General => Lounge => Topic started by: lakenheath24 on February 25, 2012, 10:32:54 AM
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 25, 2012, 10:32:54 AM
My neighbor is a great kid, but is clueless about cars. This is OK though as he is a computer whiz. However, he came over yesterday to ask my opinion on his brakes. Seems the local garage has been preying on him. They wanted over $300 to swap front rotors(pads were good). They already soaked him for $700 with such classics as changing power steering fluid, and some other useless stuff, but the kicker was when they pulled the plugs, put a q-tip in and OMG your engine is filthy, for $70 we will clean it out. He didnt have the money and asked what he should do. I told him to go to Autozone and get the rotors(they were bad to my surprise). I showed him what to do and we had them both done in 45 minutes. Total cost= $45, and Dude was beside himself for doing something mechanical. He didnt even know which way the wheel went back on, and had the lug nuts on backwards....LOL. Reminded me of myself looooong ago.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: bryan163 on February 25, 2012, 10:48:01 AM
I've been teaching my girlfriend and sister about cars over the last year. We've done all kinds of maintenance and performance stuff and they are loving it. This year they will both be accompanying me to the track :) It is a good feeling to teach others.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Bob on February 25, 2012, 11:08:15 AM
My co-worker got hosed at Midas this month.. They charged him $1300 for front brakes and rotors, oil change, inspection, and motor mount, not oem parts either. I called the local Honda dealer for an estimate they quoted $1050 out the door. I went to autozone.com and the parts totaled $140. Midas charged him $349 for a $25 motor mount and the dealer cost on the mount was $125!! I told him next time call me
Its sad but people are getting robbed everyday
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Beau on February 25, 2012, 11:29:39 AM
It's up to people like us to try save someone else from getting ass-raped by the mechanics that charge prices like that. C'mon...it isn't like it's a ed Ferrari.
Besides, letting someone help, AND learn something about a mechanical object is a big thing, to both myself and them.
Here's an example: late last summer, some friends of mine had a Buick park Avenue...the AC compressor locked up, and all they could afford was the eliminator pulley kit for it. So they bring the car over, and we block it up, and I show him what various parts are, their functions, etc, as I'm changing the AC out for the pulley eliminator kit. Dude was so grateful, he asked what I needed for the labor. I replied that I didn't need money, but I would take a soda. He comes back an hour later with a case each of mountain dew and dr pepper.... I told him and his woman friend that if they ever needed stuff like brakes, oil changes, new belt, etc, to come to me.
I changed a starter for a co-worker on her F series one night after work in Wal mart's parking lot, she asked me what I wanted for doing the swap...told her to pay me whatever she thought it was worth...made 40 bucks. I just can't stand to someone pay a lot of hard earned money for outrageous labor, let alone parts that have been marked up 45% or more. Flat me off.
But...shops, dealerships and the like, I imagine they have a good bit of liability insurance to carry....what if they f*ck up on a job, and have to buy a feller a new engine? So, it's the flip side of the coin.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 25, 2012, 01:15:34 PM
Quote from: Bob;381833
MMidas charged him $349 for a $25 motor mount and the dealer cost on the mount was $125!! I told him next time call me
Its sad but people are getting robbed everyday
HOLY !!!! i'd put midas out of business if i went back to OEM repair.. i don't mark up ANY prices on parts.. (except junkyard parts, but only by a small ammount to cover gas, $2 it costs to get in the gate and about $5 extra for my time).. but midas? $349?! your co-worker should go to the press with that garbage.. midas would be singing a new tune REAL quick, once it gets out that they're literally robbing people
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 25, 2012, 08:24:30 PM
exactly, I was happy to help a neighbor out. I get that garages need to make a buck, but some stuff is just criminal.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 25, 2012, 09:21:33 PM
they probably do that because midas needs such a huge overhead.. but that's still ridiculous
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 25, 2012, 09:47:29 PM
Labor rates have doubled over the past 10 years. Mechanics pay has stayed the same. Mechanics are encouraged to upsell useless services. The shops are the ones to blame. They hike up the prices on parts to make even more. This is part of the reason I am not in the buisness anymore. I can not do this to people. A buddy of mine is still in the buisness, and has started to do work on the side. He charges reasonable rates and only nessesary repairs. Makes more money on the side than he does at work.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 25, 2012, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: Chrome;381939
A buddy of mine is still in the buisness, and has started to do work on the side. He charges reasonable rates and only nessesary repairs. Makes more money on the side than he does at work.
