Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 30, 2011, 10:33:42 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 30, 2011, 10:33:42 PM
Here is my wiped cam lobe and lifter. Has anyone else had a cam lobe wiped on 3.8L V6? I don't recall seeing a cam lobe wiped on a 3.8L V6 before. I worked in a Ford dealer in the mid 80s and then again in the mid 90s. I had a heck of a time finding a cam. I have it torn down almost cleaned up. Just waiting on parts now. Does anyone know when they started putting a timing chain tensioner on the 3.8? 
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 02:41:51 AM
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 02:41:51 AM
What year engine, and front wheel drive? All the oils no longer have lubricants for the older solid lifter cams. Diseil oil still has the lubricant additives and will help out a lot. There.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Beau on December 31, 2011, 03:45:13 AM
Post by: Beau on December 31, 2011, 03:45:13 AM
Quote from: Fordracer08;376541
Here is my wiped cam lobe and lifter. Has anyone else had a cam lobe wiped on 3.8L V6? I don't recall seeing a cam lobe wiped on a 3.8L V6 before. I worked in a Ford dealer in the mid 80s and then again in the mid 90s. I had a heck of a time finding a cam. I have it torn down almost cleaned up. Just waiting on parts now. Does anyone know when they started putting a timing chain tensioner on the 3.8?
Yes, I've seen one at the local machine shop...oil pump went bad, spun mains etc. The 3.8 got the time chain tensioner in '89, regardless of FWD or RWD...don't forget the '87 3.8 blocks did NOT have the balance shaft, the '88 blocks DID, and then in '89 they removed them again. Weren't used again till '99, and that was in the Mustang only (AFAIK).
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 31, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 31, 2011, 02:11:47 PM
It is an 86 T-Bird. The engine has 69K original miles and is very clean inside. I have owned two other vehicles with a 3.8L V6. Another 86 T-Bird and a 85 LTD. Both had 200K miles on when I sold them. I was only ever in those engines to replace intake gaskets. I have a 91 F-150 with a 5.0 and it has 149K on it and is doing good with its flat tappet cam. I bought this T-Bird after Thanksgiving this year. It ran great but I only drove it two days and it developed a miss which turned out to be the cam. It is just kind of strange. Everything else seems OK at this point. I am replacing the timing chain, gears and thrust button too. A 90 year old lady owned the car. She bought it new. She was giving up driving and wanted to sell it. I thought the 3.8 got the timing chain tensioner somewhere in the late 80s but I wasn't sure. I believe the 3.8 in the Taurus got a balance shaft too at some point. Thanks.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 04:40:06 PM
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 04:40:06 PM
91 f150 with 5.0 would have hydralic roller, as all 86 and up 5.0's did. Only other thing I could think of would be bad valvetrain, or like mentioned, oil flow.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 31, 2011, 06:24:51 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on December 31, 2011, 06:24:51 PM
I believe the 5.0 in trucks didn't get a roller cam until 93 or 94. I did check the valve guide to see if it was tight. It looks to be OK. No other wear found in the valvetrain (rocker, pushrod, etc.). It is a strange deal. Hopefully everything is good from here on out.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 06:30:06 PM
Post by: Haystack on December 31, 2011, 06:30:06 PM
All of our cougars/birds/crownvics and everything else with a 5.0 got hydralic rollers, generally in 85. I said 86 because 85 was a transition year. The 351 (5.8) was the engine that did not always have provisions for a hydralic roller until 94 or so. Around that time, most if not all blocks had the dog bones and casting for them.
Your lifter is what wiped out the cam. It would almost have to have more wear then the others.
Your lifter is what wiped out the cam. It would almost have to have more wear then the others.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jrad235 on December 31, 2011, 11:18:31 PM
Post by: jrad235 on December 31, 2011, 11:18:31 PM
That's what did in my 'original"(Rebuilt) engine in 2008.. It started knocking like crazy one night, and when I tore it down I found almost a quarter of a lifter missing, but I don't think the cam was wiped totally flat, but it was definitely damaged. Since that was about the weakest 3.8 to roll off the line I retrofitted an '03 3.8 in it's place instead of rebuilding.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 12:57:49 AM
please dont forget to replace the oil pump presure regulator which is inside the timing chain cover.
