 29, 2012, 02:19:54 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;393443
If you've got a very hairy cam, and/or bigger injectors, you could very well get the results you have.
Give us a little background on the HO swap? What injectors are in the engine? What eec? Any visible mods? Short of measuring the lift as Darren suggested there's really no sure way to tell what cam is in the car without pulling it out. I'm not even sure a Mass Air eec would let the engine run without there being an M/A meter in place...
The HO is a re-man out of a 89 Mustang. I was told there were very few miles on it since install. All appears to be factory including the injectors. Did not pull the numbers off of EEC. I believe it to be factory 89 Mustang. The rest of the Mustang was nothing but a rolling modification. A lot of the modifications were just not thought out well. I would not put it past them to up the cam with no regard at to what else it would need. I just thought, if it had much of a cam at all MAF may be required. MAF is more adaptable to modifications. I just wondered if it has much cam at all, would I need MAF. I plan on replacing most all of the sensors. They could be factory 89 parts. After this, and if there are no strange codes, I can pretty much assume the cam is bigger. Other than the smoke, it runs way to good for there to be any major problems.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: SR71blackbird on June 29, 2012, 02:31:12 PM
Well in 1989 mustang got MAF put in them. Before that was speed density. So if you have a computer from 1989 without a MAF meter, that may be your problem.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: SR71blackbird on June 29, 2012, 02:33:11 PM
And if you are running a speed density computer, any mods past a cold air intake and some exhaust work, your car will actually start getting slower and will not run as good.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Aerocoupe on June 29, 2012, 05:15:47 PM
A mass air car will run without the MAF plugged in. Check over by the passenger strut tower and see if there is a connector for an MAF.
Darren
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on June 30, 2012, 12:58:22 PM
Looks like I have some investigation to do. I will look for an unused connector. This could possibly be a Mustang that is not an 89. Plates were ran and it is not stolen. VIN on dash is missing. Driver door has been replaced. I have no paperwork on the car whatsoever. No title and no registration. Thanks everyone for your help. I should have a driveable car soon!
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on June 30, 2012, 03:12:17 PM
A sd car doesn't get slower with engine upgrades...
The maf is a redundant check of air that requires several extra calculations before any a/f ratio is changed or o2 sensors are compared. The only thing that will make a sd car not run as well is not enough fuel, or a very lopy cam or different lope speration that an ad computer won't. Be able to compensate for.
Sd is more efficient as well as having less restriction into your intake. The only reason to go maf is if the cam is unhappy and too big. Most stang alone computer systems are sd because they are so much easier to tune.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on June 30, 2012, 03:13:02 PM
What are your codes?
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: V8Demon on June 30, 2012, 04:13:30 PM
Quote from: Haystack;393537
A sd car doesn't get slower with engine upgrades...
The maf is a redundant check of air that requires several extra calculations before any a/f ratio is changed or o2 sensors are compared. The only thing that will make a sd car not run as well is not enough fuel, or a very lopy cam or different lope speration that an ad computer won't. Be able to compensate for.
Sd is more efficient as well as having less restriction into your intake. The only reason to go maf is if the cam is unhappy and too big. Most stang alone computer systems are sd because they are so much easier to tune.
What he said. Plenty of guys run gigantic heads and even blowers on SD systems including the stock style Ford ones.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 01, 2012, 12:08:05 PM
I must get trans shifting correctly and exhaust right first. I plan on replacing all sensors. Possibly not nessesary, but I don't want that "old car sendrome" where something goes wrong weekly. I feel it will perform it's best with new sensors. Smoking problem may or may not be solved with that. Then, I will run and troubleshoot codes. Everybody seems to think a large cam will make it need MAF. I have not tested lift, but from the way it runs, I believe the cam is large. If the Mustang was a factory MAF car I will put on MAF regardless. If not, I will only put on MAF if needed by the cam.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: SR71blackbird on July 01, 2012, 12:23:14 PM
huh, I was told differently on this form 3 years ago....
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 01, 2012, 01:24:19 PM
If your map sensor fails, it will shoot out black smoke. If you have a vacuum leak, the car will constantly idle up and down and even die. Same goes if your throttle bodyidle adjustment has been raised above what the iac can handle. Then the computer starts cutting timing to try to keep the idle down low enough.
I would start out with codes. There's only about 6 wires that need to work to run a sd computer, plus fuel ijjectors. As long as about 2 sensors work, your car will run, and should get you home.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 01, 2012, 01:31:04 PM
Quote from: SR71blackbird;393587
huh, I was told differently on this form 3 years ago....
