Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: canadiancarguy on September 28, 2011, 11:21:58 AM

Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: canadiancarguy on September 28, 2011, 11:21:58 AM
Just wondering if supercharger cams are the same as turbo cams? Lookin for turbo cam for my cougar, something in a hydraulic roller with under 550 lift. Nothin extreme. I know that some four banger import cars have different cams for supercharging or turbocharging, and I am not sure what the difference is if any at all?
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 28, 2011, 11:50:37 AM
contact camshaft innovations, tell them what you're looking to do and they will either suggest an 'ok' off the shelf cam, or build you a custom ground cam, specifically for your motor and goals. a cam on a turbo motor is the last thing you want to just 'pick and choose' or take someone's word on, the wrong cam will make your life hell.. but jay at cam innovations is a great guy that knows his stuff, i trust his work with my life.. he built me an excellent cam for my capri

http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 28, 2011, 12:54:11 PM
Rule of thumb is Wide LS and high lift with mild duration
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: hypostang on September 28, 2011, 02:57:03 PM
Quote from: Shadow;368660
contact camshaft innovations, tell them what you're looking to do and they will either suggest an 'ok' off the shelf cam, or build you a custom ground cam, specifically for your motor and goals. a cam on a turbo motor is the last thing you want to just 'pick and choose' or take someone's word on, the wrong cam will make your life hell.. but jay at cam innovations is a great guy that knows his stuff, i trust his work with my life.. he built me an excellent cam for my capri

http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/


Camshaft Innovations is not currently doing business, hasn't been for about a year now .
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 28, 2011, 03:18:06 PM
really? what the eff.. it's been about a year and a half to 2 years since i bought my cam
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 28, 2011, 06:24:37 PM
http://schneidercams.com/

I use these guys for custom GRINDS. Had very good luck with their cams.
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: The Shredder on September 28, 2011, 06:26:28 PM
Off the shelf cams for turbo would be the FRPP F303 or Steeda #19.  But I'm running the stock HO cam with Cobra rockers (1.72 ratio).
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 28, 2011, 08:05:33 PM
The F303 is OK but the duration is a little high. I have found that some of these cams dial in all over the place. I dont know why but they do.
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 28, 2011, 08:19:57 PM
i don't like any of the letter cams in any application.. the B-303 is the only 1 i'd every consider.. and that would only be in a hardly touched motor.. and i wouldn't really recommend the F cam for a boost build, they're kind of sucky
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 28, 2011, 08:21:18 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;368673
http://schneidercams.com/

I use these guys for custom GRINDS. Had very good luck with their cams.


they grind some pretty good stuff.. never used them myself, but i've heard some good things from people who have and seen a few of their cams in action
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 28, 2011, 11:56:42 PM
A lot of guys run the small Trick Flow cam, with 1.7 rockers lift is in the .540 range...
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 29, 2011, 03:19:16 PM
Yes HIGH LIFT IS THE WAY TO GO!! ;)
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 29, 2011, 03:58:59 PM
high lift is indeed the best way to go for boost.. but too high and you may bring on some VTP clearance issues.. .540 is a good solid number.. pistons with valve reliefs are a must
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: canadiancarguy on September 29, 2011, 06:31:09 PM
Yeah it is looking more and more like I gotta rip this hunka junka outta there do it right the first time!! I didn't even know there was so many different firing orders for the 302!!!
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 29, 2011, 09:22:26 PM
so many? there are 2 lol
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: canadiancarguy on September 30, 2011, 07:38:32 AM
My friend in the machine shop says there are 4 different firing orders since the 289. He seems to know his stuff, I am always bugging him about mismatching ford stuff, and he is always telling me I shoulda went with a chevy! He is one of those guys who was making strokers before there were kits! Yeah bad rod angles and all! I am a beginner mechanic so I tend to ask a lot of silly questions...
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: hypostang on September 30, 2011, 02:15:11 PM
Quote from: canadiancarguy;368833
My friend in the machine shop says there are 4 different firing orders since the 289. He seems to know his stuff, I am always bugging him about mismatching ford stuff, and he is always telling me I shoulda went with a chevy! He is one of those guys who was making strokers before there were kits! Yeah bad rod angles and all! I am a beginner mechanic so I tend to ask a lot of silly questions...
Your friend is wrong  there are 2 and only 2 firing orders for the SBF  15426378 and 13726548
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: hypostang on September 30, 2011, 02:15:25 PM
Quote from: canadiancarguy;368833
My friend in the machine shop says there are 4 different firing orders since the 289. He seems to know his stuff, I am always bugging him about mismatching ford stuff, and he is always telling me I shoulda went with a chevy! He is one of those guys who was making strokers before there were kits! Yeah bad rod angles and all! I am a beginner mechanic so I tend to ask a lot of silly questions...

