Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Misc Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 04:12:06 PM

Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 04:12:06 PM
In the morning, when I go to start the Sport, for the last 3 days, it just turns over ....over and over, but won't start, then, after a few minutes, it finally does start, and runs rough. Once I drive it for a few minutes, it does fine, and starts fine for the rest of the day. I pulled the fuel pump and changed the strainer, the pump seems fine, especially since once I drive the car for a bit, all the power is there. Swapped the TPS, no change...all the plug wires are good, the distributor hasn't moved. The idle seems fine.....once I get past the rough running condition. Any ideas. I haven't run codes yet, but will tomorrow.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Haystack on January 22, 2012, 04:26:24 PM
I would run codes first. Chesk your ground by the battery under the starter solinoid. Maybe the ect sensor.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 22, 2012, 04:43:45 PM
temp sensor?.....
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 04:43:51 PM
I'll check the ground. It would seem if it's bad it would give me issues all the time, not just upon early morning starting.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 22, 2012, 04:53:11 PM
if the sensor is out of range like  mine have gone... it's hard to start when it's cold, until it warms up.  I've gone through 3 or 4 in my cougar
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 04:58:34 PM
ECT? Water temp sensor on the front driver side of the intake?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 05:03:37 PM
I'll grab one in the morning.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 22, 2012, 05:30:37 PM
that's the one... You can test it on a meter to see if it's out of range
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 05:30:54 PM
Wait, I AM thinking about the right sensor aren't I? (been a little distracted lately).
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 22, 2012, 05:33:08 PM
yep, you can test it with a meter to see if it's out of range... the code will come up too for being out of range if it's the problem
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 22, 2012, 05:35:41 PM
I loaned my tester. I'll just go get one. If it doesn't fix it, then I have a new sensor anyway.LOL. Give me 15 minutes......I'll be right back.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 22, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
lol... ok
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 07:58:38 AM
Sorry for the delay. As soon as I left here yesterday, I ran down and got the new sensor. I'll know if it helped in about half an hour, then I'll report back.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 08:31:23 AM
BAM !!!! Started right up. That just may have been the cure. Thanks a lot for the input.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Haystack on January 23, 2012, 10:17:29 AM
Run codes to see if its in your stored memory. Pick up a cheepie $1.99 volt meter at harbor freight next time your there, and loan that one out.

And the ect stands for engine coolant temp sensor.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 10:37:23 AM
Yeah, I'm with it now. I know what it stands for, but after the past two weeks I've had, my mind has been in extreme overdrive. I wouldn't have thought of that sensor without you mentioning it. I will run codes this afternoon. I just got a new battery for the ol' girl as well. Hopefully that's it for a while. Money isn't growing on trees around here.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Haystack on January 23, 2012, 01:17:52 PM
True, but tax time is comming soon.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 01:56:49 PM
No paycheck or tax money goes to the Sport.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 23, 2012, 03:20:06 PM
I knew it was that sensor....
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Haystack on January 23, 2012, 03:26:01 PM
I didn't, just a lucky guess. I've never even seen one go bad. To rule it out if I didn't have a volt meter, I would have swapped it with the act.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 23, 2012, 03:32:37 PM
I've gone through enough of them to know that's usually the problem...
happened almost every other year when I was driving it all the time. the vert is also doing it, but I haven't bothered to change it yet..
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 05:38:50 PM
It was $9.99 at Autozone. Lifetime warranty. Today while driving, the car's temp gauge looked as though the Sport was overheating. I figured the sensor...so, I re-replaced it, and now all is good, no starting issues, and no false over heating episodes. I also swapped the front brakes, washed the car, waxed it, vacuum and installed the new floor mats. If the weather holds out tomorrow, I'm installing the new roller rockers (gotta send off the 1.6's to their new home), then watch TV all day long.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Chrome on January 23, 2012, 06:55:38 PM
I haven't ever seen one cause a problem, but it makes sense that it would. I have seen gas milage suffer from an old one. ECT and O2 sensors tend to gunk up after a while, and although it may not be bad enough to throw a code, it could be enough to affect gas mileage. Just a little FYI.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 23, 2012, 07:54:21 PM
O2 sensors are on my list of things to do. Along with TV watching, and extreme chillaxin'.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 25, 2012, 06:13:00 PM
It went two days and perfect. then today, same issue again. Maybe the sending unit is bad ????
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 25, 2012, 08:35:49 PM
check the codes Vinnie...
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 25, 2012, 08:36:29 PM
hope it's not a wiring problem
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 25, 2012, 11:36:10 PM
Codes. I forgot to check the codes. Tomorrow for sure.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 25, 2012, 11:36:35 PM
Quote from: daminc;378832
hope it's not a wiring problem

