As I'm sure some of you have seen in my other thread, I am doing the T-5 conversion on my car. I have committed to going on Hot Rod Power tour the 1st of June so the goal is to have the swap done and get some "shakedown" miles on it beforehand. This will be somewhat of a challenge time-wise as I work 6 days a week!
I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I may need the help of some of you experts here in case I hit any brick walls! So far, working on it for a couple of hours a night for the past two days I have got the steering column out along with the drivers seat and am about to get the stock brake pedal assembly out.
I have used the search function extensively but there are a few things I am still unclear on:
1.) The swap kit I bought came with a complete T5 wiring harness out of a Fox Mustang. I see on the clutch pedal assembly there are a couple of wiring plug-ins. I assume one is for the neutral safety. I'm not sure what the other is for (cruise control?).
Question is, should I use the fox Mustang harness or will I be able to get by somehow with what is currently in my T-bird? If I do use the fox harness how involved is it to change out and what would be the benefit? If I can somehow splice my current wiring, what needs to be done?
2.) I have searched everywhere for this but does anyone have a pic of how the clutch cable routes out of the firewall and down to the tranny? I even have a Haynes shop manual and don't see any clear pics of the cable routing.
3.) I printed out Eric's template off of coolcats for cutting the hole in the trans tunnel (btw, good job Eric). The template was actually listed under "AOD column to floor shift conversion". I assume the hole a guy needs to cut for the 5 speed is in the same spot and is of the same exact dimensions as a AOD floor shift?
Guess that's it for now. Any help on those questions would be greatly appreciated. I hope to be grabbing gears soon!
On the clutch cable, you should see a grommet/plug near your brake booster, at about the 10:00-11:00 position. This is where the clutch cable comes through the firewall.
The cable itself goes forward in the bay a bit, then loops back and down to get to the bellhousing.
And make sure you use some method of securing it away from your headers...
OK Chuck, I did notice that grommet last night and figured that would be where it comes out.
That's the part I can't envision in my head. It's one of those things I will probably just have to deal with when I get to that point.
The portion of the swap I'm sweating a little bit right now is the wiring. I don't want to get all this swapped in and the car not want to start up! I have this T-5 wiring harness but I guess I just don't understand where it all routes to and connects in.
Tonights progress: got the original pedal assembly removed, driveshaft out, h-pipe out, all the trans linkage out, removed the tranny cooler lines, starter unbolted and pushed aside.
I do need help identifying these connectors on my new pedal assembly. What am I supposed to do with these suckers? I'm totally lost as to what to do here. Wiring stuff is totally not my strength when it comes to wrenching on cars.
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/connector1.jpg)
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/connector2.jpg)
I noticed this connector on my AOD (disregard the tranny fluid coating everything). I assume I will need to somehow splice into this?:
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/aodconnector.jpg)
I have those plugs and don't use them, nor did I use a T-5 harness. I just plugged my T-5 into the harness I already had for the backup lights and left it at that. It's been great....just remember to press the clutch before I start the car.LOL.
OK sweet I guess...I just thought it would be nice for the neutral safety to work in the situation where my future kid gets in, turns the key, and crashes through the garage wall. lol.
I usually always press in the clutch anyway so it shouldn't be a problem if it doesn't work.
The first pic is a clutch neutral safety switch I didn't use that i wish I did. The second plug what does it go to ? the third ?
If you want the clutch switch to function you just have to pull the plug on c545 and run 2 wires from it to the plug in your hand. There is no difference to which wire goes where. C545 is tucked up near the left side of the pedal assembly. and has a white/pink and a red/light blue wire.
The switch simply opens unless the clutch is pushed. If closed it completes the circuit sending power from the ignition START to the starter solenoid on the fender well.
I don't know for sure, but if the plug has a single wire looping back into itself you can use that connector and cut the looped wire, using the cut wires to run the extension wires into your clutch plug.
You can't mess it up, really.
Worked on the car for about 2 hrs tonight and got the AOD out. Tomorrow's work will involve cutting the hole for the shifter and getting the new pedal assembly in. Hopefully all goes well and we make good progress.
flylear45, I will look for this c545 you mentioned tomorrow when I hang the pedals. It would be nice for the clutch switch to work correctly.
