Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Stealth on February 02, 2011, 03:12:39 PM
Post by: Stealth on February 02, 2011, 03:12:39 PM
Car is '88 Sport 5.0 w/AOD. I want to fabricate a new 2" dual exhaust from the iron manifolds back to the existing Flowmasters. The transmission shift link and shifter cable are right smack dam in the middle of where the the LH pipe needs to go under the double hump crossmember. Before I make a crooked pipe to fit, what sort of brackets and shift lever do cars with factory duals & AOD use? I would like to see photos of MkVII, Mustang, Cougars, any Fox 5.0. or any advice on what brackets I need to look for in the junk yard.
"We're not the ones you want, we can go on." Obi Wan Kenobi
"They can't see us, we're invisible." Chief Dan George to Dustin Hoffman
"We're not the ones you want, we can go on." Obi Wan Kenobi
"They can't see us, we're invisible." Chief Dan George to Dustin Hoffman
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 87tbird5.0 on February 02, 2011, 06:12:30 PM
Post by: 87tbird5.0 on February 02, 2011, 06:12:30 PM
if you can just let it hang lower. mine fit perfect but i have shorty headers and a bbk h pipe
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: vinnietbird on February 03, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
Post by: vinnietbird on February 03, 2011, 12:35:41 AM
I also have a Sport. Here's what I did......
BBK unequal length shorty headers
Pype's Off Road X-Pipe (I barely flattened the inner side....about 3 inches long and 1/4 inch deep......to clear the shifter linkage
-And worked the rest out using bent pipe from the ler shop for mid pipes,muflers,and Mustang tail pipes. Easy and it flows great.
BBK unequal length shorty headers
Pype's Off Road X-Pipe (I barely flattened the inner side....about 3 inches long and 1/4 inch deep......to clear the shifter linkage
-And worked the rest out using bent pipe from the ler shop for mid pipes,muflers,and Mustang tail pipes. Easy and it flows great.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 04:26:13 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 04:26:13 PM
Yank the AOD, install a T-5, and swap out to a TC steering column. No more shifter linkage issue...the expensive way. All kidding aside there are a couple of threads on here about this very issue of which the search function can help you find. Also, nix the 2" pipe and run a minimum of 2.5" as the 5.0 will respond better to it. You can scour the Mustang sites and pick up a set of used shorties for cheap but make sure the header is one piece (where all the tubes weld in at the head) and at least 3/8". This will keep it from warping and causing all kinds of gasket leaks.
Here is one of the threads that goes into some good detail:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?28938
Darren
Here is one of the threads that goes into some good detail:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?28938
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 04, 2011, 07:49:07 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 04, 2011, 07:49:07 PM
Not long ago, I noticed how far the shifter linkage sticks out into the area where my h-pipe is going to run past my floor-shifted AOD. You'd think Ford could have done better than that. This HAS to be a problem on Stangs and Mark VII's. They come from the factory with duals & AOD's. Oh well.
By the way Darren. I LOVE your avatar! I guess it's true that everything's BIGGER in Texas!!!
By the way Darren. I LOVE your avatar! I guess it's true that everything's BIGGER in Texas!!!
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 08:26:34 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 08:26:34 PM
All of the 85-93 Mustangs were center console shifted thus cable shifted which means no shifter linkage to get in the way. Not sure about the Mark VII's so maybe someone can chime in there. I would think that since the Mustangs and Mark VII's were factory duals on the 5.0 cars Ford would have designed them to accomidate the dual exhaust. As usual there is just a little more hot rodding involved when it comes to our cars.
I believe the pic in the avatar was taken in Norman, OK at a football game as the surroundings look like one of the exits by the south endzone. I was born and raised in the Sooner state so being an OU fan south of the Red River is especially fun.
Darren
I believe the pic in the avatar was taken in Norman, OK at a football game as the surroundings look like one of the exits by the south endzone. I was born and raised in the Sooner state so being an OU fan south of the Red River is especially fun.
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 10:15:02 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 10:15:02 PM
I believe there are H-Pipes for auto equipped Stangs (which fit our cars if we have headers). As I stated,a mild flattened area (not crushed) for about two inches can fix the clearance problem with no effect on performance.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 10:15:31 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 10:15:31 PM
Hey Aerocoupe...Norman is my original home town.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 10:29:23 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 10:29:23 PM
Boomer Sooner!!! I see you live in the fine town of Ardmore. I am originally from Lawton...don't hold it against me.