Which is something I may have even told you.
Tom (not renzo, turbocoupe5.0or something like that. He doesn't hang out much anymore) Used to brag about getting into the 13's with a stock 1986 stang with just gears and tires. He then swapped to maf because of "how much more efficient it was" and lost over 3/10ths in the quarter mile.
For the longest time, some cams would work fine on sd systems, some wouldn't, and it wasn't understood too well. Basically, if your vaccuum suffers at idle, it will run pig rich and the computer will try to speed up your idle untill it has enough vacuum as well as keep the idle low. Suposedly lobe seperation is a big enough differance for the computer to have a hard time compensating, but since hearing that, I've seen a lot of guys with large cams, and differant lobe seperation run fine as long as vacuum is above about 14 at idle.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: V8Demon on July 01, 2012, 04:12:26 PM
Quote from: SR71blackbird;393587
huh, I was told differently on this form 3 years ago....
Told WHAT differently? The Mass Air thing? SD does limit your cam choices -- at least the stock Ford system does, but with an aftermarket system you can factor in low vacuum characteristics at idle and just about anything else. Thing is it's cheaper to just go Mass Air than to go with a stand alone and get more than enough ability to compensate for 99% of people out there.
Again -- the stock Ford SD CAN compensate and will see power gains from upgraded parts. Just gotta be picky is all.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Beau on July 01, 2012, 05:25:54 PM
And if you have a DA1 eec, you can have a chip burned for the mods you have, and the SD eec will not give 2 fat s whether you have a big cam, a small cam or 3 cams up your butt...*as long as their is a chip to tell it to respond accordingly*
Any obstacle can be overcame with time, ingenuity, or money to pay someone else for the hard work. A large cam on a SD eec is not difficult. But, as pointed out, it's easier to swap to MAF and be done with...after all, Ford engineers and programmers did the work.
OP, run your codes first, somethings may not need replaced. Get a book and a meter, and learn to test suspected components as well. I had a coolant temp sensor that went out of range on a 302 in my 92 truck...caused a lot of grief till I pulled the codes and it happened to be one on the list. I tested it..and it was bad. I'd never have suspected it. New one solved the issue.
That's an example ;)
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 02, 2012, 10:53:58 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;393604
And if you have a DA1 eec, you can have a chip burned for the mods you have, and the SD eec will not give 2 fat s whether you have a big cam, a small cam or 3 cams up your butt...*as long as their is a chip to tell it to respond accordingly*
Any obstacle can be overcame with time, ingenuity, or money to pay someone else for the hard work. A large cam on a SD eec is not difficult. But, as pointed out, it's easier to swap to MAF and be done with...after all, Ford engineers and programmers did the work.
OP, run your codes first, somethings may not need replaced. Get a book and a meter, and learn to test suspected components as well. I had a coolant temp sensor that went out of range on a 302 in my 92 truck...caused a lot of grief till I pulled the codes and it happened to be one on the list. I tested it..and it was bad. I'd never have suspected it. New one solved the issue.
That's an example ;)
I agree completely. There are not a hole lot of sensors so replacement may not be that big of deal. Not a lot of cost or work. I would feel a lot better if all sensors were replaced. I would do this if there were no problems whatsoever.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 07, 2012, 07:22:40 PM
If the engine is running poorly, it's going to be hard to get your trans dialed in with TV adjustment...some kids back in high school had me come over to check out a mustang they bought...told them it had a "big cam" in it...they tuned it up and it ran worse...I went over, corrected the firing order and it still ran like ...big nasty lope and black smoke puking out of the tailpipes...it was half drivable until about 2500rpm, then it would die if you didn't feather the throttle...turned out it had a sable/taurus 3.0 computer in it....and the stock cam. Put in a DA1 and it ran like new. Some people do some goofy things so make sure you check everything over, no matter how unlikely it is that it could be the cause.
Good luck, Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 07, 2012, 09:03:21 PM
Actually, lots of sd computers have 3.0 tarus stamped onto them too...
It probably had a stock cam and a vacuum leak.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 07, 2012, 11:13:36 PM
Quote from: Haystack;393948
Actually, lots of sd computers have 3.0 tarus stamped onto them too...
It probably had a stock cam and a vacuum leak.
If you read my whole post, you'd see that we fixed it with a DA1 and the code that was on the computer was one I'd never seen before. No vacuum leaks, just wrong computer....was trying to fire 6 injectors without seeing a MAF signal(SD car).
