Well I'm new to Thunderbirds and this forum. I got my 1985 Bird 5.0 auto after my car was totaled. My fiance's dad had bought the bird for his other daughter who refused it and when we asked to borrow it till we got a settlement he told us no, but we could buy it. I was grinning ear to ear. I've loved this car since I first saw her. She's not the best looking, and needs some work but she's my Bird.
The issues I'm having are as follows:
Starting cold I have to press the gas slightly and hold it till she's completely warmed up. I think I narrowed that down to the tv cable needing to be adjusted and will try that in the morning.
She idles rough, almost like she has aftermarket camshafts. I've checked for vacuum leaks, with no luck. Haven't tried removing plug wires after getting shocked the first two I tried. I found a brand new fuel filter in the trunk was thinking of putting it in and see if it works.
Lastly the rear suspension seams to bottom out over moderate bumps, and at 70mph the rear end wiggles. I regret that I'm not too familiar with the suspension on older cars so I have no idea what I'm looking for other than loose/worn bushings/bolts.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, this is our only car until tax time and if she dies we're screwed. I can take pics and videos if that would help.
The TV cable affects the shifting of the AOD only, has no bearing whatsoever on the engine, let alone cold starts. Check for codes first. Have you done a tune-up? New plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, and oil/filter change, as well as new air filter? Also, did I mention codes? It could be an IAC, for example. Just guessing and throwing parts is a little silly. Any decent parts store will have a code reader, usually let you use it in the parking lot for free.
5.0 engines like ours only have one cam ;)
Vacuum leaks can be a right PITA to track down. Only remove plug wires if you have a non-conductive tool...the fact you got bit twice says something about your learning capability :rollin:
The trunk-found fuel pump needs to go in the trash. Buy a known clean good one..hell, the one in the trunk might not even be the right one, then you're stranded with a car that can't run.
Shocks, control arm bushings, and tires. The first 2 are definitely going to cause what you describe, and if the tires are old, or knotted, expect some slop from them as well.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it now: anyone who buys a Fox (much less a 25 year old car of any flavor) for a dependable daily driver is either stupid, or broke.
The good thing is, you can look on craigslist and find a lot of decent, usuable parts from Mustang guys who have upgraded...sometimes they'll almost give the parts away.
You'll want shocks, struts, ball joints, tie rod ends, and probably new rear control arm bushings. Unless you know for a fact they've been replaced recently. Also an alignment after the new front end work is required. Don't just guess at it, do it right, or you'll be wasting money on tires, and fuel mileage will suffer.
I've been through this a couple of times, I'm not just talking out my ass :hick:
Good luck, and welcome. :D
EDIT: I see you're looking for an '88 5.0 engine harness...just letting you know you'll still need to do some repinning, as your car's connectors wont match those of the '88 harness....nothing to be scared of, but not truly plug and play, either.
Are 85s EFI or carbed? If you got shocked by the plug wires then you need to replace them, that meens they are arcing which can cause it to run like . As for the fuel filter, is it still in the raper. If so than you can check the part number to see if is the right on. Be carefull, it might be the old you that was already replaced. My rearend made the same noise, check the pinion wait. Mine came lose and caused a noise like you're talking about. It also could be control arm bushings, sway bar, or shocks. It could also be a loss exhaust pipe, Its pretty tight around the rearend and if the exhaust is loss it could be hitting the rear or suspension parts.
Well my father in-law had changed the rotor and cap, and the filter looks good. I'll check for codes and the plugs/wires asap.
Broke would be the one.
As for the suspension the tires are after market....american racing outlaw 2's wearing 235/60r14. Now I notice that those rims are only 7" but the tires are 9....could that be the culprit?
Plugs and wires sound like the ill running culprit.
The tire size shouldnt have anything to do with the suspension issues.
Im assuming you mean the air filter looks good. If you're talking about the fuel filter, please let me know how a visual inspection of the outside tells the inside condition.
If you have a too-wide tire on a narrow wheel, it'll cause squirminess. First hand experience with that on more than vehicle.
