I've been working on a few upgrades. May have tried to take the elephant all in one bite.
This is what it looks like at the moment. A few things have been swapped out but it's missing quite a few more.
The push is on to be back on the road by the Power Tour.
You definitely have quite a list, wish you were closer!
We're on the same page there!
Here's a couple shots of the easy stuff that's done. Still have to sort out the e-brake sytem and cables though. I suspect that particular project will wait while bigger fish are fried.
Looking good fellow MI guy.... I would assume that you go to Milan....
Have you ever made it to the Mid Michigan Motorplex.
Travis
Travis,
No, haven't made it there. I've heard nothing but good things about the track in Stanton, but Milan is incredibly convenient for me.
By odd coincidence, I am within two hours of some really great Drag Strips. US 131 Mootorsports Park outside of Kalamazoo, Mid Michigan Motorplex outside of Stanton MI and Summit Motorsports Park outside of Norwalk Ohio. Put Milan in at only 20 miles out (from my house) and it could develop into a pretty nice Drag Week scenario.
Being in Michigan; something to make sure is on your calendar is the Power Tour. It starts in Milford at the GM Providing Grounds and then heads to Muskegon. Both are an easy road trips from Mt. Pleasant and they're on the weekend.
I'll be continuing to thrash to get the Thundbird up and going for it, but should there be a snag, I do have a back up plan. So one way or another, I'll be there.
Mark
The suspension upgrades include: Tokiko 5 way adjustable shocks & struts, tubular front control arms, MM coil over conversion, Baer Track Kit 13" fronts and 12" rear brakes.
The item below is an A4 block .60 over w/3" forged crank, h-beams and probe dished pistons.
that is 1 very interesting grill! i've never seen anything like it.. not sure if i love it or hate it lol very unique
Looking really good! Keep us updated.
There are times
I vasillate between how much I like it!
The combination of the Turbo Coupe hood and the lowered stance makes the appearance in person more pleasing. The grill causes the scoops to look like like exaggerated notrils, giving it a sort of mean look. Open the hood and the effect disappears.
The unit is a pretty rare Ford Motorsport part. They cost $250 new in the mid 80's, a pretty steep price in those days. There are two versions. This one is an 83/84, the 85/86 has an asymmetrical cross bar.
They will surface occationally on the board, ebay or swap meets. Condition is pretty critical, they're urathane and pr0ne to cracks. They can be restored, but it's pricey.
To help it look more complete or finished, I'll be adding black to the Thunderbird emblem in the center, it needs something there...
Mark
Hopefully the new block stays in one piece ;).
Boy, I sure hope so! I think the rotating assembly would be give way before this block. This one has been nitrided and completely deburred (never seen a block this smooth, everywhere!). A4's are rated at 1,200 HP from Ford, with the mods, this one could be another 300 HP, but the initial rating is overkill in this application...
You should be fine ;). Block breakage is the reson I decided to go with a head upgrade vs. a blower on my engine. I really don't think it's a good idea to push a stock "XXX" block if I want it to live for a long time.
Wise choice!
To do a blower right, the supporting upgrades are considerable, but they do begin at the block. It then goes to the trans, rear end, fuel system, brakes and tuning.
Lots of people do a XXX block initially (me included!), claiming an aftermarket unit is too expensive, but there always seems to be money and time to do it again...
Barring anything unforseen, this build should not have an Achilles heel.
I look forward to seeing you (again) and your upgrades in person this year at power tour! Your upgrades have me drooling.
Here are shots of the cylinder heads.
They are Canfields 192's CNC ported, including the combustion chambers.
Flow maxes out at 305 CFM on the intake and 230 CFM on the exhaust at .700.
The crush is on to get it ready!
When is the power tour?
Those heads look nice.
Travis
Power Tour is 1st full week in June.
Some shots of the intake. An RPMII with a lower ported to match the heads.
Some assembly:
I've spent a bit of time mocking up and fitting the supercharger, headers and dip stick tube. It's taken a few weeks at two to three hours a day to get things clearanced, modified, fabricated.
To fill in what all the combination is:
310 CI A4 Block
Ported 192 Canfield heads
Ported RPMII intake
Kooks 1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8
D1B Procharger Crank Pulley is 7.65 and Blower Pulley is 3.55. The blower ratio is 4.44, this puts the max impeller speed at just over 6,500. They are 12 rib pulleys. The blower pulley has been treated to a Carbinite process it help the belt grip
Custom camshaft w/214.5 @.50 on intake, 230 @50 exhaust, .600 lift on a 114 LSA
You'll notice how far the supercharger hangs off the side of the engine. The belt is 10" longer than the P600b which was on the car, meaning this unit is 5" farther outboard.
The bracket which hold the S/C attaches to the A/C bracket and flexes quite a bit when the belt is tensioned, creating alignment issues which has the potential to throw the belt or it to slip. To provide added stiffness, I fabricated a bracket out of 2" angle iron, some threaded rod and a couple hiem joints.
This allows the belt to be cinched down and keep the head unit parallel to the crank pulley. It took a bit of playing with to find the right amount of preload on the bracket and shims on the pulley.
On to the next phase. Parts that no one gets to see once it's all together.
Time to start fitting the engine.
Fab looks good. I have no experience with a combo like this, but it sounds like you are doing it right. It oughta go like stink!
Turbo builds are not all that different conceptually from a supercharged set up. They each have their own vernacular on specifics though.
Thanks on the fab work! It took a little tinkering. I was happy by what could be accomplished with a little angle iron, sawzall, grinder and a drill. Welding is a skill I need to acquire (hense a bolt on supercharger, rather than fabricating turbo plumbing).
Trying to make sure I have all the bases covered to ensure this build will have longevity as well as "go like stink"! A clutch upgrade was needed with the previous combo (a King Cobra clutch does not handle powershifts well at 450+ lbs of torque with sticky tires). The dual disc may seem a bit exotic, but needed with the antited power increase. The Quick Time bell; a prudent addition, should there be a failure.
After the engine is in, the fuel system gets upgraded and supplemented with an Alkycontrols Meth system.
Looking good fellow Michigander.....
I had a set back with my rebuilt 351w I discovered on Saturday. Number 3 had water in it, removed lots of metal. Need to disassemble to the bare short block and have it sleeved along with new rings.
Travis
:bowdown:
someday
Looking good! Is this thing going to be ready to hit the strip at Gateway in Madison, IL during the Power Tour? I'd love to watch you make a few runs with it.
Anyone else joining you on the tour again this year? Hopefully I will get the chance to run into you again!
Thanks guys.
I've been on it at least a few hours every day to get it together (plus 8 or 10 on the weekends), but we all know how working on cars goes, particulary stuff that hasn't been in the car before... Another member referred to a "truck load of frustration" on his project. I estimate the past two weeks has seen a least three truck loads come and go!
I'll provide an update after the weekend. My goal has been to make a call on if I could make it happen at three weekends prior to the tour.
Well, I sure hope you get it together in time. I would really like to spend more time hanging out with you and Gumby and checking out your rides. Do you have a backup vehicle in case the T-bird is not ready?
I have never undertaken a build this serious, but what things I have done to my car always seem to take way longer than antited. My T-5 swap seemed like it took 4x longer than what it should have and my DS fiasco was also never ending.
I was really pleased to hear the vibration is gone from you car! It's funny how once it's in the past, how quickly the pain in forgotten.
There is plan A and backup plans B & C. If things don't jell over the next 7 days, I'll begin to work on plan B. Plan C is riding with someone in a Yellow S2000.
The extended time it takes to get things done on a car can be staggering! What's worse, is that it always seems to be a mystery or a surprise that things don't go as expected. In my case, that really dumb, because I've been doing this stuff long enough I
should know better.
The only difference between projects that never see the road and those that do is: Perceverience. Solid car guys have it in common (though our significant others may call it something else...).
Mine wife calls it an obsession :evilgrin: and the car a P O S :mad:
But she knows where you are and what you're doing! No matter how much money and time you spend, it's cheaper than the cost of some other "obsessions"!
