I was just arriving at work when I noticed smoke out the back. I creeped it into the parking lot and oil was pouring out from the rear of the motor somewhere. It looked to be mostly the drivers side, but was nearly the width of the engine bay. The temp never went above 185 so I hope I am good. At lunch I went to inspect it more closely and I saw some clearish liquid on the downpipe in addition to the oil. I swiped it and it was really greasy.....uh-oh. Sure enough, the radiator was empty. There goes my DD for awhile.:toilet:
That sucks man. What happened? Too much boost, timing, bad tank of gas?
Travis
Well welcome to the 2.3 world of FORD engines. TFI MODULES AND HEAD GASKETS are the norm. But normally they dont leak oil unless the back portion of the gasket blew out which is rare. Normally they blow through cylinder 3&4. But pull it and see what gives. I have seen them blow in strange ways. Tip do not use a 1035 Fel Pro. Use the 8993
The only 8993 I ever used blew out just the way he describes. Never done that EVER with a 1035. I've blown my fair share of 1035's and know when a gasket can't take what I give it. 29psi on pump gas tends to kill gaskets. I killed that 8993 on 20psi
When it comes to HG's on 2.3T i suggest two ways. If you are going to keep the car pretty stock. You can use the 8993. If you are really looking to make some power, I believe the 1035 us worth the extra money. Along with new head bolts.
Travis
i'm beginning to wonder what the max psi is going to be for my setup on pumpgas (premium).. lol i wanted to hit around 27-28
You Know it is strange but here is my take on the gasket. In the past years of building 2.3 fords i used many 1035 units with good results. BUT the deck and head has to be dead nuts, The 1035 is not very forgiving when it comes to a rough deck or head. The 8993 is i think the best choice for anything around 20-22 LBS. Once you exceed that you are going to have to go with a 1035. reason being the O ring setup in the 1035 seems to seal better with high boost. But i think you are correct FORD GUY on you post but fuzzy on why, I have dun a great deal of work with the 2.3 and it has an inherent crowning problem no matter what gasket you use. And milling the head just amplifies the situation. To the best of my experience with the little mill the gasket at higher boost 1035 will last you app 2-3 years depending on how many miles are put on it. And the flatness of the block and head. The 8993 is best for a rough stock block and will normally last a tad longer because ti is forgiving on block prep. I have also found a cometic gasket is also very good. Either way the engine has to be tuned and kept from running hot. Other wise it will crown and blow the gasket. Yes i have seen the back of the head blow out OIL but that is normally a deck or head flatness issue. But their is no rime or reason where the gasket will fail as you so correctly point out. Thank You
Shadow that is a c for any 2.3 head and gasket. In my experience once you exceed the magic number of 20-22 the gasket is in grave danger because of crowning. Keep it on the rich side if possible and make sure it never runs hot. That is your best insurance against failure. But it will eventually will fail unless the motor is completely stock. Thanks
completely stock, other than the RR and SC34 with a front mount and 3" dp to 2-1/2 duals
No what i mean is Boost wise. The boost is the killer. Ans also detonation of course!!
well you didn't specify lol
With premium....I wouldn't run any more than 18-20psi max. If you want more boost you will need more octane, your choice on how you do it.
Travis
I don't remember having problems till I was over 25psi. I did 5 headgaskets in one summer running 93 octane at 28psi. Haven't had any problems since I started running a 50/50 mix of 93 and 110, and has run up to 32psi on that. Setup on my car is homeported iron head and intake, custom twin scroll header with twin tial wastegates, HX35 turbo, boport 1.9 cam and springs, 85# injectors, Bamafuel megasquirt MS1. It made 349whp/398wtq at 28psi on 93 octane on a mustang dyno with a lousy tune.
so maybe 24psi on the street and 28 at the track with a fuel mix..
NOW.. have any of you guys tried messing with a meth kit with higher boost and premium? i assume it would take care of the detonation issues
dang, I forgot about this thread. I had the car towed back home but havent had tme to loosed a bolt yet. (honey-do list) I cant think of anything else that would leak oil and water other than a head gasket. It was blowing a weird colored smoke...not white or blue...kinda grey and not very thick. i didnt notice a power loss, but then again I eased it into the parking lot. It does have 269K, so god knows what let go!
I was/am still using the water/meth injection using winter blend washer fluid. It really didn't help that much.
not a whole lot, but any little bit should help
what do you think of 24 on the street on premium, never really 'beating' on it (as in i don't race retards in hondas at every light) and 28 at the track with 110 or higher?
Tom is right with where the gaskets blow at! I have proof!!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/quicksilver_024/086-1.jpg)
Shouldn't be a problem with the right tune, and a good intercooler as long as its still in the efficiency range of the turbo too. Don't need it making a bunch of hot air to create detonation.
i'm eyeing up a big'in (intercooler).. measures 30x14x3, so i have to see if i can make some room for it.. once i get everything on and the way i want it, i plan on taking it to get it tuned.. until then, i plan on keeping it at a respectable 22psi
That is classic 2.3 gasket failure. That shows classic CROWNING. I had a box full of those gaskets at one time in the shop. Blowing from the rear number 4 is normally surface issues and flatness.
