Technical => Electrical Tech => Topic started by: jpc647 on December 28, 2010, 01:04:07 PM
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 28, 2010, 01:04:07 PM
So today was a little slow at work and I started thinking. My starter get heat soaked, after driving on 50 degree plus day, is i drive a couple of miles to the store, shut the car off and try to start it a little while later, it doesn't have the umphf to crank the engine over. But if i put a booster pack on, it starts right up/
Now I've replaced the battery and the battery is positively good, it's been voltage checked and everything.
I did a good search and came up with this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2593146
Has anyone done this to a foxtbird, cougar, or mustang? It got me thinking, i have a stock configuration on my car, no engine mods, no exhaust upgrades, nothing. I know about the high torque mini starters, but i'm too cheap to spend $150 ish on a starter that may or may not solve the problem. Not that the problem is too too bad, after an hour, the car is guaranteed to start, but just the same. Has anyone done a mod similar to the thread above?
I also found: http://www.themustangshop.ca/product/300189/300693/. Has anyone else here used a similar one? What brand did you use, how much was it, and did it work?
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: Bob on December 28, 2010, 02:20:14 PM
I had that problem in the summer in the past on hot days and the mini-starter fixed it. I believe you can do a mini for a lot less than $150.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: vinnietbird on December 28, 2010, 04:47:07 PM
Hit the salvage yards and look around. I happened to find a new mini starter on an Explorer with a 5.0 a couple of years ago and grabbed it,the intake and GT40 heads for $75.00. I kept the starter and sold the rest.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 28, 2010, 04:48:39 PM
Bob, do you have any engine upgrades, exhaust modifications, etc? I may be able to do it for less than $150, I called one parts store and asked about them, it was like $139.99 or $ 134.99 with a core. Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. I can't understand it. If I had headers I could see it, chevy guys have that problem all the time, I just can't see how a stock setup would. Ford didn't put insulators on these cars, so it couldn't have been a big problem back in the day, or they would have. I've checked the grounds time and time again. I even connected a negative booster cable to the negative terminal on the battery and then to the block(to ground it), to check and see if the grounding wires weren't functioning, and the starter still did nothing.
Vinnie: I can't hit the yards, everything is under a foot of snow, lol.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: vinnietbird on December 28, 2010, 05:06:11 PM
How old is your starter?
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: hypostang on December 28, 2010, 05:09:45 PM
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 28, 2010, 08:29:27 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;347416
How old is your starter?
This one is less than a year old. I have gone through at least 3 of them in the 5 ish years I've had the car. I bought a cheap carquest one first, lasted about 6 months and it was dead. The second one was the medium grade one which was dead out of the box. They replaced it, put the next one in it last just over a week it ped out in the work parking lot. So they replaced it with whatever they had in stock, which was a premium one with a year warranty. It ped out 12 months and 2 days(it had a 12 month warranty), I just looked up the receipt. Now this one was put in and it gets heat soaked. Otherwise its works fine, I'm just worried one day it'll just out and leave me stranded. I'm thinking maybe this one should be rebuilt, I might call and see about a warranty on them.
Yes it is cheaper, however what about a warranty? This thing could be made in china and be worse than whats in the car. I dunno. Buying stuff like that on ebay scares me.
*Edit*: It says they are guaranteed for a year, I dunno. It's something to think about...
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: Haystack on December 29, 2010, 01:02:08 AM
Your starter is junk. I have done the auto store "upgrades" several times, and none of them lasted me for any real point in time. When we had several fords all running the same starter, we bought a lifetime warrenty. In about 6 months we replaced 10 starters and we asked to never come back. Last one I found laying in the gravel at the junkyard for $5. It was full of water and covered in grease. I set it on the shelf thinking I would try to rebuild it myself and it ended up in the back of my car. After my starter went out, I remembered I still had it in the trunk, and swapped it out in the 7-11 parking lot. lasted about 30k so far.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: vinnietbird on December 29, 2010, 06:56:14 AM
My friend bought the Ebay starter(about $50.00) for his 5.0 equipped '67 Stang over a year ago and it's still doing it's job as advertised. I was thinking about getting one when the time comes for a new one.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 29, 2010, 10:45:01 AM
So would you guys recommend buying one if the high torque ones, or having the one in the car rebuilt by a very reputable local place?
