well last week i traded my 88 thunderbird(turn key) for an 87 mustang roller :punchballs: just did'nt have it in me to cut up such a clean tbird. kinda sucks cause i regret it but guess ill be on the prowl for another bird come spring hopefully.. sorry had to rant
pic of the bird
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/olds377/tbird46464.jpg)
pic of the stang, i am use it as a grudge car n for some street action
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/olds377/2012-01-07_15-53-36_661.jpg)
That's a mighty fine roller. How complete/modded is it?
xx
notch came with 6 point cage,coil overs, all the suspension is done tubular k member, th400 rebuilt with a 5k stall convertor,gauges,5 point harness, electric(sp) fuel pump 2 fuel cells,headers an full exhaust... oh ya its set up for sbc:burnout: came with the draglites an still got alot of life on the 28X10.5 tires
So you traded a driving car in decent shape for a good looking empty car? Do you at least have a motor for it or anything?
i been hearing this alot lmao an what do you mean by empty? everything is hooked up the motor is goin in saturday than its good to go.. motor is a sbc 400. just didnt wanna tear the bird apart an buy all the parts to do the same thing to
I think it's a good trade. Shame about the engine choice fail :toilet:
gotta use what i have laying around just so happens it sittin on the engine stand.
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm290/olds377/2012-01-05_16-37-28_786.jpg)
Is
tom everything is done, i got the motor professionaly built(Henry Jackson Racing Engines) lets just say the #'s def impressed me :)
i hope the bird doesn't meet the same demise the notch did :(
but that car looks familiar.. i think i may have seen it at atco or etown before?
shadow, the car has been at atco sevral times he texted me pics of it there, also he wanted a street car he could cruise around n have fun. he texted me like a day after saying he was converting it to carb n puttin a plate on it..
Th
maaaaaan.. converting to carb is 1 thing.. but a plate can only mean 1 thing (because we all know he's not talking about a restrictor plate!).. that's almost as bad as putting a sbc in it :(
i'd love to get my hands on a 400 for my dad's cutlass when he hands over the keys.. problem is, they're hard to come by these days ;(
If you already had the motor, I guess that changes some things. Sbc ain't a bad way to go, but not the way I would.
You should be looking for an Oldsmobile 400 (1965-1967 is the only one to use, if going 400) for that Cutlass, not a Chivy 400. Not that they're any easier to come by.
it's a 79.. it already has chevy drivetrain under it.. it's a 1st year g-body, or else i'd be looking for a 350 or 455 rocket
455 is way over rated.
i like em, but i wouldn't go crazy throwing performance parts at it either.. my 71 supreme had the 'red' motor in it.. i never got to drive it, as i only owned it a very short time, but with it just sitting there, idling, you could tell it meant business.. wish i never sold that car :mad:
455s are torque monsters. They're the only engine I've seen where the torque raises with the horse power, usually the horsepower will pass the torque but not with a 455. A freind of mine races a 68 442 (named RamRod II) with a 650 hp and 670ish foot pound 455 with a stock block and stock ported C-heads. So saying 455s are over rated is rediculous. And he runs high 9.80s low 9.90s 1.60 60 foot.
Agreed. My 72 Cutlass has a high output version of the rocket 350 and that car runs like a raped ape.
Having personally run the Olds 455 and the 425, I can say it's over rated. Most people aren't even aware of the 425's existence. True, it "gives up" 30 cubes to it's bigger brother. But if I were to dump money into another Olds, I'd go find a 425 to build up. I simply like it better. I'm not saying you can't make a 455 run. I've run them, and I like them, I simply saying they're not my first choice. I like the larger diameter lifters, the long rods (7" forged) and the forged crank (something only a VERY FEW 455's ever came with). Unfortunately, be prepared to pay for a 425. Right now, I'd have to pay 5 times what I sold the last two for to replace them.
I've also ran the 330, 350, and the 403. I know they're power monsters. I'm just saying most people go gaga for the 455. It's not the only Olds big block, and in mine opinion, not the best, nor is it the worst (that title is held by the 68-69 400). At even at that, the worst one is still a killer street engine.
i love the 455, simply because i've already owned 1.. if i ever had another early 70's cutlass, that's exactly what i'd put in it, because i missed the chance to build the 1st 1.. i sold it only 3 weeks after buying it, so i could dump money into my old F150.. at the time, that was my number 1 priority, literally.. that truck came before work, sleep and sometimes cigarettes (which i turn into a major, grumpy a**hole without).. i know olds made other great motors, but the 350 rocket and 455 are my 2 favorites
Nice looking Mustang but I hate the idea of another Ford with a chevy in it.