The oil pump is external on the 3.8L and within the cover is a freeze plug you pop out to replace the valve.
It is likely the reason you lost some lube, got jammed up in the aluminum cover and restricted oil flow.
I had great luck on the 3.8L but i didnt drive them like they were all mighty power dogs either, I drove them like they were intended and that was for transportation to and from. I always got the same mpg as a 5.8 though oddly enough.
The oil pump is external on the 3.8L and within the cover is a freeze plug you pop out to replace the valve.
It is likely the reason you lost some lube, got jammed up in the aluminum cover and restricted oil flow.
I had great luck on the 3.8L but i didnt drive them like they were all mighty power dogs either, I drove them like they were intended and that was for transportation to and from. I always got the same mpg as a 5.8 though oddly enough.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 12:58:58 AM
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 12:58:58 AM
Quote from: Haystack;376556
What year engine, and front wheel drive? All the oils no longer have lubricants for the older solid lifter cams. Diseil oil still has the lubricant additives and will help out a lot. There.
Rotella oil and i get a long because of this, they still have ZDDP
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 12:15:32 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 12:15:32 PM
There was alot of material worn from the lifter. I swear it was almost worn through to the cavity inside the lifter. I did disassemble the oil pump to check it's condition. It still looked pretty good. I believe the majority of the material worn from the cam & lifter ended up in the oil filter. I had changed the oil and filter right after the miss started as I had heard a lifter clatter randomly. I thought maybe I had a lifter collapsing. The engine maintained oil pressure throughout the whole ordeal.
jcassity can you purchase the pressure regulator valve separately? I always seemed to get 20+ mpg with my 3.8s I have owned. I didn't abuse them they were my daily driver.
Hey jrad265 what was it like to switch a split port engine into an 83 T-Bird? I see though you have a carb. Right? How did you adapt the carb?
Haystack You may be right. I will have to refresh my memory on when the roller cam got used in what engines. I always remember the Mustang usage but am cloudy on the rest.
jcassity can you purchase the pressure regulator valve separately? I always seemed to get 20+ mpg with my 3.8s I have owned. I didn't abuse them they were my daily driver.
Hey jrad265 what was it like to switch a split port engine into an 83 T-Bird? I see though you have a carb. Right? How did you adapt the carb?
Haystack You may be right. I will have to refresh my memory on when the roller cam got used in what engines. I always remember the Mustang usage but am cloudy on the rest.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jrad235 on January 01, 2012, 12:21:28 PM
Post by: jrad235 on January 01, 2012, 12:21:28 PM
I love the split-port, but it definitely involves a bit of work. My car was actually carbed from the factory, only it was a 2Bbl. I am in the process of re-installing fuel injection on it for various reasons. The main problem with doing the swap the way I did is that the manifold I used is built for high rpms, so it is a touch gutless off the line with a stick, but once you get it spinning she really sings.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 01:29:15 PM
Post by: jcassity on January 01, 2012, 01:29:15 PM
Quote from: Fordracer08;376664
jcassity can you purchase the pressure regulator valve separately? I always seemed to get 20+ mpg with my 3.8s I have owned. I didn't abuse them they were my daily driver.
it will come with the gear set.
the oil pump resides directly in front of the oil filter.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 02:13:13 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 02:13:13 PM
jrad235 That's right your 83 would have been carbureted. What intake did you use on the split port? I will be interested in how the whole injection swap turns out for you.
jcassity Where can you get just an oil pump gear set? Most places I have seen sell the timing cover/pump together.