Darren
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 11:20:53 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on February 04, 2011, 11:20:53 PM
I used to do all of my grocery shopping in Lawton at the base because the Army Commissary was better than the A.F. store where I was stationed in Altus. Lawton was where we did all of our shopping.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 11:33:27 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 04, 2011, 11:33:27 PM
Oh man, Altus...I lived there for three years (2000-2003) when I was a controls engineer at American Gypsum (wall board plant) in Duke, OK. Yeah, let the good times roll in Altus.
Sorry for getting way off topic here.
Darren
Sorry for getting way off topic here.
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 05, 2011, 01:15:36 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 05, 2011, 01:15:36 PM
If those Mustangs were center console shifted, has anyone here installed the shifter linkage from a Stang onto their Bird? It's the same chassis and same tranny, so it should be an easy swap.
Quote from: Aerocoupe;351830
All of the 85-93 Mustangs were center console shifted thus cable shifted which means no shifter linkage to get in the way. Not sure about the Mark VII's so maybe someone can chime in there. I would think that since the Mustangs and Mark VII's were factory duals on the 5.0 cars Ford would have designed them to accomidate the dual exhaust. As usual there is just a little more hot rodding involved when it comes to our cars.
I believe the pic in the avatar was taken in Norman, OK at a football game as the surroundings look like one of the exits by the south endzone. I was born and raised in the Sooner state so being an OU fan south of the Red River is especially fun.
Darren
Title: some pictures
Post by: Stealth on February 08, 2011, 04:52:09 PM
Post by: Stealth on February 08, 2011, 04:52:09 PM
Thanks for all the posts, even the ones on topic. I'm a transplanted Okie too (Enid). Sorry this took so long but here are some pics of the situation under my car. I meant to go to the shop and take these pictures Monday, but that was three Mondays ago now. We had a blizzard and the road here still looks like a luge course. Wouldn't be driving the bird in this ice and snow even if it were at home. So these pics show the bracket for the cable being the primary offender. It was apparently designed with no consideration for the double hump crossmember already in place. And the cable would run a more relaxed and natural route if it were raised, too. It looks like the end of the bracket can be chopped off and the existing metal will provide the material for a relocated cable end. If I measure it correctly the lever will still work as is, or the lever could be bent a bit to enhance the extra clearance. But I ain't cutting up my bracket until I have in hand either another one or a different one that fits better. There has got to be one for a Mk or maybe XR7 but I can't find any pictures of one so am headed for the junk yards as soon as the snow melts...June?
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 08, 2011, 10:27:42 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 08, 2011, 10:27:42 PM
I looked over on the Corral for about an hour and there is all kinds of conflicting information but everyone there says this guy is the man when it comes to AOD's.
http://silverfoxtrans.com/
Go to his site and give him a call and I bet he can figure it out.
Darren
http://silverfoxtrans.com/
Go to his site and give him a call and I bet he can figure it out.
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: vinnietbird on February 08, 2011, 10:28:39 PM
Post by: vinnietbird on February 08, 2011, 10:28:39 PM
Looks like a T-5 is gonna have to be installed to ease the installation of the Exhaust.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 08, 2011, 11:29:56 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 08, 2011, 11:29:56 PM
How about looking into swapping in a Stang shifter cable assembly? If it will fit, that would solve your clearance problem right there.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 08, 2011, 11:52:02 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 08, 2011, 11:52:02 PM
Quote from: Stealth;352335
Thanks for all the posts, even the ones on topic. I'm a transplanted Okie too (Enid). Sorry this took so long but here are some pics of the situation under my car. I meant to go to the shop and take these pictures Monday, but that was three Mondays ago now. We had a blizzard and the road here still looks like a luge course. Wouldn't be driving the bird in this ice and snow even if it were at home. So these pics show the bracket for the cable being the primary offender. It was apparently designed with no consideration for the double hump crossmember already in place. And the cable would run a more relaxed and natural route if it were raised, too. It looks like the end of the bracket can be chopped off and the existing metal will provide the material for a relocated cable end. If I measure it correctly the lever will still work as is, or the lever could be bent a bit to enhance the extra clearance. But I ain't cutting up my bracket until I have in hand either another one or a different one that fits better. There has got to be one for a Mk or maybe XR7 but I can't find any pictures of one so am headed for the junk yards as soon as the snow melts...June?