Done right a 455 Olds is bad... A friend had one in a '70 Cutlass with a little head work, cam, headers, 3.90 gear, 3500 stall in the TH 400... Would run low 11s in that 4000Lb beast, plus had good street manors... Grandma could drive it down to the Piggly Wiggly to do her grocery shopping...
As far as the Chevy in the Stang, no big deal...
mustangs are expendable, anyway lol
Bi
My neighbor's dog has more fleas than your neighbor's dog does...
Persnally, I would have just slotted the motor mounts, kept the existing transmission, and swapped the sbc in the thunderbird. Whel someone finally makes the sbc head intake for the sbf I wouldn't have any issues with building one.
you talking about LS heads on a ford block? designing and intake for that setup is a goal i'd like to reach by summer
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i plan on accomplishing that feat sometime before summer, if time allows.. i'd like to run 1 of my 306's as the test motor for the combo, to see if it's really worth the effort.. should be with those massive flow #'s
EDIT: also, headers will be a bit of an issue, as i see it.. because of the ford block design VS the GM block design.. LS headers may create a bit of an issue, because the #1 cyl is on the driver side, which is the reason the intake isn't useable.. not nearly as much as a fab headache, but definitely something that can't be brushed off, as it's likely to cause clearance issues without modification
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I would use a sbf because I have a block sitting at home with 14 miles on a rebuild. If I had $1k for a set of heads, I would just go aftermarket ford, and it wouldn't be an issue. The only problem with the 302 is the 2 bolt mains, but the block will split before the mains give out. As long as your under 500hp n\a, I don't see why you would need to use a sbc, especially considering you can have the same thing with a 351.
why put a sbc in a ford and completely contradict the reason i built the sbf S10? plus, i don't care for the LS motors.. this is where you blab about how 'amazing' they are, but i don't give a rats A-double snakes.. it's the innovation and experimentation of the swap that intrigues me.. if the heads perform as well as statistics say, they should make a SBF quite the powerplant..
and did you get that quote from a bbf tech site, tom? if so, i read it to the end a while ago.. the guy who was supposedly 'building' the motor disappeared into thin air.. which means he was just blowing smoke up everyone's 'you know what'
quoye
Max Chevy: We’d heard about World adapting LS1 heads on a Ford small-block. Is that true?
BM: Yeah, we did it. That’s our new Man O’ War 10-degree aluminum casting. It’s basically LS7 architecture. If you look real close at the Chevy and the Ford they are mirror images. They share almost the same bolt pattern except that the intakes and exhausts are positioned opposite of one another.
bill mitchell is the man.. he charges an arm, a leg, a testicle and your right eye for a motor, though
Ye
xx
Because a sbc head would cost less then 1/4 of what an aftermarket sbf head costs. The sbf is done at 500 fwhp, and if it lives past that, its on borrowed time. That is no secret. The real problem is the intake. Supposedly the clevlend blocks deck height is close enough that you can adapt a ls1 intake. But I do not have a clevland block. I don't have a chevy block, and few if any people that would consider an ls swap would have one either.
My entire post was referring to how similar the motors are. Pretending you had a 351, which are generally good for up to 800hp, and you could get the chevy heads to bolt on, then why go through the effort of swapping out the motor? Even a sbf distributor drops right in a ls motor with a truck intake. You don't even have to swap computers, wires, sensors, anything really if you were to look at it. Even the bellhousings are identiical, minus one bolt hole.
Basically, imho, a 302/347 will do anything an ls motor will do for similar cost that an ls motor could, up to 500hp. Which is why there is no real reason to swap between the motors unless you want to make over 500hp.
Hope that helps.
Eve
St
why not drop an LSx in, instead of dropping on the heads? i'll tell you why.. SBC POWERED FORDS MAKE ME PUKE ;) and i don't like the LSx because it was based off FORD'S small block design.. MEANING, GM ran out of options and took a look at what other manufacturers had to offer.. yes, they made changes.. who wouldn't? if ford offered a great flowing head like the LS head, this wouldn't be a conversation, at all.. but in my eyes, it's not fair to compare the 2, as they weren't on the assembly lines at the same time.. the LS came AFTER ford nixed the OHV 302 in the mustangs/birds and jumped head first onto 'perfecting' their mod motors.. if ford had continued the OHV 5.0 in their 'performance' cars, i'm sure it would have been right up there with the LSx head flow rate, etc etc..