Read. Think. Reply.
That's typically how it works.
Thanks, Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 07, 2012, 11:31:48 PM
It would be good advise for you to follow as well. The 3.0 taurus only sticker is well know and shows up under a quick google search. Many mark7 and 87-88 sd mustangs had them as well.
Only part of my post that was assumed was that it probably had a stock cam. Everymustang guy out there says he has $5000 into the engine, a swapped cam and 500hp. High school kids are ever worse.
Basically the only thing that would make a stock engine run better under mass air is a bad vacuum source. Swapping to mass air would have made it seem to run better because the computer no long mesures the incoming air the same. On sd it solely relies on vacuum, on mass air, only mass air.
If you unplug the vacuum line to your map sensor on a sd system, you'll get about 4mpg and leave black soot under your tail pip, and it will run like . When you floor it, it runs "normal". This is becaue vacuum disapears under throttle, making the computer think you are floored, making the car run very rich, and idle very cruddy.
It was probably a bad grounding pin or burned up ecm.
Think before you post next time.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 08, 2012, 04:09:16 AM
I am noticing a lack of vacuum assist with the brakes. Either this thing has a vacuum leak or too much cam. I just wonder if the EGR is stuck. It appears the upper intake set up has seen a little weather. My trans guy is not worried about dialing in the trans with it running this way. I have total faith in him. He got the car this weekend and said he will most likely work on it next weekend. This is a side job for him.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 08, 2012, 05:56:18 AM
All of the plastic fittings on the vac lines, and the vac distribution block like to crack, making it hard to find leaks. You can buy a new block from ford, and new fittings from any autoparts dealer. If you have deleted egr or emissions equipment, there are a lot of extra vac lines floating around.
The map sensor should have its own port. If your motor mounts are bad, the line will flex with your engine torque and wear the line out.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 08, 2012, 01:57:03 PM
Quote from: Haystack;393957
It would be good advise for you to follow as well. The 3.0 taurus only sticker is well know and shows up under a quick google search. Many mark7 and 87-88 sd mustangs had them as well.
Only part of my post that was assumed was that it probably had a stock cam. Everymustang guy out there says he has $5000 into the engine, a swapped cam and 500hp. High school kids are ever worse.
Basically the only thing that would make a stock engine run better under mass air is a bad vacuum source. Swapping to mass air would have made it seem to run better because the computer no long mesures the incoming air the same. On sd it solely relies on vacuum, on mass air, only mass air.
If you unplug the vacuum line to your map sensor on a sd system, you'll get about 4mpg and leave black soot under your tail pip, and it will run like . When you floor it, it runs "normal". This is becaue vacuum disapears under throttle, making the computer think you are floored, making the car run very rich, and idle very cruddy.
It was probably a bad grounding pin or burned up ecm.
Think before you post next time.
You also assumed there was a vacuum leak when there wasn't. The computer they had was coded for a taurus/sable, not just a sticker...you weren't there, you didn't look it up, you don't know. BTW, a high post count doesn't equal greater knowledge,in your case it simply shows a higher level of spewing mis-information from time to time.
Were you ever able to scam anybody out of a transmission yet? I know it didn't work on me, good look in the future though.
YOU are the reason I'm glad that I'm not a regular here anymore.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 08, 2012, 02:16:50 PM
Quote from: Haystack;393965
All of the plastic fittings on the vac lines, and the vac distribution block like to crack, making it hard to find leaks. You can buy a new block from ford, and new fittings from any autoparts dealer. If you have deleted egr or emissions equipment, there are a lot of extra vac lines floating around.
The map sensor should have its own port. If your motor mounts are bad, the line will flex with your engine torque and wear the line out.
Vac lines and distribution block are in great shape. They are the same ones I had with the old engine that ran fine. The only problem the old engine had was a slight knock on the bottom end, and the whole 155hp thing. This rough idle appears to me as a big cam lope, not a something wrong rough. Most of the black smoke comes when putting foot in gas pedal. I won't rule out a vac leak or something else until I run codes and investigate further, but I do think this thing has too much cam and it is causing a lack of vacuum which is causing the MAP to freak.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 08, 2012, 02:29:01 PM
I think when I get the car back, I will do as Darren suggested and pull a valve cover and measure valve lift. Then we will know more on what we are working with here.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 08, 2012, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;393983
You also assumed there was a vacuum leak when there wasn't. The computer they had was coded for a taurus/sable, not just a sticker...you weren't there, you didn't look it up, you don't know. BTW, a high post count doesn't equal greater knowledge,in your case it simply shows a higher level of spewing mis-information from time to time.
