Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Hey all,

I had the luck of inheriting my grandmother's 85 Cougar (3.8). Beautiful car, with under 60,000 miles on it.

When I received the car I noticed it was running a little rough, as in the engine seemed to studder when I hit the gas. Now I must say that I'm not too car savvy, and I just assumed that it needed a simple tune up and I honestly wasn't in any rush because I have another car that I use to commute with. So I drove it every now and again, still sluggish. Finally, one day I took it out for a spin and it was hurting really bad. The engine was studdering like crazy. barely got it around the block and back to my house. It sat in the driveway for about a week and when I went back out to start it it would turn over but wouldn't run. I thought it might be the fuel pump, checked the pressure but it was ok. Started replacing plugs and there was watery liquid covering the plug.

After a little research I think maybe its a bad intake manifold or a blown head gasket....

I really don't know because I'm no mechanic. lol. Any thoughts????

I fully intend to take the car to a mechanic to figure it out, but I really don't want to dump a bunch of money on a car that I rarely drive.

Thought I'd get some advice from some people who may be more versed in these things than I am. Ideas and suggestions welcome!!!

Here's some eye candy...

How old is the gas?

Not a PETRO problem, I put gas in it a week or two before it stopped running. Also, I went through at least a tank cruising around in it before it stopped running...

Error codes is where I always start

Error Codes, yes, I assume when I get it to a mechanic they will check this.

I know its not the gas or the fuel pump, as I had a friend check it out. He did check into it as much as he knew how(He's a Chevy guy). While replacing the plugs he noticed there was water on one of the plugs, and said it could be a bad sign..... So, I dunno...

You can check the trouble codes on these cars for free with a test light or you can get a code reader for less than $25. I use the code reader just because it's so convenient.

I've got an 84 (3.8L) -- am original owner -- and all I can say is the 3.8L are subject to head gasket failures.  Search this board or look for my name and I believe you will find a lot of posts in this regard. 
They are tough to fix and may not last because of the "poor head design" and even if you could find a "new" head, it would not override the design flaw.  If it were me -- car looks like in great condition--
I would see about putting in a V8.  There is also a guy in Toronto -- have to search net -- who appear to specialize in Cougar 3.8L that may be able to assist you.  Only queried him after I had my engine
rebuilt and had some other issues.

Yeah, sounds like the head gasket. The same thing happened to my 3.8 Sable a few years back. I was at a drive-through ordering food when I noticed the car was starting to shake a little. By the time I got home coolant was in the exhaust. It never started again after that. It only had 88,000 miles on it.

Yea, I'm pretty sure from my research and a buddy of mine taking a look at it that it is a head gasket issue. I took the car to a mechanic yesterday and am waiting to hear back about it today.

When I took it to the shop, the first thing the mechanic asked how attached to the car I am. He hinted at buying it. LOL

Anyways, he's gonna diagnose it and get me an estimate, maybe make an offer. lol

Don't want to burst your bubble, but the question probably had more to do with how much he could charge you.  If your attached, your willing to pay more.

 
Well it's a good thing I told him I wasn't that attached...

He contacted me today and said it was either a blown head gasket or a cracked head. He ran a compression test and two of the cylinders aren't getting compression.

So I asked him how much to fix the problem and he said around $1000. Now I really don't know what a fair price is for this type of service. Does this price sound about right or is he high balling me? Seems expensive to me, but what do I know?

He also asked what I wanted to get out of it if I were to sell. Any ideas on a rough estimate?

The car isn't running, due to the head problem. Otherwise its in good condition. Roughly 58,000 miles. Body in good shape minus a rust bubble near the rear wheel well.

So at this point I'm trying to decide if I want to put money into a secondary car or just sell it.

Decisions. Decisions.

Appreciate all the input!

Throw a v-8 in it. Get better mpg, more power, and have a much more reliable engine.

I had the same exact problem when I got my current '84.

My mechanic confirmed that the block was not cracked...he thought it was just the head gaskets.
But after he reassembled everything (of course) and started it up, water poured out of both heads so we knew that it was just a head issue.

