Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: Jmoore87 on October 18, 2011, 02:37:40 PM

Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 18, 2011, 02:37:40 PM
Which would be a better gear ratios for my 88 cougar v6. 3.73 or 4.10? Im looking for better acceleration and and bit more too speed
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Kitz Kat on October 18, 2011, 03:18:13 PM
You will lose more top end speed the higher the gear you use. You really won't gain a lot with a stock v6 to make a big impact. That 88 six is an oddball with that balance shaft.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 18, 2011, 04:16:31 PM
As of now im planning a stroker rebuild for my 6 to add a lil more power. But do you have any suggestion on a higher top speed
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Kitz Kat on October 18, 2011, 05:19:20 PM
Put a 199 mph spedo in it.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Haystack on October 19, 2011, 12:44:40 PM
Swap in a sc motor, or get a v-8 in there. No offense to the v-6, but you go broke trying to make it fast, without using a completely different engine and parts.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: cougarman on October 19, 2011, 12:47:49 PM
I would go with 3.73s, you might not gain any top speed but you will get there a whole lot quicker. :D
Title: gear ratio
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 19, 2011, 06:57:31 PM
I a
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Kitz Kat on October 20, 2011, 04:23:27 PM
I figured he is stuck on 85 mph. If he does the 199mph he might be happy!, he really didn't come back with any more info!
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Dan B. on October 20, 2011, 05:36:08 PM
It is possible to actually gain top speed with steeper gears.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on October 21, 2011, 07:46:26 PM
Quote from: Dan B.;370668
It is possible to actually gain top speed with steeper gears.

Agreed though usually not a lot, will always be lower HP engine... If the engine isn't deep enough into it's HP/torque curve to overcome wind resistance, increasing the revs may eek out a bit more speed...
Title: gear ratio
Post by: canadiancarguy on October 23, 2011, 01:43:53 PM
I think it would a pretty big difference putting 3.73s over the factory 2.73 or whatever the stock 7.5 rear comes with. After I did my 347 stroker with C3 into my 87 tbird I got pretty tired of hitting top speed and having everyone (including a smart car once!) blow by me on the highway. Deeper gears are fun, but it gets tiring in a hurry doing 4500 rpm going 70 miles per hour.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Haystack on October 23, 2011, 04:30:10 PM
Or you could run an overdrive transmission, like the 88 v-6 is stock. Your top speed is not going to change on an 88 v-6. Not higher anyways.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 24, 2011, 01:57:43 AM
I think its 3.08 ill be certain in the morning when i can look at the certification plate on my car
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 24, 2011, 02:01:37 AM
Ive thought of using the motor from a cougar/tb supercharged but finding one is no easy task
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 24, 2011, 09:22:13 PM
Engine upgrade is your best bet. You may not like the idea, but 5.0s are easy to find and easy to fix. Might be affordable if you find the right donor car for the PCM and harness.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 24, 2011, 10:17:58 PM
lets say your stock gears are 3.08's.. the purpose of switching to 3.73's or 4.10's is acceleration gain, not top speed gain.. can you gain more top speed? it's possible, but it depends on the cirspoogestances.. cirspoogestances a stock 3.8 doesn't have.. the 4.3 stroker kits are built for SC's, as are most other aftermarket parts.. so keep that in mind before spending any money on your motor
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 24, 2011, 10:21:07 PM
Quote from: Jmoore87;370897
Ive thought of using the motor from a cougar/tb supercharged but finding one is no easy task

best place to find 1 is SCCOA.. super coupe club of america.. they have a classifieds section on their forum.. the BEST way to do it is with a megasquirt DIY ecu, if you know what you're doing. the SC harness is super complex and has a lot of other  tied into it
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 25, 2011, 12:28:31 AM
Stroking it will indeed cause U to gain top speed, but that is a total rebuild. A lot of money for not a hole lot of gain. If you have a supercharger laying around go for it. Just swapping for a supercharged engine or 5.0 will give U what U want. Could adding just a supercharger be an option?
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 25, 2011, 01:08:20 AM
not recommended.. NA 3.8's have py pistons.. they'll start getting weak at 8psi, busted at 10.. an SC bottom end would basically be a must.. SC blocks are stronger too
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 25, 2011, 01:39:46 AM
Good 2 know. Let's avoid that! Had 2 ask.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 25, 2011, 02:33:18 AM
did a bunch of research on the subject when i had my SC and wanted to build a 2nd motor :p lol
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 27, 2011, 03:27:51 PM
Im not looking to go crazy on top speed. Maybe up to 120 mph. I just dont want to stay at 85 untill i can dind a different engine. If im not mistaken i have 3.08 gear ratio
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 27, 2011, 04:06:31 PM
Understood. However, gear ratio is gear ratio. Look at it like a transmission. You can go faster in 2nd or 3rd gear than you would in first right? The rear gear changes you are asking about will most likely hurt top speed instead of help. Deeper gears are for acceleration, not top speed.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 27, 2011, 04:51:55 PM
i don't think a  stock NA 3.8 is capable of hitting 120 lol
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Haystack on October 27, 2011, 08:32:20 PM
Have you just been hitting the speedo limit? Have you done the j-2 mod?