Pull the steering column and remove the driver side seat before you hang the pedals. If you do that, it's really not a big deal after that.
On second thought, c545 might just plug right into that connector.
Oh don't worry Vinnie, pulling the front seat and column was the 1st thing I did on the whole project.
Made huge progress today (I took pics but forgot to bring the camera home):
1.) bolted tranny to bellhousing
2.) installed crossmember, tranny mount, etc
3.) marked and cut hole for shifter (ending up drilling pilot holes and then cutting it out with some tin snips)
4.) installed center console (thanks vinnie for the sweet console lid, matches my dashtops.com dash cover perfectly)
5.) installed shifter, shifter bezel, etc. This was a big moral victory...seeing the shifter poking up though there was a feel good moment!
6.) rewired my Stewart-Warner tach
7.) fixed some slop in the steering column (had to remove turn signal switch and hazard switch, there were two bolts that had backout out over time allowing too much side-to-side play in the column)
8.) hung steering column,hooked steering shaft back up
9.) re-installed stock driveshaft (old AOD shaft fit perfectly)
10.) found out my brake lights stay on all of the time. I installed the brake light switch incorrectly, will have to fix that tomorrow.
Still to do:
1.) finish installing all interior trim
2.) hack the old consolette off the seat and re-install seat
3.) secure the clutch cable to the firewall and find a good way to secure it to the frame rail
4.) add tranny fluid (bought Mercon V, from everything I read this is the correct stuff to use?)
5.) fire it up on jack stands and set up the clutch pedal
6.) fix my incorrectly installed brake light switch
7.) reinstall h-pipe, o2 sensors etc
8.) drive, drive, drive
My Uncle and I have done all of the work and have had a lot of fun. We never really spent a lot of time together when I was growing up so its been great spending "bonding" time with him. Everything has just fell into place and worked great so far. I am hoping to have it on the road by the end of the week and plan to put on as many miles as possible in the next couple of weeks before Power Tour to work out any gremlins.
Still plugging away...we ran into a few snags tonight. Its always the small details that take so much time!
The hangers for the H-pipe would not work so we had to cut them off. I plan to run to the welding shop tomorrow and buy some cold rolled steel to use to fabricate new hangers.
We noticed that the battery tray is loose due to some rusty fasteners. I need to go to the Ace tomorrow and get some new hardware.
Fastened the clutch cable bracket to a hole in the strut tower, fixed the incorrectly installed brake light switch, and filled the trans with fluid.
I was really hopeful that the car would be sitting on the ground and running under its own power tonight but it looks like we have a couple of more evenings of work left. I still need to cut the consolette off my seat which may take longer than expected as well. She should still be on the road by the weekend baring any serious problems.
I know how the details make the difference in time, believe me!
Some things fall together, others just have to be wrestled to the ground. I especially hate having to run out for parts after I thought I had everything.
Sounds like you are getting close. Should be a nice swap.
Yes, I hate having to take an hour or two to make a parts run. Wrestling the exhaust all back into place was a real bear as well...a lift would have helped things a bunch.
I hope we make good progress tonight!
If you change the tranny fluid go to the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF. I have used it in the T-5 in my Coupe for over 10 years and I beat on that car quite a bit and have had zero issues relative to the fluid. Had it rebuilt about five years ago but I bought it used so who knows how many miles it had on it then. It was just normal wear and tear as far as the builder could tell.
Some may frown on this but I use two quarts of the Mobil 1 synthetic ATF and one quart of the Mobil 1 synthetic rear gear oil. Its just a personal preference and from what we can see (a couple of my buddies run this as well) the transmissions have held up better over time.
Darren
I already put conventional ATF in it, but will keep that in mind when I change it. That's interesting...I have a T-5 tech manual and I'm fairly certain it says to not use synthetic. Sounds like that's incorrect though if you ran it that long without problems.
I also use the factory suggested ATF. No issues at all. The Sport is really fun to drive with the 5 speed. You'll love it.