I bought a pair of NEW castings, complete, from Clearwater Cylinder Head Inc. (http://www.cylinder-heads.com).
Best thing to do is call them and tell them the year of your car. They may tell you it's the 'carbureted' head but it's CFI, that's okay.
Should be around $150 each.
I mean, this is a steal for brand new, complete heads. They are of excellent quality and come with a 2-year unlimited mile warranty. I don't know of any other place that can beat that deal.

So $300 in parts, see if the mechanic will do the work for around $500, and you're set.
At this point you know what the problem is, so $1000 or under will fix it.

A V8 swap is tempting but it is a lot more work and money. You have to change suspension, wiring harnesses, maybe the transmission...to fix a pair of cylinder heads?! Plus you get to keep the car as much original as possible.

Seems pretty straightforward to me...

I would agree with haystack. If you're gonna put that kind of money into it i would rather put a 5.0 in. Also i would do the compression test myself. This guy wants to buy your car so he might just be telling you its shot so he can get it cheaper. Did he say it had zero compression in those cylinders? Did he do a leakdown test to determine if the head gasket was the reason for low/no compression? If any cylinders have zero compression there might be something else going on besides the head gasket.

orlosz

Re Keeping or Getting Rid of the Car

1)  If you have a place to work, the tools, and the knowledge, I'd try and repair it.

2)  If you don't have the place to work, the tools, the knowledge and are dependent on others I'd get rid of it. 
    The car is almost 30 years old.  Parts are harder to come by, and even in 1984 they used a lot of plastic.
    For example the shift indicator pointer for (1,2, D, R, P) is plastic and the band that holds it and controls it movement is plastic.
    Ford design makes them tough to repair, and finding one -- who knows.
    ZDDP is required for the oil to lubricate the Cam and the Federal government has gradually required the ZDDP levels to be eliminated from the oil.
    The causes either the need for an additive (more $$$$) or a potential Cam failure (BIG $$$)

3)  If you just can't part with the car -- emotional thing -- then go to your local junior college and take auto course.
    Will give you an appreciation for what tools you need and what to do, and then you can decide to keep or sell.



EricCoolCats:  You sure those were NEW castings?  When talked to Clearwater about two years ago, they said only thing they ever had for the 84  (3.8L) was reworked heads.

 
I just got off the phone with Clearwater...

The castings for my 85' (3.8L)  are fully tested re-worked castings that come with a 2 year warranty. $155 each. $30 ground shipping each.

I think I'm just gonna put the money into the car. Still unsure if the problem is the head gasket or if there is a cracked head.

I haven't been able to get a hold of the mechanic to see if he did a leak-down test...

Hopefully, that will give me some more info to work with...

As much as I'd like too, at this point I don't think I want to swap the engine. Mainly due to the cost of doing so compared to fixing the problem on the 3.8L.

Appreciate all the feedback!

My castings were Hecho en Mexico and were brand new looking. Could have been reworked. It doesn't really matter...that's the closest we'll get to new heads anyhow. I see the pricing went up a bit since I got mine in '07; they're still relatively inexpensive in comparison.

orlosz:

Suggest you read me edited post right above your last two posts before committing.

A head swap really isn't that involved on the 83-87 v-6's. A basic $30 tool set from harbor freight would get you probably all the tools you would need to complete it. If you have worked on cars, its a 3 hour job. Get some buddies and a $12 pack and get it done. Personally though, I like the v-8, even in stock form better. I would swap it if it were me, but your car looks great, and nothing wrong with keeping the 3.8 either.

Glad too see you're gonna fix it.  It is in nice shape and probably worth saving.

Its not that I don't want the OP to save his 85, just based on his original post, I'm gathering he is fairly young, doesn't have a lot of money to waste. 
Doing the heads may solve his problem.  But for arguement sake, lets say the coolant leaked inside the engine.  Now we have a potential bearing issue.
Don't know how long vehicle has sat, before he got it, so maybe some "potential" rusted tank issues, and possible need for a new fuel pump.
If OP can't do it himself, then costs go up.    I think he's looking at just putting $1000 into the heads (heads + mechanic) and then NO other problems
May work, but not likely.    That's why they call FORD -- Fix Or Repair Daily.
I rather see him take his $300, go to local community college, learn something about autos, then he can fix it himself and anything else that might go wrong.

Minus the torque wrench and 1/2 inch breaker bar. but yeah, I'm agreeing with eric and haystack, do the heads.