I am having some issues that seem to point towards a head gasket, but would like some input before tearing into the project. The coolant is brown in color and it is running rough. Other than that, there are no symptoms.
I did a compression check and all cylinders are 140-150 across the board. The plugs looked normal. The exhaust isn't spewing white smoke and the oil looks okay. What else can I check to narrow down the problem?
Compression test results:
1-140
2-145
3-150
4-150
5-150
6-150
7-150
8-150
with the engine running and cold take the radiator cap off and look for exhaust bubbles in the coolant.
Are you using any antifreeze or oil? prestone makes a big funnel with adapters that can screw into the radiator cap and fill it up run the car and look for bubbles. Does it smoke at the exhaust?
I am just getting everything put back together and set up after the engine swap. Over the course of just 20 miles or so, it is difficult to determine fluid use. Fluid levels haven't changed, the coolant has just changed to a murky brown color. It isn't blowing any kind of smoke from the exhaust. I will check for bubbles in the radiator.
Is it possible the coolant passages in the swapped engine were rusty? Not sure if that would even cause that, just throwing a thought out there?
If there is no bubbling, maybe flush the coolant system and add fresh and see what develops??
What Mike said. Could just be rust. (Hopefully)
Agreed. Use one of the radiator flush products with water to flush any more out, and then try new coolant. When you drain the anti-freeze thats in there, let it sit in a container for a little while or a clear jar. After an hour or so look at it. If its rust/debris, it should more than likely sink. Oil, etc will float. Just my thoughts.
Maybe do a Leak Down on #1 and #2
I will try the jar thing. I hate to waste the money on flushing and refilling if the new coolant will get polluted all over again. It very well could be rust, the water pump on it was stuck at first and a bunch of brown gunk came out when I flushed it before installation. Maybe I didn't get all the rust out of the system.
It's worth a shot. It should be a clear distinction between oil/antifreeze mixed and rust/antifreeze, I would think.
It is definitely oil :( Looks like my weekend is booked...
IMHO, this is a candidate for the $100 flush (I am retired so it is free now, but you have to do it yourself). Go ahead and run it for now, as long as it is not losing coolant or overheating. A few days of running will scrub the passages and loosen up lots of the crud in there. Find a spot where you can make a big mess, because there will be a big rusty stain on the concrete and antifreeze flowing in the gutter when you are done. If possible park the car with the nose steeply downward and the wheels safely blocked, so the engine will drain better. Safely remove the radiator cap and open the radiator drainpen 15. Remove the heater hose that flows out of the block and point it downward so that it can gush water. Stick a garden hose into the radiator filler neck, start the engine and regulate the water flow so that it just overflows a little at the filler neck. The discharge hose should be puking brown water onto the ground. When the discharge hose flows clear, pinch it off to make water flow backwards through the heater core. It needs cleaning too. When all the discharge water is clear, turn off the garden hose and watch the discharge hose. As soon as the discharge stream stops flowing, turn the water back on (don't worry, it's not gong to overheat). The bubbles and turbulence this sudden surge causes will drive more crud out. Repeat until the discharge stream is clear. When finished, turn off the garden hose first, then when the discharge hose stops flowing shut off the engine and let it drain well. When you refill it remember that there is still quite a lot of pure water trapped in the block so add pure green AF until full and then test after running.
and my 2c worth.
this is what i did several years ago.....
go to napa and pic up a packet of those valve stems. They come with a complete install kit so you just add it to a car rim.
undo and plug off your heater core hose connections with a bolt or something and a clamp.
sacrafice your upper radiator hose by installing this on the upper hose.
get you bike pump and add about 10 or so psi and watch the needle on the bike pump (one of those foot pedal pumps).
You may have to add a larger flat washer on the front and back side to help seal.
if you see it leak down, you need to listen and find out where the leak is.
have all your spark plugs out as well as your dip stick to listen there as well.
You might have to pick up a stethiscope from harbor frieght to help pinpoint.
I would first off flush the darn thing out, its really hard to judge now with just an initial load of coolant.
