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Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: ACCEPT on November 14, 2011, 08:22:27 AM

Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 14, 2011, 08:22:27 AM
Friends, is an honor to engage in dialogue with you.

I write this day with great joy, because I could get one ecu for my cougar ls 1987.

Now trying to give a second life to this beautiful car.

to install these parts I thought the car would start.

did not happen.

and to test KOEO codes are as follows ...



Code 31: Solenoid E.G.R. -

Code 51: Water Temperature Sensor (high signal) .-

Code 68: Air Temperature Sensor (low signal) .-

Code 81: Failure in the fan eletric .- (¿Radiator fan?)

Code 82: solenoid air bypass the catalytic converter is defective in the circuit .-

Code 83: Fan high (faults in the circuit) .-

Code 89: converter clutch solenoid .-


Every time I think I'm closer to revive the cougar ...
I also believe that the fault may be the DPFE.

because I believe that:


codes 51 and 68 => are related to EGR

codes 81 and 83 => electric fan was remplasado by one on the belt pulley

codes 31 and 82 and 89 => DPFE


you know the location of the component DPFE
if you can guide me will appreciate it.

regards

ACCEPT
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 15, 2011, 02:54:50 AM
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,588.0.html

Efi no start troubleshooting.

I know english is not your first language. If you can follow all of the steps there, you should know what you need to do to get it to start.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 16, 2011, 07:21:13 AM
I will.

thank
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 16, 2011, 12:20:57 PM
i can't found DPFE in my 3.8 cougar... it's DPFE same MAP?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 16, 2011, 02:49:25 PM
http://rockledge.home.comcast.net/~rockledge/RangerPictureGallery/DPFE_Images.html

Says it should be on the intake somewhere. I think it is the same as a map sensor, but I do not know. What year and engine is your car?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 16, 2011, 02:50:18 PM
If that sensor is the same as your map sensor, it will not let it start.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Soul on November 16, 2011, 05:08:30 PM
Is your Fan / Fuel Pump relay control module bad? Passanger side strut tower, it looks like an ecu with a Connector with bolt on back of it. I think all those run through it to the ECU.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2011, 12:57:34 AM
What engine is in the car?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Shadow on November 17, 2011, 01:12:02 AM
Quote from: ACCEPT;373122
i can't found DPFE in my [SIZE="4"]3.8[/SIZE][/I][/B] cougar... it's DPFE same MAP?



:poke:
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 17, 2011, 09:06:41 AM
232' V6.

I' have 2 solenoid EGR

this is the DPFE
(http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/evr.jpg)


And this is the sensor solenoid.

(http://fuelcano.com/catalogo/images/VP4.jpg)

now i' try to change the second...

Thank you for the answer
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2011, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: ACCEPT;373228
232' V6.

Is this the original engine in this car?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 17, 2011, 02:23:35 PM
Yes it is.

is a fabulous engine ... I remember that this engine shares a platform with a very rare model Jaguar MK-II 1960.

both cars the same number of cylinders and cubic inches

(http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/images/car_info/large/jaguar_mkII_large.jpg)

some degree of family may be...

ciao
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 17, 2011, 02:55:21 PM
What year is your car?


En que ano es tu choce ?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 17, 2011, 03:34:37 PM
my car is a 1987 model sir.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2011, 05:37:31 PM
Quote from: ACCEPT;372910
Friends, is an honor to engage in dialogue with you.

I write this day with great joy, because I could get one ecu for my cougar ls 1987.

Now trying to give a second life to this beautiful car.

to install these parts I thought the car would start.

did not happen.

and to test KOEO codes are as follows ...



Code 31: Solenoid E.G.R. -

Code 31: EGR Valve position sensor signal too low.

Quote
Code 51: Water Temperature Sensor (high signal) .-

Code 51: Engine coolent temperature shows -40°. This means the sensor is at maximum resistance or an open circuit. You would get this code if the connector on the sensor was unplugged or a wire broken.

Quote
Code 68: Air Temperature Sensor (low signal) .-

Code 68: ITS (Idle Tracking Switch) failed in closed position.

Quote
Code 81: Failure in the fan eletric .- (¿Radiator fan?)

Code 81: TAD(Thermactor Air Diverter) solenoid problem.

Quote
Code 82: solenoid air bypass the catalytic converter is defective in the circuit .-

Code 82: TAB(Thermactor Air Bypass) solenoid problem.

Quote
Code 83: Fan high (faults in the circuit) .-

Code 83: EGR(Exhaust Gas Recycle) control solenoid problem.