Gayle calls my Sport an obsession as well, but knows better than to call the car a POS. I HAVE to draw the line somehwere.
Beautiful work so far. Gotta say, I wish I could see it in person.
How true that is. There is a silly :shakeass:ed reason she calls it that...... I made the mistake of asking her to drive the car to the alignment shop for me while I was out on the road right after putting in the front coil-overs and tubular control arms. It wanted to go every where but where she was trying to steer.
I had failed to mention to her that it was a "little" quircky :punchballs:. But she only had to go 6 blocks away.....:mullet:
She don't mind me staying over after work to tinker with it.
I love that engine setup you have there...That is just soooooo sweeet
Thanks Vinnie, and 1 day you just might. I want to drive the entire Route 66 in the Bird from start to finish and back. Could always take a detour.
Route 66 runs right through Oklahoma. Sweet idea.
Yep, right through Oklahoma City :D
1.5 hours away.
I'll bet your wife was a little rattled by that short drive, had to be a scary! Probably why she doesn't mind your tinkering, hoping it'll be "safe" to drive.
Thanks! Hope I have all the my ducks in row for it to live up to it's potential...
Jeez I hope the stars align and you get the 'bird road ready. I'd love to check her out again (with the new powerplant). Good luck man.
One day I'd love to be able to do an engine for my car. You guys are lucky! You can do the major work on your cars yourselves. I have to have someone else do my major mechanical work. I can do smaller things but not the big jobs. I was able to get hands on with the paint job though. I'm friends with the owner of the shop that did it and he showed me how to sand and strip and get it ready for paint. I'm happy to at least be able to say that.
Geat job to you and the other guys on here that do all thier own work!
The work goes on, but progress is slow.
Engine and trans are in. All accessories and supercharger is mounted. Mocked up the 3" mid-pipe.
Unfortunately the I didn't pressure test the oil system when the engine was out. The rear main is g when I prelubed the engine, spinning the pump with a wrench. It will have to come out to fix it. So, no Power Tour.
The plan is to keep moving on completing all the other systems, finish all other mock ups and fitments, then do the engine R&R
Here are a few shots of part of the fuel system upgrade:
The fuel rails are BBRC. I've modified the stock fuel pickup by installing 3/8" tube, adding 10 AWG and a 340 LPH pump. The rest of the pump wiring will also be upgraded, using a relay. In retrospect, I should have used 1/2 tube on the return as the rest of the system is all -8AN (didn't have a 1/2 tube bender anyway...).
Some other items also in progress. This the mount I came up with for the meth tank.
The Alky Controls meth system is an impressive unit. I've bought a lot of stuff over the years and have never received such a well thought out and complete kit. Most of it is prewired with snap together weatherlock connectors. The overall install is pretty simple, but making a mount for the 3 gallon fuel cell was time consuming. The trunk mounted tank was my option and there are simpler ways to do it.
The system comes with a remote contol unit which will be mounted down by the lighter, below the radio (I'll get a shot of that soon), allowing the main control unit to be trunk mounted. The cable to the remote is a standard internet cable, greatly simplifying wiring.
An additional feature with these kits: The lines are all braided stainless lines and he has them custom made for your application.
Here are a couple poor shots of the wheels and tires (space is a bit tight in the garage). They are Hypercoated 17"'s. The fronts are 9" w/255/40 spoogeho's and the rears are 10.5" w/315/35 Nitto 555R's.
For some reason the rear won't settle into position, so it looks high, but it will drop down after a little driving.
Had to do some parts trading for the 9" fronts to work. Gotta thank Gumby for holding my hand through that one!
Awesome!!
Those wheels look great! The paint really shines too!
Looking good Michigan guy....no power tour for me either. Engine is almost together...but life has been in the way lately.
Travis
Thanks guys!
After considerable cutting and filing, I've fit the remote for the meth system in the lower panel. Thankfully the ugly stuff will be invisible.
I'm not a fan of aftermarket gauages in this car. I've gone the extra step of having the tach modified for 7,500 face (yet to come) and utilize a Turbo Coupe boost gauge in an attempt to keep the cluster intact. The need of a wide band and fuel pressure gauge as well as a visible mounting point for the activation light for the meth system led me to a gauge pod that replaces the SN95 clock. Here's a mock up shot. It'll take a little modification to fit it properly. Appears big in the pic, but in person, it's not so overpowering.
The meth activation light is clear bulb in the center upper.
An additional item which will be added to the instrument cluster is low level light for the meth system. It'll go in the yellow turbo warning light. I understand some clusters have a low fuel light, mine doesn't...
When you get a chance, let's see a pic from the rear with your 315s. Looks awesome throughout.
Alright. I'm doing it !! I'm going with 315's in the back next time. The 275's look good, buuuuuuuut..................
Anyway, great work on the Old Bird. Nicely done so far.
Here's a pic, but keep in mind the rear isn't settled yet. These wheel wells can swallow a lot of tire. There has been no clearancing on the wheel house of fender lip. Well, at least not so far. A test drive might reveal some rubbing...
Take a look at the tail pipe, I'll have to work on the fuel tank for the 3" exhaust.
Thanks Vin, still lots to go.
The Nitto 555's (R's and regular) are noted for being "small" for a 315. It seems tire manfacturer can be somewhat liberal on actual footprint! But even if you get one that's "big" still should be plenty of room, well maybe with a little massaging...
I took a break from crawling around making and running fuel lines to work on the instrument cluster.
I received the indiglow gauge faces from Matt (Panther37) yesterday. As you can see, there are some subtle changes, but they retain the OEM look.
The lights are on in the pic, but the flash washed them out.
I am very pleased with them and recommend Matt if your interested in this change up. There are a number of options out there to do something similar, but I felt this was the best option for what I was looking for. He has a Vendor listing if you want to check it out.
An item that is not visible is the change up of the tachometer mechanicals. I've had two issues with the 6,000 RPM tach offered in the Sports and/or the modified 4 cylinder tach: The first being; they are incredibly inaccurate! The second is attempting a 6,000 RPM shift with a tach that is buried at 6,000! Pretty much have to guess and try to stay off the MSD chip...
The new combination has a shift point of 6,500, so something had to change.
With that in mind, I sent the cluster to Redline Gauge Works with a 7,000 4 cylinder face. They replaced the mechanisim with a modern unit and calibrated it for the face. Matt provided an extension of numbers (keeping the same relation to the original). As you can see the yellow begins at 6,300 and redline is 6,500.
Couple other subtle things Matt did: Adding the Thunderbird Emblem to the tach. Getting rid of "Turbo" on the boost gauge. It bugged me to have a supercharger with a Turbo PSI gauge! I felt pushing the speedo face to 155 MPH to be a more realistic expection.
Got to get back out there and wire up the fuel pumps...
Looks good, Mark! Anxious to check it out next week.
i love it
I like the T-Bird emblem in it!
did it cost approximately 200$ like panther said in the vendors section?
if so its really unexpensive for that kind of work
sorry if u think my question is unapropriate
thanx alot
Friday is coming coming up quick! Looking forward to the GM Proving Grounds on Saturday.
Thanks, that was Matt's suggestion! He'll work with people on fonts, colors and design.
Don't think Matt wants to keep it secret! That first post in the Vendors sections is a little dated. The price point was $220 and included the design work (which he'll supply as a separate item), gauge faces, wiring and inverter.
Matt does all the graphics and then works with a supplier who manufactures the indiglow and gauge face. He'll then inspect the pieces for quality and test everything prior to shipping.
thanx 86T-Bird
another question i have is about the brightness
is it brighter or similar
im aksing because i would like to do this with the tachometer but i would use a 140mph speedo i already have so i wondered if there would be a big contrast
do you think the stock gauges are already indiglo?
a pic in the dard would be really apreciated
by the way ur bird is sublime keep up the dream alive
seb
Thanks Seb, I keep working on tweaking it every year!
The brightness appears to be the same, however without a direct comparison between the original and indiglow, it's tough to tell if there is a difference.
