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Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 06:34:45 PM

Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 06:34:45 PM
I've got an 87 Thunderbird engine wiring harness, and a 92 mustang computer I'm trying to use. I'm reading a 5.0 tbird schematic and a 92 mustang schematic, they aren't exactly the same

Had a couple people say I could just simply plug the mustang computer into 87 tbird wiring harness and off I go, but it doesn't seem this is the case...

Can anyone confirm that this DOES or DOES NOT work simply by plug & play means? As it looks I'll have to re-pin to different locations, but I'd rather just get a 5.0 Tbird computer...

But will that be a problem? Because aren't all 5.0 tbirds automatic, I'm using a standard transmission. And to add to that, my motor is HO, will that interfere with the computers in tbirds that had SO engines?

Thanks!

Jeff
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 07:49:25 PM
(http://images2.memegenerator.net/jackie-chan/ImageMacro/2908862/MY-MIND-IS-FULL-OF-shag.jpg)
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 22, 2011, 07:57:24 PM
The Tbird computer will not work right with the HO engine , the mustang computer is a plug and play for an HO conversion  ,,,is the mustang computer from a manual transmission car ?
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: Haystack on January 22, 2011, 08:21:17 PM
you need to check your o2's. They are diferent between S.O. and H.O. engines.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 22, 2011, 08:40:13 PM
Quote from: Haystack;350549
you need to check your o2's. They are diferent between S.O. and H.O. engines.

Really ? What is the difference ? I reused mine with my HO conversion and I don't want to mess anything up .
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: Bruce M on January 22, 2011, 08:40:21 PM
A 92 mustang ECM is mass air too.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 08:48:52 PM
I have a harness with a mass air conversion because I have the mass air setup I'll be using.. The computer is from a manual transmission car as well.

It's literally plug and play? I almost don't believe this because the wiring diagrams, but you're sure?

The o2, I only have the one from the turbocoupe. Can that be used?? Or no dice
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: jpc647 on January 22, 2011, 08:55:23 PM
A mustang 5.0 computer will plug into a thunderbird engine harness. Turbo coupe one proabably not, usually all the 2.3lt stuff is different.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 08:56:04 PM
I guess it works on PFM
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 22, 2011, 08:57:42 PM
A manual computer will work just fine in either an automatic or manual car , but not the other way around , thats why I asked 

I did an HO conversion on my 88 and it was plug and play.......... I promise

 The V8 cars used 2 O2 sensors one on each side , I dont know if the 4cyl one that you have is the same and you can reuse it and another one or if you need 2 new ones

* It was brought to my attention that my first sentence in this post is not 100% correct ... see subsequent posts for more info *

 I apologize for my mistake  however I stand behind the rest of the post :)
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on January 22, 2011, 09:04:04 PM
Fair enough, thanks for the help!

Really does work on PFM then I guess! PURE shagIN MAGIC!
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 22, 2011, 09:07:19 PM
Could be sir , could be
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: Haystack on January 22, 2011, 10:29:06 PM
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/advanced/ho_conversion.html

Read through here if you have any questions, come back and we will help you out.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on January 22, 2011, 11:10:21 PM
Not to be a jerk about it Hypo, but with regards to ECM's, it's the other way around.  You can use an ECM from an auto tranny car in a manual tranny car, but you can't use an ECM out of a manual tranny car in an auto tranny car.  The ECM for auto tranny cars is programmed to compensate for the convertor-induced drag placed on the engine when the engine is around idle speed.  The ECM helps keep the engine from stalling.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 22, 2011, 11:33:18 PM
Quote from: 88 Blackbird 5.0;350566
Not to be a jerk about it Hypo, but with regards to ECM's, it's the other way around.  You can use an ECM from an auto tranny car in a manual tranny car, but you can't use an ECM out of a manual tranny car in an auto tranny car.  The ECM for auto tranny cars is programmed to compensate for the convertor-induced drag placed on the engine when the engine is around idle speed.  The ECM helps keep the engine from stalling.

If I am incorrect I expect to be corrected ,,,here is part of where I got my info from on Erics site in the link Haystack posted.

"It is perfectly acceptable to use a manual transmission computer in an automatic car (but you cannot do the reverse). The timing curve and sensor adjustments are a little more responsive with a manual computer, giving you better throttle response and slightly improved 0-60 times."