 Your friend is wrong  there are 2 and only 2 firing orders for the SBF  15426378 and 13726548
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on September 30, 2011, 02:31:03 PM
Quote from: hypostang;368877
Your friend is wrong  there are 2 and only 2 firing orders for the SBF  15426378 and 13726548

That is correct, two patterns... The 13726548 pattern was first introduced in the new for '69 351, was later used for the 5.0 HO...
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 30, 2011, 02:53:03 PM
4?! holy cow.. lol definitely only 2.. standard 289/302 and 302 HO/351
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: canadiancarguy on September 30, 2011, 06:45:13 PM
Yeah ok that is good to know, I was starting to wonder why would Ford overcomplicate things like that. Bad enough I am not that smart to begin with, now I got people telling me wrong answers... I already have a yard full of broken stuff from listening to wrong info! I am wondering if my buddy is just messin around with me.... I get pretty worked up pretty easily, like yesterday I had to get the ecu code to on 3 performance so they could burn the initial startup chip for me. I was sure I needed to send the code from the new computer that will be used with mass air conversion, but my buddy kept insisting it was the one off the car they needed. So I sent both just to be sure with an explanation why I sent 2 ecu codes.
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on September 30, 2011, 10:02:45 PM
NowRING
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 30, 2011, 10:18:08 PM
chevy was just trying to be cool like ford :giggle:
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Haystack on September 30, 2011, 11:36:42 PM
Actually, ford copied chevy. Don't tell anyone though. Same with the buick 3.8 and the ford 3.8.

And if you want cheap power go chevy 350. There stock heads are as good as some aftermarket fords.
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on September 30, 2011, 11:54:05 PM
SHH!! don't use such terrible language!! geez.. lol i'm more satisfied with the power small block fords make than the small block chevys i've built/owned.. dollar for dollar, hp for hp, ford is my choice, hands down.. i have a lousy 1500-2k into my 306 that's in my buddy's S10 and it throws down more power than most sbc's with that kind of money in them, and i kind of slacked on the top end by using ported GT40p heads.. most of my money is in the bottom end (eagle crank, summit rods, KB pistons).. people just have it in their heads that ford motors are super pricey to build, which isn't really true
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: canadiancarguy on October 01, 2011, 08:02:10 AM
You gotta know what put in em, that is the secret, you can have alot of money tied up into an engine but if the parts don't match or work well with each other you not making the power you should be making. The last 347 stroker I had was all wrong and sucked compared to my buddy's 306. Yeah Ford small blocks can be pricey if you don't have the knowledge to be thrifty and know what to cheap out and save on versus buying new expensive parts. Most of the Ford guys up here just happen to have a junkyard that they pick and choose what goes into the junkyard. Mostly Ford explorers, fox bodies, and aerostars. If the average guy like me was puttin a motor together, I'd tend to spend more because I don't know what parts to look for used and what parts to source new (I am learning I think) a Ford small block would be more pricey, but the price of aftermarket ford stuff has really come down in past few years....
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on October 01, 2011, 09:17:00 AM
Quote from: Shadow;368925
people just have it in their heads that ford motors are super pricey to build, which isn't really true

