General => Lounge => Topic started by: dragon574444 on February 17, 2012, 12:26:59 PM
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 17, 2012, 12:26:59 PM
I'm looking at an 87 Lincoln MK VII. The seller is asking $900, which I think is a little high. The transmission is "acting up" but he states that it has the 225 HP 5.0. Assuming he's correct, that means it has E7 heads as opposed to the E6s. Would the 87 HO have forged pistons? I plan on taking the engine and putting it in my car, along with the entire exhaust system. Cats will be cashed in, but I want the headers and with a little welding I can have my exhaust actually exit out of the back of the car. I'll be taking the 8.8 disk brakes rear end. He says it has 3.27 gears and traction lock. I'll be using the front rotors and calipers as well. Might need the spindles as well? I don't have a very good understanding of how the front end on our cars work. I haven't had to replace anything on my car yet :hick: I'm hoping to avoid any problems with ABS, I might have to use my old master cylinder. The rest of the car will be parted out and sold piece by piece. Widow motors, lock actuators, any decent looking interior pieces, fog lights, etc. The shell will be sped.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: hypostang on February 17, 2012, 12:38:02 PM
$900 sounds about right for that car around here , however I live in the land of no rust .
I have owned a ton of different cars in my life and by far my Mark VII was my favorite daily driver
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: vinnietbird on February 17, 2012, 12:41:54 PM
I had an '87 Mark VII I used for parts, and it had the 5.0 H.O but with flat top pistons. It Does have the H.O engine, same as the Stang. Whether it has the flat tops or valve reliefs, can't say. Yes, it'll have forged pistons from the factory. If the engine is good, and you plan on using it, and the diff and front 5 lug parts, I'd say it's worth it, and you'll get some money back frm selling the shell and parts as you can.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 17, 2012, 12:46:42 PM
Cool, I'm glad you guys think that's a fair price. I'm gonna pull the heads off the engine when I get it home and check to see what's hiding under there. Freshen it up if needed, hopefully it won't need a rebuild.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Beau on February 17, 2012, 12:50:26 PM
2 things: The 5 lug fronts won't clear anything but the factory Ford 5 lug wheels, as the Lincoln hubs are larger than say, an SN95, but other than that.
And as Vinnie stated, the pistons are forged, and they do have the valve reliefs. Not sure if the '7 spindles will work, but in any case, you can run the 5 lug rotor on an '87-'88 TC or '87-'93 Stang 5.0 spindle.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 17, 2012, 01:05:29 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380956
2 things: The 5 lug fronts won't clear anything but the factory Ford 5 lug wheels, as the Lincoln hubs are larger than say, an SN95, but other than that.
easy fix.. pull the rotors, clean them up and visit your local machine shop.. i recommend waiting to do this when you get your wheels of choice, so that you're not wasting time running back and forth to the machine shop, because they haven't been milled enough.. apparently, some people use a grinder to do this, but i prefer to have a professional machinist have at it with a lathe
edit.. and 900 sounds fair.. but if it doesn't say FIRM, offer him less and go from there
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on February 17, 2012, 01:52:07 PM
Screw the machine shop, just pop the studs out, mount it backwards on a brake lathe, and use the drum attachment to turn the center down. Still not gonna help much, though, because the center is still gonna be too tall to fit under most aftermarket wheels...
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: T-BirdX3 on February 17, 2012, 01:57:12 PM
Did I miss the mileage? The mileage is going to have an impact on the condition of the rear, engine, etc...
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Beau on February 17, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
It's a 25 year old parts car....I'd be most concerned with engine maintenance, how it was driven, and what previous mechanical work was done. :)
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: T-BirdX3 on February 17, 2012, 02:06:11 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;380968
It's a 25 year old parts car....I'd be most concerned with engine maintenance, how it was driven, and what previous mechanical work was done. :)
Absolutely, but there isn't a real accurate way to get that information. You could ask the guy that you are buying it from, but when was the last time you were looking at a car and the owner said "I only changed the oil when it became 4 quarts low and only checked the coolant when it overheated...." which to be honest is how a lot of people look at "car maintenance".
