Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Okay I've been meaning to make a post about this for awhile.
 
This is (though not this bad which rendered the mustang undrivable) what happened to both my silver and black cougars.
 
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/d192notch/new1.jpg)
 
 
In that corral thread, sure enough, the guy had a King Cobra pressure plate. I know the silver one has that, and the black car has some other super-heavy clutch. The silver one was worse because of the DUMB Steeda quick-release quadrant which has a bigger radius and applies the same force of your foot over an even greater distance just as fast, as well as due to its size, tugging the cable upward and grinding away at the firewall adjuster/grommet. The Maximum Motorsports clutch quadrant is a much better replacement for the stock plastic Mustang one. Look it up, they've put a LOT of thought into it and hell it's $39 as opposed to $79 for the Steeda one!
 
 
I didn't think to check the silver car until after I came home from LI getting the black one. The guy told me what happened to his car before he owned it, and, though not the cleanest looking fix, the owner before him had welded on a small piece of angle iron to s it up and sealed up and painted it all, giving that point lots of strength and it doesn't move at all. Sure enough though, sticking your head in there you can see where the silver car's firewall is starting to do what that mustang did. The MM quadrant made no difference in the pedal feel which isn't too surprising, but no more grinding cable. I had greased everything up before and was rotating the adjuster periodically to not wear a groove in it.
 
But the flex is ruining the throw of the pressure plate and shifting sucks. So I'll have to have that welded up and reinforced. Not the end of the world, but even at a little over 300 HP at the crank, this whole clutch setup is totally overkill and sure enough didn't it ruin something else.
 
Just something to watch out for if you have an upgraded clutch! Couldn't find a thread here anywhere about this, so I thought I'd mention it, plenty of us do 5 speed swaps all the time. Stop it before it happens!

I thought you meant the clutch exploded. I knew a guy that lost his right foot when his clutch exploded in a mustang at the strip. The shrapnel almost cut the car in half.

But yeah, that's a good thing to keep in mind. I had a king cobra clutch with steeda quadrant and didn't even think of this possibility...

Just to point out a little inaccuracy in the 1st post that relates to the KC clutch. The KC clutch actually requires 10% LESS pedal effort than the stock one but has approx 30% more holding power. The rapid release quadrant is the main case for firewall failure as it applies a greater rate of release to overcome the resistance of the pressure plate....kind of like a stout cam profile working on a valve spring.

Thats why I spent $450 on a bellhousing, someday when I actually drive my cougar (:( )it will be money well spent

I was riding a friend's quad once...we were racing in sand. the clutch came apart in the one I was on...thankfully one piece went out the front of the case and not up into my goodies.

What sucked was, MY old utility quad had to pull 2 broke-down quads 4 miles back to my place...


Now to the topic: I wonder if someone who was skilled enough couldn't make a piece (or 2) of of metal with the same contours, in a thicker gauge, and weld it into place?

Not sure if that would be a PITA, since the booster is right there, and the seam above...

I'd be curious to see the clutch cable from that car. I've personally repaired guys cars where they were in such a hurry to install and drive that they never knew what the spacer washers in the quadrant kit were for. They are used to be certain that the quadrant pulls STRAIGHT and not to the side which will increase the force needed to pull the cable and exert enough side loading to cause failure at the firewall. Also, the best cable to use is the Ford OEM piece as they seem to hold up better than anything else @ the track. That's what I'm using on the street with my KC clutch and Ford racing quadrant and no problems to date other than adjustment for wear.

The OEM cable isn't adjustable, is it? And do you have a part #?

I still have the standard Tbird booster, but will be getting a Stang booster soon so I can use the firewall adjuster..would also like to get a backup cable just in case mine (of unknown make) breaks when I put the car on the road.

:)

  You are correct in the need for a firewall adj as well as a smaller booster. I used a booster from an 86 Mustang GT, a cable from a 88 Mustang with over 120,000mi on it and any good firewall adj.

