OK I need some subframe connectors. I tried looking at old posts with the search function but couldn't seem to find anything. What subframe connectors do you guys recommend. I want weld-in types for a decent price not too expensive.
I have heard that pretty much any 79 to 93 should work. can any body conferm this?
Nope, there to short.
MM makes some for 83-88 T-Birds, or you can make them yourself if money is the issue.
I've thought about making my own. I just figured Mustang pieces would work but when you think about it I guess they would be different. Anyone have pics of one's they've fabricated themselves?
40bob.com
79-93 Mustang ones are not too short, had a set on my 87 XR7, fit like a glove. :D
My opinion is... if you're going to install subframe connectors...put on full length ones. Problem is, nobody makes them.
Global West sells full length TBird SubFrame connectors. Nearly $200 though.
EDIT: Suppose I should post a link. *duh* Global West - TBird SubFrame Connectors (http://www.globalwest.net/mustang%2079-98.htm#Subframe%20connectors:)
I couldn't remember of anyone having mustang subframe connectors and I was not 100% sure if the wheelbase was the same or not. I guess if some of you have them then mustang pieces would be the way to go. I do want the improvement in handling but I also would like to get them to strengthen the frame to handle my motor buildup planned for later in the year. I've heard some real horror stories about twisted subframes on fox-bodies before. I would imagine you get what you pay for as the more expensive products are probably made of thicker steel than others. So does anyone have pics of their subframes on a t-bird or coug?
Ah, I had forgotten about the Global West offerings. I can't believe MM makes full lengths for Mark VIIs but not Tbirds.
Are the Tbird GW subframes cylindrical? I'm not big into cylindrical subframes. They may sport an increased moment of inertia in the y-axis, but the small weld area leads a lack of shear between the subframe and the connector, allowing decreased stiffness compared to a std. rectangular subframe connector.
I made a spreadsheet (http://www.knology.net/~belchja/moi.xls) to calculate x/y moments of inertia and the polar moments of inertia (resistance to bending). These are only for a straight piece of tubing. Once you add bends, these numbers mean nothing. Also, the relative stiffness of the attachments play a large part in the total stiffness gained from the subframe connectors. The only real way to calculate the torsional resistance increase is to test the whole car.
Did somebody forget that ChuckW makes them....? Or at least, used to. Chuck?
not to mension, kenny brown. even tho the site is down thats where i got mine.
Yeah, I used to...not enough interest for me to pursue them any longer though. I do have a few sets of the lasered crossbars and hardware I used (as shown in the pic). Someone can use them with their own main tube material (2" wide) if they so desired.
KB has pretty much dropped all the Tbird stuff, and if they have any SFC's left I'd be surprised. They're only 4' long anyway. Since I have my drawings for the crossbars, they won't be doing any more. The main tubes I used were 5' long.
EDIT - pic attached of what mine looked like....
I just purchased a set of Mustang connectors for my 87 XR7. I really wouldn't recommend them to anyone with a bird or cougar. They are long enough to hit front and back frame rails, but I don't think they have enough overlap to significantly strengthen the car's structure. My car is going to be a serious drag racer, so I need all the stiffness I can get. I am either going to get a full length set or just buy some heavy square tubing. I have not looked yet, but I think I could get some 1.5" chromoly channel that would be much lighter and still stiffer than the regular 1" cold-rolled steel that most sub-frame connectors are made of. With the extra strength, I don't think I will need to bend the tubing to hug the body the whole way. I can just burn it fast to the front and back frames, and if there is room, maybe tie them together side to side in a few places.
while we're on this topic...
ive always that tube would be much stronger for subframe connectors than standard square tubing?
The spreadsheet I posted lets you play around with tubing dimensions...but my previous disclaimers still apply.
I think round tubing would definatley look cooler IMO. But I guess as long as it's functional looks don't really matter. I'm going to talk to a guy who owns a welding/fabrication shop this weekend and see what he thinks. I might end up either making my own or having him make some for me if the price is right. With the price of steel right now I doubt if it will be very cheap! WIth my car being lowered I definately want to make sure I'll have plenty of clearance as well.
So the question still for me is, are Mustang subframes a different length? I need to find a fox stang and measure it up and then compare that to my T-bird. What is the wheelbase on our cars anyway?
Not to answer my own question but from what I can find using google it looks like fox stangs had a wheelbase of about 100.4 inches while cougars/tbirds were 104 inches. This would explain a difference in subframe connectors I guess.
Another difference is where the rear subframe comes out of the torque box. On the Mustangs it is level and on the Tbirds, the subframe droops down a touch before rising up. Alot of the Mustang SFCs extend back over the rear subframe a touch. On A Tbird you can't, which is why I did mine so they would extend back a couple extra inches onto the rear SF. Also, if you're wanting to make use of a mid-span crossbar under the front seats, the stud locations are different between the platforms too. I recommend this mid-span support, regardless of what mat'l you use for the main tube.
Another addition to consider is adding some reinforcements out at the rocker panels. I have some 1" square welded along the inside of the pinchweld on mine. It adds some rigidity and even more can be had when you tie it into the SFCs. Another bonus? You can jack up the car from any point along the rocker panel and set jack stands more outboard to make working under the car less congested.
My car is caged...so that helps tie things together too ;)
A good idea. I hate trying to squeeze under the car when working under it. I wish I could afford a lift! BTW Chuck W we need some more pics of your silver car :bowdown: !
I'll let you all know what I come up with this weekend at my buddies welding shop. Something else that makes me consider making my own is that I have access to a production line that uses powder coating...so I'm thinking some custom subframe connectors with red powder coat :evilgrin: ...I love it when a plan comes together.
Sounds like a money maker to me! Time for you to go into business.
Heh...only when folks will actually come off their wallets :giggle: Otherwise you're just stuck with parts.
If you're going to powder-coat them you maight as well tape off the areas where you're going to be welding (to avoid having to grind the areas later and minimize the potential damage from the heat from welding) and paint those areas later.
I've been busy under the hood of the Tbird here recently. That and trying to get the side mouldings cleaned up for refinishing :yuck: I want to have it moving under it's own power when I take it back out for him to paint the cage after I weld it in....
Back to the topic at hand. Really ANYTHING you do on a Fox chassied car in the realm of stiffening is going to make a difference. You'll be surprised even how much of a difference you'll notice driving the car out of the driveway w/ SFCs for the first time...
Here are couple of poor pictures of the SFC's in my t-bird
These are the laser cut brackets Chuck supplies. This is a good deal, as you can just source the tubing local and save that shipping.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/286291390/292283624FkNYFs
For what you can see, here they are isnstalled with the brackets
http://community.webshots.com/photo/286291390/324071716mXEmVM
This was a GREAT improvement in the feel of the car.
Bob Myers