Ha.
I've got an idea. I've got a couple of 351w blocks, cranks, rotating assembly in my bin 'o parts....
I want to find a set of Cleveland heads from a 351m/400...have the stuff machined, and build a 351 Clevor. Put it in a Mustang. Get a Boss 351 graphic for the hood.
Go have fun with it.
Whattya think? I've got everything but the Cleveland heads and the adapters for the intake manifold....:hick:
351/400m doesn't have the cleveland heads on it. There is also 2 versions of the cleveland head a 2V and a 4V head.
Quote Originally Posted by some website
The M designation is commonly referred to “Modified”, and is derived from the use of both "Cleveland" (block, heads) and "Windsor" (crankshaft) components in the same engine, a modification for the parts' intended application, so to speak.
That's what I was always led to believe also. :)
Herb, your door stuff will ship out tomorrow or the day after :)
( i know, i know...about effin' time) lol
Thanks. :D
modified heads are like the stepchild heads of clevland heads.. it's a big upgrade to drop C heads on a modified bottom end, especially the aussie C heads
Are they even worse than the 2V heads? Seems like they would be way ahead of stock 5.0 heads...lol.
i believe they are.. from my understanding, they're basically like E6 heads compared to GT40-P's, in terms of M vs C2V's
The modified heads are good boat anchors. I would encourage you to do some more research before spending any money. Either of the C heads are improvement over the M. The M motors came from trying to meet the government emissions requirements. :D
modifieds are my favorite BBF's.. they're major underdogs.. i miss my 400 :(
Why not buy a complete 351C? Just curious. :D
a clevor brings out the best in both motors
The reason to build a clevor is the windsor short-block is stronger and can be stroked more. A M head is basically a C "BUT" they have huge EGR ports the rap around the exhaust guide which kills flow. The best head for a clevor (in my opinion) are the ausi 2V heads. They have 2V ports and closed chambers. I would say 4V heads but they're too big for a street motor.
I say drop that idea and finish what you've already started. Get the Bird done for s sake.
i say go for it, since you're already planning on finishing your stang for this year and completely redoing the bird.. 2V heads pop up on CL all the time around here
This is not much more than a what-if scenario....but if I find a set of C 2v heads...I'll snap 'em up.
I probably wouldn't use M heads since the egr kind of defeats the whole purpose.
Someday I'll assemble a 351 Clevor, but not anytime in the very near future. :)
As far as the 'Bird, I'm totally committed to stripping it and cleaning, blasting and painting every piece and part that I can take off. It's not a daily, nor does it need to be, and I have plenty of room as soon as I at least get the harnesses and 5.0 swapped inito the Stang. Meanwhile, the other 5.0HO I have on the stand that is to become my GT40P build...has some issues. See my Sport thread for details/pics of that...
I'm going to swap the Stang 5.0 that's currently in the Sport now into the Mustang here in the next couple of weeks, but it's going in with NO mods. Just as-is. I'm going to use my 5.0 bell, but keep the 2.3 T5 since my 5.0's transmission has some issues and needs gone through and whatnot.
I'll probably use the Stang as my daily till it gets cold this fall, then switch back to the truck. All it needs at this point is a steering rack and tail light lens and it's cosmetically acceptable. (as much as a Fox Stang can be considered acceptable lol)
who were you looking into for the intake spacer? price motorsports? i hear a lot of good things about them
Yeah, I found a few good words about their stuff on another thread. Seems ok to me lol.
there's also the option of running a boss 302 intake.. you would just have to get the intake drilled to run it EFI with a 4 barrel TB or an elbow with a single blade TB
Or buy the fuel injected clevor intake trickflow came out with. Looks just like a regular 5.0 injected intake. You will have more money into the carbed intake, pistons and machine work though. You would be better off with aftermarket sbf heads and rebuilt or stroked motor.
trickflow made a clevor FI intake? this i need to see! i hope it doesn't look like the typical ugly TF intakes..
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51600114/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51600114/")
i saw it.. and i :barf: ed lol
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51611118/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TFS-51611118/")
A boosted, fuel injected, cleveland is just stinking exciting! lol
I personally have never read or experienced anything wrong with the Clevelands the way they came, IMO they were very durable straight from the factory!
But to be honest have never read or heard about putting cleveland heads on a windsor, it does sound interesting. I have read about building a Boss 302 with the 4V heads though, and actually have everything to build one except the intake.
Good luck finding one. I haven't found an aftermarket company that makes one yet. I like to build a boss 302 with aussie 2Vs.
