Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 08:55:55 PM

Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 08:55:55 PM
Has anyone seen this on summit? I wonder if it bolts up to the t-bird/cougar manifolds or if its a mustang H-pipe that fit mustang headers. If you click on the application it only shows that it only fits 87-88 T-bird. Did the T-birds ever come with an H-pipe?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTO-4179/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTO-4179/")
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 14, 2010, 09:06:22 PM
i believe i'm correct when i say no, they didn't come with them.. don't even think MN-12 cars had h-pipes.. but if summit lists that they're made for the bird specifically, than i would assume they will fit

now what i don't understand is.. why doesn't it list cougar? i know 87-88 cougar drivetrane is identical and so is the underbody.. what gives?
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: vinnietbird on December 14, 2010, 09:12:18 PM
My money says Mustang H.O,and Mark VII H.O. They may say T-Birds and Cougars,but I also say they are wrong. Our cars if we have Stang shorty headers bolted to our 5.0's.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 09:56:52 PM
I was hoping the length would be correct for the t-bird/cougar. I know all you have to do is have mid pipes made. But I was just trying to give the next guy a heads up. I already have true duals, just need a H or X pipe. I think it's a good price for a catted H-pipe.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Thunder Bantam on December 14, 2010, 10:10:01 PM
Awesome this answer's my question i was just thinking about making a h-pipe for my bird lol.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: vinnietbird on December 14, 2010, 10:28:38 PM
With Mustang shorty headers,any Mustang H or X-pipe will bolt on.....but behind that,you have to have the ler shop do a little work.

I'm still saying that it will not bolt to stock Thunderbird/Cougar exhaust manifolds though for those wondering.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 14, 2010, 10:32:08 PM
i bet it'll fit properly.. it's not meant to fit a mustang, so something is definitely different.. but nothing is certain unless you buy it and try for yourself.. do they have a non-catted H-pipe for a fox bird? i'd consider buying 1 if they do.. saves me from having to make 1.. just too lazy to look lol
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 14, 2010, 10:34:21 PM
I'm going with Vinnnie here ,  it wont fit a stock bird/ cougar
The Lincolns it has listed all have the shorty headers not the cast iron manifolds
 it also says it fits 4 cat applications , my bird only had 3
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 10:38:39 PM
Quote from: turbo_88_XR7;345698
i bet it'll fit properly.. it's not meant to fit a mustang, so something is definitely different.. but nothing is certain unless you buy it and try for yourself.. do they have a non-catted H-pipe for a fox bird? i'd consider buying 1 if they do.. saves me from having to make 1.. just too lazy to look lol

 
I'm not sure if they do. I'll check. What doesnt make since is the T-bird H-pipe is 52.5" long and the mustang H-pipe is 54" long. They are both made by catco, and they have differant part #s. The T-bird part DOES NOT cross reference with the mustang or the other way around. Weird!
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 10:42:20 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;345697
With Mustang shorty headers,any Mustang H or X-pipe will bolt on.....but behind that,you have to have the ler shop do a little work.

I'm still saying that it will not bolt to stock Thunderbird/Cougar exhaust manifolds though for those wondering.

 
I might go this route but I'd rather run manifolds and a bolt on H-pipe for a street car. I've had problems with header gaskets in the past, and I dont think that they have that much advantage over manifolds on a street car that might make 250ish HP. Like I said I all ready have duals but I dont have a balance tube. I also dont like taking my car to exhaust shops anymore. I had a freind that owns an exhaust shop but we dont get along anymore and I dont trust anyone else. So it would be nice to find a bolt on part and Im hoping it could benefit the site.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 14, 2010, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: Bruce M;345702
I might go this route but I'd rather run manifolds and a bolt on H-pipe for a street car. I've had problems with header gaskets in the past, and I dont think that they have that much advantage over manifolds on a street car that might make 250ish HP. Like I said I all ready have duals but I dont have a balance tube. I also dont like taking my car to exhaust shops anymore. I had a freind that owns an exhaust shop but we dont get along anymore and I dont trust anyone else. So it would be nice to find a bolt on part and Im hoping it could benefit the site.