I am TRULY going to pretend I did NOT just hear that.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Chrome on January 25, 2012, 11:44:10 PM
Come on Vinnie. An electrical problem on the sport is just what we need! It would give us all something to work together on instead of fighting with each other.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 07:52:18 AM
Quote from: Chrome;378861
Come on Vinnie. An electrical problem on the sport is just what we need! It would give us all something to work together on instead of fighting with each other.

I wish you were temporarily standing within two feet of me right this very second.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 26, 2012, 08:20:01 AM
Vinnie, get your meter back and check the old sensors if you still have them.... I'll post the ranges for them later..
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 08:28:46 AM
Thanks.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Chuck W on January 26, 2012, 08:37:53 AM
I was going to chime in originally and say that you should check to see how quickly your fuel pressure is bleeding down, or if fuel is still in the rails (even with no pressure).  After it seemed "fixed" I decided not to say anything.

Could be a bad check-valve in the pump.  Bad regulator perhaps?

Put a FP gauge on it and see what it does during starting and after leaving it sit.  It could be bleeding down completely if it sits too long, and thus taking longer to start as the fuel lines and rail fill back up.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 26, 2012, 08:58:55 AM
good point.... and if the old sensors are still in the working range, that sounds like your next move now.. I should also be doing that to mine too. it has random start problems also
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 12:51:30 PM
I'll go check the rail shortly. I have to get a gauge.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 03:09:28 PM
Also, once the car is warmed up in the morning, it's great. I can come home, let the Sport sit all day long, then it's still fine later in the day. Weird.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 26, 2012, 04:08:29 PM
the vert actually kinda does the same thing.... first start is brutal to keep it running, until it warms up. then the rest of the day is fine.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 05:07:47 PM
I just don't get it.....yet.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Chrome on January 26, 2012, 07:23:59 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;378877
I wish you were temporarily standing within two feet of me right this very second.

If I were standing 2 ft away from u I would not have said it. lol. Honestly, I don't want you to have any problems with the sport. It is my favorite car on this forum. I love all the modifications you have done and all of them you plan to do. When I start modifying mine, I will pay very close attention to your bird.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: 50tbrd88 on January 26, 2012, 08:12:02 PM
Fuel press regulator was my 1st thought...good luck getting the Sport back in fighting shape Vinnie.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 08:36:21 PM
If it were the FPR (I have an adjustable Kirban on there), it seems like it would malfunction all the time, not just the morning. All through the day, driven frequently, all is fine. After sitting for 8 hours throughout the day, still O.K. Only when it's early in the morning. Cold?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 08:39:12 PM
I have a stock FPR in the garage. I can try that.

I also have a new fuel pump in route.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: Chrome on January 26, 2012, 10:09:15 PM
Fuel pressure could be low. When it's cold engines require more fuel. Once the engine warms up it could still be running on the lean side and not cause any problems that could be noticed. If your fuel pressure is actually good, I would be looking at the ignition module. Cold causes contraction. The connection points in the module could be contracting and no longer touching. Once they warm up, they expand and touch, resulting in a normal running condition.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 26, 2012, 10:54:15 PM
I'll check that as well. I have a lifetime warranty on the old module. Gotta get me a fuel pressure gauge.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 27, 2012, 07:03:09 PM
Had no time for anything to day.