You know what? I just checked my Red-Winged Blackbird (88 TC with 5.0 swap) and saw that it HAS a Mustang-style shifter cable & bracket assembly on it Stealth. If you check out the pic I included, you'll see how everything is kept above the tranny shift arm; thereby keeping everything up and out of the way. The pic will show you everything you need to know.
My Blackbird (87 Sport) unfortunately has the stock, T-Bird shifter cable and linkage. I can see that I'm gonna have to switch it over to the set-up that's already on my Red-Winged Blackbird (i.e. other car).
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 09, 2011, 10:09:30 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on February 09, 2011, 10:09:30 PM
It's been a LONG time, but I think I can remember getting that cable and those brackets off a Mark VII. That would explain why they don't seem to have any clearance issues with their duals.
Title: Pipes and more pipes
Post by: Stealth on February 10, 2011, 04:11:37 PM
Post by: Stealth on February 10, 2011, 04:11:37 PM
Thanks, Blackbird. Your picture shows me that there is indeed a bracket that I can use without fabricating one. I can't see the crossmember in the pic, but the cable looks as if it sits higher. The lever must hug the trans case more than mine because your adjuster nut is facing outward and mine the other way. I have seen a picture on this forum of a MkVII setup and it has lite-off cats and pipes on both sides of the trans., so it would use a bracket like yours. I bet all floor shifts use the same cable. The pic I attach here shows my factory exhaust next to a BBK 2 1/2 O/R H-pipe. It didn't matter which bracket they used with that pipe because it didn't run down the LH side of the trans. I am not ready to go large bore because not doing heads and cam. Headers would gain me nothing but exhaust leaks. I think for now I will just run a 2inch setup and work a bit more power out of the stock motor. It is apparently an HO block (roller chain & lifters, forged pistons) with mild cam and small port heads, so it should be good for an easy 200hp plus with some fuel and spark remapping. But that would cause a cat meltdown so the exhaust is first. I guess I will keep the fancy H-pipe for when I get my T5 to go behind my aluminum block motor. I'll drive down Sunset Boulevard, my hair blowing in the wind...
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 10, 2011, 10:01:02 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 10, 2011, 10:01:02 PM
I am pretty sure you understand that the engine is nothing more than a big air pump. The more efficient you make it at moving air in and out and the more air you move in and out the more power you make. If the exhaust is restrictive then no matter what you do to the engine and intake system you will see less gain than if you had installed a higher flowing more efficient exhaust. The stock cast iron exhaust manafolds are pretty restrictive and weigh a ton compared to tubular headers. All of the HO Mustangs have factory exhaust headers, not cast iron manafolds. Check out the Mustang boards and you will find a set of shorty headers on the cheap. If it were me I would get a set of unequal length as there is not much of a gain going with the equal length shorties and they are much bulkier. Don't do this twice, do it once and the correct way the first time. It cost less in the long run and you will have an exhaust that your engine can grow into.
You do not have to battle the column shift linkage that usually causes all kinds of head aches with the driver's side header install so this should be a complete no brainer to use the h-pipe and find a good set of shorty headers. Just my 0.02 but I know its your car and you know the direction you want to head.
Darren
You do not have to battle the column shift linkage that usually causes all kinds of head aches with the driver's side header install so this should be a complete no brainer to use the h-pipe and find a good set of shorty headers. Just my 0.02 but I know its your car and you know the direction you want to head.
Darren
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 10, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
Post by: thunderjet302 on February 10, 2011, 10:59:57 PM
You know what's odd? If you have a column shifter you can't run long tubes but you can get shorties and a H-pipe to fit fine. At least shorty headers and a 2.5" H-pipe fit like a glove on my T-bird.
Title: How weird can it get?
Post by: Stealth on February 24, 2011, 09:17:58 AM
Post by: Stealth on February 24, 2011, 09:17:58 AM
Finally got to some junk yards the past couple of days. Went to every yard in 2 Arkansas counties and one I think was in Indian territory. It appears that there are three basic setups for floor shifters: rod actuated with flat trans lever turned up (Mustangs), cable with spring-clip retainer and flat lever turned down (MkVII), and cable with 2-bolt retainer and offset lever turned down (T-Bird). Within that last set there may be different shaped cable brackets at the trans end. The junk yard is pulling the bracket from a '88 TC for me and while it has the correct 2-bolt cable, I think it is a shorter bracket (couldn't see too well laying in the mud using an old rear-view mirror to peek). Expect to be able to use that bracket either as-is or cut and welded, but am getting the cable too in case it is different length. Lever will stay as-is unless I want to drop pan and pull valve body to swap it, but that wouldn't gain much room. Bracket is the main thing in the way.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 24, 2011, 10:20:17 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on February 24, 2011, 10:20:17 PM
I had Headman long tubes (1-1/2" primaries) on the '83 with column shift with an AOD behind that beasty stock 5.0. I do remember having to jack with the linkage but it was like that for many a moon until the T-5 went in the car in the early 90's.