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 17, 2012, 02:15:47 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;380965
Screw the machine shop, just pop the studs out, mount it backwards on a brake lathe, and use the drum attachment to turn the center down. Still not gonna help much, though, because the center is still gonna be too tall to fit under most aftermarket wheels...
that does the job, too.. but i can only imagine the look you'll get from the guy you're asking to do it lol the center cap thing is something i haven't completely come up with a solution to, yet.. but since i don't currently own center caps for my wheels.. i have time to find a solution lol
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: vinnietbird on February 17, 2012, 02:21:27 PM
I'm betting it has flat top pistons like the '86 Stang 5.0.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 17, 2012, 02:49:19 PM
Well, I went and bought it. Talked him down to 700. The car has 100k on it. The engine sounds good, one of the cats is rattling though. Probably could use a refresh, new bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. I'm not convinced it has E7 heads, it was an early 87, made in February. He said he looked up the VIN number, and a website told him that it had the 225HP version. I don't care too much either way, E7 heads can be bought cheap. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to score a set of GT40s.
As far as the wheels go, I REALLY want a set of those optional BBS wheels. I'll put some nice summer tires on them, then keep this set of wheels for the winter. I'm doing the same thing now with a set of Turbines and the stock steel wheels.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Soul on February 17, 2012, 02:49:33 PM
I see cancer on the door and front of the fender, I bet the trunk and floor boards are rot as well. I'd probably pass.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: 5.0 tbird on February 17, 2012, 07:08:22 PM
Quote from: dragon574444;380978
Well, I went and bought it. Talked him down to 700. The car has 100k on it. The engine sounds good, one of the cats is rattling though. Probably could use a refresh, new bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. I'm not convinced it has E7 heads, it was an early 87, made in February. He said he looked up the VIN number, and a website told him that it had the 225HP version. I don't care too much either way, E7 heads can be bought cheap. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to score a set of GT40s.
As far as the wheels go, I REALLY want a set of those optional BBS wheels. I'll put some nice summer tires on them, then keep this set of wheels for the winter. I'm doing the same thing now with a set of Turbines and the stock steel wheels.
What's the VIN? That car could be extremely rare if it's a 1987 with the 225 hp motor.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 17, 2012, 08:03:01 PM
Quote from: dragon574444;380978
Well, I went and bought it. Talked him down to 700. The car has 100k on it. The engine sounds good, one of the cats is rattling though. Probably could use a refresh, new bearings, rings, gaskets, etc. I'm not convinced it has E7 heads, it was an early 87, made in February. He said he looked up the VIN number, and a website told him that it had the 225HP version. I don't care too much either way, E7 heads can be bought cheap. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to score a set of GT40s.
As far as the wheels go, I REALLY want a set of those optional BBS wheels. I'll put some nice summer tires on them, then keep this set of wheels for the winter. I'm doing the same thing now with a set of Turbines and the stock steel wheels.
I would almost say a safe bet would be that if it was an earlier '87 model that it probably does not have the 225hp/e7 head version of the H.O. I believe it was some of the later '87's that got the better heads, but like you said, e7's are cheap.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 17, 2012, 11:58:05 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;380983
What's the VIN? That car could be extremely rare if it's a 1987 with the 225 hp motor.
1LNBM93E1JY600579
I don't think really is a way to look it up, but if there is that would be cool. If anyone here needs some miscellaneous parts off this, let me know.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: softtouch on February 18, 2012, 01:57:44 AM
Quote from: dragon574444;381002
1LNBM93E1JY600579
I don't think really is a way to look it up, but if there is that would be cool. If anyone here needs some miscellaneous parts off this, let me know.