Didn't know a tail pipe would cause the rear to squirm though lol
Mine came lose and caused a
noise like you're talking about. It also could be control arm bushings, sway bar, or shocks. It could also be a loss exhaust pipe, Its pretty tight around the rearend and if the exhaust is loss it could be hitting the rear or suspension parts.
I was talking about a loss exhaust making noise. He said the car was making a noise when he hits bumps. As for the tires, they're not too wide for the rim. Tire rack reccomends 6-9" rims for that tire size.http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Radial+T%2FA&partnum=36SR4RADTARWL2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&tab=Specs (http://"http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Radial+T%2FA&partnum=36SR4RADTARWL2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&tab=Specs")
Sorry I did in fact mean air filter, coincidentally there is a new air filter in the trunk as well. The accelerator cable is g me off, the car has the rod for the kickdown not a cable and the connection looks great for the cars age. As for the suspension I'm gonna empty the trunk and test drive it. Seeing as though I have probly 100 lbs of in there that has no place to go. 3 people living in a one bedroom apartment, with a storage unit that can't be used because things end up either missing or water damaged. I need a better job, this car deserves better treatment then I can afford right now.
Does your car have a carb or EFI? The reason I ask is if it has a kick down rod then its carbed. If it is carbed then your cold running issue is the choke. You might want to overhaul your carb. With a carb overhaul and new spark plug wires I'd bet it would run a lot better. If they shock you when you try to touch them then they're bad. Like I said before, the noise in the rear could be a number of things like, loose exhaust hitting the body or suspension, bad control arm bushings, sway bar links, or the pinion weight. My pinion weight came loose and made noise. I have also had noise from my exhaust hanger brakeing allowing my exhaust to hit my suspension and body.
I will go check right now....I thought it was tbi, but I'll go look now
I see fuel injectors so I assume tbi.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/SANY3422.jpg)
It could be but I dont think they put a TBI on the 5.0 in the T-bird/cougars. I think mid way through 85 they switched from carb to EFI. I could be wrong.
I guess I was wrong. Thats the first I've seen a TBI 5.0 bird.
I see it still has a choke tho. It's on the PS of the TB. You should check to see if it's working right. See if it has power to it when its cold.
My father in-law did say it's not the original engine, and also estimated that it puts out 275-300 hp...but that could just be bull pucky.
Figures...when I need a test light I don't have one....I knew I should have picked one up.
I dont know if it will make that kind of power with TBI. That could be whats wrong with it tho. If the motor is not stock the stock TBI system will not like it.
so theoretically it could be a mustang 5.0 ho motor and maybe the tbi system can';t keep up to the engines a/f needs?
That could be it but an HO doesnt make 300 hp. Its more like 225hp. With the cam profile I think it would run fine with TBI. It might be alittle lean but it should at least idol fine, it doent have a choppy cam and pulls good vacuum. It's EZ the figure out if it's an HO. What firing order are you running.
eating dinner I'll take pics after
Does it idol rough after it warmed up? The firing order might be wrong. There is an HO firing order and non-Ho firing order.
Non HO firing order/ 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
HO firing order/ 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
ps
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/SANY3427.jpg)
ds
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/SANY3425.jpg)
I don't know if you can tell from the pics so I made a diagram.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/diagram.jpg)
After pulling codes I would do a full tune up - even replace the parts that "look" new, that way you know they are new and know when they were replaced. Start there and see what happens. Also check all your vacuum lines for cracks and whatnot.
That is definitely 15426378 non HO ...85 5.0 birds were TBI /CFI
Yep, CFI, it is definitely a non-HO motor, as hypostang said. It may be a replacement motor, but probably from another Bird or Cat, or another 5.0 non-HO car.
yea I kinda assumed it wasn't pulling 275-300 hp...but was hoping it was an HO:D
Takes a lot of work (and money) to hit that 300 rwhp mark, even with the SEFI HO
+1
All 5.0 models were either CFI or SEFI, I think they swapped to SEFI in 86. And that 275-300 HP is not true, though we all wish it was. Our cars make more in the 150 HP range. 275-300 is how much torque our cars make though!