that's how i got started.. eventually it gets to the point where you have less going on at work, more going on at home and it only makes sense to quit and do your own thing
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: TOM Renzo on February 25, 2012, 10:21:44 PM
I know what you mean but as a shop i have a HUGE OVERHEAD
Insurance Electric salaries local taxes personal property taxes equipment leases so on and so forth. We have a set hour rate and my techs make good money. We can add to the cost of parts by 30% as is normal in the business. With that we are fair and dont sell product the customer does not need. Anyone in business will know this instantly. As a business owner we are allowed to make MONEY. But on the other hand we dont CHEAT CUSTOMERS. Our taxes and utility's including insurance has tripled in the last ten years. We have no choice in the matter to charge higher rates. We beat the dealers hands down. But we also have compassion for people that are hurting or lost their jobs. We do some community work for my church for people that have hard times. Dont judge a business for charging fair prices and dont compare a person that moonlights without insurance and liability insurance to cover his work. But helping out a kid that clearly was ripped off is great. I would do the same thing. I saw a bill the other day from my SNAP ON GUY. They replaced his starter and charged him 1300 BUCKS. I guess the shop got some pay back!!!!! That was a rip off but he paid the bill and was happy. So who can figure!!!
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 25, 2012, 10:26:44 PM
JESUS.. $1300?! they must have really had it out for the snap-on guy LOL
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: TOM Renzo on February 25, 2012, 10:33:59 PM
Shadow i read the bill. It was outrageous
14 Dollars for 2 brown wizzer discs 450 for a reman starter (diesel) 300 labor to swap it out 200 for rewiring ( they changed the terminal on the crank lead and 30 bucks for hazmat And a few other goodies.
By the way the starter was not the trouble. 4 hours later he called us and was stuck on the road. His ignition switch was messed up. He explained to me the truck had an intermittent no start. Turned out to be a bad ignition switch.
And a few other goodies. But i guess they figured paying 150 bucks for a 3/8 ratchet is a rip off as well. So their is the issue at hand i guess.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on February 25, 2012, 10:38:37 PM
Ive seen some of this first hand in the last couple weeks. One of my buddys runs his own shop, had an S10 come in with no heat and the owner had it diagnosed at another shop that had done the brake job, right before the heat quit. The owner bought a heater core and hired my buddy to install it, so he did. Put everything back together and still no heat. So he looked deeper, pulled the obvious thermostat to find it had been cut with a side cutters. Put the replacement stat in and he had heat and no over heating. To us it was obvious who did it and why. (http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu112/highraven1999/2012-02-11_20-32-28_907.jpg)
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: TOM Renzo on February 25, 2012, 10:42:46 PM
Rule number one
NEVER EVER TRUST ANOTHER MECHANICS DIAGNOSIS. I learned that when i was a young man,People lie and cheat like HELL.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Tbird-fanatic on February 25, 2012, 10:52:37 PM
Yep and that pic I posted is proof why not to trust another one. Problem here is we grew up dealing with that shop and never heard or seen anything like that done there. Thats the only reason he trusted thier diagnosis.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Dan B. on February 25, 2012, 10:52:59 PM
I'm very blessed to have a well stocked and spacious personal garage.....2500sq ft, twin post lift, undercar lift, tons of tools, hydraulic press, drill press, torches, three welders, etc, etc. I do a lot of side work for free on vehicles belonging to family and friends. They will call me all the time saying what they need and what the local shop wants to make the repair. To this day I have not asked for a penny to cover heat or electricity...but will usually get a can full of kerosene dropped off, a box of cut off wheels, spool of welding wire, etc. The neighbor lets me cut all the firewood I want for free! That alone is worth it's weight in gold!
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: TOM Renzo on February 25, 2012, 11:12:25 PM
Dan payment is a choice issue as you so correctly point out. As a business owner in a way you choose to barter and that is great. But be careful!!! When doing side work. It can get ugly and just cover the bases like 100%. The public can get NUTTY even if they are old friends and neighbors. Just be cautious. I commend yo for being a good guy and that is great. I have a high school senior in auto Tech that works after school. The kid is in heaven at the shop. To bad i cant talk him in to becomming a dentist and make boat loads of money. Just messing around. But it is fascinating to me how some youngins are just naturally mechanically inclined and love fixing cars
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 25, 2012, 11:19:09 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;381951
I know what you mean but as a shop i have a HUGE OVERHEAD
Insurance Electric salaries local taxes personal property taxes equipment leases so on and so forth. We have a set hour rate and my techs make good money. We can add to the cost of parts by 30% as is normal in the business. With that we are fair and dont sell product the customer does not need. Anyone in business will know this instantly. As a business owner we are allowed to make MONEY. But on the other hand we dont CHEAT CUSTOMERS. Our taxes and utility's including insurance has tripled in the last ten years. We have no choice in the matter to charge higher rates. We beat the dealers hands down. But we also have compassion for people that are hurting or lost their jobs. We do some community work for my church for people that have hard times. Dont judge a business for charging fair prices and dont compare a person that moonlights without insurance and liability insurance to cover his work. But helping out a kid that clearly was ripped off is great. I would do the same thing. I saw a bill the other day from my SNAP ON GUY. They replaced his starter and charged him 1300 BUCKS. I guess the shop got some pay back!!!!! That was a rip off but he paid the bill and was happy. So who can figure!!!