That no doubt usta be the case but with the leap in popularity of the 5.0 due to the Mustang, there isn't much difference these days... I've even heard Chevy guys whinin' about all the good heads avail for the Ford SB...
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on October 01, 2011, 09:30:56 AM
there are more and more parts popping up for the sbf's and a lot of companies catering to ford only.. I LOVE IT!
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 01, 2011, 11:08:38 PM
[url]h
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on October 02, 2011, 02:13:54 AM
small block fords breathe better than small block chevys with a pair of clevland heads strapped on top ;) .. clevors are still a bit of a new concept to me, but i think i'm going to build a 413 clevor with aluminum clevland heads with a nice bit intake.. i have yet to find a boosted clevor though, which is definitely what i'll build.. the runners on some of the aluminum clevland heads are big enough to fit a golf ball :O
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 02, 2011, 07:42:41 AM
To s
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Glocklimited9 on October 02, 2011, 09:41:56 AM
"the runners on some of the aluminum clevland heads are big enough to fit a golf ball"

That may be so, but the size of the port is not the only thing that makes power, the degree angle of the cylinder head and how much of a straight shot the air gets to the valve. 

I Know even mentioning the LSX motors will get me flamed but with the 12* heads  that they come with stock flow a tremendous amount.
Look at the Facts, ported 5.0 heads are flowing 220cfm, STOCK LS3 heads Flow 330 Cfm, Ported Ls7, And the new small bore LS7 heads flow over 400 CFM.

Dollar for dollar chevy motors make more power.  You can build an All Motor LSX motor, buy a set New LS3 heads from gm for under 700 bucks, buy a used L92 Short block from an Escalade or Truck, Cam it and make 500rwhp with bolt ons.  You would have to have a Healthy set of heads, AND power adder on a ford motor to make that much power. And before somebody throws the new Coyote motor in this mix, Look at the costs, Used L92 shortblocks can be had for under 1500, Heads for under 700, stock LS3 intake that also flows outstanding for under 400 bucks, and Bam 500whp...  I dont know how much it costs to build a "cleavor" But id like to see the Dollar Vs HP figures of the two motors
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: thunderjet302 on October 02, 2011, 12:47:31 PM
The LSX is a modern design. The SBF and original SBC are more closely related. Of course a modern V8 is going to make much more power than a 50 + year old design. Take a original 350 Chevy and a 351W Ford. It's costs about the same to get 500 HP out of either of them. Neither of them can touch a LSX for N/A power though.
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on October 02, 2011, 02:17:58 PM
clevland heads my not flow better than LS heads, but they're still a huge improvement over the stock windsor junk we're left to choose from. building a clevor 302 with stock heads isn't all that expensive though, mostly just in the intake department because you either have to run a BOSS intake or buy adapters to run a windsor intake. price motorsports sells the adapters for 200 bucks i believe? they may be 300, but i'm not going to check, i'm on my phone
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 02, 2011, 03:47:28 PM
Just fo
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on October 02, 2011, 07:46:46 PM
i hope so.. this is a ford forum after all lol
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: hypostang on October 03, 2011, 11:22:28 AM
What was that saying from years back ..... oh yeah I remember .... "any idiot can build a chevy"
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: Shadow on October 03, 2011, 08:50:43 PM
prettly much.. i built my dad's 305 when i was 13 and didn't know too much.. motor still runs to this day and i'm 25 :giggle:
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 03, 2011, 09:53:40 PM
[quot
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 03, 2011, 09:59:58 PM
vv
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: hypostang on October 03, 2011, 10:02:44 PM
Quote from: TOM Renzo;369134
So i would like to know what then difference in building any engine is???? Is installing pistons in a ford different than a chevy??? I fail to understand what this RIDICULOUS STATEMENT MEANS

Assembling is different than building first off..........  BUT .....I'm not getting into that with you .

NOW about the statement 
It was a joke ...... now friggen relax  before you have a heart attack..    you really need to lighten up dude  This is like the fifth or sixth time I have observed  you getting your panties in a bunch over humor
Title: Cam for Turbocharging 5.0
Post by: TOM Renzo on October 04, 2011, 06:46:41 AM
I kn