Were you ever able to scam anybody out of a transmission yet? I know it didn't work on me, good look in the future though.
YOU are the reason I'm glad that I'm not a regular here anymore.
Why don't you just sit down and tell us all what's really bothering you?
I don't know everything, and don't pretend to. For the most part I just answer basic questions and links to try to help someone out that might not know where to go. If I posted something incorrectly, please let me know so I can fix it. I guess I really steppd out of line by commenting on you having a 3.0 taurus computer in a stang, like probably 50% of all 87-88 mustangs did...
How do you assume I was trying to scam you? I vaguely remember you trying to sell a transmission and me asking about it. I don't remember many particulars about it. I ended up buying one locally and getting rid of my car, so I never used it.
So what have I done to bother you so much?
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 08, 2012, 02:50:42 PM
Oh and btw, evc systems are batch fire, so the computer doesn't know or care how many cylinders the car has when it comes to firing fuel injectors. Each bank is fired at the same time.
Also a bad map sensor input is one of the only things that will make your car shoot black smoke out of the tail pipe. If its a bad o2 sensor or temp sensor, the computer will run in fail safe mode. I haven't had low manifold pressure throw a code before, not saying it can't though.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 08, 2012, 03:22:15 PM
Quote from: Haystack;393987
Oh and btw, evc systems are batch fire, so the computer doesn't know or care how many cylinders the car has when it comes to firing fuel injectors. Each bank is fired at the same time.
Also a bad map sensor input is one of the only things that will make your car shoot black smoke out of the tail pipe. If its a bad o2 sensor or temp sensor, the computer will run in fail safe mode. I haven't had low manifold pressure throw a code before, not saying it can't though.
Oh, and BTW, only the trucks are batch fired, slick...more spewing of mis-information from the feeble minded...I figured you would conveniently "forget" about the attempted t-5 scam and this guys thread isn't the place to detail that. All your "knowledge" is pulled from bits and pieces all over the internet and you attempt to preach it as the gospel truth...doesn't go well with your tendencies to make assumptions. I'd be more than happy to discuss this matter and help educate you via pm.
Anywho, Chrome, if you've already gone through everything it really does come down to checking the valve lift...not too hard, just takes some time.
Good luck, Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 08, 2012, 05:27:01 PM
Most evc4 were batch fire. Even if they were labled sefi. What was that "taurus" computer? That wouldd have set if it was batchfire or not.
I remember the "scam" you had. I didn't have a paypal which you perfered for payment, wouldn't take a check but said you would take a money order in full. Well a money order is much harder to track then a check. I offered to send you half pre and half post delivery and never heard from you again. So instead I bought some stuf locally in cash.
I "pull information form all over the web" from such un-reputable places like fordfuelinjection.com, makers of fuel injection wiring harnesses, aftermarket computers and tunera. Sbftech.com which is the most knowledgeable site I've ever visited, mainly on the eec stuff from joel5.0 . Guys a genius. Coolcats.net (we all know how un-reliable that information is) and many other places. I used to pull info from eectuning.org, but it goes over my head a bit, being as I have never done an h.o. conversion, or needed to "tune" a computer. I don't use my post count as a level of experties, and most of my posts were in the lounge. Counting several throusand from the LAST forum, I average less then 2 per day. If you factor out those posts, it puts me at about the same "post per day" as you.
Earlier in this thread, several people agree'd with me on the sd/maf debate which are way smarter then I am.
If you have something to say to me, just say it. If you would rather post up a new thread, go ahead. I have nothing to hide.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 08, 2012, 06:46:12 PM
I didn't debate anything you had to say on the MAF vs. SD. Instead of listening to other people other places, go pull a wiring diagram on most EEC-IV vehicles...individual pins for individual injectors...the trucks had two pins at the computer...one for bank 1 and another for bank 2....THAT is what differentiates batch fire from sequential...not somebody's opinion. I told you I would help "educate" you via PM...instead you continue to "muddy up" this guys thread.