Not blaming all shops. Just the majority. I understand rates going up due to shop bills going up, but going up 100%? As for the moonlighter, I was just saying. It can't be compaired to the shops, because there is no overhead whatsoever. That's why he makes a killin that way. I would be proud to work for a shop that does business like yours does.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: sarjxxx on February 25, 2012, 11:32:13 PM
Wooowww. That's some upselling right there. I just did my rear shoes this morning myself. A few months ago I took it to a brake specialty shop and they told me that my pads were almost completely worn and that my drums were way out of specs. He wanted to charge me $400 to replace the drums and shoes. I said sorry bud but I don't have even a quarter of that to give you and went home. Pulled the drums off, checked everything out, and not really that bad.
So I looked up the prices online. For top of the shelf reman drums and new Motorcraft shoes I could be done for less than $100. So I checked my drums again today and they're withing spec so I learned this morning how to change brake shoes. I've done front pads before but having never done drum brakes I was a little intimidated at first cause there's a lot of in there but with the help of my trusty Haine's manual, I conquered the first side, and then once I knew what I was doing, knocked the other side out in literally half the time. Total job cost: $24. Sorry brakes guy.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Dan B. on February 25, 2012, 11:35:13 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;381964
The public can get NUTTY even if they are old friends and neighbors. Just be cautious.
Tom...thanks. I am selective on what I take on....pretty basic stuff to keep people from getting raped on basic maintenance items. I know folks that are "wrenches" for a living that do side work that I trust with more involved jobs. I don't want a job to take more than an evening if I'm not getting paid.....also don't want my lift tied up in case I need it for my own use.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 25, 2012, 11:49:33 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;381968
Wooowww. That's some upselling right there. I just did my rear shoes this morning myself. A few months ago I took it to a brake specialty shop and they told me that my pads were almost completely worn and that my drums were way out of specs. He wanted to charge me $400 to replace the drums and shoes. I said sorry bud but I don't have even a quarter of that to give you and went home. Pulled the drums off, checked everything out, and not really that bad.
So I looked up the prices online. For top of the shelf reman drums and new Motorcraft shoes I could be done for less than $100. So I checked my drums again today and they're withing spec so I learned this morning how to change brake shoes. I've done front pads before but having never done drum brakes I was a little intimidated at first cause there's a lot of in there but with the help of my trusty Haine's manual, I conquered the first side, and then once I knew what I was doing, knocked the other side out in literally half the time. Total job cost: $24. Sorry brakes guy.
Can't explain thier prices, but I can explain why they were wanting to replace drums. Although the drums or rotors may not need attention upon pad replacement, they will want to turn them anyhow. If it comes even close to being too thin they will replace them. Brakes are way too much of a liability to skimp on repair. Truely, drums and rotors should only have to be turned every other pad replacement, but that's just a rule of thumb. It kind of depends on driving conditions and the pads. I have seen some rotors wore out before the pads. Exessive or harsh brake use could cause warpage.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: sarjxxx on February 26, 2012, 12:21:13 AM
Yeah to be honest if I didn't plan on doing the TC rear conversion before it comes time to do my next shoe change I probably would have gone ahead with the drum change too but I just can't validate the need considering the state they're in and how much I will be using them in the future. I just thought it was funny cause the guy was acting like they were a 1/2 inch out of spec, in fact I seem to remember him giving me some HUGE number like that...
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 26, 2012, 12:33:30 AM
I am of the mind if you own a car, then you need to learn some basics and protect yourself as best you can. i told my girls to never believe a mechanic and ALWAYS get 2-3 estimates, and ALWAYS ask to see the old parts.
The ONE time i let someone else do my oil change, they left the oil filler cap off and spewed 2 quarts of oil all over my engine bay. it was my wifes 2012 fiesta w/4k on the clock. They didnt even apologize.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Beau on February 26, 2012, 01:45:53 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;381837
But...shops, dealerships and the like, I imagine they have a good bit of liability insurance to carry....
