Technical => Suspension/Steering => Topic started by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 12:02:06 AM
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 12:02:06 AM
Purchased a Mustang as a parts car. I will be taking it's engine and trans. My trans lost 2 gears. Was going to be taking the 5 lug conversion and brakes. Began to disassemble front of Mustang today and discovered MN-12 style wheel bearing. It is separate from the rotor. The lug pattern is not MN-12. I can fit old style wheels on it. I held the rotor up to a MN-12 and lug pattern is not the same. There is about a half dozen washers under the nut that holds the knuckle to the ball joint, and larger spacer washers around the top of the knuckle where it mounts to the struts. I will not continue with the five lug swap with this butchery. I am also afraid the knuckle will lower the Bird. The Mustang sits so low I damaged the core support loading it onto a car dolly. Plan on buying a TC Wednesday for parts, so I am not concerned. I just want to know what the heck these parts came off of?????????
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 12:11:49 AM
Forgot to mention that the wheel bearing dust cap had a Ford logo stamped on it. These parts for sure came from a Ford of some sort.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Haystack on May 06, 2012, 12:46:39 AM
I'm guessing sn-95 stuff...
Post a picture if you can. I'm sure someone here will know.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 02:15:44 AM
OK I looked it up on Coolcats. It must be sn-95 parts. I had thought they were the same as the MN-12. It said the 96 and up sn-95 spindles are for lowered cars. That scares me. even though these pads and rotors look like new, I don't want to change ride height. All those washers that was used I do not like either. With any luck I can get that wrecked TC this next week. The guy that has it is a PITA to deal with. Will not answer his cell phone or return messages.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 03:44:53 AM
Well, with TC parts I will not get 5 lug. All I was after anyhow was more stopping power. The snowflakes will be a major upgrade as well. I currently have stamped steel wheels with hubcaps removed.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 06, 2012, 05:54:21 AM
What kind of setup does the Mustang have on the rear? If you wanted to sell it, I'd be interested...
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 06, 2012, 08:59:48 AM
Post some photos. If the outer tie rod end brackets are dropped it is an early unit. If they are straight it is late. Both have self packed front bearing assemblies and hats for rotors. Shims are necessary because of the thickness of the upper mounting strut points.
Early spindles!!! Does yours look like this?? If your arms are straight they are Newer and dont work very well on the TC
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Haystack on May 06, 2012, 11:37:18 AM
Yup, then you need a bump steer kit. You should have caster camber plates with them as well.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 01:18:31 PM
Now that I look at what is required for 5-lug, It will not happen. I like many of the 4-lug wheels on this site. I do not want modified alignment, bump steer kit, caster camber plates, or tie rods from another year and model of car. I will still try for the TC to get the 3.55 limited slip 8.8 , snowflakes, and upgraded brakes. I see other small parts that I can recover for my car as well. Purchase price for the wrecked TC is $300. I think I can make this back with the sales of some of the parts I don't use and of course the price of s iron is pretty good right now. Don't freak guys, this thing is not salvageable. Jaws of life did quite a number on it. Roof is half-way ripped off and one of the rear quarter panels has been ripped in to.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 06, 2012, 01:32:53 PM
Here's food for thought if you ever go the 5 lug route;
I've got 94-95 Stang spindles, 97 Stang springs, and no caster/camber plates, no bumpsteer kit...etc.
My tie rods are flat as is the control arms..I believe that the bump steer issues become relevant when you either lower a car with the 94-95 spindles, or use 96+ spindles on a stock height Fox...this is just MY experience with the parts on my Tbird however, and are open to debate.
Also, stock TC to stock SN95 front brake setup's stopping ability..i preferred the TC setup hands down over the Stang setup I'm on now. If I could go back in time, I'd probably have my TC rotors welded in drilled in 5 lug.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;389173
Here's food for thought if you ever go the 5 lug route;
I've got 94-95 Stang spindles, 97 Stang springs, and no caster/camber plates, no bumpsteer kit...etc.
My tie rods are flat as is the control arms..I believe that the bump steer issues become relevant when you either lower a car with the 94-95 spindles, or use 96+ spindles on a stock height Fox...this is just MY experience with the parts on my Tbird however, and are open to debate.
Also, stock TC to stock SN95 front brake setup's stopping ability..i preferred the TC setup hands down over the Stang setup I'm on now. If I could go back in time, I'd probably have my TC rotors welded in drilled in 5 lug.
Thanks for that. Makes me think I am going in the right direction. I don't believe I will gain much going to 5 lug. IMO 5 lug is mostly needed for the tall wheels. I prefer 15s. More stopping power is a must. Don't like the way it stops now and it will only get worse when I complete the HO conversion.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: bullitt4514 on May 06, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
I have 99+ mustang spindles and a arms in my 86GT, with offset rack bushings, and my Tierods are parallel to the a arm as they should be. Car is lowered 1.5" as well.