But since we're going there, I DIDN'T have paypal and told you a check or money order would be fine, but I WOULD wait for it to clear before shipping...that's the way it works when you don't have paypal....you told me you were going to pick up a money order and mail it "tomorrow", the day came and you sent me another PM saying you'd pay $500 up front and the other $500 after you recieved it to your "satisfaction"....you have 1 feedback score...we even discussed how due to crating/freight costs and your lack of buyer/seller feedback that there was no guarantee I'd ever see a second check/MO and I wasn't going to sell the whole kit for $200 because it would cost $300 to crate and ship it via truck freight. I'm very confident that I would have been out a bunch of money had I agreed to that and not because I think you're a bad person, but because you don't have much in the way of feedback.
The bottom line is, don't preach about any given topic like you alone are the source of all that is ford when you don't have the personal, hands-on experience to back it up(which you admitted to) like I do...when you take tid-bits of info from here and there and read between the lines and jumble it all together, it makes you look like...well, let's just say it doesn't look good. Dude, that's been the issue with you since day one...you do post some good info, but it seems like you post 2 bad pieces for every 1 good piece of information and you are good at wording it and coming across in a manner that people who may not know better just think you know what you're talking about.
It's NOT a personal vendetta, I just hate to see people who need help or advice get turned in the wrong direction. The only reason I mentioned the transmission debacle was so that the newer members who don't see me in here much anymore, know that I've been around.
If you have ANY thing else to say about this...please send me a PM before this thread gets locked or deleted...the OP doesn't deserve that.
Thanks, Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 09, 2012, 12:10:51 AM
Haystack and Don, I have no beef with either one of you. I have not engaged with Don in conversation on any thread previous to this one. Haystack on the other hand, I have. Haystack's posts to me seem to be right on. I don't care if it is from his own experience or from a conglomeration of info from elsewhere. I do know automotive repair quite well, but lack in the modification portion of it. This site and people like Haystack help me a lot. I hope you two settle your differences, preferably elsewhere. The whole transmission thing appears to be ages ago and should stay dead and buried. Thank both of you for your help. Please feel free to post on this thread again. Just please stay on topic and friendly to one another..................sometimes I feel like a moderator. lol
Thanks, Derik
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 09, 2012, 01:22:51 AM
Sorry chrome. Didn't mean to muddy up your thread.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: V8Demon on July 09, 2012, 12:20:04 PM
Quote
The bottom line is, don't preach about any given topic like you alone are the source of all that is ford when you don't have the personal, hands-on experience to back it up(which you admitted to) like I do...when you take tid-bits of info from here and there and read between the lines and jumble it all together, it makes you look like...well, let's just say it doesn't look good. Dude, that's been the issue with you since day one...you do post some good info, but it seems like you post 2 bad pieces for every 1 good piece of information and you are good at wording it and coming across in a manner that people who may not know better just think you know what you're talking about.
It's NOT a personal vendetta, I just hate to see people who need help or advice get turned in the wrong direction. The only reason I mentioned the transmission debacle was so that the newer members who don't see me in here much anymore, know that I've been around.
Stack's not perfect (NONE of us are), but he's been pretty good about what he posts. I think 2 bad pieces for one good is a bit over exaggerated to be honest.
Also...From a completely outside perspective.....It DOES sound personal.
Quote
I hope you two settle your differences, preferably elsewhere. The whole transmission thing appears to be ages ago and should stay dead and buried.
THIS.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 11, 2012, 06:00:02 PM
When somebody posts something from someone else's experiences or what they read somewhere, I think that should be noted...like "hey, my buddy had good results with this or that"...but he comes off like he's done it all when it's quite the opposite...and that does offend me on a personal level. That's the last of this topic you'll hear from me. Haystack, I hope you do PM me, I enjoy sharing what I know and have done.
Any progress on this issue Chrome?
Back to machining valvespring seats on my heads.
Good luck, Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Haystack on July 11, 2012, 10:29:06 PM
How about ijnstead of being a prick, you make your own thread? I don't have a problem speaking with you, but I have nothing say that I feel needs to be kept to myself. I certainetly won't learn anything from you.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 14, 2012, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: Haystack;394232
How about ijnstead of being a prick, you make your own thread? I don't have a problem speaking with you, but I have nothing say that I feel needs to be kept to myself. I certainetly won't learn anything from you.
I guess you telling me that I didn't fix a car by replacing the ECM with the proper unit(because according to you, who wasn't there, it had a vacuum leak that magically went away with the proper ECM), you posting incorrect information about batch fire/sequential injection(and then arguing it) and you refusing to carry on this conversation privately makes ME the prick. Welcome to the problem with society, it's always somebody else's fault.