Ahem. ;)
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 26, 2012, 01:51:48 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;381985
Ahem. ;)
Yes, I did miss that.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Beau on February 26, 2012, 05:02:16 AM
Ahh it's ok...I was tryin' to lighten the mood some ;)
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: TOM Renzo on February 26, 2012, 07:00:19 AM
Can't explain thier prices, but I can explain why they were wanting to replace drums. Although the drums or rotors may not need attention upon pad replacement, they will want to turn them anyhow. If it comes even close to being too thin they will replace them. Brakes are way too much of a liability to skimp on repair. Truely, drums and rotors should only have to be turned every other pad replacement, but that's just a rule of thumb. It kind of depends on driving conditions and the pads. I have seen some rotors wore out before the pads. Exessive or harsh brake use could cause warpage.
Actually rotors today are so thin even when new turning them will cause them to bounce in a very short time. normally rotors are cheap now because they are HATS (no HUB). So a set of good quality rotors should only cost 100 bucks or so. Cheap insurance against a job coming back. Drums on the other hand can be turned with good results if in speck. But then again i have not seen drums on cars for a long time since rear discs have replaced them years ago. just on the cheaper models and our old rides. Totally agree with you on your post Thanks
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 26, 2012, 05:23:42 PM
:cheers: Tom and I agree with each other! Write this down on your calanders yall!
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Beau on February 26, 2012, 06:44:28 PM
Yeah, he's not so bad ;)
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: 50tbrd88 on February 26, 2012, 08:19:40 PM
If people are not capable of changing their own starter or doing routine maintenance on their car, then they should be willing to pay for a decent mechanic to do the job for them. Its amazing how uneducated people are about cars. A girl my wife works with had a headlight burn out on her SUV.
Neither her or her boyfriend (who is a very smart guy and a lawyer) had any clue how to change a headlight bulb. She was going to take it to the dealership until I showed her how to do it. Growing up on the farm I guess I just take being mechanically minded for granted. We just always fixed and maintained all of our own stuff. That's just normal around here, lol.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 26, 2012, 08:29:17 PM
As a mechanic I can sum up what is puppiesg the trade in two words: FLAT RATE. When you pay your techs flat rate you are encouraging them to be dishonest. They will miss repairs that a car obviously needs because the job doesn't pay well, and they will exaggerate repairs that might not be too crucial (or make them up entirely) if they pay well. Brainy techs who are good at electrical diagnosis (modesty aside, this would be me) are penalized because diagnosis does not pay well (in the case of Chrysler it does not pay at all) while less technically skilled guys make a killing on brakes & suspension. For example, when I was at Saturn, if I was chasing an electrical issue for four hours I MIGHT have gotten paid that four hours, plus an extra half hour for actually making the repair (say, soldering a broken wire). Meanwhile buddy in the next bay has spent his four hours doing three brake jobs and a control arm bushing, and takes home 8 hours. And as mentioned above, Chrysler is even worse. They wouldn't have paid those 4 hours diagnostic time, they'd have paid just the half hour to make the actual repair. For this reason techs are forced to either guess or starve. And it gets worse still - carmakers, especially certain ones that went bankrupt (or came very close to it) are looking to cut warranty costs. When a part fails it must be repaired or replaced, and there's nothing the manufacturer can do about that. So where do they cut costs? By cutting the flat rate times, of course. A job that used to pay 16 hours (such as replacing the swirl valves in a Mercedes 3.0 CDI) now pays 6.
This has the result of techs being reluctant to do warranty repairs and half-ass them when they do. What isn't warranty is retail, and manufacturers don't dictate retail flat rate times, so you can imagine the tech's preference.
Of course the tech isn't the only crook in the dealership service dept. Service advisors get paid a very low base salary plus a bonus based on retail work (warranty stuff does not count). The service manager gets a bonus based on the retail numbers. And of course the dealership owner makes more on retail than he does on flat rate. shiznit normally flows downhill, but in this case it's spraying everywhere. Unfortunately most of it lands on the mechanic, who has absolutely no say in the labour rate, flat rate time or parts markup but has to endure such stupidity as this thread, which places the blame on his back for everything he has no control over, including the vehicle owner's ignorance toward cars.
Let there be no doubt, customers share some blame in the whole mess that is the mechanic/customer relationship (such as this ridiculously titled thread). If you tell a customer a job will take three hours he expects to pay for three hours. If it takes four (broken bolt threw the job into the shiznitter) he will cry bloody murder if you try to charge him four. If it takes two he will expect you to reduce his quote to two. Flat rate is supposed to eliminate this problem, but as mentioned above, paying the tech flat rate and giving the service writer bonuses based on his sales opens it up to abuse. Menu pricing helps somewhat (brakes for $129.99 installed, most vehicles) but until techs start getting paid honestly they will be tempted to upsell/oversell.
