Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Body/Appearance/Interior => Topic started by: Crash225 on December 12, 2011, 10:08:58 AM

Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on December 12, 2011, 10:08:58 AM
Did anyone ever have this problem. My passenger side window keeps coming off the frame when lowering it. I used epoxy twice to secure it to the plastic "c" in the window frame. The second time it held for about a week then let go again. I'm about to get a bit for glass and drill a hole through it at this point. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Shadow on December 12, 2011, 10:30:25 AM
try that  they sell for the rearview mirror tabs.. i've used it before and it holds up pretty good.. just make sure you clean the epoxy off first
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: T-BirdX3 on December 12, 2011, 11:01:46 AM
http://www.turbotbird.com/faqs/#Door%20Glass%20came%20off%20the%20track%20and%20dropped
^ Tech article on window repair.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: bigbada1 on December 12, 2011, 09:04:05 PM
I was having this problem with my Windows as well. What I did was remove the glass removed the clips that are glued on. Sanded the  out of the glass to clean it and scuff it up really good then JB welded the clips back in place let the JB weld sit over night and pit it back in. Has held up for about a year so far.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: bryan163 on December 12, 2011, 09:39:22 PM
I had the same problem. I was told by a friend who works at an auto glass company to use window-weld. It did the trick. It comes it a caulk tube and is available at auto part stores for around $13.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on December 12, 2011, 11:21:12 PM
Thanks guys. I wish I asked here first. The plastic clips split when I was removing the epoxy. It stuck real good to the plastic, just not the glass. Must be because I didn't scuff up the glass side too.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on December 13, 2011, 05:23:45 AM
You can buy new clips in the dorman/help section. Dril small holes through them, and they are wider. Sand window andclipps with rough sandpaper. Then buy the black tube windsheild adhesive. Give it a couple days to dry, and only do it if its in a warm place. It will not cure below freezing. Really nasty stuff, but holds well, and remains slightly flexible. Wear rubber gloves.

Lube the tracks uup well with white lithium grease and make sure everything is aligned properly. My 86's windows had holes in them. That is how we fixed the windows on them when they came off the tracks. Not sure if the 87-88 glass is the same, but the doors will swap if your desperate, or want to try to use the guts out of them or something.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on November 16, 2013, 01:34:50 PM
Here we go again. Just the other morning it was real cold and the window came of the regulator again. I saw a post by vinnie saying he used marine adhesive from walmart. I had zero luck locating that stuff. The guys at the parts stores suggested two other alternatives: body structure adhesive and also 3m window regulator tape. Does anyone have any experience with these products?

Just for the record, I used the 3M Wind-Weld Super Fast Urethane, sanded the glass and clips, and cleaned them off with rubbing alcohol prior to installing the window. It was warmer than 70deg out and I left it sit for more than a couple of days to cure. I guess this was maybe close to a year ago. What am I doing wrong?
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: vinnietbird on November 16, 2013, 05:41:12 PM
This stuff is a white stick. You break off a piece and knead it til it has a uniform color, then use it.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: vinnietbird on November 16, 2013, 07:10:45 PM
This is the same kind of stuff. Works great. I used it once and never had to do it again. It's been years now.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NAPA-Consumer-Brands-NCB-8277-Epoxy-Adhesive-Water-Weld-2-oz-/261311605831?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd762ac47&vxp=mtr
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on November 16, 2013, 07:32:02 PM
I really do stand by the windshield adhesive. it is designed fir automotive grade glass and plastic as well as metal.

how well did you lube the windows up, and did you use the stock tabs, or the parts store ones? the parts store ones are more then twice the size and work fine
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on November 17, 2013, 03:46:15 PM
Thanks guys. I'm going out there right now to see what exactly happened and to take some pics.

Vinnie, I did see that water weld in the store but I didn't know it was equivalent to what you used. I did use jb weld once but that was without roughing up the glass.

Haystack, yes I'm using the stock tabs. I'm definitely using the parts store ones this time as the stock ones are BEAT. I saw online that it's possible I had the tabs in the wrong position (too close/far apart from the rear of the window).

As for the adhesive,I used it last time but I think maybe it failed because I didn't apply it right. I'll try to get more in the tab "channel" next time. Also, when you say lube the window are you referring to the run channel or lift channel? Everything seemed to move smoothly enough.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on November 17, 2013, 08:58:40 PM
lube everything that moves.