We don't need to make a new thread(for an arguement) and we don't have to hold anything back, but we also need to not have this conversation in a public forum...there is no call for it. If you're closed off to the opportunity to learn something new, especially in the automotive field, I feel sorry for you...how can someone be so certain of these technical aspects with no experiences of their own. If I go read a book on quantum physics tonight, it doesn't mean I belong teaching the masses about it. There is always someone out there who knows more than you and I don't mean you specifically, but all of us. No matter how much knowledge any of us has, there is somebody out there with more...if you're closed off to learning from those people because you have too much pride in the fact that you think you know it all, then you'll never be able to better yourself.
If you respond with more mud-slinging and name calling it will only show your level of immaturity. I've only responded here because you reverted to childish name-calling instead of using intellect and reason to try and explain your side....if you respond in kind again, I'll respond back...but I strongly suggest you respond via PM. Unless you simply enjoy making a public spectacle of yourself....I've said it more times than I care to remember, this conversation needs to be carried on privately...you can call me whatever you want via PM without risk of "looking bad" if and when proven wrong.
-Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Quietleaf on July 21, 2012, 10:59:47 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;393443
If you've got a very hairy cam, and/or bigger injectors, you could very well get the results you have.
Give us a little background on the HO swap? What injectors are in the engine? What eec? Any visible mods? Short of measuring the lift as Darren suggested there's really no sure way to tell what cam is in the car without pulling it out. I'm not even sure a Mass Air eec would let the engine run without there being an M/A meter in place...
(looking a gift horse in the mouth alert)
This one has me scratching my head. For my HO conversion we put in a 1992 Mustang cam, 19# Ford Racing injectors, Explorer upper and lower intake, and GT-40 racing heads. On the exhaust side are Flowtech headers and custom duals from an exhaust shop. And, of course, there's an AFPR.
The car is running terrific. Once the RPM's climb, it's a rocket, and the icing on the cake is that if I take it easy, gas mileage is great. Coming back from Carlisle I got 28.0 mpg (though gutting and rebuilding the trans probably had a lot to do with it).
The weird part? It's still using my stock 5.0 SD computer. It actually ran worse when the guy tried the A9P.
If it ain't broke, I say don't fix it, but it's still weird.
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 22, 2012, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: Quietleaf;394724
(looking a gift horse in the mouth alert)
This one has me scratching my head. For my HO conversion we put in a 1992 Mustang cam, 19# Ford Racing injectors, Explorer upper and lower intake, and GT-40 racing heads. On the exhaust side are Flowtech headers and custom duals from an exhaust shop. And, of course, there's an AFPR.
The car is running terrific. Once the RPM's climb, it's a rocket, and the icing on the cake is that if I take it easy, gas mileage is great. Coming back from Carlisle I got 28.0 mpg (though gutting and rebuilding the trans probably had a lot to do with it).
The weird part? It's still using my stock 5.0 SD computer. It actually ran worse when the guy tried the A9P.
If it ain't broke, I say don't fix it, but it's still weird.
Did "the guy" run the wiring for the MAF and move around the necessary pins? If you did then I'd say you could trust it, otherwise you might want to go through and check it...I think I would trust YOUR electrical work more than anybody elses, I've seen your work. Have you tried a different computer? In order to verify that isn't the issue.
Good luck to both of you on it.
-Don
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Quietleaf on July 22, 2012, 07:01:12 PM
:mad:Good question. Someday I might try it myself, but first I need to get the 12" scratch someone left last night on my rear wheelwell fixed :mad:
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 25, 2012, 11:00:22 AM
Is the MAF even under the hood? Did the person who did the conversion disconnect the vacuum line from the BAP? This has to be done in order for things to work properly with the MAF conversion. The BAP should be left open to atmosphere and the line going the manifold capped. Other than that read this when you have some time as it is pretty much straight forward on the conversion:
Title: Mass Airflow? Update!
Post by: Chrome on July 30, 2012, 08:22:50 PM
Trans guy was disturbed by the rough idle. He has not gotten anywhere with the trans. (TV cable apparently not the issue). He found that the Map sensor was not getting any vacuum. Later I will see where I had it hooked and where he put it. Purrs like a kitten now. No more black smoke. Idle is too high though. I will be checking for a vacuum leak, but most likely it will be IAC. The upper intake shows signs of being in the weather with the TB still on it. I plan on swapping it with my old one just to see. If that fixes it, I will get a replacement. SD system will stay in place!