For all the reasons posted above I got out of a flat rate shop and into one that pays a salary. I could probably make 30% more flat rate but I'm tired of the bullshiznit. And since everyone in the shop is paid the same I don't feel bad chasing an electrical gremlin while the dumb guy makes a killing on the alignment hoist. And I'm not alone. Large dealerships are losing their best techs to small shops because of the politics and flat rate reductions. They're all begging for techs but can't get anyone with any experience. As soon as young guys see the bullshiznit they leave. Some leave for smaller, straight time shops. Some leave for foreign dealerships that usually pay much better. Many leave the trade entirely. It's going to be interesting to see where this all ends up...
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: daminc on February 26, 2012, 08:30:11 PM
I actually don't work on any of my other cars... I got a mechanic who is real good, trustworthy, and also charges a decent price.. it would cost me more money to do my own repairs on my cars. I used to do it all myself, now I just play with the cougars when I have time. I also hate getting greasy...lol
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 26, 2012, 08:54:36 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;382072
As a mechanic I can sum up what is puppiesg the trade in two words: FLAT RATE. When you pay your techs flat rate you are encouraging them to be dishonest. They will miss repairs that a car obviously needs because the job doesn't pay well, and they will exaggerate repairs that might not be too crucial (or make them up entirely) if they pay well. Brainy techs who are good at electrical diagnosis (modesty aside, this would be me) are penalized because diagnosis does not pay well (in the case of Chrysler it does not pay at all) while less technically skilled guys make a killing on brakes & suspension. For example, when I was at Saturn, if I was chasing an electrical issue for four hours I MIGHT have gotten paid that four hours, plus an extra half hour for actually making the repair (say, soldering a broken wire). Meanwhile buddy in the next bay has spent his four hours doing three brake jobs and a control arm bushing, and takes home 8 hours. And as mentioned above, Chrysler is even worse. They wouldn't have paid those 4 hours diagnostic time, they'd have paid just the half hour to make the actual repair. For this reason techs are forced to either guess or starve. And it gets worse still - carmakers, especially certain ones that went bankrupt (or came very close to it) are looking to cut warranty costs. When a part fails it must be repaired or replaced, and there's nothing the manufacturer can do about that. So where do they cut costs? By cutting the flat rate times, of course. A job that used to pay 16 hours (such as replacing the swirl valves in a Mercedes 3.0 CDI) now pays 6.
This has the result of techs being reluctant to do warranty repairs and half-ass them when they do. What isn't warranty is retail, and manufacturers don't dictate retail flat rate times, so you can imagine the tech's preference.
Of course the tech isn't the only crook in the dealership service dept. Service advisors get paid a very low base salary plus a bonus based on retail work (warranty stuff does not count). The service manager gets a bonus based on the retail numbers. And of course the dealership owner makes more on retail than he does on flat rate. shiznit normally flows downhill, but in this case it's spraying everywhere. Unfortunately most of it lands on the mechanic, who has absolutely no say in the labour rate, flat rate time or parts markup but has to endure such stupidity as this thread, which places the blame on his back for everything he has no control over, including the vehicle owner's ignorance toward cars.
Let there be no doubt, customers share some blame in the whole mess that is the mechanic/customer relationship (such as this ridiculously titled thread). If you tell a customer a job will take three hours he expects to pay for three hours. If it takes four (broken bolt threw the job into the shiznitter) he will cry bloody murder if you try to charge him four. If it takes two he will expect you to reduce his quote to two. Flat rate is supposed to eliminate this problem, but as mentioned above, paying the tech flat rate and giving the service writer bonuses based on his sales opens it up to abuse. Menu pricing helps somewhat (brakes for $129.99 installed, most vehicles) but until techs start getting paid honestly they will be tempted to upsell/oversell.
For all the reasons posted above I got out of a flat rate shop and into one that pays a salary. I could probably make 30% more flat rate but I'm tired of the bullshiznit. And since everyone in the shop is paid the same I don't feel bad chasing an electrical gremlin while the dumb guy makes a killing on the alignment hoist. And I'm not alone. Large dealerships are losing their best techs to small shops because of the politics and flat rate reductions. They're all begging for techs but can't get anyone with any experience. As soon as young guys see the bullshiznit they leave. Some leave for smaller, straight time shops. Some leave for foreign dealerships that usually pay much better. Many leave the trade entirely. It's going to be interesting to see where this all ends up...
Amen. I would be exhibit A.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 26, 2012, 09:03:07 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;382038
Yeah, he's not so bad ;)
Never said he was bad. Seems to be a good man and very knowledgeable. We just disagree a lot.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: sarjxxx on February 26, 2012, 09:10:14 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;381994
But then again i have not seen drums on cars for a long time since rear discs have replaced them years ago. just on the cheaper models and our old rides.
believe it or not my heavy ass 07 Raider actually has drums in the back
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: turbotrav on February 26, 2012, 09:13:27 PM
As a small business man I am very ok. With businesses making a profit. But not screwing people. I'm a computer consultant(its good to be paid for your opinion), but my shop also repairs computers. The good the bad and the super cheap. We are honest and warranty the repair we do. We have to do some SOP diag work on every PC that comes in(my young tech guy always doesn't like it, too bad). Sometimes you take it on the chin. But most days it good.