The stock gauges are not indiglo. The gauge faces are adheared to green plastic discs with incadecent bulbs behind the discs. The bulbs shine through the disc, creating the green effect.
Indiglow is also a green disc, but the disc itself illuminates.
Should they have a different level of brightness between OEM and indiglow, it may be possible to add a rheostat/potentiometer to tweak it to be in line with the other gauges. Matt may be able to provide more information there.
If you choose to minimize the number of gauge faces you do, I'd suggest doing the tach and speedo. There is enough difference between the OEM faces and the indiglow for it to be noticeable (though less of an issue for the 4 small gauges).
I can't speak for Matt on pricing, but I suspect the price point for one gauge may not be significantly different than a set!
Here are pics Matt sent of the check out, as reference to they look like when powered. Keep in mind the brightness is controled by the dash switch, which was not yet in the circuit.
That. is. awesome.
My goal is to have something pretty close to that, only with a white or possible gray face, red indiglo, and of course the Thunderbird emblem is killer.
Sorta gives me a stiffy....if I had that in front of me during the day, the wife would get jealous... lol
Its a shame your car won't make it to Power Tour...it is a great representation of what our cars are capable of becoming with a lot of determination and hard work! I thought your blue bird was impressive last year when I checked it out but it has improved vastly with these latest additions.
I can tell you have an eye for quality workmanship. It really shows in everything you've added to the car. Those guages are insane!!
Hopefully I will see you guys in a few days on the Tour.
The gauges look incredable lit up! Wow! I really like them!!
Now that's too funny! I'm pretty happy with them but can't say I've had quite the same physical response!
Chirs, thanks for the kind comments! You've done a few nice updates this year as well!
I am looking forward to the trip this weekend! I've got to get some logistics worked out for hooking up with people at the Proving Grounds. I have your phone number from last year, so we'll be able coordinate getting together in Muskegon.
I just seen this thread for the first time, not sure how I missed it.. Looking good, I'm upto speed now cant wait to see more!
Thanks! I have to give all the credit to Matt. He made it pretty seamless.
I smashed my old phone and lost a ton of numbers so definately feel free to call.
I just re-read this post and realized that the Edelbrock heads I have flow 250 CFM on the intake/175 on the exhaust at .500 lift. The heads you have are insane, but just right for the blower :D. And I think my car is fast :hick: You make me want a blower, so I can split my block in half.
You're T-bird is awesome. I love the way it's turning out.
Careful of what you wish for! The drawback on going S/C'd is the expense for the supporting systems and time to sort them out. My journey began with an "OOPS" on an ebay bid (I was certain someone would beat my bid!).
It sounds like you have a great combination now! The new heads sound like they were the final piece to bring it together.
Sometimes a comparison can be a little startling! A well ported intake on stock head will flow 230. The goal with the big head it to minimize boost pressure, while increasing power.
Thanks for compliment! I'm feeling like I'm choking a bit by eating the elephant all in one bite. It's coming along. My next dead line is first week of July!
Any guess as to how much power it should put out at the flywheel? I'm guessing 550+?
The target is north of that at the wheels. I was in the mid 480's with the prevous combo.
I have seen this car in person,it is even more impressive than in the pics!!!
So 550+ at the wheels? that's going to be fast :).
Yeah and I think my HO is an impressive upgrade over stock. :punchballs:
did you use the stainless brake hose for the front flex lines as well? Im going to be putting stainless hoses on my car, and didnt know If I had to use the rubber flex lines...wich would mean going on summit and trying to find the right adapter fitting...
A common question on the board is what exhaust system (with modification) will fit on our cars. With the expectation of moving to a 3" system with full tail pipes I did a bit of research to locate a system which I felt offered the best chance to fit. The space between the right rear tire and the fuel tank is pretty tight.
Here is a link to the system I chose: http://www.foxbodyworld.com/mac-cat-back-exhaust-kit-3-inch-gt-1987-1993/p/CBM8/ (I'm not endorsing Foxbodyworld.com, they just had a great pic of what I started with)
The Mac system offers a ball & socket connection for the tail pipe after the axle (most tails are solid from the ler connection all the way back), which offers a great deal of flexibility to locate the tails away from the tires.
Additional information on my combo: The headers are Hooker 6227-1. I was unable to locate an OTS mid-pipe to mate with them, so one had to be fabricated. Turns out that wasn't too difficult. I ordered some universal exhaust pieces from Summit. The h-pipe kit:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-642030/ , header collector extensions: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HED-18701/ and (2) stainless stepped clamps: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-692300/
In addition to these, I picked up (6) 3" ID sleeves from O'Rielly's to help provide an easy way to hold everything together, as I mocked up the system,
The prospect of cutting a new cat back exhaust system can be a little daunting! In an attempt to keep the cuts straight, I used a 14" metal chop saw and reciprocating saw.
To my relief, the mock up went really smooth. The header collector extensions had great adjustability and lined up well. The right tube was shortened about 2 1/2", the H-pipe slid into place (the H portion needed to be trimmed).
I had hoped to purchase a 3" "ball" to mate to the Mac flow pipes, but was unable to locate any with a two bolt . This necessitated cutting the socket end off the flow pipes and adding an extension to meet up with the H-pipe. The ball and socket at the ler allowed the flow tubes to line up with the H-pipe, requiring a 7" section on the right and 9" on the left.
I wanted the ability to disconnect the H-pipe from the flow tubes, so I used the stepped stainless clamps.
Extending the tail pipes required some cutting and piecing. Though the hangers could have been moved, I chose to work around their location and fit piping around them.
Once I was happy with how everything was placed, I called my friend Jordan. He came out with his welder, tacked everything together, we pulled the pieces off the car and he welded it all up.
I shot it with high temp header paint, in an attempt to keep the welds from rusting.
Here are shots after paint. You can see where the pipes were extended. We used two of the sleeves on the flow tubes to simplify tacking it together, the rest of the connections were butt welded.
I had hoped to add electric cut outs: unfortunately, there is no room with this configuration.
I'll get additional pics of it in place. So far, I'm pleased with the fitment (have to wait and see if it rattles and bangs going down the road!) It's much closer to the body than the previous 2 1/2 system, greatly enhancing ground clearance. Part of it may be the raised port on the Canfield heads, pulling the header up higher.
Those are some seriously nice "boom tubes". Nice fab work and looks like your buddy is one hell of a welder too!
Thanks Chris!
Though everything fit fine around the tank during mock up, I had to shift the tank around and bend the seams up get everything to clear.
Taking close pics under the car don't turn out very well. Here are few shots of the tail pipes.
It is close to the tank and tires, but it fits! Glad to have this part behind me!
On to finishing up the wiring, then the engine comes back out to fix the oil leak...
Busy busy! Looks good too.
I have collected all the parts to fix mine, but havent touched it since I drove it off the rollback...
That's pretty funny! You need another autocross event to ge you motivated.
Didn't you know that 3" exhaust is WAY too big? even with a supercharger or turbo, you are going to loose lots of low end. And stepped headers, waste of time.
All joking aside, I could see myself doing a setup similar to this, minus the a4 block. Those can get pricey.
86 is making some pretty big power....Im sure the 3" will be fine.
Travis
I've heard big heads, intake and exhaust on a little motor can cause a loss of low end torque and I've been loosing a lot of sleep over it! LOL. I was wondering if I loose it, can it be found again?
I felt an A4 or comparable block was needed to help minimize the need to build another short block. The thought of doing a third one was uncomfortable!
Looks great :). Better than my 2.5" system.
Just wondering but is your fuel tank still stock? I have a problem with a fuel slosh induced stall if I hammer it from a stop with less than 1/2 tank. I can only imagine it's worse for you ;).
Looking good Mark, 3" is on my list but not till phase 2 which is looking like some time in 2016 lol.. Still trying to muddle my way thru stage 1
Thanks Chris. I remember fighting with the 2 1/2 system years ago to get a reasonable fit. This was a much easier install. Having someone who could weld well really helped too!