I did this to my old 87. twice it failed before I lube everything, then it worked good as new. it lasted for about 2 1/2 years when I junked the car  I am a heavy smoker, so I use the windows much more frequently then most people would.

clean the window up really well, then do a dry fit. run the window up and down a couple of times and see where the channels want to stay. the parts store ones are in the dorman area and almost twice the size of stock. I drilled some small holes in them just incase. then when you have it sitting just right, hold the window up, or run it down holding the glass in place, then dump a bunch of that  in there and roll the window track back into the window until its all the way up. leave it up for a couple of days.

wish ya the best man. good luck. its a pain in the butt
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on November 21, 2013, 11:06:20 AM
Thanks a bunch. Too much happening and I won't be able to get to it til this weekend. I'll keep you guys posted.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Cougars 2 go on January 18, 2014, 02:22:49 PM
Has anyone noticed those scissor arm supports don't naturally rest at the bottom of the glass whether all the way up, down or in between?  Mine seem to want to pull the bottom edge of the window inward.  I couldn't find an adjustment to ease the conflict between the lateral position of the glass and those two clips.

I used Permatex® PermaPoxy™ 30 Minute High Strength General Purpose Epoxy (http://www.permatex.com/products-2/product-categories/adhesives-sealants/epoxies/permatex--permapoxy--30-minute-high-strength-general-purpose-epoxy-detail) before reading this and it's curing now.  I suspect I will be doing this again.

Does anyone know the part number of those Dorman clips?  I searched Dorman's site and Advance Auto and I couldn't find them.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: ZondaC12 on January 18, 2014, 05:12:09 PM
By "inward", do you mean toward the center of the vehicle from the broad side of the vehicle? I've never checked into this sort of thing, but constant tension of any kind is going to mean more wear for sure.

Maybe to keep everything from rattling around. The more you look, the more lackluster design/build you find...
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Erik J Designs on January 18, 2014, 05:39:26 PM
I have to do the same w/ my pass side, I fixed it once but it hasn't held.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on January 18, 2014, 10:42:16 PM
What's going on brother! I haven't had a crack at it since I've got projects around the house to take care of. When I get to it I'll let you know if I have any success. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that your car is low enough!
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Cougars 2 go on January 19, 2014, 12:45:37 AM
Quote from: ZondaC12;427531
By "inward", do you mean toward the center of the vehicle from the broad side of the vehicle? I've never checked into this sort of thing, but constant tension of any kind is going to mean more wear for sure.

Maybe to keep everything from rattling around. The more you look, the more lackluster design/build you find...

Yeah inward, inboard, away from the door skin toward the pull strap.  Rattle prevention method is possible.  If others here have noticed the same thing, then less cause for concern.

Actually, considering the balance between cost and profit Ford had to achieve and considering the other cars I have owned and currently own, these cars continue to hold up.  The platform sharing with enough other vehicles while still achieving their own uniqueness (at least to me, the GP thinks they're TBirds) makes for affordable upkeep when needed.  I don't feel these cats are lackluster but again, I know I'm in the minority.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: OfficerJoseph on January 19, 2014, 01:28:46 AM
I've had a couple Chryslers from the same era, and I really must say that the design differences are night and day.

I know comparing Fox platform cars to K-cars is like comparing filet mignon to a 10 day old Big Mac, but it does count for something.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2014, 07:32:36 AM
I find it rather interesting that i posted the 100% fix for this issue and everyone is still having issues with it. The same people are posting fixes that 100% do not work and i find this very frustrating at best. I go to great lengths to solve problems like this and willingly pass it on so once again here is the fix  Plain and simple those 2 tiny glass clips are to small to control that window. And they expand and contract with temperature. Plain and simple there is not enough ares to glue weld nail replace spit on to the glass to hold that window on the regulator with those small clips. Those clips do not have enough surface area and nothing i have tries will hold them to the glass, New ones will only last a short time as well. You need to increase the clamping area by 100% of the window bottom for proper holding ability and call it a day. Until then you are wasting your time and effort. I posted the fix 2 times.

One more time make 2 of these and your window issues are OVER. FOREVER!!!