 Well it certainly would be helpful , let us know if it works ;)
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 10:57:13 PM
Quote from: hypostang;345699
I'm going with Vinnnie here ,  it wont fit a stock bird/ cougar
The Lincolns it has listed all have the shorty headers not the cast iron manifolds
 it also says it fits 4 cat applications , my bird only had 3

 
Stock T-bird/cougars have a three cat Y-pipe. I think this replaces the Y or factory H on the Lincoln which had four cat H-pipes. If it replaces the Y-pipe on the T-bird/cougar, I think it bolts from the manifolds to the lers and completely replaces the y-pipe.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 14, 2010, 11:02:22 PM
But the Lincolns with 4 cats have mustang style headers, It may well be a custom set up for Tbirds , I would suggest a phone call to them at the very least.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 11:06:31 PM
Quote from: hypostang;345706
But the Lincolns with 4 cats have mustang style headers, It may well be a custom set up for Tbirds  I would suggest a phone call to then at the very least.

 
Well do. I've got my fingers crossed. I'll try to call Catco directly tomorrow.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Beau on December 15, 2010, 03:42:32 AM
The difference is probably for the column shift 5.0 Birds...is it safe to ASSume all 5.0 Cougars were floor shift?

I've got a (stock) Mustang h pipe on mine, fits with no issues whatsoever, but I also have a T5 as well...
FWIW, the extra length in Cat/Birds is behind the front seat....shouldn't be one iota of difference in h pipes between the versions of Fox cars in regards to length...or at least that's my thought...
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 07:40:37 AM
I've never seen or heard of a floor shift cougar. That another reason I'd like to find out if this will work, I've heard that with mustang headers and H-pipe that you might have clearance problems with the shifter linkage.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hwy73 on December 15, 2010, 08:00:05 AM
The s on the Mustang/Lincoln 4-cat H-pipe don't mate properly with the stock passenger-car manifolds that bolt to the 3-cat Y-pipe that came on the T-Bird/Cougar.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 08:05:33 AM
Quote from: hwy73;345740
The s on the Mustang/Lincoln 4-cat H-pipe don't mate properly with the stock passenger-car manifolds that bolt to the 3-cat Y-pipe that came on the T-Bird/Cougar.

 
I know, The whole point behind this thread is to find out if this part is for  the stock manifold. It is listed for 87-88 T-birds, which dont have tube headers. Dont worry Im going to get to the bottom of this.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: 88CougarGT on December 15, 2010, 09:03:03 AM
I have that exact part installed on my car.  Fits good.  I also have stock shorties and a T5 conversion however so your millage may vary.  My car is a full console so no shift linkage whatsoever.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 15, 2010, 09:10:03 AM
ok, so worse case scenario, you need a pair of shorties and a floor shifter.. shorties aren't too hard to come by with all the stang forums and ebay at hand.. lol and B&M sells a $100 shifter called a Z-Gate, problem solved on both counts lol
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: 88CougarGT on December 15, 2010, 09:28:14 AM
Correction, I bought the CT-4166
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CTO-4166/

Sorry about the misinformation, but its $50 cheaper.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 15, 2010, 11:52:12 AM
Quote from: turbo_88_XR7;345748
ok, so worse case scenario, you need a pair of shorties and a floor shifter.. shorties aren't too hard to come by with all the stang forums and ebay at hand.. lol and B&M sells a $100 shifter called a Z-Gate, problem solved on both counts lol

 
I as well as others here have Mustang shorties with a column shifter without issue , there are a few different ways to get around any clearance problems, without switching to a floor shift

 I really want to know if the pipe is a bolt in for the cast manifolds , My guess is it is listed wrong, but I have been known to be incorrect  .
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 12:25:40 PM
Quote from: hypostang;345758
I as well as others here have Mustang shorties with a column shifter without issue , there are a few different ways to get around any clearance problems, without switching to a floor shift

I really want to know if the pipe is a bolt in for the cast manifolds , My guess is it is listed wrong, but I have been known to be incorrect  .

 
I worried that you all are not getting the point behind this thread. What I'm trying to find out is if this will fit the factory cast manifolds. I will contact them and try to find out. I know that we can use mustang exhaust parts. Im hoping that this will bolt to the factory manifolds and exhaust on the T-bird/cougar with out moding. I'm sure that some people would like to know if there is a simple bolt on H-pipe for our cars that does'nt require modifying.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Beau on December 15, 2010, 12:51:16 PM
If they have a pic of the actual H pipe, and not just a stock photo, you'd probably be able to tell by looking, I'd think. I'm with you though, I'd say the answer you seek would be a "no".

