Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Swapping => Topic started by: Coldcougar on June 28, 2011, 02:28:00 PM

Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Coldcougar on June 28, 2011, 02:28:00 PM
well, after doing some searching, and discovering i might have a front main seal leak, or something to that effect, I have decided to look down the road of building an engine for the cougar. I did some preliminary research around here and on cool cats, along with a few other sites just gathering some information, and I had a few questions that I figured you guys would be able to answer.

If i do it, it will be fairly built, nothing out of the box/monstrous blower sticking out of the hood, but respectably done.

the general swap, will i need to swap the subframe? i know that the 302 has a split drain pan with two oil drain plugs, because it was too big to have a full pan.

are the bolt patterns fairly similar ie: can i use a 302 head on a 351 block? or are they considered the same thing. technically shouldnt the only real difference between the two blocks be maybe a different crankshaft with longer journal offsets, and larger piston bores? or am i out to lunch and they are completely different? I talked to a guy at a show i was at recently, and he said something about the 351 sitting higher in the engine bay, which would lead me to believe that its a bigger block entirely.

I think the best thing would be a comparison between the two blocks, if anyone knows where one is, it would be an immense help.

I also thought about making my life really easy and looked up a crate engine from ford...turns out I must have left my brain somewhere. they offer a 351 based engine...its a 427, for a paltry $9,249.00 to $13,595.00. in other words, Ill buy a bike before I buy a crate engine.

Thanks for the help...once again
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: hypostang on June 28, 2011, 03:48:34 PM
The 351  is a taller block . I had some comparison pics I'll see if I can find them
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: vinnietbird on June 28, 2011, 04:16:14 PM
A 351W will bolt down just like the 5.0.........You will need the Fox style double sump oil pan, headers, and the 5.0 motor mounts will swp over to the 351.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: thewestie on June 28, 2011, 04:28:03 PM
I used Chucks mounts and a motorsport double sump pan and BBK swap shorty headers with 1 5/8 primaries. I have a mild build and if you go big you should look at long tube headers with bigger primaries, the more power the more it will want to breathe.The 351 is wider and taller than a 302 something like an inch or a little more someone will probably chime in with exact #'s. I went with a performer intake and carb so as far as hood clearance with efi I cant help but I'm sure its been done
Good luck
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on June 28, 2011, 08:38:20 PM
......here ya go....hope it helps.

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,39.0/topicseen.html
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Coldcougar on June 29, 2011, 12:25:30 AM
wow that was a bomb shell of information! once again you guys pull through like no tomorrow! one thing i noticed reading was this:
"2) Get new motor mounts. If your mounts are questionable already, the additional weight of the 351W will make them fail in a hurry. I recommend the 87-93 convertable mounts, which will work in any 79-93 Mustang. "

now thewestie mentioned chucks mounts, and the article said buy new ones... could that be new 302 mounts, or could i/do i have to go up to a 351 mount... if they're made, or would a better choice be talking with chuck w?
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: thewestie on June 29, 2011, 12:30:17 AM
I have a different k frame from a 83 the 87 88 k frame uses a different mount I think the 83 can use mustang mount ? There will be more info soon
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on June 29, 2011, 08:03:02 PM
Quote from: Coldcougar;362467
wow that was a bomb shell of information! once again you guys pull through like no tomorrow! one thing i noticed reading was this:
"2) Get new motor mounts. If your mounts are questionable already, the additional weight of the 351W will make them fail in a hurry. I recommend the 87-93 convertable mounts, which will work in any 79-93 Mustang. "

now thewestie mentioned chucks mounts, and the article said buy new ones... could that be new 302 mounts, or could i/do i have to go up to a 351 mount... if they're made, or would a better choice be talking with chuck w?
  I personally can't speak for Chuck's mounts, but everything I've read about them points to a well made quality product with attention to detail. The reason for the convertible mounts is that you gain a bit more hood clearance needed with the taller deck height. The mounts drop the engine an additional 3/8 to 1/2 inch closer to the frame.  Good luck whichever way you go.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Coldcougar on July 15, 2011, 03:38:29 PM
how Difficult would it be going to like a 460?
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Beau on July 16, 2011, 02:45:59 AM
You'll need a different trans with a 460...

I'd go with a 351w, over the big block, myself. Less weight, less cost.

Hell, if you're gonna go all out...get an LSx...2 valve power all the way baby!


Honestly...throw a 3.8 in there...they're hard to beat, lol
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: mcb82gt on July 16, 2011, 10:32:55 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;363527

Hell, if you're gonna go all out...get an LSx...2 valve power all the way baby!



:rollin:  Your a rat.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: 86caprirs on July 17, 2011, 05:15:38 PM
Swap is easy. Just build the engine the way you want to then install it. I used the chuck mounts. Awesome. I used the swap headers from bbk and a 95 5.0L x pipe. Then modified a Magnaflow cat back exhaust to work with the tbird body. I used 18" tips for the exhaust to reach the back of the car. Then do a mass air swap too. Then get a tune. I have not tuned mine because i am still waiting for my trans to be rebuilt.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Coldcougar on July 17, 2011, 08:29:39 PM
^yeah i had plans to go nutty and put in a massive engine, just because i couldnt find a cleveland in the area, but ive since found one, so 351 all the way! its even out of a 1970 cougar xr7. BONUS! but im definately carbing it.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: 86caprirs on July 17, 2011, 09:50:12 PM
I wanted to do a 460/E4od swap but could not find a Econoline in the wreakers that was not under 500000km
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: RobertFord on August 12, 2011, 03:32:21 AM
Hey sweet this is exactly what I'm wantin to do to my 88 xr7. Will I need to beat on the firewall any for this to work? I know 351 is soo very close in size but I wanted to double check. Gettin some ported C9 heads tomorrow for my windsor. After I get the motor built and find all the goodies to swap in a t5 I think I'll have a pretty sweet ride.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: RobertFord on August 12, 2011, 03:51:06 AM
Just havin a rough time deciding on 4bbl or spending all the extra for efi.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: QUICKSHIFT on August 12, 2011, 09:14:29 PM
Carb all the way for simplicity, but hey,I'm old school. No computer, high pressure lines, sensors, MAP TPSs etc etc.         
No start....check for fuel and spark...KISS.
  I'm knocking down 25+ MPG with a carb and 4.10s and power to boot!

  PS: Carbs are my niche of expertise.
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: RobertFord on August 13, 2011, 01:09:42 AM
Dang that's pretty awesome. You runnin a 351?
Title: 5.0 to a 351
Post by: Coldcougar on August 21, 2011, 11:01:39 PM
anyone know what kind of dimension change the different years of 351 where made? is there a certain block from a certain car that would be preferrable, and/or one i should stay away from?

my supposed deal from the '70 failed to pan out. turns out the"engine" was still in the car, which was then "conditionally sold." two days later another ad goes up just for the engine. i quit trying.