(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/003-4.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/003-4.jpg.html)


(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/002-5.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/002-5.jpg.html)
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jcassity on January 19, 2014, 08:57:14 AM
Quote from: Cougars 2 go;427553
Yeah inward, inboard, away from the door skin toward the pull strap.  Rattle prevention method is possible.  If others here have noticed the same thing, then less cause for concern.
.


yes, with no windown in, its rather obvious to watch this happen.

my 2 to 4 year cure is clear silicone

and x 2 to haystack, gotta lub up the vertical tracks and all moving things.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jcassity on January 19, 2014, 09:03:13 AM
where is the link to that thread tom?
i will add that to the Renzo files im building out on my diy link..i get what your saying but there isnt anyway to track these good fixs if the "best of the best" are not gathered up in one basket.

its real super easy to miss out on good info if your not looking at each catagory and sub catagory on here.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Erik J Designs on January 19, 2014, 09:05:09 AM
Quote from: Crash225;427549
What's going on brother! I haven't had a crack at it since I've got projects around the house to take care of. When I get to it I'll let you know if I have any success. Oh yeah I forgot to mention that your car is low enough!


Crash let me know the next time you come out to Atco I'll call BJL and we can all take the fox bodies out to the track, I just got a 90 SC for my birthday so i may be running the MN12 it depends if my engine is dropped in by then.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jcassity on January 19, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
yeah, i cant find it tom, half hour of advanced seach using>>

tom renzo,  ...  /threads started by user,  ...  /posts by user
"window" or "window regulator"
then narrowing down into the /assembly -how to,  .. / misc tech, ..  /body appearance interior

nothing yet
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2014, 09:35:14 AM
I dont know i am not familiar with finding things on these sites. But up north when these windows and other windows freeze to the welting it will pull the clips off every time i9f you hit the down button and the glass is frozen to the welting if you do not have full length channels. I have tried all the chemicals my suppliers have said will work with this issue and they all failed. Also you have to be absolutely sure the window moves up and down and not binding. That is a given!!
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jcassity on January 19, 2014, 09:39:39 AM
ok,,, then,,,,,,,,,
tell us this..................

did you "Start the thread"
or....
did you "respond to the thread"

also,,,
what tech terminology would you have used to accuratly discuss this...

words like ...
"regulator,  plastic clips,  moon gear ect ect.

do you remember a unique set of words you may have used?

do you recall who you may have been talking with if you had "replied" to a thread.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2014, 11:55:53 AM
OK most likely responded to a person asking for some advice i think??
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 19, 2014, 12:02:23 PM
You can buy bottom channel and weld tabs to them and make them any length you want. I make my own from scratch!! Cut it to size wels tabs to it then fill it with window weld with the window up and wait 24 hours FIXED FOREVER!!


http://www.dkhardware.com/product-8411-cp651139-48-universal-bottom-channel.html
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: ZondaC12 on January 19, 2014, 10:35:57 PM
Quote from: Cougars 2 go;427553
Yeah inward, inboard, away from the door skin toward the pull strap.  Rattle prevention method is possible.  If others here have noticed the same thing, then less cause for concern.

Actually, considering the balance between cost and profit Ford had to achieve and considering the other cars I have owned and currently own, these cars continue to hold up.  The platform sharing with enough other vehicles while still achieving their own uniqueness (at least to me, the GP thinks they're TBirds) makes for affordable upkeep when needed.  I don't feel these cats are lackluster but again, I know I'm in the minority.


Yes, there I go, like seemingly every writer for Jalopnik. Blaming everything on the manufacturer and conveniently glossing over the heaping pile of government regulation that the big 3 had to just "adjust to" overnight. Then again I've been told by many that you need look no further than the these-days-super-glorified original Muscle Cars for examples of "just thrown together" assembly.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on January 20, 2014, 12:32:10 AM
my windows worked fine for 25+ years. my current tbirds still do. I'm a heavy smoker and use my windows constantly and have rarely had an issue.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2014, 07:36:08 AM
Then why do so many people have this problem and the numbers are endless on all the forums i go on. Seems like others like my ideas Then tell me why stacks do those window tabs separate in the first place. PRICELESS!!! If your windows worked for 25 years then why are you offering a fix??? Either you are fibbing or just another useless post from the regulars!:bowdown: Ok you win they never separate!! The poster is LYING about his window issue.  I see them do  this all the time. So just for the record STACKS you have fixed how many ZERO but you posted several times on how to fix the issue.o just curious stacks why do they sell those clips with set screws and boast a permanent fix. Those clips do not work and you can not duplicate the procedure how they were initially  installed at the factory WHEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!  I think i will PM J with the mods from now on or better yet keep them to myself! If the regulars do not post the fixes or should i say if i post hem they fall on deaf ears ! But i am a guillotine for punishment i should have learned my lesson by now. Sorry for trying to help as usual i stand corrected.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2014, 07:59:05 AM
Took this post from another site. Fancy that!!!