Sounds like you are on your way to getting the cable issue solved on yours for the true duals. Post up the before and after pics on what you do to the linkage and maybe a parts list too??
Darren
Sounds like you are on your way to getting the cable issue solved on yours for the true duals. Post up the before and after pics on what you do to the linkage and maybe a parts list too??
Darren
Title: Finally, progress!
Post by: Stealth on March 31, 2011, 09:07:23 PM
Post by: Stealth on March 31, 2011, 09:07:23 PM
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Stealth on March 31, 2011, 09:18:15 PM
Post by: Stealth on March 31, 2011, 09:18:15 PM
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on April 04, 2011, 11:34:58 PM
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on April 04, 2011, 11:34:58 PM
Whoa. If you've only got manifolds on that car, DO NOT run your engine like that. You're gonna warp a valve (or valves) Buddy. If you had long-tubes on your car, you'd be alright, but running an engine with stock manifolds, or shorty's and no exhaust is just asking for trouble.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: The Shredder on April 05, 2011, 09:57:50 AM
Post by: The Shredder on April 05, 2011, 09:57:50 AM
Stealth, thank you for posting these pictures! This is exactly what I will be doing soon. A couple questions for you...
1. Is that your stock shift lever on your transmission? Can you measure the distance from the center of the pivot hole and the shifter cable attaching hole? It should be either 1 7/8" or 2 1/4".
2. What did your linkage look like originally?
3. Are you using the TC cable or your original AOD cable?
4. Are you using an AOD shifter or the TC shifter? I just realized the TC shifter has too many detents in it...
TC (A4LD automatic transmission):
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/jdschrader/TurboCoupe/Shifter2.jpg)
AOD:
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/jdschrader/TurboCoupe/shifter6.jpg)
1. Is that your stock shift lever on your transmission? Can you measure the distance from the center of the pivot hole and the shifter cable attaching hole? It should be either 1 7/8" or 2 1/4".
2. What did your linkage look like originally?
3. Are you using the TC cable or your original AOD cable?
4. Are you using an AOD shifter or the TC shifter? I just realized the TC shifter has too many detents in it...
TC (A4LD automatic transmission):
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/jdschrader/TurboCoupe/Shifter2.jpg)
AOD:
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/jdschrader/TurboCoupe/shifter6.jpg)
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Stealth on April 08, 2011, 12:45:04 PM
Post by: Stealth on April 08, 2011, 12:45:04 PM
I got the car back from the exhaust shop today. Here is a picture of the new pipes. It is not exactly the way I intended, and it cost way too much, so it must be right. Sounds good, a bit snarlier on acceleration, nice and quiet at idle and when driven gently. They used 2 1/4" pipe because apparently there is no such thing as a 2" X-pipe. The angle at which the pipe runs under the crossmember means I could almost have used the stock shifter cable bracket, and I still have it if I want to do that. Anyway, it is good to have the car back on the ground.
Shredder, the pics you want are in posts #12, 24 & 25. I don't have a good picture of my shifter but it is the stock floor shift for the 88 Sport. It is different from the TC as you say. I am using my stock cable with a modified TC bracket.
Shredder, the pics you want are in posts #12, 24 & 25. I don't have a good picture of my shifter but it is the stock floor shift for the 88 Sport. It is different from the TC as you say. I am using my stock cable with a modified TC bracket.
Title: Dual Exhaust
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 08, 2011, 01:45:41 PM
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 08, 2011, 01:45:41 PM
I have never seen an X-pipe that far back...wonder if there is an advantage? Exhaust looks good though!
Darren
Darren
Title: Loose Ends
Post by: Stealth on April 09, 2011, 09:12:56 AM
Post by: Stealth on April 09, 2011, 09:12:56 AM
I guess this should go under "parts for sale", but does anyone care to make an offer for the set of 2 1/2" BBK #1507 off-road H-pipes that I won't be needing? New in box! I paid about $190 including shipping. If I can get $100 I will pay shipping to you. See photo in earlier post in this string.