I am thinking about swapping the steering rack form my TC into the Cougar. It looks easy enough to take out of the TC because it doesn't have an engine in it but is there any tricks to getting it out with an engine in? Doesn't look like there is too much room. Also, do I separate it by removing the bolt circled on the pic below? Does it just slide out after removing that and the two 18mm nuts? I will probably remove the alternator and power steering on the Cougar to have better access when I got to that part of the job. Any advice is helpful, thanks!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/steering.jpg)
That's pretty much it. It may not "just slide out" of the coupler @ the column, but it should work out easy enough once the cinch bolt is out. Obviously you need to remove the tie rods from the spindles as well.
If the current rack in the Cougar is not a 15:1 rack, you need to update the PS pump in the car to match the TC rack.
Thanks for the quick answer Chuck. I do have a tie rod separator since I just got done swapping the spindles for 11" brakes. The rack in the Cougar is a 20:1 but the pump is from the XR7 I got the engine from so I would assume it is a 15:1 pump.
Great Thread..... will the rack come out of 88 Sport without lifting the motor???? going to do a replacement this weekend while doing a complete Front Energy Suspension bushing install and new struts.... also using a FMS a/c delete kit and moving the p/s pump up.....
why is this? I have no issues with the way my silver tc is set up and I am using a pump from my 79 cougar with a steering box and the 15:1 rack.
The TC rack is out. It wasn't very difficult but took some prying to get it to come off the bushings.
If you look at the top knuckle there is a one bolt that holds it to the column at the firewall.
Unbolting it at the top knuckle won't work because the round part just above the circled bolt is just a little too big to pass through the opening under the motor mount.
but you can pull the whole shaft out of the column
I guess I am not following what you are saying, but am definitely willing to try things to make this job easier. Can you explain how pulling the shaft out of the column would be beneficial in this situation?
You can get to the bolt you have circled in the picture with a short socket, wobble or knuckle joint (what ever its called), and a 6" or 12" extension (been a while). I use all 3/8" drive stuff to this point but use a 3/8" to 1/2" adapter on the rachet end of the extension so I can use a 1/2" drive rachet. More lever arm and less work for me as this bolt is usually a bit tough to break loose.
Just remember to get new teflon washers for the high and low pressure hoses where they connect to the rack. I do all of this from under the car with the exception of separating the outer tie-rods from the spindles.
Darren
Thanks for the response. I actually got the circled bolt out with just a long extension (I do have the alt and PS pump out though.) It didn't put up much of a fight. I took the rack out of the TC without undoing the lines from the rack side and was hoping to do the same for the Cougar rack but if I do end up taking them off there I will be sure to get the teflon washers. I will probably get this done tomorrow morning. I will take pics and update this thread then.
sorry was thinking your were also changing the column.
No prob SirChirpAlot, I appreciate the effort to assist.
I just finished removing the Cougar rack and putting in the TC one. No real problems but prying the rusty splined shaft out of the rack was the hardest part. There wasn't a good place for leverage but I got it out eventually. Pics and details coming later on.
When I took the old leaky rack out of mine, I had to use a rubber hammer and tap on it pretty good, I also squirted a couple shots of something like liquid wrench onto it.
My engine is out though, so that made it easier for me.
As for the pump being matched to the rack, the slower pump will lock up under hard and sudden cornering when used with a quicker ratio rack. I've read it one some other Ford forums as well, so I'd at least have to say it's possible.
So here is how I did mine.
First I soaked all nuts and bolts with PB blaster the night before. I also marked the rotating part of the shock with the stationary part of the shock with the steering wheel in the straight ahead position. Then after removing the tires and supporting the car securely on jack stands I removed the cotter pins and castle nuts (3/4) from where the tie rod ends go into the spindles.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/002-15.jpg)
I used a puller type tie rod remover on the TC (because it has 10" brakes now) but the 11" brakes on the Cougar interfered and I had to use a pickle fork type separator.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/003-13.jpg)
After those were separated I removed the pinch bolt (11mm) connecting the rack to the steering shaft.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/006-10.jpg)
I then held the bolt (rusty, in center of pic) in the back side of the k-member that the rack mounts on with a socket (15mm) and a breaker bar held in place through one of the openings on the k-member...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/004-9.jpg)
...and loosened up the nuts (18mm) on the front side
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/005-8.jpg)
After that it just takes some prying to work the rack loose from the bushings and then some prying to separate the steering shaft from the rack coming off the shaft. Putting the new rack in is pretty much the reverse. I took the bolt out of the steering shaft (between the steering column and the rack) and removed that section from the column. I hung the new rack up on the bolts to mount and then attached the steering shaft to the rack and then attached that to the column. I tried it with the steering shaft still attached to the column first but I just couldn't get the splines to line up on the bottom.
Wow, thanks for the detailed response. REALLY helps to get the picture of what is involved.:bowdown:
Did I miss the answer to this question? I'm facing a rack replacement in my LS and would like to go to 15:1 and therefore, may have to change the pump according to what I'm finding in some of the posts.
(I figured using an old pre-existing thread is better than creating a new one.)