Like said, get the nose down and work your garden hose.
and my 2c worth on an inexpensive leak down test.
this is what i did several years ago.....
go to napa and pic up a packet of those valve stems. They come with a complete install kit so you just add it to a car rim.
undo and plug off your heater core hose connections with a bolt or something and a clamp.
sacrafice your radiator hose by installing this on the LOWER hose.
if you simply poke a hole near the hose clamp (radiator side) and install close to the clamp, you can just trim off later and not have to buy a new lower hose.
get your bike pump and add about 10 or so psi and watch the needle on the bike pump (one of those foot pedal pumps or 12v powered)
You may have to add a larger flat washer on the front and back side of the valve stem to help seal.
add air and if you see it leak down, you need to listen and find out where the leak is.
what you are doing above is injecting air into the lower hose and pushing presure up towards the thermostat which stops all air at that point. sure there is presure on the bypass of the water pump but thats why you have your heater core hoses blocked off, I didnt want you to blow your heater core.
have all your spark plugs out , oil fill cap off as well as your oil dip stick to listen there as well.
You may want to have your PCV valve hose out as well to listen in there for any noise.
You might have to pick up a stethiscope from harbor frieght to help pinpoint.
I would first off flush the darn thing out, its really hard to judge now with just an initial load of coolant.
Like said, get the nose down and work your garden hose.
Definitely going to try the flush and see what happens. Probably going to waste a little coolant, but if it turns out okay, I will be a happy camper. It also seems to be running very poorly after the compression check, so I think something is up w/ the ignition. I checked all the wires and the cap/rotor are new. The plugs are the bosch platinum type that don't require gapping. I have read that these plugs are not a good option for older engines? I wasn't going to change them, since that is what it came with.
Anyway... I will flush it, refill it, and see what happens.
I run $1.99 copper plugs. Never had a problem.
Go to a hardware store and find a good tee you can splice into the hose, I would prefer the upper. Undo the radiator drian plug, stick you garden hose in the tee and just let it flush for a bit till it comes out clear and call it a day. Also check your oil and make sure your "new" motor is not filling with water.
Not running right- check for vac leaks and I would put a new set of copper plugs, Motorcraft/Autolight
I figured out why it was running so poorly... When I was working on plug 8, I must have busted the vacuum connector on the brake booster. Fixed that and now it runs much better, great actually. Still need to investigate the coolant pollution. Flushing the system is on the agenda for tomorrow. Thanks for the help so far, guys!
Fingers crossed!
Good luck, let us know.
Go to an auto shop and use an exhaust gas buttstuffyzer to sniff the coolant for hydrocarbons in your coolant-most definitive method of diagnosing a head gasket.
I am highly doubting a head gasket now. Everything seems to check out okay with the only symptom being brown coolant. To avoid turning my driveway into an ice rink, I am putting off the coolant system flush until it warms up.
no its not.
compression test then physical inspection/verification.
blackberries and electronic gizmos dont do everything.
use a bucket maybe. shouldnt take but one cycle of new coolant to verify.
Not if you didn't knock the freeze plugs out and douche the block you didn't...
If you can put the coolant into a container and let it set a few days, you'll be able to pour off the clean coolant and save probably 90% of it...
Did you just compare an Exhaust Gas buttstuffyzer to a Blackberry? Can't remember the last time my phone gave me a HC, CO or a NOx reading...
The point jcassity was trying to make is we all jump to technology to solve problems for us immediately without thinking. Sometimes a little intuition and "the old fashioned way" of doing something is still the most effective.
Well, I flushed the system thoroughly, refilled the coolant and started it up. Within a couple of miles, it turned brown again. Also, it isn't idling as well as it could and I am starting to get a little white smoke in the exhaust when first starting it. It just may be the head gasket after all. I will try a leakdown test when I get the necessary supplies. Has anyone used the liquid head gasket repair stuff with any success? I might give that a shot to save a little time.
A leakdown test confirmed my fears. Coolant is sneaking into cylinder 1. I am still not getting coolant in the oil, so I am trying something I read about with the K&W head gasket/block sealer:
Swap the gasket. Do it right the first time. It's not that big of a job, and you get peace of mind. Actually, swap them both. I figure if I had an engine torn down that much, may as well pull the other head and install two new gaskets.
If the sealer doesn't work, I will. It could probably use upgraded heads and if I pull them, I will replace them with better. I don't have the money for new heads at this point, so the sealer is likely a temporary fix until I have more cash to spare.
Update: So far so good. The sealer worked as advertised. No more brown coolant, no more smoke. I will update periodically and let everyone know how it holds up.
Cool. Glad it worked out for you. I have heard good stuff about that sealer, and plan to give the Daytona a treatment using it. The 2.2's are notorious for small coolant leaks, and the Dodge guys use that sealer all the time with good results.