The tank is stock (though the pick up has been modified) and it's not a problem I've had and it's seen some 1.80 sixty foots. There are some claims out there of some non-mustang tanks having the wells sucked dry if the tanks are less than 1/2 full on high horse power cars, but I haven't seen that issue, at least not so far!
Hey Bob! Any luck with the Quarterhorse tuning?
Though it might not look it, there's quite a few hours work getting it this far. This is NOT my favorite part of "car crafting"!
Holy wiring batman ^^^
I am jelous of your tailpipe arrangement. I really like the turndown look.
Nothing tuning wise yet, I did get my gauges installed over the last couple months and some other odds and ends.. June is killing me with time and money lol, just got back from a camping trip, got my daughters bday party this weekend than going away for the 4 th into the weekend.. Should have something to post about in August ;)
And when it's done, everything is invisble!
Thanks Chris.
Hope you can get something happening before August! Keep us posted on progress.
Will do..
And in the meantime I'm enjoying reading your thread ;). Getting me motivated by all the activity here for the last couple months
Mounting the dash gauge pod from an SN-95 was relatively simple, but not all that easy. The thought of drilling holes in the dash pad was not too appealing!
As I pulled the dash face apart, I took note of the small access panel in the center of the dash by the windshield, held in by four clips. It just pops out from underneath (the tripminder/clock needs to be removed for access).
I drilled a few holes for wires and the mount. Modified the mount by cutting off a tab and extending the slot.
After fishing all the wires (and there are a lot of wires for an electric fuel pressure gauge and air/fuel gauge, their lights and the "on" light for the Meth system!). Once everything was clear, it snapped right in.
Awesome idea!!
Great job! I like how you didn't have to put holes in the dash.
Thanks guys. Sometimes a little luck helps things come together!
I like it!
Now I can put some extra gauges in without drilling holes in the dash top :).
Glad to help out!
Pretty slick....
Question...you already have a TKO600 right?
Travis
When I initially supercharged it, I swapped out the T5Z and put in a T56.
Wow....T56 in a bird....that will be super cool. When you start talking the big power you should make....I want both hands on the wheel..... :)
Good luck,
Travis
what t56 was it? the one you buy already with the conversion for the cable speedo or did you modify the trans yourself
im asking because i really want to do the t56 swap and retain stock speedoà
than alot beautiful bird!
Thanks!
The trans is from Hurst Driveline Conversions. The cross member is from AJE and was modified for greater exhaust clearance. The speedo shouldn't be an issue, different from a Fox Mustang (which are cable) our cars have an electronic pickup. I pulled the sensor out of the AOD and put it in the T56. The wires needed to be extended though.
I did a write on the conversion from T5 to T56, but most of it's relevant to an AOD to T56. Here's the link: http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?27925-T-5-to-T56-Tips&highlight=
thanx alot its really appreciated
Car is coming along well. I like your style.
Just a heads up that this hasn't become another "lost" project.
Though it's been months for an update, I've been working away, just struggling with fitting together a combination of parts that haven't been mated before. It's been like peeling the layers of an onion! You've got to get through one layer before you discover the next...
The engine & trans is now in for the third time; sorting through issues with oil leaks (after the rear main seal, I found I had also "sprung" the pan when clearancing for a set of headers that ended up not fitting), a binding oil pump shaft (that was in interesting find & fix), and fitting the trans through a dual disk clutch (you really need an input shaft to line up the discs, an alignment tool just won't cut it). Each time I've pulled the Assembly to fix a problem, I've discovered other unforeseen issues which would have been problematic, so though frustrating, "it was meant to be" and I'm seemingly farther ahead though all the trepidation!
Thankfully a few friends sacrificed some time for some thrash fests, which helped cut the tension and make it a lot more fun! Without Mike, Mal & Tom, it wouldn't be in place.
The next phase is just the "tinkering" of getting the rest of it assembled (you know, the actual "bolt on" part).
Unfortunately, this is where I'll be stalled for a bit. I'm recovering from getting a little "grind & polish" work done on my right hip this past Thursday.
I did choke on trying to take the elephant all in one bite, totally blowing my time frame!
I'll post progress when I get back at it. I'm sure there are more layers to this onion!
Hang in there Mark...
At least you're finding the possable problems before they happened. That's defenately a good thing.
Sounds like my kinda luck...lol. Keep plugging, you have one sweet Tbird!!
Thanks guys. Lots of great work's been done and I'm pleased with what's been accomplished.
Need too heal up a bit & I'll get back to it.
Progress!
Travis
Hope you are mending well. Love to catch the updates as they come. Keep up the great work!
Glad the past two weeks are behind me! Shouldn't be too many more weeks until there will be progress.
Looking at the original date of the thread, it's been almost a year (so far...).
A lot has been accomplished. The amount of work to re-engineer most of the mechanicals has been a bit staggering. Kinda disappointing the pics don't reflect it (it's all just "bolt on").
I've been fortunate to have friend who has dedicated the one day a weekend for the past five to work out there with me. It's made it far more fun!
As the pics show, it's about ready to fire. I've run into a snag with my computer not recognizing the Moates Quarterhorse. Once that's sorted out and the base program is installed, it'll be working on getting it fired.
Looking good bud, who did you purchase the quarter horse from? Someday I'll finish mine up lol
Good looking set up
Looking good mate! :)
Bob, I purchased the unit itself from Moates, but have a base tune from Dirty Dirty Racing.
You gotta start visiting your car in the garage to finish it up! FYI, I recently sold the hood...
Thanks. I see you're making great progress on your's! A far prettier installation than mine. Also noted you'll be using a Quarterhorse too. My ignorance on how to download the base tune needs to be over come, but if I can accomplish that in the next few days and there are no serious gremlins, it may run this weekend!
Thanks! As I get this wrapped up, I'll do a chronicle on a new engine in the Mustang.
Sweet
It's nice if it looks good but the important thing is that it works and is fast ;)
Yeah, my father is using Quarterhorse on his T-bird so I'm getting it aswell, easiest way of doing it.
Hopefully the startup will be a success for you :D Is your Procharger self contained or the old model like I have?
Looking good!
The Quarterhorse offers some great options and a good bit of support. I particularly appreciate the ability to data log & modify the tune, which brings the EEV-IV into the current generation of processors and tuning options.
I too have the older oil fed unit. From information I've been able to locate, the oil fed units have some advantages over the self contained (SC) models: The gear ratio is more advantagous (4.44:1 compared to 4:1 for an SC). This allows a larger pulley on the head unit, minimizing potential belt slip. They are claimed to make more power than the SC units. The disadvantages are: Noise and running the oil line.
The one on the car is a D1B. These are less common than D1's. They were Procharger's early effort at offering a street oriented blower, offering an early boost response (at an lower RPM), but less boost at higher speeds (similar to the current SC offerings: P1SC & D1SC). This one has a straight impeller blades like a P1SC or P600B, as opposed to the curved ones on a D1 and D1SC.
Doing a bit of research, it appears Procharger rated the two blowers as follows: D1B at 825 HP at 63,000 (air flow limited) and the D1 at 925 HP at 65,000
The plan is to get the car set up and tuned with the D1B and then have the option to put the D1 head unit on (I have both). The pulleys are set up with a 3.55 head unit and 7.65 crank pulley. An engine RPM of 6,500 should put the head unit at it's max RPM. The guestimate on peak boost with the D1B is 14-16 PSI and 18-20 PSI with the D1.
The great part about the Quarterhorse is the ability to sneak up on the boost (by limiting RPM) to minimize the chance of a disaster. With the ablity to access three tunes via the rotary switch, it's possible to set a "safe" tune for pump gas, one for pump gas & methanol injection and one for race gas & methenol.
But all that is getting ahead of myself! Step one: Get the tune downloaded to the device! Step two: Complete the final details of the install (and there are a few). Step three: Get it running!
That's more information than I had! Appriciate it! Always wondered about the D1B, and the information is hard to come by.