Hmm, it looks like this IS a common problem with our cars. The clips separate from the glass I called all the local glass shops in my area, and they were of no particular help other than a total glass replacement. They knew nothing specific about these particular window problems or a fast fix.
Thanks, Kit Sullivan
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jcassity on January 20, 2014, 08:42:55 AM
wally, dont you think your being a little hard on the beaver?


Here is a good thread with pics of our findings for when a window appears to have a slow spot about the half way point going either up or down.
otherwise windows worked great except they finally came off the cradle.

Window getting off its track? why is this? here is what we found
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?34261-window-off-the-track-i-think-we-solved-quot-why-quot&highlight=
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on January 20, 2014, 02:13:15 PM
tom, ill bet I've owned more cougar/birds then you have fixed. my white 87 bird had this problem when I bought it. I had to re-do the window twice. first time I used just glue on stock broken window clips. second time I lubed everything, used the larger clips and the black windshield adhesive  it lasted some 60k or so until I drove it into the junkyard( it still worked btw). I was driving a minimum of 500 miles a week and constantly using my window as I am a heavy smoker. I'm sure I got more then the average lifespans worth of use out of it. the other 7 or 8 I've owned and driven all worked fine.

if I did it again, I might just fabricate your channels, but I see little point, where the glass sits on protrusions for the stock clips anyways, and the oversized clips take up nearly as much room as is available anyways.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: jandmmustangs on January 20, 2014, 02:40:03 PM
This Internet stuff is serious business to some people.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on January 20, 2014, 02:56:45 PM
Tom, thanks for the indepth channel mod pictures. You did send me a different picture before but it didn't show the tabs.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Crash225 on January 20, 2014, 03:05:08 PM
Erik, another trip to the track would be great. I've been thinking about a supercoupe ever since Nate had that black one with a modified supercharger.Congrats!
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2014, 08:07:54 PM
Stacks i do not want to embarrass you as to how many Turbo coupes i have owned over the years. True i am a CHEVY guy. But i think i stopped counting @  $$  Well lets call it a day i do not want to get in to it with you as i enjoy you posts immensely. Actually i wait to see when your name pops up and i immediately click on. With that please keep your money as just the Turbo Coupes i have owned would shock you. Not only the windows we fix every day in the body shop my personal cars are another story.  Your vast knowledge of the automotive business totally fascinates me. So how many Fords have you actually owned and exactly how many window issues have you repaired. Then lets compare notes. I am older so i will factor that in. Now how many T Birds i have owned once again would blow your mind. Have a good night Stacks.

Stacks you have owned more cougars than i have fixed, That is priceless and foolish as i am authorized ford repair facility and have been that for many years. My dad was authorized by Ford ever since i can remember and i have been doing ford overflow warranty issues for years. Do you really believe what you post. It boggles the imagination at best.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2014, 08:15:26 PM
Quote from: jandmmustangs;427648
This Internet stuff is serious business to some people.


NOPE cars are serious to me. As my reputation is always on the line.
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 20, 2014, 08:16:10 PM
Quote from: Crash225;427650
Tom, thanks for the indepth channel mod pictures. You did send me a different picture before but it didn't show the tabs.

My pleasure any time my friend!
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: Haystack on January 20, 2014, 09:34:57 PM
I'm glad to have the car gods gift bestowed upon us tom. just for fun I ran out to my car. 246k on it and the windows still work!!!
Title: Help...Window is detaching from frame
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 21, 2014, 05:17:10 AM
You bet i am glad to help!!

Jay here you go. By the way STACKS  So in 25 years you had no window issues. ?????? Are there two stacks posting on this site. Just a thought!!

http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?33667-Once-again-door-windows-tracks-clips