That is a 1988 VIN number.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 18, 2012, 02:01:17 AM
Huh....you know, it's odd. We were writing up the bill of sale, and I noticed the title said 1988. I asked him about it, and he said "huh...the door sticker says it's an 87." And it did. We just assumed the DMV messed up on the title. Maybe it's really an 88? That would make me happy, it would have E7s and notched pistons for sure. I'll be able to confirm this some more for you guys Sunday. The car isn't home yet.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: turbotrav on February 18, 2012, 07:39:07 AM
Way to go Softtouch
That mark 7 has the 1988 wheels. Lincoln started making the 88 model in spring of 87. That would be the engine and heads you want. The true 87 Mark7 (built between july 86 to feb 87 would be a repete of the 86. 200hp 5.0 with the per heads.
Travis
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: hypostang on February 18, 2012, 11:15:34 AM
Post a pic of the passenger side of the dash when you get it please
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 18, 2012, 11:38:16 AM
Well it could be an 88, built in 87. My 88 T-bird was built in September of 87 and it's an 88 model year car. My Focus was built in September of 2010 and it's a 2011 model. Manufactures do like that all the time. Hell Ford is going to start production of the 2013 Mustang in march of 2012....
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 18, 2012, 12:39:14 PM
Quote from: turbotrav;381020
Way to go Softtouch
That mark 7 has the 1988 wheels. Lincoln started making the 88 model in spring of 87. That would be the engine and heads you want. The true 87 Mark7 (built between july 86 to feb 87 would be a repete of the 86. 200hp 5.0 with the per heads.
Travis
That's great news, I can't wait to start digging into her.
Quote from: hypostang;381026
Post a pic of the passenger side of the dash when you get it please
Will do. The interior isn't very pretty, I'm not sure how much of it will be worth selling. Leather (vinyl?) seats never hold up as well as cloth seats do.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: hypostang on February 18, 2012, 10:30:11 PM
The reason I asked for a pic is the changed the dash in 88 ...a pic will help in the mystery :)
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: 5.0 tbird on February 19, 2012, 02:27:11 AM
Really, the dash changed in 88? What changed about it?
The VIN tells the story though, with the year code J being a 1988. There's been rumors over the years that a few of the last 1987s came through with the E code, but it hasn't been confirmed yet.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 19, 2012, 12:19:09 PM
Got her home. (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2205.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2207.jpg)
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on February 19, 2012, 02:06:00 PM
looks like the '87 dash and door panels to me
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: hypostang on February 19, 2012, 02:08:00 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;381084
Really, the dash changed in 88? What changed about it?
The instrument font changed at some point , but the the emblem on the right side of the dash changed in 88, his car has the 88 style, There were actually three variations of Mark VII emblem pictured left to right 84-87 , 88-89, and 90-92
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: hypostang on February 19, 2012, 02:29:59 PM
Another odd thing is the woodgrain dash trim , while having LSC wheels and emblems on the rear roof pillar
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 19, 2012, 02:48:27 PM
Quote from: hypostang;381106
Another odd thing is the woodgrain dash trim , while having LSC wheels and emblems on the rear roof pillar
i've seen similar things before.. lincolns really confuse the hell out of me..
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 19, 2012, 06:53:18 PM
So I think we can conclude that this car is a very early 88? I'll be pulling the engine tomorrow hopefully, so I might pull a head off to confirm that it has E7s. Thanks for all the help guys!
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Beau on February 19, 2012, 11:03:42 PM
I figured by wheels alone it was an '88.
Should (and hopefully does) have the E7's....I *think* you can determine those by pulling a valve cover? Been awhile since I had to condescend to looking for an E7 though lol.
If you were closer, and didn't need the rear end, I'd be happy to take it off your hands lol
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: V8Demon on February 19, 2012, 11:34:00 PM
8th digit in the VIN is E.....
It left the assembly line with an H.O motor replete with E7 heads.
Quote
Well it could be an 88, built in 87.
Reading through this I assumed the exact same thing. The build tag has me perplexed. I can't think of too many vehicles where the model year preceded the actual year by over 10 months....odd. Not that it's impossible, but highly improbable, especially in situations where there was not a break in production. I would expect to see something like that with a 1984 Corvette.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: sarjxxx on February 20, 2012, 12:39:00 PM
Well the last 3 digits of the VIN mean it was the 579th car to roll off the line for the production year am I correct? That would explain the earliness of it.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: turbotrav on February 20, 2012, 08:44:33 PM
Its an early 88....that is all.