A rich smart business man once told me a simple formula.
A,B,C customers! As a business man you want A customers......duh!
A Customer: pretty much know what they want/need, trusts you to do it for them, and pays the bill quickly....without questions.
B Customer: still know something of what they want/need, likes you and most of the time trust what you say, and pays the bill pretty fast and sometimes questions your bill, but over all its still a good experience.
C Customer: doesnt know what they want/need, doesn't trust you much, and pays slowly and complains about the bill all the time.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure you dont want/need C customers. They are generally not worth it, because of the hassle and the bad mouthing that happens when everything doesn't go perfect....
Im at the point in my career that I dont need every customer.... So I really focus on the A's and B's. :)
Travis
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: nbzimmer on February 26, 2012, 09:14:32 PM
This is a real interesting thread. I will say one thing for sure, I wish I had some of you guys for a neighbor. I'm not completely worthless mechanically and I am always willing to learn something new. But I definitely don't always know what I am doing, and it is just nice to have someone with more experience take a peek and tell you if you are on the right track.
As far as the larger issue, I think Thunder Chicken is probably getting close to the truth. Every side has contributed something to the problem (customers included). One factor that I might add is the increasing complexity of cars. Take the case of the headlight mentioned by Mr. Wilson as an example. The other day I changed the headlight on my '00 Taurus. I had to look at the owner's manual a couple times just to figure out how to get the housing loose. Without that it would have taken me forever just to change a stinkin' headlight. It just isn't always intuitive the way the things are put together. So for things that were more complicated in the first place, it is getting darn near impossible for an amateur like me to fix anything. And it also seems like it would be easier for a mechanic to have to spend more time and effort on a job than he antited, but also easier for a customer to get taken for a ride because they have no idea how anything works in their car so they just accept what they are told. So it still cuts both ways.
That cut thermostat is crazy. I can't believe someone would go that far. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 27, 2012, 01:16:23 AM
Quote from: sarjxxx;382084
believe it or not my heavy ass 07 Raider actually has drums in the back
tom said cars, not trucks lol a lot of trucks from the past few years still do their stopping with drums in the rear
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 28, 2012, 05:30:57 PM
My new "11" Fiesta has drums, but anyway, the title is hardly ridiculous cuz there was no room in the title for " Sorry a$$ Local Goodyear Garage mechanics tried to rip off my neighbor". These were not dealership guys, they are a local garage...dont know if they have the same pay rate as a dealership or not. fact is they blatantly ripped off a dude that obviously knows nothing about cars. As far as consumers being informed, well I dont know about computers, but my neighbor does, SO, we trade labor, only I teach him basic car stuff. I think this bartering system will be coming back in fashion soon.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: sarjxxx on February 28, 2012, 05:57:10 PM
Quote from: Shadow;382122
tom said cars, not trucks lol a lot of trucks from the past few years still do their stopping with drums in the rear
yeah but I also forgot to mention my wife's 08 civic has them as well. Although I tend to blame that simply on it's being a civic...:yuck:
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 28, 2012, 06:20:31 PM
Actually it is a ridiculous thread title because you're blaming the mechanics for the practices of the shop (parts markup, labour rate, etc). Not only that but you're lumping all mechanics together like we're all crooks based on your experience with one shop. This would be like saying "Sorry a** Jews" because you paid too much for legal services, or "sorry ass ni**ers" because you know somebody that got robbed by a black guy. Stereotypes are bad, M'Kay? And perpetuating them out of ignorance is worse.
Remember, the mechanic does not set the door rate. He does not set the flat rate time. He does not set the parts markup. He does not decide the "menu pricing" items such as maintenance. And he doesn't buy/install Chinese Autozone white-box $20 rotors that will only last a few months because he knows he has to guarantee his work.
He merely turns his wrenches and puts up with a lot of bullshiznit like this...
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 28, 2012, 07:45:13 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;382378
Actually it is a ridiculous thread title because you're blaming the mechanics for the practices of the shop (parts markup, labour rate, etc). Not only that but you're lumping all mechanics together like we're all crooks based on your experience with one shop. This would be like saying "Sorry a** Jews" because you paid too much for legal services, or "sorry ass ni**ers" because you know somebody that got robbed by a black guy. Stereotypes are bad, M'Kay? And perpetuating them out of ignorance is worse.