*edit* I found more in another thread :http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?34212-I-need-a-new-steering-gear&highlight=mustang+steering+rack+pump
This appears to have varying opinions and experience results.
i didnt swap to another pump like being said,, but who knows since im running dextron atf in my power steering.
The hardest part about the rack is getting the fittings and wrenches to do what you want up at the cluster F&$^ area where they all come together.
another point is to learn how the innner tie rod ends are installed. There are two types of inners..
****both types are secured in its set point with an allen set screw machined into the knuckle nut,~one has a simple adjustable disc on the inside of the knuckle for fine tuning.
~one has a plastic disc that simply crushes to take up inner slack for fine tuning
most of the time your new rack comes with new inners so its moot but good to know....cause you can destroy a rack if you dont know this.
The next hardest part is dialing in the rack to center to ultimately agree with the steering wheel.
Its funny how being off one spline with wheight off wheels seems to look just fine up in the air then you drive and find out its wrong.
I've got a 15:1 rack with a stock 20:1 pump on my Thunderbird. Works fine and I've never had an issue. It actually feels firmer than the 15:1 rack and pump on my Mark VII.
Most of what changes how the steering response in a rack car like ours is the torsion bar in the rack. You can put a bigger pulley on the pump and slow it down or put restrictors in the high side line but it really all comes down to the T bar in the rack. Most road racers use the larger pump pulley to slow the pump down and keep from running the reservoir dry and to keep the fluid temps lower as there is less work being imparted on the fluid by the pump. The 2003-2004 Cobra rack is the most desired rack due to the increased resistance it has which gives the driver a better feel of the road. Our cars are waaay over boosted so your grandmother could drive them to the grocery store. The SN95 rack is much better than the Fox racks as they offer more resistance but nothing like the Terminator racks.
Anyhow, just thought I would share some info on this as I have several friends who road race and have been down this route a few times.
Darren
ahh, ""less""" power steering
I have randomly revisited this thread because i noticed something.
your control arm bolts are not original.
Well, I've never changed them, lol.
reason i mentioned it is becaue the oem bolt is impossible to get out unless you cut off part of the outter lip.
see below.. if you pull out the bolt, the CA bolt lip conflicts with the rack & pinion.
taking away part of the bolt cures this problem...
I just remove the rack bolts and the rack will move enough to clear the CA bolts when you need to remove them. Not a lot of effort and my bolts stayed whole.
Darren
First never use a PICKLE FORK for anything you want to reuse. And second what the hell is that setup jay you are using to hold that spring????????? Just had to chime in on this as you do not even need a puller to remove a tie rod end or for that matter a ball joint. Pickle forks are used to separate joints that will never be reused as they destroy the sealing boots and they mess up the jopint by stretching it and gthat is DANGEROUS. That is why i chimed in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just me!!
hey tom,,,
well,,, as you may not have noticed and what inspired me to make the tool was / is an illustration in the shop manual pertaining to control arm removal.
this thread has nothing to do with control arms....just fyi.... my pic illustrates the bolt i mentioned to the OP earlier.
i made the tool.
The threaded rod passes through the frame of the car and up through a hole in the frame dead center of the spring with a metal plate and nut up top.
now i have the lower plate with a couple welded shims and a nut at the bottom..
now i can tighten the lower nut and the spring is compressed and safe,, it cant fly out at me,, its 100% bullet proof.
I can compress a spring in 5min from pulling the tool off the wall and being done. *(excludes taking off the tire)
as soon as i found this illustration,, i confirmed the hole in the frame,, also confirmed more of an opening in another strategic area..
so,,,,, the tool has saved me so much time.
I just replaced the rack and the control arms at the same time. Easy as pie :hick:.
Jaty i know exactly what that tool does i have dun springs in many older mustangs and BOX NOVAS. But that is not how you do those springs?? It can be dun that way i guess but a spring bender clamp is the correct way. Not bashing how you did it just surprised as the method you used is OK i guess but have never seen it dun that way on a spring that has a typical ARC!!
Ok as this is a safety issue here is how to separate a ball joint or tie rod end. Remove the cotter pin and nut than hit the joint here till it separates. I have been doing this for 48 years . Never use a PICKLE fork only on a joint that will not be reused. A puller is another way if you have the correct ones but in my view a waste of time and effort. A few blows with a ball pean and bingo it separates and will not harm the joint or the spindle. naturally you have to hit it so the force is controlled inward and not against the rack or it can mess the rack up but not likely. Sometimes a BFH is the answer.Here you go this is how it is dun the correct way!!!!! So once again i am passing on another one of my TRICKS i guess??? HAPPY NEW YEAR
(http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/proguns/001-93.jpg) (http://s740.photobucket.com/user/proguns/media/001-93.jpg.html)
this is also the method I use, from my experience if it doesnt work either get a bigger hammer or hit it harder and it WILL come apart.