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;389173
Here's food for thought if you ever go the 5 lug route;
I've got 94-95 Stang spindles, 97 Stang springs, and no caster/camber plates, no bumpsteer kit...etc.
My tie rods are flat as is the control arms..I believe that the bump steer issues become relevant when you either lower a car with the 94-95 spindles, or use 96+ spindles on a stock height Fox...this is just MY experience with the parts on my Tbird however, and are open to debate.
Also, stock TC to stock SN95 front brake setup's stopping ability..i preferred the TC setup hands down over the Stang setup I'm on now. If I could go back in time, I'd probably have my TC rotors welded in drilled in 5 lug.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Haystack on May 06, 2012, 02:33:20 PM
As long as I can lock up my tires in a panic stop, I really couldn't care less. I probably would go 5 lug just for rims availability. I walked through a junkyard looking for a spare tire for my crown vic, I had abut 50 tochoose from with good tread, good air, ect.
Found one flat 4lug mini spare.
I must admit though, my wagon stops a lot quicker on stock then any of my foxes ever could. I think I would be happy with tc brakes, but you would be better off in the long haul to go 5 lug. If your redoing everything, price is not that much different.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 06, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
Of course, if you ever want to really upgrade your braking power...you're limited with the TC/Stang 5.0 stuff. With the 94+ stuff, you can swap up to Cobra calipers and rotors...at some expense.
Quote from: bullitt4514;389187
I have 99+ mustang spindles and a arms in my 86GT, with offset rack bushings, and my Tierods are parallel to the a arm as they should be. Car is lowered 1.5" as well.
What k member are you running?
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 10:51:22 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;389198
Of course, if you ever want to really upgrade your braking power...you're limited with the TC/Stang 5.0 stuff. With the 94+ stuff, you can swap up to Cobra calipers and rotors...at some expense.
What k member are you running?
This is the first time for this Bird to be molested. I think Cobra parts would be a little overkill for what I am after.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 11:03:53 PM
(http://[IMG][IMG]http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/chrome404/IMAG0020.jpg)[/IMG][/IMG] Here is a couple pics of the spindle on the Mustang. (http://[IMG]http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/chrome404/IMAG0021.jpg)[/IMG]
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 11:09:37 PM
Here is a pic of the donor. (http://[IMG]http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/chrome404/IMAG0015.jpg)[/IMG]
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 06, 2012, 11:15:06 PM
Just look how stupidly low this thing sits compared to a stock riding T-Bird. I destroyed the core support while loading it on a car dolly to get it to the shop. (http://[IMG]http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x344/chrome404/IMAG0019.jpg)[/IMG]
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: TOM Renzo on May 07, 2012, 05:40:26 AM
OK they are the early spindles. They have shims because the BJ spindle is to long.
Chrome you will need these to get your alignment spot on. Not mandatory but a plus for alignment procedures.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 07, 2012, 06:47:41 AM
X2 on Tom's post. If you use the SN95 balljoint, the length isn't an issue, and you won't need the stack o' washers. ;)
And Chrome, your alignment will be a little off after the TC brake swap, not by much, but it will definitely cause noticeable steering issues.
I'm almost contemplating going back to the TC setup in the front, myself.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 07, 2012, 09:13:35 AM
OK I am a little confused on what I should do. The conversion on the Mustang was done just before it was parked. It has sat for at least 8 years with this conversion and has new rotors and pads. Unknown if they are old calipers or not, but they seem to be OK. If I go with the TC stuff I will have to get New calipers, rotors, and pads. I have new outer tie rod ends, ball joints, and struts all for factory T-bird and waiting to be put on. Could my new parts work with the SN95 stuff? I could use the wheels on the Mustang on a temporary basis if they are not too wide. In the end, I could find wheels I like in either 4 or 5 lug. I suppose I could get the E-brake parts I need from the Mustang with possible modification, along with the proportioning valve. Will have to measure to see what's going on in the rear. I would assume the axles are from 95 mustang. Would that leave me a little narrow? I am open for suggestions at this point.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 07, 2012, 11:30:45 AM
I'd really go with new calipers. You can use your new tie rod ends, struts, and the for the Fox ball joints you have, you will have to put the washers on, as is pictured in the mustang. I'd use the Stang wheels since they're there, and apparently hold air. How's the tread? Rubber dry rotted?..you said it's sat for a time, so you may need new tires...
The ebrake stuff is a no go..but, you may be able to get some Mark 7 stuff from a parts store, OR find a a TC being parted with good working cables.