jcassity Where can you get just an oil pump gear set? Most places I have seen sell the timing cover/pump together.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 09:28:02 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 01, 2012, 09:28:02 PM
Hey jcassity, I seen online that Autozone sells oil pump gear sets which includes the relief spring.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 08, 2012, 06:24:30 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 08, 2012, 06:24:30 PM
Well the 3.8 lives again. Got it all back together on Saturday and took it for the first ride. Runs great. At least I accomplished in fixing most of the typical oil leaks in the process of replacing the cam and lifters. Now I will cross my fingers and hope my bad luck with this car are over. I would like to drive and enjoy it.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: jrad235 on January 08, 2012, 10:27:12 PM
Post by: jrad235 on January 08, 2012, 10:27:12 PM
I used the Tom Morana custom aluminum upper intake on my car, but it's a tad involved. I suggest you check my threads, I'm sure one of them says something about it. I'll be sure to let everyone know once I get it going with injection.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 08, 2012, 10:39:13 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on January 08, 2012, 10:39:13 PM
Tom Morana does all the custom V6 racing stuff, Right? I will have to check your threads. Do let us know how the injection swap goes.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: sarjxxx on January 10, 2012, 12:27:50 AM
Post by: sarjxxx on January 10, 2012, 12:27:50 AM
Quote from: jrad235;377282
I used the Tom Morana custom aluminum upper intake on my car, but it's a tad involved. I suggest you check my threads, I'm sure one of them says something about it. I'll be sure to let everyone know once I get it going with injection.
I'm thinking it will actually be easier for you to swap directly (more-or-less) over to the new system than it will be for me to ADAPT to it... Unless you are going stock tbird rather than the MAF setup that matches your engine..Ugh I'm dreading the wiring nightmare that I'm in for when I go MAF... In fact I'm dreading it so hard that in fact when I do the Windstar swap I plan to keep in SD for a while and just do what I gotta do to make the MAP system work with the MAF designed intakes....:hick: Which is definitely something you should consider getting out of the way when you go with EFI, is doing the windstar upper swap right off the bat instead of going mustang intake. I'm sure you'd have no problems getting it under that nice cowl hood of yours;)
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2012, 02:28:26 PM
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2012, 02:28:26 PM
Quote from: Haystack;376603
All of our cougars/birds/crownvics and everything else with a 5.0 got hydralic rollers, generally in 85. I said 86 because 85 was a transition year. The 351 (5.8) was the engine that did not always have provisions for a hydralic roller until 94 or so. Around that time, most if not all blocks had the dog bones and casting for them.
Your lifter is what wiped out the cam. It would almost have to have more wear then the others.
Truck 5.0 engines didn't get the roller cam until 1994.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Fordracer08 on February 06, 2012, 08:20:24 PM
Post by: Fordracer08 on February 06, 2012, 08:20:24 PM
Thanks for the info V8 Demon. I was pretty sure it was after 92.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2012, 09:02:48 PM
Post by: V8Demon on February 06, 2012, 09:02:48 PM
94 wass the first year for full SEFI in the F-series with the 5.0
All previous ones were batch fire. Not only was it a non-roller cam, but it had the same profile as the SO cam....
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/V8Demon/Car%20Tech/stock-cams1.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/V8Demon/Car%20Tech/stock-cams2.jpg)
All previous ones were batch fire. Not only was it a non-roller cam, but it had the same profile as the SO cam....
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/V8Demon/Car%20Tech/stock-cams1.jpg)
(http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk191/V8Demon/Car%20Tech/stock-cams2.jpg)
Title: Hope this may help.
Post by: dw85745 on February 06, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
Post by: dw85745 on February 06, 2012, 10:01:56 PM
Comp Cams has a great discussion on CAM failure and ZDDP.
Attached are some info which might be on interest. The ZDDP is a response I receive from the American Petroleum Institute in 2008.
THe other discussion Oil Pump failure in the 3.8
Attached are some info which might be on interest. The ZDDP is a response I receive from the American Petroleum Institute in 2008.
THe other discussion Oil Pump failure in the 3.8
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: Haystack on February 06, 2012, 11:06:09 PM
Post by: Haystack on February 06, 2012, 11:06:09 PM
Really? I though it was 351's that didn't get them till 94, not both. Sorry if I mislead anyone.
Title: 3.8 V6 cam woes
Post by: V8Demon on February 07, 2012, 08:29:40 AM
Post by: V8Demon on February 07, 2012, 08:29:40 AM
We all make mistakes and you had the right intentions.... No worries. ;)