Thank you 88 i appreciate the feed back as i have been doing this for more years than i would like to admit!!! I am not bashing anyone with this post let me make that clear. But when someone posts a totally wrong procedure on either brakes or suspensions i will chime in as a safety issue. I am not saying the procedure was wrong as the puller is OK if the correct one is used that is a given. But logic would dictate that a pickle fork will bust up the boot seal in a flash and spread the seating cups in the tie rod ends. I have been in this business for decades and can learn from each other without getting NUTS. Thank you.
i agree, sack it with a hammer but...........
here you go tom,, installed tool from another angle.... cant see how this would be "incorrect" since it didnt cost me a dime and it traps the spring.
Jay standars threaded rosis not very strong. But i get the idea as older fords use a similar tool. BUT i would use a torrington bearing on the mating surfaces. Also a regular J bolt spring compressor installed inside the spring bends the spring in a convex manner making it extreamly easy to install. Reason being once the A frame is dropped the upper and lower pockets are curved away from each other. Just saying.
Jay here is the reason!!!
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/03/this-is-what-happens-when-a-coil-spring-compressor-fails/
thats 5/8'' grade 8 zinc chromate threaded rod and 1/2'' gold chromate grade 8 plate steel and gold chromate grade 8 5/8'' nuts.
thats not stong enough? your goin nuckin futs~~!! (just kidding)
mines better than that pen 15eyed jbolt tool. i get it though... i just wont do it like that.. im chicken shiznit.
i just watched your video,,,
with my tool that event is ***TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE*****
I was just wondering how many times you have to relocate the spring with your method to install it correctly in the lower spring pocket???????? Using an internal Jay compressor is recommended by most non STRUT INSTILLATION. just saying!!
I was just wondering how many times you have to relocate the spring with your method to install it correctly in the lower spring pocket???????? Remember installing it correctly in the pocket is critical for correct height. The spring must cover the witness hole in the lower A frame and sit flush with the end of the loop recess. This is very important and must be dead on. Using an internal J compressor is recommended by most non STRUT INSTILLATION. just saying!!
Your compressor tool would be better with a second bit of material for thickness on one side to compensate for the spring winding. It would help keep the spring straight during compression and a straight compressed spring is safer than one that's arcing. Second, Tom is 100% on the torrington bearing under the draw nut. It'll make the job go easier and will limit wear on the tool (and you, too).
Foe you need the arc to compensate for the arc when you drop the lower a frame. That is why you use one J bolt compressor inside the spring to arc it. Then install it line up the end properly with the witness marks on the lower spring pocket and jack the spring in to the car. I have been doing this for many many years and i have never had an issue. Next time i do a set of springs i will take a video of how i do it. I am installing the suspension in my car shortly and will post the way i do it. I have seen to many springs get loose and can hurt you REAL BAD. I also have a branic system for struts. Springs can ruin your day quite easily. By the way there is no reason to use anything when removing springs. I lower the control arm and pry the spring out. naturally i chain it up!! But it is not necessary. And normally we use lowering springs that make it easier to install them when you arc them with an inside spring compressor better called a J Bolt compressor. By the way they do not make those spring compressors any more so i made a set years ago. Thanks Foe
We have an old bar at our shop just for doing them the way you describe. Takes practice. And sometimes an assistant. I can't see anybody with lesser resources than us doing it this way, it's not exactly the "everyman" method.
Foe grab the Snap On big bar open the lower control arm insert the bar in the lower coil and yank the spring out simple quick and i have been doing it that way for years.
my tools intended use is for ball joint replacemnt and control arm replacement.
however by simply backing off the nut on the bottom, the spring is kept straight so the spring can be removed as well.
-add jack stand under your car frame
-remove wheel
-back off ball joint nut flush to top of ball joint stud, hit spindal with hammer to dislodge the ball joint stud using spring presure
-loosen strut nuts and tie rod end nut, you can disconnect tie rod end at this point
-place jack under control arm just enough to touch it for safety
-place 1/2'' flat bar in the lowest part of the spring coil, encourage it with a hammer in place
-jack up the control arm and add all the spring compressor hardware, spin / tighten lower nut to desired spring comression amount
-remove control arm jack and spring stays put
-remove lower strut & ball joint hardware
~~~~~now spring is trapped and lower CA is free
if you want to remove the spring, then just back off the lower nut and it will slowly in a contolled and straight manner come out.
i see what you mean about "wanting a slight arch in the spring,, i did have / see this problem when i took out springs but i quickly improvised. I simply used a wratchet strap to pull the spring in and in poistion over the lower lock down clamp area and it worked out perfect.
its my belief the spring "could use an arch in assembly but not really nessessary.
Next time i do springs i am going to post a video. Jay i never remove an A frame to change ball joints. No need to do that. buit your tool is very interisting and inventive. BUT!!! BE CAREFUL . thanks my friend!!
i think two things here....
1 your misunderstanding me...
2 we are hijacking the thread
that tool you asked about,, it was used when i needed do LCA work,, and also for the first time document the ID/OD of the bushings to share with the board.
i didnt say it was needed to do ball joints.
i still dont understand the "be careful part",, the spring is trapped,, 100% of the tools your recommending do not do this nor does the spring tool in the earlier video.