...this http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-7553-B302/10002/-1?parentProductId=747130

...and this http://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Racing/397/M-7554-A/10002/-1?parentProduc

Yeah the title does make it seem like my clutch grenaded doesn't it :rollin:  And now that it's mentioned I do remember seeing that somewhere about reduced force needed, I of course didn't believe that, made no sense but I guess that's also accomplished? lol
 
Which is definitely disastrous when it happens. But on the subject of the quadrant installation the MM unit I bought has those washers...maybe the Steeda one did but the guy sure didn't use them. From just eyeballing it though, side to side there doesn't seem to be much room for it to move anyway so as to rub the cable in that direction of pull, but the increased radius is killer, totally deflected angle, it should be pulled straight ahead, perpendicular to the firewall.

Aod ftw! ;)

.....real cars have 3 pedals!  :shakeass:......LOL

You probably guessed that it's got me muttering angrily to myself about the trans swap having been done in the first place hahahaha. Can't wait to have the red car back. The 5 speed is fun, I have to give it that.

Swap an AOD back in!

*whiny voice* Then I gotta get a column handle and linkage or floor and cable etc change out the dash if I get column which if I DONT then I need a new column cover because it has the hole for the column shifter...eehhhhh...wahhhhhh LOL. Then it wont weigh just 3400 pounds it'll be more like 35 and I'll whine about that too haha. The same guy doing the red car will probably take care of this. If he doesn't kick my ass for asking haha. This is two winters in a row he hasn't gotten to work on his 65 falcon, so I want him to be able to do that as well. But whenever it happens, he'll help me bomb-proof the firewall.

Thanks for the heads up; I've never heard of this happening before.

So just to clarify; is this is only a concern when running an upgraded clutch and Steeda quick release quadrant?

Yes....and no. If the installation is done correctly and there is no binding at any point, it will work for a long time. If the quadrant is offset, the cable binds or is misaligned and especially if the throw out brg is starting to gall on the stock aluminum input shaft housing (which is a main cause I forgot to mention eariler) then yes it's a concern.

You would have to literally re-design/custom modify the pedal assembly so that the horizontal shaft, basically the whole  thing sits lower so that the bigger arc of the Steeda quadrant doesn't make the cable angle upward as it comes through the firewall. I think they're the only one that makes a quadrant like that. I would be careful even with a stiffer pressure plate. Have someone watch the firewall closely as you step on the pedal. If that thing doesn't stay perfectly motionless...I'd say it's only a matter of time before it rips along that pinch seam. Or from the hole outward, as that guy's photo shows. The firewall seems pretty solid, I thought it was, but I guess it's a lesson in the force that's involved moving a clutch.

I have the steeda double hook quadrant, stock style clutch, and steeda adjustable clutch cable.  I'm going to lose sleep worrying that my firewall will be destroyed now.  Thanks guys, lol.

My silver car was built like it is almost ten years ago. He put about 20k on it. So bear that in mind, you still have time on your side :D

No more than I drive my car, it will be a long time before I have issues!

  No need to worry with your set up, that cable will expire before your firewall will.

You are probably right...

My cougar did the same thing, it started to crack and would not fully disengage the clutch. I got together a 87 turbo coupe clutch master with the plastic line, a slave cylinder from a 1972 datsun pickup, fab'd up a bracket to bolt the slave to the side of the T-5 and a JIC to clutch master fitting, and now it's hydraulic. want to buy a setup?

Turbo coupe master?