Quote
Code 89: converter clutch solenoid .-

Code 89: Exhaust Heat Control solenoid problem.

Your car does not have a DPFE
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 17, 2011, 06:01:00 PM
Has all of the emission control stuff been removed?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 17, 2011, 10:35:34 PM
The 232cu In engine that is factory in the cougar/T-Bird is totally different than what was in the Jaguars, the Ford 232 wasn't designed till the early 80s...

If it has a Jag engine swapped into it(doubtful), then we aren't going to be able to help you...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Thunderbyrd88 on November 17, 2011, 11:24:40 PM
dude quit wasting time on the 3.8. its a boat anchor. find a 302 v8 out of a mustang gt or a Lincoln mark 7 and swap the motor. if you still insist on keeping the peice of  3.8 v6 then google  Morana v6 racing, the guy has built a legitimate 10 second naturally aspirated v6 mustang. he is located in Canada and custom builds performance parts for the 3.8 ford v6. if you still cant figure it out send me a message and ill try to help you get the cougar running. im a service manager at Firestone and i have access to mitchell on demand as well as the fact that ive built several of the fox chassis cougars. let me know.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 17, 2011, 11:34:04 PM
I think the biggest problem here is a language barrier. I was think that it might be a 99-02 cougar for a while, with the sensor pictures I found. But then the codes wouldn't make any sense.

Maybe google translate would help here.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Shadow on November 17, 2011, 11:34:24 PM
hmm.. someone's severely opinionated and 1-sided..
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 18, 2011, 10:54:53 AM
Quote from: ACCEPT;373228
232' V6.

I' have 2 solenoid EGR

this is the DPFE
(http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/evr.jpg)


And this is the sensor solenoid.

(http://fuelcano.com/catalogo/images/VP4.jpg)

now i' try to change the second...

Thank you for the answer

If your car has this EGR vacuum regulator and the pressure feed back type of EGR sensor, it is probably an 88 Cougar and not an 87.
Can you post the VIN number so we can confirm the model year?
Can you also post a picture of the engine bay?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 18, 2011, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: Shadow;373296
hmm.. someone's severely opinionated and 1-sided..

No doubt, plus the poster is in Chile and just wants the car to run, not be a hotrod... I doubt even 5.0 are abundant down there...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Chrome on November 18, 2011, 07:54:43 PM
Will a 5.0 fix paint scratches too???...........but seriously, could Accept be going by build date instead of model year? I don't know if all countries have a difference between them like we do. I always thought the practice was strange and confusing.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Shadow on November 18, 2011, 10:33:11 PM
there may be a lot of mechanical differences with his car, beings it's not a US car
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 19, 2011, 12:11:13 AM
My guess is it's a US spec/built vehicle, most stuff built in South America was still running carbs in the late '80s...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Chrome on November 19, 2011, 12:15:00 PM
Judging by the parts he is asking about, this has to be a fuel injected car. There may be a lot of differences between his car and our US ones. We should still try to help him the best we can. We just need lots of info and pics. It sickens me that someone would suggest a 5.0 upgrade. He wants to fix what he has. We must remember the cost may be very high due to shipping.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on November 19, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
...not to mention fuel prices, possible taxes on larger engines, etc. But yeah, we need more info. Different markets had different fuel systems, for example, Canadian 3.8 cars had carburetors standard through 1986 with cfi being optional. Accept, if you could post a pic of your engine as well as where those parts mount if would be a great help
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 19, 2011, 05:56:54 PM
Dear sirs, I appreciate your prompt answer.
I'd like you help me to solve some problems about my car, Cougar ls 3.8 1987 :

I change this solenoid and its doesnt work.


(http://fuelcano.com/catalogo/images/VP4.jpg)

I think the next step is to change the another solenoid.

(http://fordfuelinjection.com/images/evr.jpg)


additional information:

My car was made in U.S. With a fuel injection system.

i would like to repair this engine, because of the relation weight versus power is good.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: glenn-ho on November 19, 2011, 06:57:21 PM
Neither of those two pictures is the DPFE (DELTA PRESSURE FEEDBACK EGR). The first picture you have is the Electronic Vacuum Regulator Solenoid. The second picture is of a Manifold Pressure/Vacuum Sensor.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on November 19, 2011, 10:11:21 PM
Quote from: glenn-ho;373443
Neither of those two pictures is the DPFE (DELTA PRESSURE FEEDBACK EGR). The first picture you have is the Electronic Vacuum Regulator Solenoid. The second picture is of a Manifold Pressure/Vacuum Sensor.