It could be anyone's guess as to the axles until you pull one and actually measure it. If they are the SN95 axles, those will be the length that will best fit the width of your year car. (86-88 Birds/Cats are closer to sn95 in regards to major suspension bits, ie; axle lengths, front control arms)
I'd probably swap the whole rear, assuming it has the longer axles. There's axle chart that will give more depth to the different axles...
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 07, 2012, 12:40:10 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;389261
I'd really go with new calipers. You can use your new tie rod ends, struts, and the for the Fox ball joints you have, you will have to put the washers on, as is pictured in the mustang. I'd use the Stang wheels since they're there, and apparently hold air. How's the tread? Rubber dry rotted?..you said it's sat for a time, so you may need new tires...
The ebrake stuff is a no go..but, you may be able to get some Mark 7 stuff from a parts store, OR find a a TC being parted with good working cables.
It could be anyone's guess as to the axles until you pull one and actually measure it. If they are the SN95 axles, those will be the length that will best fit the width of your year car. (86-88 Birds/Cats are closer to sn95 in regards to major suspension bits, ie; axle lengths, front control arms)
I'd probably swap the whole rear, assuming it has the longer axles. There's axle chart that will give more depth to the different axles...
I take it that you feel the 5 lug conversion would be in my best interest. Haystack already said so. Mustang sat in a building. Front tires are perfect. Rears are a little dry rotted, but not bad. I drove it a short distance to test the HO and trans. Brakes, trans, and HO all in good working order. Lots of tire rubbing in front and limited turning radius. Don't know if the wide tire size has anything to do with it or if it is all because of the extremely lowered stance. They had to remove all four wheel wells for the combo to work. I think I have decided against purchassing the wrecked TC. He will sell the complete rear axle for $100. It may be a little hairy removing it, because the car is setting on dirt.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Haystack on May 07, 2012, 01:49:27 PM
If it would be cheaper to do the 5 lug off the mustang, do it. If the tires fit in the back of that mustang with its axle, they will almost look small under a tbird. We have way more tire room then stang guys. If the stang is already disks, I would definately use it as a donor, as opposed to the tc. Even though the tc has vented rear rotors, you will probably never notice a differance, and further down the road, you will have to upgrade to 5-lug to upgrade any more down the road anyways. Parts will also always be availiable for the 94 up stangs, can't say the same for the tc stuff. Although the tc is basically 87-93 mustang gt front brakes, but has its own custom rear width.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 08, 2012, 04:19:46 AM
Quote from: Haystack;389267
If it would be cheaper to do the 5 lug off the mustang, do it. If the tires fit in the back of that mustang with its axle, they will almost look small under a tbird. We have way more tire room then stang guys. If the stang is already disks, I would definately use it as a donor, as opposed to the tc. Even though the tc has vented rear rotors, you will probably never notice a differance, and further down the road, you will have to upgrade to 5-lug to upgrade any more down the road anyways. Parts will also always be availiable for the 94 up stangs, can't say the same for the tc stuff. Although the tc is basically 87-93 mustang gt front brakes, but has its own custom rear width.
You make a fine point. The Mustang does have rear disks. Pretty much decided to do the 5 lug. Still want TC rear end minus the brakes. 3.55 limited slip. Don't find that often unless u build it yourself. Managed to get the HO pulled, cleaned and painted. Had some distractions that kept me from disassembly on the Bird other than pulling the hood. Had some paint issues as well. Can said Ford blue. The more I shook it the more it looked like GM blue. Why can't any parts stores carry Krylon anymore?
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: cougarman on May 08, 2012, 08:43:29 AM
Now when I did my 5 lug swap w/ sn-95 stuff, I also had to use sn-95 inner and outer tierods. As the Tbird ones were too short to reach the spindles.
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Beau on May 08, 2012, 09:57:41 AM
So the SN95 inner tie rods will work with a Fox rack?
Mine are too short for comfort...there's only about 7 threads in...this is the inner into the outter...I'd like more, for piece of mind.
I've the Fox (Sport/Stang 5.0) rack, Fox inner and outer tie rod ends
Title: What did these parts come from?
Post by: Chrome on May 11, 2012, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;389344
So the SN95 inner tie rods will work with a Fox rack?
Mine are too short for comfort...there's only about 7 threads in...this is the inner into the outter...I'd like more, for piece of mind.
I've the Fox (Sport/Stang 5.0) rack, Fox inner and outer tie rod ends
Coolcats site says not only will the SN95 tie rods work, but they are required. Most likely so you have more than 7 threads in. I have purchased the inners and have the outers ordered. I have ordered ball joints as well because I do not like the stack of washers. No word yet on the TC rear. Don't know when I will be able to start on 5 lug conversion. HO swap hit a couple snags. Have to have a header altered to fit. Must change linkage on trans so it will fit my column shift linkage. I sure dread pulling the valve body without a lift......