Remember, the mechanic does not set the door rate. He does not set the flat rate time. He does not set the parts markup. He does not decide the "menu pricing" items such as maintenance. And he doesn't buy/install Chinese Autozone white-box $20 rotors that will only last a few months because he knows he has to guarantee his work.
He merely turns his wrenches and puts up with a lot of bullshiznit like this...
Calm down there Thunder Chicken. You are 100% correct, however, I don't think it was his intentions to stereotype anyone. Most of the talk on this thread has been education as to why this stuff is happening, not perpetuating of ignorance. Just trying to keep peace. There hasn't been a lot of it on here lately. Unfortunately, I have been in the middle of most of the negativity around here. Kind of makes me wounder if it's me.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: turbotrav on February 28, 2012, 08:30:42 PM
I think this a decent thread. Kinda odd on a car forum. I say that with the fact almost all of us Work on our old tired fox cars. Anyway the few that don't mite find this thread useful.
Travis
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 28, 2012, 08:47:35 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;382372
yeah but I also forgot to mention my wife's 08 civic has them as well. Although I tend to blame that simply on it's being a civic...:yuck:
it's the big H on the decklid.. that's the fault LOL
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 28, 2012, 08:52:40 PM
Seriously? You would equate (pick your ism) to me being a bit taken aback that one particular, locally owned/operated professional automotive repair shop stuck a q-tip in an engine and charged said customer $70 for a bottle of injector cleaner? I understand why you would take offense if it was a slap at your entire profession, but this was a beef against ONE shop, I believe that was obvious, if not, oh well...Now you know. I dont care what the cirspoogestances were, THAT was just plain unsat.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 28, 2012, 08:55:14 PM
Quote from: Chrome;382389
Calm down there Thunder Chicken. You are 100% correct, however, I don't think it was his intentions to stereotype anyone. Most of the talk on this thread has been education as to why this stuff is happening, not perpetuating of ignorance. Just trying to keep peace. There hasn't been a lot of it on here lately. Unfortunately, I have been in the middle of most of the negativity around here. Kind of makes me wounder if it's me.
Sorry, bud, but 25 years of hearing how mechanics are all douchebags and crooks kinda makes one sensitive on the subject. I pride myself in my skills, my tools, and my honesty and it has been my experience that 99.9% of mechanics do too. In fact I've only ever met one that was truly dishonest, in fact I worked for him for a very short while, and I let him know at every opportunity what I thought of him and made every effort to prevent his dishonesty by beating him to the customer and telling him the truth before my former boss could make something up. And he still calls me frequently trying to get me to come back to work for him, even though he knows I hate him.
And if his thread was not meant to stereotype anyone he probably shouldn't have called it "sorry @$$ mechanics", because it's kinda hard to see that as anything else
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 28, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: lakenheath24;382407
Seriously? You would equate (pick your ism) to me being a bit taken aback that one particular, locally owned/operated professional automotive repair shop stuck a q-tip in an engine and charged said customer $70 for a bottle of injector cleaner? I understand why you would take offense if it was a slap at your entire profession, but this was a beef against ONE shop, I believe that was obvious, if not, oh well...Now you know. I dont care what the cirspoogestances were, THAT was just plain unsat.
Ok, so your friend knows nothing about cars, yet you trust him to be correct/accurate in what he described to you? Did you not consider that the qtip was shoved into the oil fill hole and drawn out full of sludge, and an entire engine cleaning was sold to him instead of a bottle of injector cleaner? Or that maybe even if it was injector dirt, that it wasn't an injector cleaning service and not just a bottle of cleaner? Does your friend know the difference? that brake job, was the price quoted for a full.?brake job (lifetime warranty pads, high quality rotors, caliper slider service, etc) or was it just for a pair of white box autozone rotors?
Your thread title said "sorry @$$ mechanics". That's plural, showing a generalization. And it did not say "sorry ass repair shop", showing you were blaming mechanics, not the shop. But that's ok. Sooner or later you'll come across something that's over your head, and you'll be relying on those sorry @$$ mechanics to get your sorry @$$ back on the road. Here's a hint for when that happens - don't let them know you resent them, else you'll be... Um... Sorry @$$...