And neither would prevent the car from running, nor would the DPFE...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 19, 2011, 10:39:09 PM
What codes does the car pull?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 20, 2011, 12:08:53 AM
Quote from: Haystack;373453
What codes does the car pull?

In post #1 ACCEPT posted his codes.
In post #15 I posted what they mean for an 87 CFI 3.8L engine.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 20, 2011, 01:19:21 PM
Cougar LS 1987 3.8 VIN NUMBER : 1MEBM604XJH636073

The car pull this codes:

Code 31: Solenoid E.G.R. -

Code 51: Water Temperature Sensor (high signal) .-

Code 68: Air Temperature Sensor (low signal) .-

Code 81: Failure in the fan eletric .- (¿Radiator fan?)

Code 82: solenoid air bypass the catalytic converter is defective in the circuit .-

Code 83: Fan high (faults in the circuit) .-

Code 89: converter clutch solenoid .-

a test supply (EVP, TPS or MAP) and if they have 5 volt power
Title: Dpfe
Post by: softtouch on November 20, 2011, 03:20:07 PM
Quote from: ACCEPT;373481
Cougar LS 1987 3.8 VIN NUMBER : 1MEBM604X[SIZE="5"]J[/SIZE][/B]H636073

J= 1988 model year
Big engine difference between 1987 and 1988
87 is CFI
88 is SEFI
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 20, 2011, 08:11:42 PM
sorry... I thought that the fabrication date "11/87" and the model are the same.

I appreciate you clarify then
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Shadow on November 20, 2011, 08:17:21 PM
something that rolls off the production line that late in the year is 1 model year newer.. for example, 1 year later in 11/88, the MN-12 birds/cougars were in production, which is the 89 model year
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 20, 2011, 08:52:06 PM
The EGR sistem is new for my... may be this codes are common mistakes.

Code 81: TAD(Thermactor Air Diverter) solenoid problem.

Código 82: TAB (Termactor el escape de aire) problema de solenoide.

Código 83: EGR (Exhaust Gas de reciclaje) problema de solenoide de control.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 20, 2011, 10:40:03 PM
What steps have you taken from the efi no start link I gave you in post #2? This will tell you everything you need to do to make it run.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on November 20, 2011, 10:44:24 PM
Post#2 gives you a way to fix all of your problems. Joel5.0 also is from porterico so if you have a question, he might be able to help. You better.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on November 21, 2011, 06:35:25 AM
thank for your help

then

the first step is check the 51 and 68 codes

the second step is check the 82, 83 and 89 codes.


Cat news later
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on December 13, 2011, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: softtouch;373484
J= 1988 model year
Big engine difference between 1987 and 1988
87 is CFI
88 is SEFI

I made a stupid, buy a 1987 ecu for my cougar 1988.

That is the problem codes

thank my brothers.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on December 13, 2011, 11:29:24 PM
Your car is running now? Wrong ecm?
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on December 14, 2011, 10:16:39 AM
not yet...

maybe in 2 week more comes to my home the ecu i bought for ebay, not so expensive only $ 20 US.

any of you need a 87 ecu?

thanks
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 14, 2011, 11:10:51 AM
Quote from: softtouch;373484
J= 1988 model year
Big engine difference between 1987 and 1988
87 is CFI
88 is SEFI


Actually the '88 is EFI it's batch fire, not a sequential system...

Although it won't be correct by any means, I'd think it would at least start on the '87 ECM... I know someone whose ECM burned up(literally) in a '93 F-150 Lightning, to be able move the truck a 6cyl ECM was tried and it did run...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on December 14, 2011, 11:52:57 PM
Anyone have any pin outs for the 87 and 88 ecu's? As long as the tps and igniton wires are right it should start on staring fluid. I could see it not firing the injectors long enough to keep it running.
Title: Dpfe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 15, 2011, 12:45:28 PM
ECM pins 58 & 59 fire the injectors in either a batch fire EFI or CFI injector setup... Most if not all connections for TPS, PIP input, etc are same... Would no doubt be a problem with a ECM such as the ones with Vane Air Meter input or MAF, but a Speed Densety system should work...
Title: Dpfe
Post by: ACCEPT on January 15, 2012, 10:28:21 PM
[video=youtube;SQJgWb4jSaI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQJgWb4jSaI&feature=youtu.be[/video]


first target complete... working now with the fluid

Thank you all very much.

THE END
Title: Dpfe
Post by: Haystack on January 16, 2012, 12:08:14 AM
Awesome. Let us know if you need anything else, and drive your car.
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