My CFI car had a hard time starting cold, and it would stall out occasionally if you didn't keep the pedal down a little. A new MAP sensor fixed that for me. Does the car run fine when its moving? No bucking or choking?
Yes runs fine when moving, but at cold idle I have to have my foot slightly on the gas. I couldn't say what rpm range it idles at doesn't have a tach. Well she does seam to settle at a certain speed sometimes. I say settle because you end up having to give her a little bit before she starts accelerating.
Define "a lot of work (and money)". 300 rwhp is easily achieved for about $5000 or even less on a SEFI 5.0. Now having $5000 laying around to throw at an engine is a bit tough for most people, my self included ;).
$5000 is a lot of money to put into a 20 + YR old car in one lump sum no matter who you are .
If I had the money I could drop 10-20k in my Cougar and its going on 23 years old. A freind of mine has a 68 Firebird, he spent 12 grand on just paint & body. I cant remember the guys name but he was on Hot Rod TV, He does the ghost flames. Anyway he painted the car. He's got around 50 grand under the hood. All aluminum 455 with dual quads, dual pro-chargers, and a pro fogger. The engine made 1200 hp on just the motor and fogger. People that make stupid money can drop some insane cash in a car. I know I could. I'll get some pictures so that you all dont think that I'm full of shiznit. His car in insane.
Vacume heaven there. You need to try and run codes,I'm sure you will get plenty. Lets see what comes up.
That's exactly what I am saying. 5 grand is quite a chunk of change. New(or re-worked) heads, intake, cam, valvetrain components, exhaust, machine work, gaskets, pistons.....as I'm sure you know the list goes on. Most of us accumulate these parts over years and years. If I had 5g's would I throw it at my Mark? Well, hell yes, as long as I was financially comfortable with life's other aspects. But, most of us that own these cars now are young and pretty broke. All I am saying is what is true, HP costs, and when you don't start off with a whole lot, it costs a lot more.
Well the rough idle boiled down to some vacuum lines not being hooked up, the suspension issues except bottoming out were tire related have 205's on now and no more weird movement on the highway. I did check the suspension and other then the front end links needing replacement nothing bad. Now I found another issue....I'll post the pics
this is what I found first.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/SANY3857.jpg)
traced it back to here.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/nytedrgn/SANY3856.jpg)
but I have no idea what it goes to...or if it will even affect the engine at all.
Does anyone know what those are? SEFI cars don't have them.....I think.
My 84 has those. They're next to the MAP sensor...but uhhh...yep.
I'm thinking it might go to the hose that got a screw in it...but not sure...lol. My luck I'd attach it to that and it would be wrong.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless its acting weird or buggs you. If I ever get to the point of putting my other motor in, there will not be any plastic lines after.
Yea I'm thinkin about just sayin screw it and leave it alone. I just figured while I was screwing around in the engine bay I'd snap some pics and see if it's anything important.
The 85 EVTM shows that as the "Throttle Kicker" solenoid.
To verify this; the vacuum decal on the fan shroud will show the color codes for the vacuum lines.
The throttle kicker is how the EEC controls the idle speed.
The CFI doesn't have a choke. But it does have some of the old choke control stuff that is used to control the fast idle cam.
Before starting, tap the gas to "set" the fast idle cam, then keep your foot off the gas while cranking.
Thanks Softtouch. This bird is getting on my nerves lately. I changed the belts to fix a high rpm squeal and now the alternator chirps! I fix that and then the smog pump will seize up...I bet you $10!
I have a similar problem. When the car is cold it'll idle stumble a lot more than it does when warm. I'm beginning to think it's a vacuum leak, I'm just not sure where it could be.
Got some carb cleaner? Thats how I found where my leaks were in the past. This car was easy, sorta, find hoses disconnected then figure out where they go.