The Sport was a little cranky again early this morning, but after about a 10 minute warm up, all was good. Idle, half throttle, blazing the tires from a dead stop on Main street just to see the pretty black stripes left  behind as I looked in the rear view mirror. Great all day.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: ZondaC12 on January 27, 2012, 08:38:09 PM
Yeah you definitely need to check codes and fuel pressure to rule that out. Obviously the system has the pressure it needs for maximum fuel need under WOT, etc. But leakdown is possible as said. And don't worry, that gauge is so worth buying. Should be like $40-$50, and you wouldn't think so but you'll use it many a time again lol. And if anyone knows that you have it, they'll be your new best friend LOL. Ask me how I know...
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 27, 2012, 08:57:19 PM
When I buy the gauge, it's going on the fuel rail, and not coming back off. For now, no gauge. Funds for the Sport are tied up or gone now. They always come back around though. I was busy like crazy again today. Won't be tomorrow. I'm adjusting the rockers in the morning when the sun comes up, then I'll have the codes checked. Also finishing the O2 harness and installing the sensors.....as I've been saying for DAYS now. HEY !!! I'm not doing anything right now. Hellooooooo harness. Updates as they happen.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 27, 2012, 09:13:02 PM
Vinnie, did you get that package the other day?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 27, 2012, 09:40:00 PM
It got here the other day, but I just got it about 40 minutes ago. Alex brought it in and forgot to tell me.LOL. THANKS A LOT !!! Waiting on lifters now. I'll grab gaskets early next week, then should be ready to work.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 27, 2012, 11:18:19 PM
lol.... did you open it?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: thunderjet302 on January 27, 2012, 11:41:05 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;379041
Also finishing the O2 harness and installing the sensors.....as I've been saying for DAYS now.

So wait you don't have the O2 sensors hooked up? If so there's your problem...
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: ZondaC12 on January 28, 2012, 03:07:51 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;379041
When I buy the gauge, it's going on the fuel rail, and not coming back off. For now, no gauge. Funds for the Sport are tied up or gone now. They always come back around though. I was busy like crazy again today. Won't be tomorrow. I'm adjusting the rockers in the morning when the sun comes up, then I'll have the codes checked. Also finishing the O2 harness and installing the sensors.....as I've been saying for DAYS now. HEY !!! I'm not doing anything right now. Hellooooooo harness. Updates as they happen.


Ooooooh okay you're gonna get a permanent one to bolt on. I keep forgetting they...MAKE those lol. Even better, not like it's even capable of being lent!
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 28, 2012, 07:52:58 AM
I've been looking at one too. after it wouldn't start because of a kinked line one time, and my pump dying another, (before my first start).... I'm paranoid about that happening again..... lol
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 10:20:13 AM
Quote from: daminc;379051
lol.... did you open it?

Um................Wellllll........................
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 10:20:41 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;379054
So wait you don't have the O2 sensors hooked up? If so there's your problem...

They are hooked up, but I'm swapping them out for new ones.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 10:21:00 AM
Quote from: ZondaC12;379058
Ooooooh okay you're gonna get a permanent one to bolt on. I keep forgetting they...MAKE those lol. Even better, not like it's even capable of being lent!

Yeah, it screws on to the fuel rail.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 03:48:29 PM
O.K.,I didn't start the Sport til after 12 today. It was great, started right up, no issues. But early in the a.m, issues. I haven't run codes yet, but will as soon as I can. Going to adjust the rockers rights now. Then the O2 sensors, then, we'll see where we stand with it.

Oh, while driving, when I'd come to a stop at a light, the tach goes from 1000 to 1500....back to 1000, up to 15oo....slowly back and forth. I'm going to swap the TPS and see what happens.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 28, 2012, 04:29:41 PM
what's the temp diff from morning to afternoon?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 09:20:05 PM
20 degrees today. 34 this morning to about 55 or so.
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: daminc on January 28, 2012, 09:35:58 PM
I wonder if temp is still your problem? was it warmer the 2 days it started in the morning?
Title: Early morning starting issue with the Sport....
Post by: vinnietbird on January 28, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
It was about the same as the days it didn't start.