Wait a minute, did you say the noise is an disadvantage? I absolutley love the whine from Prochargers, it just screams pure shag!
Another advantage of having an oil fed unit is that there's less chance for oil overheating. Some people have had issues on long trips with SC units that overheats. I wont be making long journeys but it's good knowing it wont be a problem for me.
I'm happy I went with a D1 instead of a P1. I could definetly keep the D1 if/when I build a 347", I can also keep it for a while (but for optimum performance an F1 would be good) on a 427w. I haven't decided yet if I want to build a 347 or 427 for my car. But that's not until atleast 2 years that build is starting.
Takes a while installing these superchargers. I've taken my time with it, no rushing. Making everything perfect. Completing it to 100% before the first startup. No need to rush it, we still have snow here :)
Compiling information on the older units is tough because they are almost Dinosaurs! The noise can get tiresome if you get stuck in traffic. Some of them sound like a coffee can full of marbles!
The D1 is pretty versitile. Though I have no first hand proof, the research I've done indicates a D1 will support considerably horsepower more than a D1SC, though they're rated the same. Depending on the power goal, a D1 may support either engine.
If you need a bigger head unit, consider a D1R (1,200 HP) or D2R (1,600 HP), will both fit your current set up with just a head change (well the D2R will need a bigger discharge tube...).
They too are old oil fed units, but are often available used relatively inexpensively (no one knows what they are, or they are too much blower...). Somthing to keep in mind before swapping out to an F series!
I hear you on taking all the time needed to install the unit correctly! They (at least the intercooled Prochargers) are not a simple bolt on and go. I can't count the number of times I've mocked up and made minor adjustments needed to feel its correct.
I understand why some people go Vortech, it's easy to set up. But I don't understand people who's building a really serious car, and buys a vortech. Not having an intercooler on a streetdriven procharger/vortech setup is like building a race car, and keep it open differential. It will work, but it's stupid :D
LOL!
I have to admit, Votech's are very simple to mount and has an addtional advantage to those new to supercharging; its draw thru MAF (non-pressurized tune remains the same, so its actually driveable on intitial start). It's claimed they are more efficient, creating less heat, thus reducing the need for a I/C (though most big power applications have some form of I/C, either chemical (meth), air/air, air/water).
The use (or abuse) I plan for my application, I prefer the I/C & meth combination!
I've been able to get my computer to recognize the Quarterhorse and I've sorted out how to download the strategy and the tune to Binanry Editor & into the device! If there are minimal snags on start up, Sunday may see some pleasant noise in the garage.
You people and your Prochargers are silly. I like it. Keep up the good work :).
Racers use Prochargers, the rest uses Vortech ;)
I don't see the point. Effectivity doens't matter that much when simple physics apply. There's a reason why turbo cars has always had intercoolers and so should a centri-supercharger. Using a centrifugal supercharger without intercooler is ruining one huge advantage. If so, it's better to just go twin screw :P
But yeah, Vortech kits are easy to put on and use. They are true bolt ons so that's why they're popular among budget builders/street cars. But when doing it seriously, there's no point of not going Procharger :)
Good to hear!
Crossing my fingers for you this weekend.
Hey Fellow Michigander...
Making some progress I see... I really liked my Quarterhorse... Are you using Binary Editor/EEC buttstuffyzer?
You are way ahead of me :) although I did get the right C4 bellhousing and flexplate...made a couple of calls to torque converter guys... $$$
Travis
I do have both Binary Editor and EEC buttstuffzyer. There's quite a learning curve ahead, but having a base tune to work from helps!
There are a few options on bell housings & flexpates for C4's. I've been around that block too!
Wish the crossed fingers worked!
Buttoned everything up today, hit the key - CLICK!
The good news: No fluid leaks of any kind (great news on a completely fabricated fuel system). The fuel pump is operational (meaning the 340 LPH pump relay & wiring is fine). The pump cycled properly, so the EEC is controlling that function. Electric Fuel pressure gauge is working.
Engine rolls over by hand, so it's not mechanically bound. Getting 12 volts to the starter, but ran out of time for further trouble shooting.
Starter is the likely suspect. It's new, but that doesn't eliminate it from consideration. Fortunately I have 3 piece 1 3/4" Hooker Super Comps, so the header can be removed to access the starter if necessary (the last set up had one piece headers, trapping the starter against the T-oil pan. It was a pull the engine ordeal to replace the starter).
Not fun, but there are worse things.
Dang Mark....always something...would a solenoid cause a no start issue?
Travis
P.S. yeah...lots of different C4 BH....almost too many. Atleast there cheap :)
Selenoid seems unlikely as there is power to the selenoid when turning the key (the click) and then 12V hit's the starter at ~44 AMPs. Not looking good for the starter...
Did you at least bang on that starter once to see if it would free up(and vent frustrations)? :punchballs:
I won't be able to get the hammer out until Wednesday night, but it's coming!
Hey I see you've been busy on the truck! Nice work.
For those who aren't aware of Gumby's fabrication skills, check out: http://www.turborangerforums.com/showthread.php?t=4195
wopps missed this post sorry. Yeah Willie seems like a nice guy. Let me know what you think of his tune. I'll order my stuff from him some day.
That Ranger is awesome Gumby!
When finished with the truck, do the same to the T-bird ;)
Haha, thanks.
The tbird already has thru floor SFC, and Cobra IRS, etc etc. It will stay a street car once the truck is done.
Yeah nice work on the ranger gumby...
I just realized Mark hijacked his own thread lol
Full IRS on a T-bird is shagy! I must've missed that car... Is it posted here on the forum?
Yup.
*waiting for Mark to get out the hammer*
Success?
Yes & no...
Sorted out the starter issue. Starter was fine, so no disassembly was needed. The error was mine: I put the battery in the trunk (actually I have two batteries, a Dyna Batt in the front for the accessories and big one in the trunk just for the starter). I mounted a solenoid on the battery box to switch power to the starter. Solenoids are self grounding IF it's mounted to the body. OOPS! The battery box is plastic! All that was required was a ground wire.
Hit the key, fired instantly!
Going through the usual inital start up issues. Got the fuel pressure down to 39 PSI from 70 PSI and the A/F went right to 14. Idling nice (which is amazing for a blow thru set up on first start up!), Procharger whistling away.
Go to set the timing: Looking too far advanced; recognized the sprout was still in. Shut off the car, pulled the sprout, made sure the distributor was free to move. Hit the key and all it does is crank & not fire! Look over the guages and find the fuel presssure at zero, but I can hear the fuel pump cycling with the key. WTF?
It was 10 PM, time for bed!
Wake up at 2:23 AM with this thought: There are two fuel pumps. One for the gas tank and one for Meth tank. Both are wired to the same switching circuit, but each with a separate fuse & relay. When I get home this evening, I'll check to see if there is blown fuse on the main pump.
I'll post after seeing if my "dream diagnosis" has any merrit!
It's the primary fuel pump.
Hit the key, fuel pressure popped and it fired right up. Ran for a bit, everything seemed good. Shut it off to set the timing and again, no fuel presure on the attempted restart. Pump just goes GRRRR.
New Areomotive 340 LPH Stealth pump is not co-operating. Time to drain the tank and drop it again...
Sunday.
Sunday Sunday Sunday!
At least you heard it run....gotta love the motivation that can inspire!
Yes! Hearing it rumble is gratifying. No strange noises, runs smooth & clean, leak free; all those things of which you live in fear on a first start of a major build.
It'd be great of it was problem free, but I've gotta be realistic about getting all the things which have been touched, tweaked, modified & re-engineered, to properly mesh together.
Though I"m antiting a good number of hours to get it sorted, it's a small fraction of what's been spent!
Hey Mark
Always some road blocks.... I have one of those aeromotive 340 in a box....a needed upgrade after the car runs....hmmm
Well buddy at least you are making progress.