Street driven at 24 IFFY with 93. But it has been dun. All depends on the tune heat soak block and head flatness detonation or should i say lack of ETC. But i have proven that all around the best seems to be between 20-22 in my experiance. That gives you a good safety margin. But what the heck. Just my observation on the issue and Boost i have ran on street driven 2.3 fords. Good luck.
:burnout:
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/TCMOTOR101.jpg)
(http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt88/tomrenzo/TCMOTOR099.jpg)
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-3.jpg)
I pulled the head today and the gasket is fine. In fact the block has nearly zero wear and the valve cover looks like its been tanked it's so clean. The crank spins freely...no noise or grinding, So I dont know WTH is wrong. The block is wet near the oil sender/oil filter area. I am hoping it has something to do with the filter adapter since I lost water AND oil.
Well i was suspecting you wold not find a blown gasket in that area. I have only seen a few do that. Did you do any tests prior to tearing it down?? I never assume anything so i normally do extensive pretesting before tear down. Why do you run the filter adapter. Just curious. Mine is long gone and i use an FL1. Better tear the block apart and check the block for cracks. Also check the deck and head surface for flatness. Especially on cyl number 4. Good luck
I've seen the oil feed line for the turbo crack at the sender adapter on the head, but don't know why your radiator would be empty if that happened. I don't know if blowing the turbo would feed water into the cartridge into the exhaust or not though either. I'm kinda surprised that the head gasket wasn't blown though. The oil cooler adapter might be the source though. However, I can't remember right off hand, but I don't think the water could leak out of it unless a hose loosened up or the cooler failed which would give you a milkshake in the engine.
Several of the water jacket cutouts on the gasket were completely gummed up, but other than that? I dont think it's the block as the water jackets are still full. You think it blew a turbo? It wasnt under boost when it let go, and their isnt any oil on that side. I I should have done a compression check, but I assumed the worst. LOL I will pull that oil cooler off and check it out. The car came with it so I've never messed with it. Can you remove that and get rid of the water lines? Never even thought to do that. There isnt enough oil to register on the dipstick, so I will have to pull the plug and see what I have.
I was just throwing out ideas. The oil cooler is probably your best shot then. I still run that oil cooler on all of my cars. My burgundy one because the oil gets alot of heat from the holset turbo, and my autox car to do the same pretty much. My burgundy one always seemed to get alot less oil pressure after heatsoaking at an autox.
545 you are better off using an oil to air setup. Those stock coolers are pretty rugged but i had 2 of them fail and take out a bottom end. So i dont run them any more. Tests have shown they do relatively nothing. Even the SYTY guys eliminate them on the TYPHOONS. I also do not run one on my LT1. We have had no issues whatsoever with out them. But if you feel they help just keep up with your setup. Thanks
I also noticed the muck around the water holes in his gasket. He definitely had something let go.
Just a question??? Do you really think the cooler does work. Just curious and appreciate feedback Thanks Again
I was toying with running the lines to the radiator like on the GM cars. You know one side for the auto and the other side is for the oil cooler. (blazer setup ETC) Reason being the radiator tanks are much cooler than where the TC gets the water to cool the oil. The TC gets the coolant from a place in my view that is way to HOT. Just a thought
I pulled the oil cooler adapter off and I dont see anything. The head is super clean, but the 1,2,and 3 intake manifold runners have a small amount of oil in them. Not sure how the head can be so clean, but the intake gets so nasty. I will try a couple other things first, but I bet I end up yanking the motor out.
that's actually a pretty good thought, if you ask me.. run the oil feed line to the rad tank, then to the turbo.. hmm.. and maybe an external trans cooler inbetween? i think that would keep the turbo pretty happy
My autox car runs a steady 175* but I am actually more worried about getting the oil up to temp before racing starts since I run 15w40 oil. I would rather not loose an aux shaft. I have an oil temp gauge and only once has it started reading anything above 140, but that sensor wasn't in the pan at that point. It will be this year. When I have one fail, then I will look to something else. Why change what works IMO.
it is hard to argue with factory technology sometimes.
That said, I am gonna part the car out regardless of the motor issue. I need $$$$ to get my main car going. I hate doing it, but I gots to get the black car done.
545 i would suggest using my DIZZY mod to increase you aux shaft longevity. I hear what you are saying. I also use 15-40. But now the ZINC is gone from it so i switched off to 10-30 HONDA Motorcycle oil that has the additive or GM EOS with 10-30 conventional.
:burnout:
WHAT?! nooooooo! just fix it and sell it.. or sell it as is.. don't let another decent car find it's way to the crusher!
hmm.. the honda bike oil does have some kind of zinc-like additive.. so does gear saver.. i never even thought of this.. time to buy new sliders! LOL
The new engine has a little slot cut out of the rear bearing for the aux shaft to spray oil on the gear. The oil we have at the shop still has zinc in it(at least thats what I was told).