Shows my lack of knowledge of TC's:rollin: Had no idea those were hydraulic. Wow. My friend's dad said that on his immediate reaction. I could definitely make up bracketry and linkage, etc. I found a couple old datsun slaves on ebay, and a repop TC master is clearly readily available as well. Do you have "spare sets" of this setup already made?

there's some thing's you need to scout out or make, If you have the plastic line to the master, you can cut the line off of it and tig a -4 JIC to the metal fitting (what I did) or you can purchase a fitting from russel (part number 641001). I made the -4 to -4 JIC hose like 8 or 10" long cause I have access to fittings and a machine, but you could use field service fittings. the slave is a 30620B5000T from a  72-73 nissan / datsun 620 Pick Up 1.6L Carb Engine From 3 of 1972, it matches the displacement of the TC Master perfectly. as for the bracketry, it's tricky, a few obstacles and a few angles need to be dead on. if you have a bandsaw, plasma cutter, or if youre decent with oxy/fuel you could probably make one pretty easy. I included a few pics. I also included a pic of the russel fitting you you would have an idea of how to make one if you decided to. The pedal box also needs to come from a TC unless you feel up to tackeling that hurdle, on a cable pedal box the shaft goes toward the center of the car, and on the TC / hydraulic setup it comes out closer to the left side of the box, im sure it's possible, but it was easier and cheaper for me to use a TC box.

Hi - I had to revive an old thread. I was having some issues with my adjuster and just noticed that I have the same problem - my firewall is ripped all around the adjuster. Do you have any pics of the fix you did for this? I need to take it to a shop to have it welded and I am trying to figure out the best way to strenghten it without having to pull the dash. It doesn't have to look pretty - it just has to work.

It looks like you TC'd your car out quite a bit already, why not build the bracket to put a hydraulic slave on your T5? From there you just use the pedals and master out of a TC.

BTW, I used to use the datsun slave, but have since switched over to a slave from a 2004 Miata, works better IMHO.

The Mustang set up worked pretty good for years. I really don't want to get into swapping out clutch pedals again. I would still have to find all the parts. I guess as I get older, projects don't intrigue me as much anymore. I just want to get it welded back together hopefully, with a few extra pieces of metal to make it stronger. I was hoping someone had done this repair already so I could get an idea of what it takes to weld some extra metal in there.

Well, the suck of it is, to get to where you need to, to reinforce and weld, your probably going to need to pull the brake booster, that's half of the pedal box job anyway. Besides that, if your going to weld it up at someones shop, you gotta tear it apart where it is to be welded.

I know - I am hoping I can get away without pulling the dash. It's not a good situation. The brake booster is a massive Cobra unit and I had to massage a few things to get it in. I really hope it comes out without a hassle.

Check your PM box. Actually I'll post em here too...might as well add to the public KB

Hey - just wanted to let you know that I fixed the old girl up. I used a piece of angle iron like you suggested. I think the piece I used was 3/16" thick. I bolted it to the lip above the adjuster and a few inches below the adjuster. I will get a pic tomorrow. The clutch hasn't felt that good in years - nice and smooth. I also don't have to go the full travel of the pedal anymore to get it into gear. All that flex was causing some serious issues.

Finally, sorry for the massive delay...so busy lately, just a simple point and shoot! Well...go to the garage I rent, bring it home, then point and shoot LOL

It's just bolted on with self-tapper bolts or something. The firewall adjuster sits against it for support, and there's some adhesive gooped there as well. It has a threaded adjustment on the fork to make up for that being unusable.

That angle iron does the job nicely. It bridges the wall a good distance and you made it hign enough where the firewall is strong. Being it pulls against the firewall you have plenty of area to accommodate strength. That is a nice FIX!! Clean quick and dirty as we say in the shop> Good luck

Or you can go hydraulic.
But that will do the job, and can be done in just a little while. Maybe I should have someone push my clutch in while I watch my firewall....mine is a PITA to engage a coupla gears...

My approach was a bit different. I will get pics of it as soon as Hurricane Sandy goes away.

It definitely works. You could really feel (and hear!) the flex in the silver car, this thing, with as stupidly stiff as this clutch pressure plate is (yeah let's build a 350 horse motor and put a "550 horse" clutch in), the whole thing is  solid.