Travis
Kept working while waiting for a new fuel pump. Couple item which needed to be addressed:
Transmission cross member: I have an AJE unit for a T56 swap. It is a solid mount to the trans. I'd had it modified with larger loops to clear the 3" exhaust. Was not thrilled by the solid mount. At the time I did the swap, AJE was the only option. Recently another unit became available from Stiffler (don't think his mom is part of the company), which has provision for a trans mount and huge loops to clear the exhaust.
Pretty straight forward install. The exhaust needed to be dropped to pull the AJE unit. The trans mount was ~$7 and in stock at Advanced.
Another issue which cropped up, was installing battery retention bracket for the mini battery. Seemed simple, but resulted in the relocation of the MSD along with the two step & multi RPM select switch.
Few more pics of MSD mounting:
Replaced the fuel pump. No joy.
More trouble shooting to come. Heat related issue. Fires, runs ~5-7 minutes, shuts down, no fuel pressure. Let it get cool down, same deal.
Time available to look at it again is a few weeks out.... Got a plan though.
That trans mount is pretty cool :).
Good luck figuring out the problem. I hate electrical related issues.
I was pretty happy to find the cross member, just happened across a thread on Corral...
Electrical issues suck!
Yea electrical issues suck
The bat mount looks clean though
That crossmember looks shagy!
Too bad you're having the fuelpump issue :(
Although I cannot help you on that one, I have no idea. There's nothing wrong in the tune perhaps?
Dont' believe it's a tune issue, but maybe in installation error of the wideband to the pin on the computer. One of the items on my list to check out late next week.
Thanks! Though it looks super simple, there was a bit of head scratching to ensure there was easy access to the rotary switch and the high RPM chip on the Two Step. The clearancing for the air inlet is invisble in the photos...
Yea you need to get to that lol
How goes the battle?
Travis
Out of town until next Wednesday, so all I can do is think about it!
Alive???
Travel & flu kept me away from the project till yesterday.
Fuel pump issue is resolved. The breaker for the pump overheated from repeatedly hitting the starter. The next issue is: running lean, very lean. Bouncing between 16.5-18/1 at idle. I'll have to speed up my learning curve using the Quarterhorse to sort out whats going on there.
Continue to work on other issues:
The two point K-member brace wouldn't work with the new headers, so a new one was fabricated. I'll post up pics a little later.
I purchased an Eastwood fender lip roller and spend a couple hours getting the clearance needed for the wheel & tire upgrade. The unit worked great!
I've got a punch list of 17 items right now (as I work it down, there'll probably be a few more show up!).
Comparison of the simple two point K-member and the fabricated unit. I had to add spacers to it to clear the previous set of headers, there was no hope for it to clear the 1 3/4 Hooker Super Comps.
My buddy Mike who's been helping for most Sundays for about 4 months, fabbed up the square tubing piece. It attaches to the same K-member points as the previous, but had to run further toward the front of the car to clear the tubes. It ended up bolting to the K-member itself in 4 points. It may also help protect the headers. The piece on the front not only adds strength, but is a bit of a skid plate.
I took a couple shots of the stance of the car, but it does not show well in the garage. The front fender lip is 25 1/4" above the floor. Though it appeared the tires "might" clear, I rolled the lips in to minimize the chance of cutting or rubbing a tire. Assuming my punch list gets worked down sucessfully, I'll have pics of it outside soon.
What did you end up doing to get fronts to tuck in so nicely??
94/95 spindles were the only way to go to fit 9" wheels on this car. Keep in mind, it's an '86, whose K-member is an orphan (87/88 motor mounts w/short lower control arms). So I can't say my experience is typical.
I just happened to have a set of the SN95 spindles in the basp00get (did I mention I have a parts buying problem...) and swapped out the Baer Brakes spindle & rotor setup.
This does have coil over's too. An option I could have explored to gain additional wheel clearance from the spring, was to utilize a short coil over spring (Gumby is using an 8" unit & mine is a 14"). Thankfully, it was not necessary.
25¼" is gettin down there! Another ½" and you'll be as low in the front as I am :evilgrin:
Car and garage look SO clean! Mine are always trashed when nearing the end of a round of upgrades... Good to see it sittin on its own weight with the new stance :bowdown:
Very nice
Looks great. Coming along very well any pictures of the engine bay with all the new add ons?
I have a 00' GT k-member with 94' tubular LCAs, 00' spindles, cobra 13" brakes up front. I'm curious as to what mine will turn out like with the 9's I want. What offset are those wheels??
Nobody can get there car as low as you (& still whip it on the autoX)! Particularly in the rear. I'm still trying to figure out how you got up my driveway approach without getting hung up!
You know how pictures lie! Even though I've had some time in the past year to pick up a bit, you'll notice the pic only shows one direction....
I was really happy to see how the stance turned out. You remember the angst I was dealing with!
Have to reinstall the wheel well liners, the bump steer kit & re-torque the front suspension. Then move on to the rest of the list.
Here's a couple more of the engine bay & a shot of under the car to see how the brace mounted, the trans, trans crossmember and exhaust.
Boy, I thought I had a mix of parts!
Both the front & back wheels are OTS units for a '99-'04 Mustang. IIRC, back space on the front wheels is just under 6" (5.98"), what ever that equates to in offset...
I used a Wheelrite tool to help get me in the ball park, but a borrowed set of wheels really helped me to visualize what was/wasn't going to fit.
LOL. I forgot to mention the coil overs on the front. I've got more too :hick: 03' cobra IRS, Cobra T-45, and of course the 4.6 DOHC with a recently aquired (slightly shortened runners) Cobra intake that I want to polish.
If you want a REALLY messed up setup, 87/88 tbird K member, MM fox 3/4" forward Tubular control arms, 03 mustang spindles, MM coilover kits on koni's with 7" springs currently, and going to 6" springs for springrate.
Or an 03 Mustang K-member if you want those motor mounts! ;) Measured my 88 T-bird K-member and dads 03 Mustang one and it's all the same measurements between the holes for the bolts! ;)
Well, if we are gonna play this "ooops I screwed myself on wheel fitment" game I will take a lil out of each of your lists:
Tubular fox kmember(wider, forward, and raised LCA pickups), sn95 length control arms, 94/5 spindles, 13" brakes, and the IRS out back. 7" coils on the front struts saved my bacon fitting the +45 offset 9" wheels to keep em under the stock fenders :toilet:
Mark: Looking good.
I didn't notice that the MAF was rolled to the bottom of the pipe. you might have the car running and roll the maf back to the top and see if it change the A/F
Just an ideal
Have you driven the car yet? What I mean is the AFR better with load...just cruisen?
Travis
The MAF is rolled under to minimize the turbulence the sensor sees due to the blow-thru set up. It won't idle at all, if I move it.
Haven't driven it yet. Goes dead lean if I crack the throttle.
I'm working on the punch list of other items & will then address the lean issue. Got three items off the list on Thursday night & a couple partially done.
Can't touch it till next weekend, but will have another distraction come Sunday, a 9 week old pup!
Well Mark...if it was me...sense you just changed the fuel pump. I would go into the VE tables in BE and multiply everything by 20%(please save the current tune before you mess with it :) ). If the car is abit more drivable then it maybe a tune issue...or a bad sensor..MAP/BAP???
If that doesnt really change anything then I would think...fuel pump or something related to the physical installation.
Travis
Thanks Travis. Greg (5.8fastcat), suggested that as well. I'll check the wiring on the MAP to ensure the plug is fully seated. The sensor is new. Fuel pressure is right on 40 PSI with the line pulled, though it drops with the line on, due to 15" of vacuum.
Appreciate the help.
Well Mark...fastcat knows his stuff...
Your fuel pressure seems fine.
Travis
I'm hoping it's as simple as adjusting the tables. As you mentioned, if that doesn't take care of it, I've got mechanical issues. One step as time..
Yeah Buddy
Now I think about it...could be the VE tables...MAF voltage/ground, power to the fuel pump, gremlins.... :)
Travis
Been working away on the punch list!
Started at 17 and had a few items add on as some have come off. The litany of of two trial assemblies (each resulting in some type of modification), with the third being the charm(mostly), continues. The list is now down to 12.