Where are you driving 120mph legally?
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 27, 2011, 09:15:10 PM
Yes ive taken my car to its limits several times mainly on the highway. And it takes no time to get her to about 90mph. Whats the j-2 mod? And i dont have anywhere to speed legally. One reason i want more on the top end is because i was hauling ass down the highway one night with a vw beatle and the the  thing pulled away from me at the top end and all i could do is watch it walk away lol. Hurt my pride lol. Theres a 98 gt engine i can get my hands on but it doesnt have the wire harness.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 27, 2011, 10:09:12 PM
I knew these speeds were not happening legally. A big majority of us on this site break the law by driving our cars with missing, altered, or disabled emission control devices. No judgement here. The j-2 mod is so digital speedos can read more than 85. Can anyone answer me why this car is so slow on the top end? I had a 93 Cougar with a 3.8 that would do 115. Rear gear on that car was factory, and I believe it was 3.08. It would hurt my pride to be competing with a Beetle at all! lol
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 27, 2011, 10:18:00 PM
She is completly stock at the moment except for for the intake. And I was fine against that  bug untill i got to 90. Yea it still hurts lol. This is why i want more on the top
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Haystack on October 27, 2011, 10:20:33 PM
Well, the 93 cougar would have basically the same engine, basically the same rear gear, and weigh a lot more weight, so it should be slower.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Shadow on October 27, 2011, 10:40:35 PM
tisk tisk.. speeding.. you should be ashamed LOL and emissions controls? what the  are they?!
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on October 28, 2011, 12:43:51 AM
Only advice I have for you is to get the most out of what you have until you get something better under the hood. If you haven't done so already, perform a full tune up. Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, and air filter. Block off EGR. Gut the cats. Replace ler with something that will flow. I'm ready to catch hell for the next one. Up the ignition timing. Just advance it a little bit and test it. If it is hard to start than you have gone too far. If it has a "popcorn popper" sound when going up a hill, you have gone too far. If you are not comfortable doing it completely blind, use a vac gage and go for most vac, then do the test drive. I don't believe in timing guns.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on October 28, 2011, 12:47:02 AM
Yea i know sperding is illegal but i cant help it dometimes lol. The emissions are stock as well.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Jmoore87 on November 03, 2011, 03:47:24 AM
I've decided to go with the 5.0 ho swap. I've come to realize is not much i can do with my v6. So im gonna replace it with a v8.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: blackcougar71 on November 12, 2011, 02:19:36 AM
like all the other guys said it takes lots of fund to make a v6 powerful. but after you do make a v6 powerful its totally worth it. if you want to do a few things to your v6 then i would start off with the small things like- underdrive pulleys, exhaust system, timing, roller rockers upgrade, windstar upper and lower intake upgrade then rebuilt the engine and rear end to your liking.
p.s plus with my stock gears which were 2:73 gears i topped out of like 125-130mph with my v6. its just now with my modified v6/  with built transmission and traction lock 3:73  rear end i can just top the car out quicker.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: sarjxxx on January 18, 2012, 01:05:20 AM
Quote from: Jmoore87;371833
I've decided to go with the 5.0 ho swap. I've come to realize is not much i can do with my v6. So im gonna replace it with a v8.

you're not the first and won't be the last person to realize that. I'm just to  stubborn to do it;)
Title: gear ratio
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 18, 2012, 06:38:24 AM
Wo
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Beau on January 18, 2012, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Jmoore87;371293
Yes ive taken my car to its limits several times  mainly on the highway

Quote from: Chrome;371300
I knew these speeds were not happening legally. A big majority of us on this site break the law by driving our cars with missing, altered, or disabled emission control devices. No judgement here.

Judgement here. Missing, altered, or disabled emissions devices won't kill yourself or someone else if you lose control, etc.
Stock brakes on our cars are barely adequate for the speed limits..let alone anything at near twice that. Stock suspensions, worn ball joints, and tie rods....just a recipe for bad bad luck.

I lost a very good friend who was in the prime of her life because she was in a shiznitty car that was beyond it's limits just going one mph over the speed limit.
At least buckle up and do stupid shiznit on a country road where there's no traffic.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on January 18, 2012, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;377993
Judgement here. Missing, altered, or disabled emissions devices won't kill yourself or someone else if you lose control, etc.
Stock brakes on our cars are barely adequate for the speed limits..let alone anything at near twice that. Stock suspensions, worn ball joints, and tie rods....just a recipe for bad bad luck.