WHAT!? just hold tight there a minute son..
here's 1!! apparently, they're disappearing.. i know when i was looking at building a 8.2" dart block clevor, i was finding a few on summit, jegs and SM
and this 1's a classic!! still wrapped in 1972 newspaper lmao
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Garage-Sale-Offenhauser-302-Boss-Turbo-Thrust-Power-Port-Manifold-Base-Only,56866.html
Must remember there are 2 versions of the 4v head. One is open chamber and the other is closed chamber. The closed chamber are the ones found on the Boss engines. Good luck finding those. Aussie 2V heads are the best of them. Don't know why anyone would go through the trouble and expense of putting any of these on a windsor. Today's aftermarket heads flow just as well. Or, Explorer heads for that matter. Anybody try a 351 with Explorer heads?
that's what my 408 that's going into the S10 has.. putting them on a stock 351w really makes a big difference, provided you open the exhaust ports up a bit
Going into the S10? What's wrong with U?!! PLEASE tell me a full roll cage is planned for that build!
I had considered this notion....if I wasn't dead set on EFI, It's probably have been done by now since I have basically 2 sets of 351w longblock-worth of parts...
I want efi though, and I know it can be done, 1Sick88Tbird did it with some modification of factory stuff...but I don't have the skills and equipment to pull such a stunt.
As far as the 351 Clevor idea...how often do you encounter such a setup? lol
Makes me wonder what would make a better street setup, the Clevor headed 351, or a 351w with GT40Ps and a Lightning lower/Explorer upper..assuming cam and injectors remain consistent...
no lol
either way, it'd be 1 mean 351 with the right cam/intake/injector combo.. but i still vote clevor lol if you want to spend some big monies, buy aftermarket aluminum clevland heads.. they flow better than most aftermarket windsor heads
351W with GT40 heads = F-150 Lighting engine.
a 351w with P heads isn't a lightening motor, though lol.. different combustion chambers, different flow numbers, plug angle etc etc.. lol
I didnt say P heads, I said GT40s. The Lighting motor came out before the P heads, remember. I had a set, Gt40s with 1/2" head bolt holes which only came on 351Ws, remember. LOL. You can right me off if you want to but I did build engines for a living, and yes I have built a Lighting motor which I got my GT40 "non P" heads. ;) Customer bought Windor sr. heads and give me his old heads for a discount (which were off a 93 lightning).
Research, research, research!!! LOL!
i know, but the convo was on P heads lol a horse of a different color
The P heads would be a miniscule difference on an otherwise stock Lightning 351w....and yes, I do know my way around them, helped my friend Steve work on his a bit. Man, that was a sweet truck.
The P head's chambers are not more than 6 cc less than GT40, and the exh. valve is smaller, same size as an E7...but the "smoother" exh port makes up for that.
Looking at the pics of the TF intakes linked above....aren't those the same port style as the stock 351w intake?
Of course, no way in hell a stock truck upper will fit under a Tbird hood..
On a completely unrelated note, some feller stopped by Sunday...wanted to know if I'd buy a set of worked over E6 heads off of him for 200 bucks...made him a little mad when I said I've sped better heads than those...
LMAO :rollin: hahahahah.. for $200 you could grab a set of P heads, drop them on and be better off from the get-go lmao
Who works over E6 heads? :screwy:
I paid 67 bucks for both of my P heads...lol
Apparently the crack head who thought I was dumb....all this after telling him I had a set of P's which are arguably the best factory 5.0 iron head...some people..lol
The 351N heads were the best factory cast iron heads ford made. I dont think they count though, they never came on a production vehicle. They used to run them on circle track cars until they outlawed them, they also ran them in factory drag cars in the late 80s to early 90s. My old boss has a set but he wont come off them. They have 195cc intake runners and 78cc exhaust runners with 2.02" intake and 1.60" exhaust valves. They pretty cheap too, a couple years ago they were $375 bare.
if they didn't come on a production car, they definitely don't count.. P heads are still on top, yaaaay lol
We personaly build alot of cleavlands and my dads motor in his stang clevor with a world manowar block bored and stroked to 454. Anyways if i where you i would look into chi there a business in austrailia they make alot of cleveland parts because they where in production there long after production for them stoped here in the u.s they have a carbed intake for a clevor. the reason they work so much beter than the conventional inline windsor head is not how much they flow but the canted valves which means there angled for more effeciant combustion.
BUT technically, they're made by Ford. The did count with the old battle of the mustangs back in the day.
Hey Beau, any luck with those parts?
FRPP are made by ford, too :p
I checked out that chiheads.com.au website. Love those intakes and heads !!
WHOA.. 228cc 4V heads
If you look at the last couple years of enginemasters the winning combination is usualy a cleavland with those chi heads.