A challenging & interesting learning curve was setting Bump-Steer. I purchased the tie rod kit from Maximum Motorsports plus the tool required to measure bump-steer (not much use in buying the tie rods if you can't make sure it's adjusted properly!).
The basics to set it, involve: First setting the toe to zero and then remove the springs & sway bar links. This allows the suspension to have a full range of motion without tension. From there it's setting up the tool and doing a base line measurement. The baseline will indicate where to start with either adding or subtracting shims.
It was a tedious process (it took us a full day...), but it was surprising how much toe deflection was minimized as the suspension moved (almost zero in first inch up and down) by proper adjustment.
The installation of the inner wheel wells took a bit due to the -8an fuel lines (two feed & one return, plus the -4an line for the Meth system) which now run through passenger side wheel well. Additional complications included the rolled fender lips and some tpuppies of the K-member to ensure there was no interference with tire clearance.
A necessary modification was adding sound insulation to the hood. You may have heard the straight cut gears of a oil fed Procharger are loud, let me give a point of reference: This things screams enough at idle to drowned out a shouting conversation when the hood is open!
To help mute this, I purchased some Dynamat hood insulation. Making use of cardboard templates allowed the small piece of material to be cut strategically to cover the majority of the under hood surface. Thankfully is was effective!
A couple wild cards which came up while working down the list:
Unable to reinstall the strut tower brace without modification. The RPM II is much taller than a GT-40 tubular unit. To correct it, the tubing had to be cut, bent, re-welded and repainted. These changes are expected to completed this week and installed next weekend.
Clutch cable issues with the dual disc clutch: Within the last week, a thread on clutch engagement issues with dual disc clutches came up on Corral in the Supercharger section. I found it a good read and it raised questions in my mind as to if I too may have issues. Today, found the answer to be yes! The plan is to look for a way to modify the cable to gain additional length, which may take care of the problem.
that looks clean
Thanks. Hopefully it'll age well. Disappointing the wording on the insulation is upside down, but it was the only way to get the three pieces out of the mat.
Sounds like some good progress. Few questions about the bumpsteer process.
Was all this done on an alignment rack? Did the full day include the removal and reinstalling of the sway bar and springs? Did you do both sides or just one and use those results for the other side? I will need to be going thru this process sometime and just wondering what I need to plan for. Also going to be purchasing the MM bumpersteer guages, I assume they come with some good instructions.
Dynamat looks good, if you wanted to cover it up maybe these hood liners would work, might even help with some more sound damping.
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?16895-1987-to-1997-Thunderbird-and-Cougar-custom-made-hood-liners
The full day included removal and re-installation of springs & sway bar. Both sides were checked and adjusted (the amount of shims from one side may be used as a base line for the other side, but each side was different. This was not done on an alignment rack. Setting zero toe can be done with a tape measure.
MM provides instructions with the kit (both in the tie rod kit & the tool) as well as on their website.
The biggest challenge I was getting consistent measurements. Each needed to be measured at least three times in both compression & extension to ensure they were accurate. There was a good number of times when the numbers were whacked and it was necessary to start over.
It seems checking bump-steer is one of those items which is often mentioned, but seldom followed up on. After witnessing the dramatic difference, I'm glad I took the leap (both financially and time) to take care of it.
Thanks for the info. Will definitely be taking the time to do this.
Lots of small stuff taken care of and the list is getting smaller. Here's shot of how I made use of where the ashtray went: The rotary switch is for the Quarterhorse for up to three different tunes. The port on the right is to hook up the computer to the Quarterhorse. The rocker switch if for the future...
How about an '89 Super Coupe steering wheel? Simple bolt on. The wheel is 1/2" larger in diameter. Seems to fit the interior better than the TC unit.
I'm not really convinced on the bumpsteer stuff. I've never checked any of it, even with my really oddball setup, and if it has bumpsteer, I'd have to say I'm using it to my advantage. My car turns into a corner instantly and sticks the whole way through. Could also be a byproduct of my really high rate coilovers though too.
Loving the switch tray! Something I may do when I upgrade the megasquirt in my burgundy car.
Looking good Mark, I like the steering wheel mod :)
I have more suspension travel, which influences bumpsteer pretty heavily! I suspect those high rate coilovers keep things pretty flat.
Thank on the switch tray! One of the few items which didn't take too long...
Thanks Bob. I know I saw in some site a few years back and just happend to do a quick search a couple weeks ago and found one on eBay. It needs a good cleaning and the toe needs to be reset to center the wheel, but it finally feels right!
It does move under it's own power! The new 3" exhaust past the test of my driveway approach, no sing! First time ever the car hasn't dragged getting in and out of the drive way.
There are more things to work on. The tune needs some work, the fuel gauge just quit, the a/c has to be recharged, an alignment, as well as a few cosmetic things, but here's how it looks out of the garage!
It's about a year later than expected, but it really was taking the elephant all in one bite. There have hundreds of man hours just since December.
Looks Great Mark !!
Looks great, awesome even.
Those rear tires are awesome!! Love the car :D
WOW!
Cannot wait to see this again in July!
Dang Mark
That bird looks awesome...I really like the SC steering wheel...does the cruise work?
Did u get that tune worked out?
Travis
Looks great! I have the same steering wheel in mine.
Looks awesome!
Thanks guys! Appreciate the support.
Travis:
I haven't been able to confirm the cruise buttons all work yet, but based on other folks who've put them Fox Bodied cars, it shouldn't be a problem.
The tune isn't where it needs to be, but the Quarterhorse is now communicating with the base CPU. Blip the throttle, and the mixture richens up and the idle now floats around 15.2. Lean but not crazy. Made two changes: Reseated the piggyback computer, ensuring the pins aligned properly (there is a little "wiggle room") and plugged in the rotary switch cable. All the goofy issues I was experiencing seem to be resolved. Next step is to hook up the laptop and see if it'll datalog now.
I drove it a couple miles & got a little lean surge at cruise, but not severe, but it needs to be addressed. People hear it way before they see it! Their heads are turning with a look of WTF?
First impressions (comparing to the last itteration): Smoother idle, easy & light clutch take up (can engage it at idle with no stumble or grabbing). Exhaust doesn't seem louder. No rattles (yet...). Thrilled about the exhaust clearing the driveway (the lip on the front bumper still hits, but I'll be cutting that off and putting on a Mach 1 chin spoiler; it's lower but it flexes...). Brake pads need to be bedded (doesn't really want to stop yet). Able to turn full lock without any rubbing (this was an issue with the last setup, particularly when turning to get in & out of my driveway). Boost comes in MUCH earlier. The old setup needed to see ~2,800 RPM to get positive pressure, this one seems to start as low as 1,500 RPM, so it should be available at cruise in any gear.
I expect to find a few "bugs" over the next few weeks. The goal is to attend a car show on June 2nd (Kevin Line, a member here, has organized an event in Plymouth that day). If everything goes well there, the agenda is full for car events for the summer!
looks good, very cool mods
Wow...Mark progress for sure...I believe u will like QH when u get into it more.
Lots of support for it.
With boost like that...heck of a street machine.
Travis
Looking good Mark.
I'm working on my turbo car.
Hope to have the rotating assy back from balancing by the weekend
Hey fast cat...what happened to your engine?....sorry for the hijack
Travis
It looks awesome :)! I even like the FMS grill, which I think doesn't always look good. I love the fact that it looks almost stock. It's got a great sleeper vibe to it.
The cruise buttons should work fine. Mine did.
Thanks! I've been pleased to have recieved a couple positive comments on the grill. They commonly don't get much love!
It's kinda strange how the car has an aggressive look with the hood closed, but raise it up and all you see is a big nose!
Thanks Bryan, Good to hear.
Is it possible to have it ready for the rollers by the first week in July?