I lost a very good friend who was in the prime of her life because she was in a shiznitty car that was beyond it's limits just going one mph over the speed limit.
At least buckle up and do stupid shiznit on a country road where there's no traffic.


I'm not going to argue with this. I myself keep stupid driving where there is little to no traffic, and brake upgrades are first on my list for my car. I repair bad steering components immediatly. I simply stated I will not judge him for his illegal behavior. He did not mention if the highway was busy or not. If it is a highly used highway, shame on him. It was my assumption that it was not busy.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 18, 2012, 06:10:32 PM
Re
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on January 18, 2012, 08:36:34 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;378028
Removing the egr has not shown any horsepower gains on mostly bolt-on or stock engine combos. The egr does not function at wide open throttle anyway. Removing it by simply disconnecting it and blocking it off does in fact remove part throttle performance. The EEC uses the EGR, along with various other sensors, to adjust timing, fuel pulse and the like. If you want to delete it the correct way either buy a egr simulator on electronic ones or have it tuned. And dont forget for the automatic cars a new modulator is mandatory. Non EGR cars use a different Modulator and not changing it will smoke you tranny in. Also your cylinder temps will rise by leaps and bounds. And this destroys performance.

Cats new 200 cell cats actually make performance a bit better. Hot exhaust gas moves much more easily than cool exhaust. Hence a cat can increase HP very slightly in some applications. We tested a 500 Hp chevy with and without a cat and the difference was so close we could not tell the difference on the DYNE.

Timing your timing has to be tailored by a given number of total degrees with the available amount of timing designed in a distributor or ECM. To much will kill the top end. Just sying that is my $.02 For what ever it is worth. If yo use a vacuum gauge to set timing you will most likely advance way to much. Reasom being is any engine at idle will increase vacuum with an early engine timing parameter. Once again just me.


I have never seen a 302/5.0 that liked more than 36 degrees total. Most make the most power with 34 or slightly less.

I made the post about the EGR delete and cat removal prior to the octane thread. I suppose one could go to that thread to see the whole argument. You may be right about EGR delete not helping as far as top speed is concerned as long as it is functioning properly. EGR delete may increase acceleration because there will no longer be diluted air fuel mixture in the cylinders. Cat gutting or removal will increase power. Your views on this may be correct with the new cars or aftermarket performance cats, but this is an 88. My 96 Cougar had Flowmasters, gutted cats, and 02 simulators in the rear. Exhaust was the only modification performed, and performance differences were like night and day. As for the timing, your parameters may be off a little since this does not have a 5.0 at this time. Timing with Vacuum gauge will be closer than U may think. Disconnect everything like U would for timing with a light. If you find detonation, it is indeed too advanced and should be retarded ASAP. Don't wish to get in another argument about this. This is just the way I see it. I know it is perposterous to U, but it works for me. By the way, I have never heard of a EGR simulator. Finding a different modulator for the trans may be a little tricky, since I have never seen an AOD equipped car not equipped with EGR from the factory.
Title: gear ratio
Post by: TOM Renzo on January 18, 2012, 09:16:01 PM
xx
Title: gear ratio
Post by: Chrome on January 18, 2012, 09:37:16 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;378050
When an engine that is computer controlled sees an egr valve open it immediately richens up the mixture, As posted above in my answer i explained that. It also drops the vacuum and once again the ecm compensates for that. The ECM is looking for egr at certain times and when it does not see it it does not change the mixture and timing parameters. So it does not respond as it was programed to do. The extra vacuum from the deleated EGR sends wrong amounts of vacuum to the transmission equipped with a vacuum modulator.This in turn speeds up the shift points and also degrades performance. And reduces line pressure.  Granted newer units dont have modulators any more. But never the less the MAP gets the wrong vacuum signal and further complicates the issue. Deleting an EGR is not a good thing to do and reduces performance.  As for deleting the rear o2 sensors by tuning them out is useless in a state that does emissions. The new  test benches test for that  and bingo YOU FAIL. These guys got wise to that several years ago. So if and when your state does emissions on obd2 vehicles they just may fail you car and they will. Or they man not have the latest up dated machines as we have in CT. Or a visual check may be mandatory. Either way the rear o2 sensors do not effect tuning. They are only cat efficiency testers Either way we will never agree on this so lets drop it. Once again the DYNE does not lie and if you remove the EGR you loose power and the dyne shows that infatically. Lets call it a day.
I do agree that we should just drop it. Just to let U know, the O2 simulators was just to keep the check engine light off. No emission testing in this part of my state.