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: Bob on December 29, 2010, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: jpc647;347410
Bob, do you have any engine upgrades, exhaust modifications, etc? I may be able to do it for less than $150, I called one parts store and asked about them, it was like $139.99 or $ 134.99 with a core. Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. I can't understand it. If I had headers I could see it, chevy guys have that problem all the time, I just can't see how a stock setup would. Ford didn't put insulators on these cars, so it couldn't have been a big problem back in the day, or they would have. I've checked the grounds time and time again. I even connected a negative booster cable to the negative terminal on the battery and then to the block(to ground it), to check and see if the grounding wires weren't functioning, and the starter still did nothing.
Vinnie: I can't hit the yards, everything is under a foot of snow, lol.
Yeah it was a 306 with eddy heads/tfs1 cam/cobra intake, shorty headers and offroad hpipe. PAperformance has the mini-starters for $135 thats where I got mine good quality and lifetime "new" replacement.
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 29, 2010, 06:53:48 PM
auto part stores starters are all , they're build very VERY poorly with trashy brushes and what-not
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 29, 2010, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: turbo_88_XR7;347576
auto part stores starters are all , they're build very VERY poorly with trashy brushes and what-not
Should I expect this one on ebay to be any better?
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: hypostang on December 29, 2010, 10:25:51 PM
Quote from: jpc647;347621
Should I expect this one on ebay to be any better?
The ebay one is new not rebuilt , but its like anything 50/50 odds
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on December 30, 2010, 12:08:50 PM
That ebay one is a correct replacement for mine, for an 87 Thunderbird 5.0, right? I only asked because I cross referenced the part number it list as an upgrade for and it states 82-90mustang, blah blah blah, but does the HO had anything different? Will this be "too powerful" for a stock thunderbird 5.0 motor?
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 30, 2010, 01:16:39 PM
that only starters i trust are aftermarket high-torques.. all these OEM replacements fell way off OEM standards. the only OEM i would trust at this point would come from a dealerships parts department, if ford even makes them for the 'old' 5.0 anymore
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: hypostang on December 30, 2010, 01:35:18 PM
Quote from: jpc647;347694
That ebay one is a correct replacement for mine, for an 87 Thunderbird 5.0, right? I only asked because I cross referenced the part number it list as an upgrade for and it states 82-90mustang, blah blah blah, but does the HO had anything different? Will this be "too powerful" for a stock thunderbird 5.0 motor?
No difference HO or SO or Bird or Stang .... IOW it will work just fine in your car :)
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 30, 2010, 01:47:14 PM
oops.. missed that post LOL.. even an F150 starter will work.. ask me how i know LOL
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: Beau on January 02, 2011, 12:50:22 AM
the high torque starters are the way to go...also a plus is that they're a little smaller, and weigh a good bit less than the big ones.
High Torque Mini Starters *check first, some years may be standard "big" starters, since these came standard on the 92/93 5.0L I'd guess they were harder to find on other cars before those years and easier to find after* (1992-96) Ford Bronco 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L w/ AT (1992-02) Ford E Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L (1992-98) Ford F Series 4.2L, 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L (1990-91) Ford LTD Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0L (1994-04) Ford Mustang 3.8L (1992-95) Ford Mustang 5.0L (1990) Ford Thunderbird 3.8L/Supercharged (1991-97) Ford Thunderbird 3.8L, (1991-93) 5.0L (1990-92) Lincoln Mark VII 5.0L (1990) Lincoln Town Car 5.0L
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jrad235 on January 02, 2011, 07:09:55 PM
Just installed a Hi Torque out of a Windstar?(V6) today! I bought it used when I got the motor and my big old starter finally decided it was going to be affected by heat soak. Kept acting like the timing was being changed when hot( slow crank, fast crank, lean pop, etc). Took me about an hour I think. Pulled the PS wheel off, and I had to ream the original battery cable ring terminal out a bit(Larger diameter post on the new style). Plus make a little jumper wire for the solenoid.
Downside to not buying a new starter? Getting one with 130k on it with a sticky bendix! Hopefully it will unstick itself with a little use. It's been sitting for at least two years!
Probably should have lubed it a little bit before install. :(
Title: "Heat Soaked Starter" Fixes
Post by: jpc647 on January 03, 2011, 08:23:28 AM
Yeah, I've changed the starter a few times, I know about the passenger side wheel and using the hole.. Thanks. I just don't want to have to keep doing it, :/