So what your saying is gm gave up and copied an older "out dated" design because it was better then what they had been using for 50 years, and that's why they shoulodn't be compared? Andd akso the ls motors started when, 97 98? The ford 302 was in production until at least 2001 in the explorer and moutaineer. Its funny how the more like the sbf the sbc gets, the better it is.
And tom, I am not going to spoon feed you anymore. Your smart enough to find it on your own. I also never brought anything up timing wise, so ?
wx
LMAO Tom. If your goal is to be the fastest out there then good for you. It'll never happen. IMHO, that's not what the hobby is about. There will always be somebody faster. Don't get yourself caught up in all that. "Speed has no bearing on your style".
Ix
The only reason to install GM LS heads on a Ford motor is poor planning.
Tom, I don't think I could be more clear, as to why I would use the ls heads on a sbf, instead of throwing a sbc at it. But I will try one more time.
I persononally have a rebuilt motor. Nothin wrong with it, 17 miles, its a sbf. If I could spend $300 on a set of heads and another $2-$300 for adaptar plates or a intake to run them, instead of spending $1k+ on a set of aftermarket ford heads, I personally would do it. It would save me hundreds, if not thousands if I could just run the ls head, and a converision intake. Especially if I could run an ls1 intake on top of it. I would like to go faster then stock, I have no hp number in mind. I have no engine size or type in mind. I would just like to have fun driving my car. Its not to impress you, or to get attention at a show. I would actually never take a car to a show I don't think.
So to re-cap. I would run ls heads because they are dirt cheap, esentially bolt on, and are as good, maybe even better, then a set of aftermarket heads, and I have a new rebuilt sbf sitting here right now. The only thing stopping me is the lack of an intake, and the custom cam. If someone made an intake, I am sure I could swing the extra $30 for a custom cam, or run the intake through the exhaust if I am making my own intake anyways.
xx
Just cant beat the old iron and oldschool engineering in the Olds and Pontiac big blocks
But anyway I really, really, really love the G-body Monte Carlo in the picture. Is it an LS with the 305? There is your full framed building block!
http://guerragroup.com/camshaft_help.htm
Custome cam for $25 extra. Comp cams will even make a flat tappet custom for free, matched to your specs. You have to pay extra for them to spec you out one. However, I don't know if a blank is availiable, or if they would have to do something stupid like use areverse rotation marine cam. The internet will be a great tool for you, when you learn to use it. Google is your friend, and you mind is like a paracute, it only works when its open. Just because you don't completely agree with what I say, doesn't mean I am wrong in every way.
Fly cutting pistons, again, is not a big deal...
I also never said I was going to swap ls heads on, I just said that you could. Once again, reading comprhension is your freinds. When you learn to use it, it will be a great tool.
Why would you need a bigger headbolt thena 1/2 inch? A set of 351 heads bolt on with a 1/2 inch bolt, but thousands of people, if not all of them, are using a 7\16ths head bolt, like they were from the factory. I don't know anyone that would waste the money on stepping up a head bolt, for no reason, on a stock block.
I have also seen maybe 2 or 3 people that have started to swap on ls heads, not every tom dick and harry with a sbf, and they were all after hp on the cheap.
And guess what? If you could just swap on a set of $250 heads and make 400hp, it would be a good swap. Imagine being able to almost split a block n\a using only junk yard parts. Its called hot rodding. One day maybe you will hear about it.
If I was to do it, the only real problem would be the intake, once again. If I had the welding capabilities to do a set of headers, I don't see why you couldn't mate up either adaptar plates, or make your own intake using exhaust parts. If I was going to adapt an existing intake, I would probably start with a clevor intake, but I haven't mesured or done any math on anything to see what is closest. If you would like to throw a set of ls heads on a sbf and make some mesurements, go ahead.
Let me know if you have any more basic questions that can be answered with a google search. I know its hard to figure out the first couple times.
Yes, I 'm quite sure this is a quite common mod :crazy:
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That I can agree with (swapping the motor as a whole) although I think it's blasphemous and unnecessary. To each his own.
Tom, what WOULD swapping a set of factory LS heads net on an otherwise stock sbf (302)? I can't agree with you here. The limit is the block and the Ford heads weather they be aftermarket or re-worked can make enough power to split the weak factory block.
WOW 6 pages lmao
is an LS 6cylinder 50,000 miles on it its my younger bros car(his first car)
oh ya possible change of plans might be putting a friends BBC in it for couple months