 I will post a few other things that led me to my conclusion shortly .. again I may be wrong , it certainly would not be the first time
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 23, 2011, 12:22:51 AM
I'm having trouble finding the info I am searching for ,
But I know I have read here on this site that an auto trans computer cant be used in a manual trans car , I forget why not but there was a reason posted .

I'll continue to search .... again I may be wrong
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on January 23, 2011, 12:25:16 AM
He had it backwards.  The timing curve and fuel mapping in auto ECM's are more aggressive than in manual ECM's.  In fact some guys with manual tranny cars mistakenly swap in auto ECM's, thinking they'll get better performance out of them.  The difference in the programming tables is so small that you won't ever notice a difference in performance.
If you are gonna use an auto ECM in your manual tranny car, you're probably gonna have to repin your O2 harness.  Be warned.  If you don't verify that your pins are correct, you could fry your ECM.  The pin placement is different in auto tranny cars and manual tranny cars, with regards to the O2's.
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 23, 2011, 12:30:12 AM
Quote from: 88 Blackbird 5.0;350575
I'm surprised he said that, because the timing curve and fuel mapping in auto ECM's are more aggressive than in manual ECM's.  In fact some guys with manual tranny cars mistakenly swap in auto ECM's, thinking they'll get better performance out of them.  The difference in the programming tables is so small that you won't ever notice a difference in performance.
If you are gonna use an auto ECM in your manual tranny car, you're probably gonna have to repin your O2 harness.  Be warned.  If you don't verify that your pins are correct, you could fry your ECM.

 The O2 harness info seems familiar
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on January 23, 2011, 12:49:20 AM
Here are some threads that cover this topic guys. 

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/5-0l-tech/186779-switch-car-auto-do-i-need-new-computer.html
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=606633&highlight=auto+manual+computer
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1257444&highlight=auto+computer
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=929887&highlight=auto+computer
http://forums.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=722092&highlight=auto+computer
http://www.buckeyestangs.com/vb/showthread.php?29144-A9L-vs-A9P-computer&highlight=auto+speed+computer
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 23, 2011, 02:08:07 AM
OK
 Vic , I spent a few hours reading and researching  this and the conclusion I reached is we were both wrong in stating absolutes :)
 It seems that there are programming differences that may or may not cause drive-ability issues 
The 02 sensor harness issue must be addressed if running an auto computer in manual car

 My car has a manual trans computer with an auto trans and I personally have no issues ,my car runs great  .
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 88 Blackbird 5.0 on January 23, 2011, 03:02:02 PM
Yea.  You know what happens when you state absolutes.  It can have a way of coming back to bite you in the arse.  Lol
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: hypostang on January 23, 2011, 04:59:33 PM
Quote from: 88 Blackbird 5.0;350619
Yea.  You know what happens when you state absolutes.  It can have a way of coming back to bite you in the arse.  Lol

Yes it can ,, in this case I actually learned something  for a change though
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: Beau on January 23, 2011, 08:23:31 PM
To the OP: I have an '89 5.0 from a Stang GT, as well as an EEC (it's a DA1) from a Stang, the engine and the eec are linked with the Thunderbird's stock 5.0 engine harness.

However, I do NOT have mass air (yet) but that is nothing to lose sleep over, as it can be added in very easily.

it's not "pure f*ckin' magic" it's just plug and play....we didn't get the HO motor from the factory, but at least Ford did it right by enabling us to swap it in with a minimum of fuss and cuss. lol
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 1BDBIRD on January 30, 2011, 02:01:32 PM
I have a da1 computer if needed,88ho5spd,or i have a 86gt5spd,never gonna need them!!!
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: 23027 on February 06, 2011, 02:04:45 PM
It's alright, I already got a couple harnesses, computer, mass air conversion etc.

Thanks though!
Title: Mustang vs 5.0 Thunderbird computer!?
Post by: mtgmike on February 26, 2011, 02:42:00 PM
Im thoroughly confused.

87 bird, aod, ho & mass air swap.

using a9l that came with a bunch of other parts. No amount of reading the corral links clears it up for me. Our(at least my) harnesses do not have a "jumper" wire on the oxygen sensor connector. 6 in, 6 out, none loop.

I pinned the two mass air wires, tapped the power and ground. Moved the other two mentioned on cool cats. Have not decided about the other wiring(2nd fuel pump lead, and the other one(vss?)).

Do I need to buy a manual o2 harness?

Hell, most of those are 70-80$ Might as well find a a9p if that is necessary???

Do we(tbird guys) need to worry about voltage on pin 46( i think)???