Yes, bumpsteer minimization makes a huge difference in how the car behaves over road irregularities (assuming your car has enough travel to make it matter ;))
I never corrected for bumpsteer on my T-bird and it shows when I go over certain bumps. We did the bumpsteer on my friend's '95 Mustang a few years ago and got it down to near 0. Rides like stock. I found plotting the stack height vs. deflection height in Excel made the process much quicker. Add a trendline to find 0! Took 3-4 tries on one side and I think 2 on the other.
Our old baja car (http://"http://eng.auburn.edu/organizations/baja/images/baja-car-2012.jpg") had terrible bumpsteer due to a design error. There was one downhill on our practice track that had an hump offset at ~30 degrees. The car would go over it and veer right then left 2-3 feet while the steering wheel never moved! Talk about a pucker moment!
PS I'm loving the build! Look forward to seeing it in KY
Now THAT'S a sweet ride! I can see what you do with your time! Obviously, not just sitting behind a computer. I really enjoy posts like this one where you let your work speak for itself. It's a beauty!
turbotrav: I hurt a head/gasket back in Oct of 2011. Short version. I pulled the motor to fix it and ended up upgrading the
rotating assy,roll bar to a 8.50 ET certified cage,install a parachute and replace all factory wiring with a aftermarket 18 circut
wiring kit
Mark: Will be putting the short block together next week
So I hope she will be up and running very soon
Need to have some track time by July
iv farted around you tube and seen some vids .........you got a nice car man
That color is amazing! Love the ride height on it too! Amazing!
Can't wait for more pictures! I'm thinking about my bird every day now when I'm in China for work :P
By the way, I can't really find any used 4.25" pulleys so if you still have your 4" I might be interested in it! Send a PM if you still have it :)
Thanks! I sent you a PM on the pulley.
Took the car out to it's first showing (thanks to Kevin's invite!). Things went well, till the ride home. Made it home with the fuel pump cutting out intermitently (this has been a nagging issue since first start up).
Good news on two points: Made into the garage before it quit completely and the other, more importantly: It's finally failed (so I can trouble shoot it once and for all!).
I always love when something on the car waits to fail till you get home. It's like the car doesn't want to end up on a flat bed.
Hey Mark
Sorry to hear about the pump...but you suspected that could be a possible problem.
Its only time and money... ;-)
Travis
Don't think it'll be much on the money end (at this point...), it's the time that's killing me! I suspect it'll be something simple: a ground, maybe the inertia switch. It's clearly an open. Just have to locate it.
Be happy mate, atleast you aint stuck in communist china with a broken car back home ;)
Fixed two issues today for just about $110. Took care of the lack of fuel pressure and the fuel gauge! Wasn't too tough. Had to chase out for stuff twice, the first one cost me $20 and fixed the fuel pressure. The second trip was just under $90 and it fixed the fuel gauge.
All it took was 24.5 gallons of 93 octane (@4.49 per gallon)! 4.5 gallons in a can, added to the tank and it fired instantly, and then drove the car to get it filled up. Yup, feel like a dumbass.
As I've been sorting out various issues, I had added 5 gallons of fuel twice. Made the assumption, that the fuel gauge wasn't working, as the gauge didn't budge either time I added fuel...
Apparently ~30' of -8an fuel line & aftermarket fuel rails push the fuel capacity by another 2.5 gallons.
Thankfully it ran out pulling in the garage.
It's developed an oil leak, which may keep it from making any road trip year. Will need some dye to track this one.
Didnt the bird have a major oil leak last year?
Travis
Yup, the first assembly, oil was puking out when I primed the engine. Pulled the engine, replaced the rear main, put a new pan on it, installed support rails on the pan to ensure the pan didn't get tweaked.
Round three: The back on the intake did not seal on initial start up, but that was a simple fix. After that it idled for hours with no sign of a leak...
It leaks under pressure. It pushed out a quart in ~80 miles. Made a hell of mess under the car!
Can't say this is a smoking gun, but there was no leak until I changed the oil & put in synthetic. It's possible something else let go or failed.
I'll search out some oil dye, which shows up with black light. That'll help identify where it's coming from, but the trans, clutch & block plate will need to be pulled as a starting point to see anything.
The dual clutch was hell to install. Could only mate the engine to the trans with them both out on the floor (found that out after putting the engine in...). I'll pick up a 10 spline input shaft, to make the process easier, the plastic splined guide tool that came with the clutch assembly must have a slight variance, which prevents the trans input shaft from sliding into the clutch disc's.
I took it to a car show in Livonia on Sunday. It got a lot of attention! Though I'm getting pretty weary of working on the "details", it did give me some encouragement!
A punch in the balls would be easier to get over!
Engine & trans are out. Cleaned the back of the engine and then tilted it tlo flood the back of the engine with oil, looking for a clear sign of the leak. This revealed the rear main as the culprit! The seal itself looks fine, there are no nicks or problem areas visible on the seal or the crankshaft.
I'll call the guys at the machine shop to see if they can offer some insight. If it's possible to get this thing to seal (we'll check it the same way, once it's back together), with the help of my friend Mike, we plan to thrash and get it back together by the weekend.
You could try one of those speedysleeve's. Its pretty much a repair kit for the crank to repair the wear grooves in the sealing surface. However, you probably have a brand new crank which should've been fine. Just a thought
Good thought though! It is a new crank and it looks spotless. I've ordered the Fel-Pro "high pressure" two piece seal and it'll be here tomorrow. I'll offset the seal ~1/2", ensuring the cap and the block lock together. Once it's assembled, we'll fill it full of oil and flood the seal area again, by tilting the engine. If it leaks, I'll be clueless on how to fix it, but at least I won't have to pull it again!
If it leaks again try a 1 piece seal. Sucks that youve had to year that beauty apart so many times. Hope youre leakage issue gets resolved soon
Thanks. On the plus side, we are beginning to getting pretty good at the R&R!
I've checked into the 1 piece option this morning. The block would need to be machined to adapt it. Cross that bridge if I come to it.
you are siliconing the rear main bearing cap right? I know that has made lots of people scratch their heads after multiple rear main changes.
Yup, it wasn't leaking were the cap joins the block. Did the normal install tricks..., thought we had it licked the last time around. The HP seal will be here tomorrow and we'll offset it and see if takes care of it.
Good luck Mark....
May the force be with you... :)
Travis
Oil leaks suck. Hopefully this fixes it :).
Put it back together last night.
Offset the seal, put RTV on the cap, installed studs for the pan & used pan rails, and then put two bottles of dye into the oil to make any leak would be easily visible with the black light. Hung it up to flood the seal for ~40 minutes. No leaks.
Reinstallation begins this afternoon.
The moral of the story: On any rebuild, fill the crankcase full of oil, install the crank bolts and hang the engine at an angle to flood the rear main seal, BEFORE putting the engine in!
Painful lesson in this case, but pain creates memories of what to avoid...
A side note on the studs for the oil pan: Canton sell them for $10 though Summit. They are a really cheap way to help seal an oil pan.
Sweet...Mark....Success...
Travis
As of last night, the engine & trans are in and the headers are on. 6 hours. The knowledge gleaned from the last two pulls greatly sped up the process.
The 1 3/4 Hooker Super Comp headers are a two man job (they're 3 pieces each). One guy has to hold up top, while the other crawls under the car and fits the tubes in place. Two other tricks to get them to bolt up. Only use 3/4" bolts, anything longer binds on the tubes & pen 15s the bolts for a cross thread. Tighten each bolt a little across the face of the . Pull one in too far and the rest of the bolts bind on the tubes, creating the potential for crossing the threads. Finally, if the bolts still bind, the tubes have to be clearanced. The first time I put these on, it took three days!
The trans when in from underneath with little issue this time. Using an actual input shaft(as opposed to the plastic alignment tool provided in the clutch kit) to align the dual clutch discs and creating some 3" alignment dowels from bolts, made the job much easier.
Now to find the time to do the easy stuff.
Mark
I remember those big ass Long tubes....now I dont feel so bad about having to remove my 3.5" DP...I need to remove passenger header, turbo, then take the DP out from the bottom...its a super packaging problem. Better be worth it...
Travis