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 28, 2012, 09:40:42 PM
I did. I let a local shop fix the AC on my wife's 01 PT cruiser. Forked out 900 bones to r2 the compressor. It got so hot the plug melted out. Anyway, it lasted 2 weeks til the freon leaked out...this after they did a 3 hour leakdown...allegedly. I took it back and they wanted another 900 to r2 the leaking condensor. Did I mention that in the OP? Nope, cuz I was talking about ONE incident. BTW, they refused to honor the warranty and went out of business within a year. As far as the friend goes, he put the qtip in the spark plug hole. And r2 the power steering fluid? c'mon, that's comical. But, I understand your irritation. Everybody generalizes. When I was in the Air Force and one of our bombs was off target, it was The Air Force did it, not one pilot that pickled the bomb wrong, or one guy on the ground painting the wrong target with his laser. Same thing now, some yahoos at the factory get drunk at lunch and all of Lockheed gets a black eye. I am even willing to bet you don't necessarily like hockey or say "eh". Tell ya what, I am going to the fridge, popping open a Moosehead and have a beer with ya. I was talking about 1 shop, 1 incident. Sorry for the erroneous plurality.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Chrome on February 28, 2012, 09:51:10 PM
One can understand this man's frustration. His wife has a PT Cruiser! lol
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 28, 2012, 09:55:23 PM
Quote from: Chrome;382420
One can understand this man's frustration. His wife has a PT Loser! lol
fixed :D
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 28, 2012, 10:17:40 PM
HAD! I actually hauled a bathtub in it once. You should have seen the looks on the guys at Lowe's when I pulled up. Slid right in though. I started to attempt the timing belt and said screw that. I was glad to pay someone to do that.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 28, 2012, 10:25:32 PM
Fixed title to make it less offensive, hopefully.
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: ZondaC12 on February 28, 2012, 10:54:22 PM
Carm,
I looked back and unless he edited it (and it does look familiar) he did say "...the local garage has been preying on him...", and I mean I don't know, it's not my forum to make decisions on thread titles, but is that not a little too much focus on a small detail? LOL. The statement above shows he understood that not necessarily a whole profession is corrupt nor are the ones actually carrying out tasks, globally or locally in this case, but just the result of his neighbor going to this business for service resulted in him getting ripped off.
I don't mean to paint you as easily offended or flying off the handle (though you did say yourself that dealing with people assuming YOU are a dirtbag over many years has left you more likely to get angered by someone ranting about repair shops), but I'd just politely suggest you keep in mind the other perspective.
As recently, formerly an engineering student and now an engineer (well an assisting "technician" as my HR description goes) I don't take offense to things like the thread "Auto engineers, what do they know?" I have seen both when I was in college, and unfortunately at my job now, some examples of the engineer that people hate, and it's understandable where the frustration comes from.
It's no less reason to not be honest yourself if that is who indeed you are. No less reason to not take pride in yourself and believe that what you're doing is right and WORTH doing. People who see the results will praise you. One (or more in this case) bad apple spoils the whole bunch more often than it should, but when it comes to people feeling stolen from, the frequency jumps up. Ignorant as some conversations may be, when I overhear them or are involved in them I keep in mind what the "victim" or the casual observer, well, observes and bear that in mind before I sling an insult or lecture them. Do I HATE and LOATHE blatant stupidity? Yes. The same for ignorance? Not necessarily.
The bottom line is you know zero about something you own as far as a specific failure and repair goes. You trust a repair service to address that issue correctly, safely, and at a fair market value. That trust is betrayed, how do you feel?
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Beau on February 29, 2012, 02:15:33 AM
I like cheeseburgers.
Do you like 'em, too?
I like a shot of Crown of an evening, sometimes.
Some mechanics are douchebags. Half-ass things. I worked with one...upped and quit. 6 months later they went under.
Never again will I work on the general public's vehicles to feed me or my family. I'd literally resort to selling drugs before I cave in to the picky customer who thinks he knows more about what's wrong, how to fix it, or why it's squealing/rattling/smoking, etc...if YOU know so god-ed much, why ya got your shiznit in my yard to work on?
Anymore, i even hate working on my own stuff. But at least I know I won't die, blow up, or catch on fire before I get to the interstate (which is only 1.5 miles away).
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: Shadow on February 29, 2012, 02:32:31 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;382445
I like cheeseburgers.
Do you like 'em, too?
yessir.. but no just any cheese burgers.. white castle burgers! nom nom nom nom nom.. and NOT the nasty garbage you buy in the freezer section of your local grocery store.. i mean the real deal, BUUUUUUUUUUUDDY
reading these posts, i can't help but just shake my head and turn the page..
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: ZondaC12 on February 29, 2012, 07:38:44 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;382445
at least I know I won't die, blow up, or catch on fire before I get to the interstate (which is only 1.5 miles away).
That ain't too much testing period! LOL
Title: Man fools kid
Post by: lakenheath24 on February 29, 2012, 07:46:40 PM
Uh-oh. I got to work today and just as I get past the gate....smoke. I ease into the parking lot and oil is pouring out from somewhere. I just had a local shop change the oil. I actually HOPE they left the plug loose. Otherwise....eek. I miss White Castle burgers...I dont miss the aftermath!