I read that you had already filled it with the factory suggest ATF but was just giving an alternative. If you search around you will find that Mobil 1 has been approved by Tremec and several builders are using the Amsoil synthetic. These both are compatable with the blockers in the T-5. The tech manual you have is current but has not been updated in years and the synthetics have evolved since then. Some people swear by the Mobil 1 and others by the Amsoil but again there is absolutely nothing wrong with the regular ATF.
Darren
I have driven the car with the T5!!! There is a little problem with the clutch pedal adjustment, however. I pulled upwards on the clutch pedal so that the quadrant is in the "notch" furthest forward but the only engagement I get on the clutch is literally all the way on the floor.
Is there any other way to adjust it? Surely there is a way to get the quadrant to ratchet further forward and pull more cable.
Other than the pedal adjustment, the car drives GREAT. Runs smooth down the road with no shimmy's, shakes, or other drama. The used transmission I bought seems to be in great shape with no odd noises or anything. I am still not sure if my speedo is correct...it seems to be reading high. I counted the teeth on the speedo drive gear and there appear to by 7, I am running the red 21 tooth (?) speedo gear. by everything I've read this should be optimum with the 3.73's I am running. Minor detail...
double post
I'll go Mobil 1 when I swap the fluid in the tranny next time. I run Mobil 1 fluids in the engine and differential as well.
Doing a little research today on my clutch adjustment problem. I found this article on corral: http://www.corral.net/tech/drivetrain/clutcha.htm
Have you guys ever attempted "method 2" the article discusses? Anyone think this will help me?
I have an aftermarket billet quadrant and an adjustable cable. I have the original parts in a bag in my tool box.
So will I have to go aftermarket on the cable or are were there factory adjustable ones available? From what I've read the Ford clutch cables are the best out there.
Jeez I bet it will be a pain to change that quadrant with the pedals in the car. Wish I would have just got one and installed it while I had everything out.
If you have an aftermarket quadrant, you need a firewall adjuster (mine wouldn't fit with the big factor brake booster) and/or an adjustable cable. My cable without a firewall adjuster has been fine. The firewall adjuster makes it easy to adjust from under the hood instead of under the car. It only takes a few minutes to adjust under the car (Practice I suppose).
Quadrant change in the car sucks but it can be done. I cut mine up with a pneumatic saw and then it was not problem. The saw fit up in the work space and I just hacked the stocker down until it was manageable.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SP100A1798S1705453203P?prdNo=22&blockNo=72&blockType=G72
The aluminum quadrant installs with no issues as it is not as bulky as the stock POS. I have both the firewall adjuster and adjustable cable on both of my cars but I am running the SN95 boosters so the firewall adjuster is not an issue. I have not had an adjustable cable break and ran the same one on my Coupe for 8 years. Replaced it due to the sheath being in bad shape from chaffing on the stock K-Member so I replaced it when I put the MM tubular unit in a few years ago. I run the adjustable clutch cables from Steeda:
http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/ST-1720000/82-95-Mustang-Steeda-Adjustable-Clutch-Cable
Darren
I am curious what happened on the clutch lock out wiring?
Oops I forgot to mention that. I ended up just jumpering the safety switch and going without it. ;)
I did get my clutch pedal adjustment lined out tonight. I used the "method 2" mentioned in that corral link I posted earlier. I just pushed up on that tab until it clicked once and now my clutch pedal grabs several inches off the floorboard. I drove the car about 20 miles and so far so good! Eventually I plan to upgrade to an adjustable cable and new quadrant.
The only thing I need to finish up is to find a way to attach the shifter trim . The tabs that hold it down on the front section are broken so I'm afraid I may have to use silicone or something to get me by until I get a new bezel. I also am going to try and put in the 23-tooth speedo gear I had in my AOD to see if it gets my speedo closer to being correct.
(http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr313/50tbrd88/car%20stuff/DSCF2365.jpg)
Here is a "nearly finished" pic!
Kewl!
I read that you were able to count the teeth on the drive gear on the output shaft of the T-5 and came up with 7. What color was the drive gear? Also, what brand and make of tire are you running along with the size?
Darren
sarjxxx did a thread on a repair of the console with clips?