By law auto makers can call a 1988 model year car. If its built 01/01/1987 to 12/31/1988....yeah almost 2 years. One of the best examples is 1997 ford f150. Starting building them in Jan 1996 and didnt stop until july 1997. The 1987 Buick Grand National. There was 20k built in 1987 model year. The first 10k was built from mid July 86-june87. Then buick built the last 10k from august 87-dec 87(the demand was there). I had an 87 built on September 25, 1987 on a tuesday :). Cutlass Supreme and Monte Carlo where built at the same Pontiac Plant. But cars built after aug 87 they call 1988 model year. Its the choice of the auto maker. The government only cares if they cross the first mention production dates or if emission changes have to take place. As most of the US car makers have notice they do announce model years earlier rather than later. But it does happen when a car line is finishing up production. 1996 Caprice was built right up to the last moment in dec 1996. Mostly Impala SS and cop cars from what I understand. I although I have read that GM actually made more cop cars until mid Jan 1997(that is an internet rumor). They just paid the government the fines. I believe there wasn't any emissions change BS that year to comply with.
Travis
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 21, 2012, 07:43:22 PM
Wasn't able to pull the engine today, started to rain. All I had left to do was the bellhousing bolts too...I'll get it done next Sunday for sure.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: cougarcragar on February 21, 2012, 08:22:43 PM
Nice purchase, and with a factory moonroof to boot.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 21, 2012, 10:10:53 PM
Quote from: cougarcragar;381287
Nice purchase, and with a factory moonroof to boot.
The moonroof is absolutely my favorite part on the car. Hit the switch one way, and it pops up like a sunroof. Flip it the other way, and it slides into the roof like a moon roof.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 21, 2012, 11:50:01 PM
Quote from: dragon574444;381299
The moonroof is absolutely my favorite part on the car. Hit the switch one way, and it pops up like a sunroof. Flip it the other way, and it slides into the roof like a moon roof.
that's the only thing i liked about my XR7 lol
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 28, 2012, 06:36:42 PM
So I'm back with an update. The car had E7TEs and notched pistons. Now I was told it had 100K on it. My dad says however, that the engine looks like it has less than 50k on it. There's no ridge at the top of the bores. There's a fair amount of carbon buildup on them though. I figure I can just put in new bearings all around for peace of mind, hone the cylinder just a little, and new rings. Now assuming this is the original engine, it was probably rebuilt before. I'm 99.9% sure it is the original engine, the numbers in the back of the block are the same as the car's VIN. My dad looked and he couldn't find any marks that say it was bored 30 over, but the rods are stamped with numbers. He says someone was here before, the factory doesn't do that. Could it be a sleeved block? I don't really know what those look like...What do you guys think? I cleaned up the engine a little, so any streaks you see in the bores aren't scratches, and the pistons are cleaned up quite a bit. (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2217.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2219.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2224.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2225.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2227.jpg) (http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l280/dragon574444/103_2230.jpg)
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 28, 2012, 08:31:38 PM
a sleeved block is easy to spot, with the heads/gaskets off and deck surface cleaned.. you will see that a cylinder has been bored and had a sleeve pressed in.. i'm drawing a blank on a better explanation.. lol
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: turbotrav on February 28, 2012, 08:38:39 PM
Man I would clean everything up and run it. It was in a mark 7. It had a pretty easy life. Heck the aod would die a horrid death first. It probably has shorties!. Mine did.
Travis
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Clayton on February 29, 2012, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: Shadow;382397
a sleeved block is easy to spot, with the heads/gaskets off and deck surface cleaned.. you will see that a cylinder has been bored and had a sleeve pressed in.. i'm drawing a blank on a better explanation.. lol
See the rings around the cyl? yeah kinda looks like where the rings on the HG would rest. if it was sleeved this would probably be the easiest way to tell other than rolling the motor over and looking at the bottoms of the cyl's they could quite possibly be a lip.
And the markings on the rods that you see.. Ive seen them on every motor Ive ever rebuilt.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: jangus on February 29, 2012, 12:55:05 AM
See the rings around the cyl? yeah kinda looks like where the rings on the HG would rest. if it was sleeved this would probably be the easiest way to tell other than rolling the motor over and looking at the bottoms of the cyl's they could quite possibly be a lip.
And the markings on the rods that you see.. Ive seen them on every motor Ive ever rebuilt.
Varies by manufacturer. The only Olds engines I found numbered rods in had been rebuilt. The virgin ones had no rod markings. Then AMC's I've dealt with were the same. However, every 2.3 Ford I've tore down has had marked rods, rebuilt or virgin, didn't matter.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Beau on February 29, 2012, 02:20:29 AM
Quote from: dragon574444;381299
The moonroof is absolutely my favorite part on the car. Hit the switch one way, and it pops up like a sunroof. Flip it the other way, and it slides into the roof like a moon roof.
The moonroof on my Sport is the only thing I truly hate about it. Up till I seen it sitting on the lot, I'd never even seen an '88 Sport in person (that I'm aware of).
Engine looks 100% stock and untouched to me, I've got an HO shortblock on my stand out of a '90 GT, I'll have to snap a few pics for comparison for you when I pull the pan this weekend.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Shadow on February 29, 2012, 02:26:11 AM
every stock ford bottom end i've ever touched has had the rods marked
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: dragon574444 on February 29, 2012, 03:04:41 AM
Interesting. Do you guys think this could actually be a 100K engine? The cylinder walls are just too nice. Either way, I'm pretty excited to get this motor in the Thunderbird. Perhaps I'll start a build thread soon.
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: Beau on February 29, 2012, 03:54:51 AM
Yeah, 5.0 engiones last forever and a couple of days if you don't starve 'em of oil or run em hot. Excluding racing, lol. Hell, my '92 F150 with a 5.0 had close to 300,000 on the engine, ran great till the day she went to car heaven.
Of course, it'd had a new timing set, intake, oil pan, and front cover gaskets, fuel pumps, and some other little piddly mechanical stuff replaced in the 10 years I owned it. Ran great though. If I knew for certain the cylinders weren't egg shaped and past the point of getting by without boring, I'd have kept the bottom end for future use. As it is, I have the previously-mentioned Stanger HO short block on my stand..car allegedly had 60K on it when it was pulled, so we'll see.
So I'd say yes, that engine may have only 100K on it...which isn't very much to worry about it, as long as the thing had proper oil changes and the like. Have someone knowledgeable measure the cylinders with a mic (i know there's a proper name for the tool-can't recall it right this second lol) and that will tell you whether it needs any machining or boring.
The pistons are stockers, as you can no doubt tell from the casting marks, so we know it's a factory bore.
And you also get an HO EEC with the car, lol. It also should have an H pipe like the stangs use, unless you've a better one, or someone has cut the cats from it...if not, might make a few bucks off of the cats to a recycler if you've no use for the H pipe.
If you can still see cross-hatching in the cylinders, it's a pretty good block, at least in the cylinder wall area.
'Luck!
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 29, 2012, 11:16:47 AM
Quote from: softtouch;381012
That is a 1988 VIN number.
A VERY early '88 at that...
In '97 I paid $300 for a rusty '86 LSC and drove it home, that northern stuff doesn't bring much in the south...
Title: How much would you pay for an MKVII?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on February 29, 2012, 11:27:00 AM
Quote from: dragon574444;382380
he numbers in the back of the block are the same as the car's VIN. My dad looked and he couldn't find any marks that say it was bored 30 over, but the rods are stamped with numbers. He says someone was here before, the factory doesn't do that. Could it be a sleeved block? I don't really know what those look like...What do you guys think?
I'm yet to see a original 5.0 that didn't have the rods stamped with the cylinder number...