We must have miscounted the # of teeth on the drivegear (its kinda hard to count peering through that little hole, lol). The drive gear appeared to be a yellowish-white color. I thought at the time it looked more yellow but I must have been wrong. I'm hoping the purple 23-tooth speedo gear will get it closer to being correct. Right now at 55 mph its off by about 5mph or so.
I'm running 245/45/17 Falken Ziex ze512's tires.
Thanks I will look into that.
EDIT: Went and looked at sarjxxx's thread....lol, I already did fix the rear portion with the clips just like he did. I guess we all think alike when it comes to these cars. My problem is on the front part. The two little "tabs" that point down are broken off.
I drove the car to work yesterday and also drove it tonight to take my wife out for dinner. I can already tell you that the car is tons more fun to drive now! Its strange to get used to the clutch pedal feel, etc compared to my Mustang but after a few miles I really like how it drives. Its also wierd to not have my column shifter and original consolette. Its almost like driving a totally different car.
Only remaining problems: 1.) the cruise doesn't work. I think maybe I did not get the vacuum line thingy on the brake pedal hooked back up right. 2.) This thing makes some wierd noises in reverse, especially when turning in reverse. The sound is very similar to the noise you hear when brake rotors get rusty from a car sitting around. Not sure what that is all about.
Accroding to Falken's site (http://www.falkentire.com/Tires/Ziex-ZE-512-13) those tires have a 25.7" OD.
With the diameter being 25.7", a 7 tooth drive gear, and 3.73's you would need a 20.5 tooth driven gear so most would choose a 21 tooth read gear. With an 8 tooth drive gear you would need a 23.4 tooth driven gear and the only choice is the 23 tooth white gear. The problem with the 23 tooth units is that they have a tendency to sheer the teeth off or so many have experienced. If the 23 tooth driven gear does sheer the teeth then the other option is to pull the tail housing on the T-5 and install a black 6 tooth drive gear and then install the 18 tooth yellow driven gear. This will fix the problem and allow for flexibility down the road.
Typically a change in the driven gear by one tooth is about 5% . For example, if the car is going 60 mph and the speedo is showing 75 mph this means it is reading about 25% too slow. You would need to reduce the number of driven teeth by five to get it correct. So reduce the number of driven teeth to speed the speedo up and add teeth to the driven gear to slow the speedo down. Hope that makes sense.
Darren
I currently have a purple speedo gear from my AOD that I made to work in the T5 (had to cut some excess off the end of it). My speedo is about 6-7 mph off. I had thought that my purple gear was a 23 tooth but I guess I must have been mistaken (its been too long since I originally bought it). I guess I need to take it out and count to be sure, but if it is off by 6-7 mph it sounds like I have too few teeth on it.
Wow that makes my head hurt, lol. I'm gonna buy a white 23 tooth and install...hopefully it should be fairly close.
Found this nifty formula: (#of drive gear X rear axle ratio X tire revs per mile)/1000
That would mean (8 X 3.73 X 815)/1000 = 24.3196
Now divide this by # teeth on the speedo gear to find how much the speedometer will be off:
24.3196/23=1.057
I can deal with my speedo being off by a little over 1%...
The stock T-bird AOD has an 8 tooth drive gear. The purple auto trans gear you have has 21 teeth, which with the stock AOD drive gear makes the speedo read about 5-6 mph fast. I have a black 23 tooth auto trans gear with the stock 8 tooth AOD drive gear in my car and it's off by about 1-2 mph and that's the best it's going to get. Since your T5 has an 8 tooth drive gear you're going to need a white 23 tooth manual trans (T5) speedo drive gear to get your speedo close.
Yeah thunderjet302, I got the 23 tooth white gear bought and coming yesterday...for some reason I thought the purple one I had in my AOD (which I have in the T5 now) was 23 tooth. I guess I either ordered the wrong one back in '04 or they sent me the wrong one. I've been driving around for 7 years with the wrong speedo gear...arg :(. I did count the teeth last night just to be 100% sure and the purple one is indeed 21 teeth.
I can deal with my speedo being off 1-2 mph...its off 6-7 mph now and is very annoying. I'm glad to have a semi-accurate speedo/odo for the Power Tour in a couple of weeks!!