BTW, the XR7 Cats were floorshift...not that it has a  thing to do with your topic here lol
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 15, 2010, 02:05:18 PM
well i can tell you right off the bat you're going to have to mod it either way.. birds/cats are 2 into 1 at the y-pipe and back into 2 after the big cat.. meaning the exhaust behind the cat won't simply just line up and bolt up.. it's going to need a little modification at the back of the h-pipe, no matter what
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 15, 2010, 03:23:07 PM
Quote from: Bruce M;345759
I worried that you all are not getting the point behind this thread. What I'm trying to find out is if this will fit the factory cast manifolds. I will contact them and try to find out. I know that we can use mustang exhaust parts. Im hoping that this will bolt to the factory manifolds and exhaust on the T-bird/cougar with out moding. I'm sure that some people would like to know if there is a simple bolt on H-pipe for our cars that does'nt require modifying.

I understand 100% what your point is , I  want to know the answer to the same question you are looking for.  "Will it bolt to stock cast iron manifolds ?"

My post before was not directed to you but rather the post I quoted about having to switch to floor shifter to use an H pipe . sorry for any confusion , and please let us all know what you find out .
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 03:40:18 PM
Quote from: turbo_88_XR7;345765
well i can tell you right off the bat you're going to have to mod it either way.. birds/cats are 2 into 1 at the y-pipe and back into 2 after the big cat.. meaning the exhaust behind the cat won't simply just line up and bolt up.. it's going to need a little modification at the back of the h-pipe, no matter what

 
I see what you're saying. I thought the y unbolted from the lers like the mustang does. That's still a ez enough fix.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 04:16:21 PM
So I just got off of the Catco tech line. They say that the 87-88 T-bird came with the three converter set up and the four converter set up, and that this part # replaces the four cat set up. What??? So basiclly they dont know. I'm guessing it just for the Mark Vll. Im not going to waste my money to see if it fits. I'll just do something custom or use mustang stuff. If someone tries it out please let us know if it works. Sorry guys.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: hypostang on December 15, 2010, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Bruce M;345787
. Sorry guys.
  Don't apologize , you took initiative and got an answer :)
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 15, 2010, 05:33:54 PM
Quote from: Bruce M;345782
I see what you're saying. I thought the y unbolted from the lers like the mustang does. That's still a ez enough fix.

they may with factory exhaust, i don't know for a 100% fact.. both of my foxes could have had replacement exhaust for all i know.. well.. i think my bird did, it was 2-3/4 out the back.. cougar had stock appearing 2-1/2 and all the y-pipe .. the bird was missing the exhaust from the cat forward when i bought it
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: thunderjet302 on December 15, 2010, 05:55:02 PM
Stock 87-88 5.0 replacement exhaust. Every factory 5.0 car had this, even mine when I bought it. My car had a replacement front Y-pipe with converters. It had all 3 because it was a California car.
(http://www.walkerexhaust.com/images/catalog/coupons/10966.gif)
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 15, 2010, 06:07:54 PM
so my cars were correct.. no clamps or anything at the lers like that's on the front
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 06:10:48 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;345802
Stock 87-88 5.0 replacement exhaust. Every factory 5.0 car had this, even mine when I bought it. My car had a replacement front Y-pipe with converters. It had all 3 because it was a California car.
(http://www.walkerexhaust.com/images/catalog/coupons/10966.gif)

 
That is how my car was. I was just hopeing the H-pipe in question would be a direct bolt on replacement for the y-pipes.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Haystack on December 15, 2010, 11:50:35 PM
All of my 5.0 cars have unbolted behind the cat.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 16, 2010, 10:20:48 AM
It states it fits '87-'92 Mark VII but NOTHING is said about the LSC which are HO and use the Mustang type headers... Did the later MK-VII all have HOs??? I know they had SO in the earlier years... 

I'd rather have one that mates to headers, Mustang/LSC headers don't have gasket issues and in 10 years I've never had a gasket leak on my BBK shorties...
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 16, 2010, 10:44:05 AM
I had a 2.3L ranger with a pacesetter and a headman, neather of them sealed too good. I resurfaced the headmen and got it to seal but it was a headache. I've put headers on a couple of my bosses broncos and never had problems. With what I want to do with my car I dont really want headers. I want to bolt some manifolds on and forget about it. I dont want to have to retighten them every couple months. All I plan on doing with my car is a restoration and HO swap with some good heads and a lot of suspension and chassis work. I dont need a ton of power, I want good drivablity. Ive had cars with bad a$$ motors before and they require a lot of mainance. When its time for me to build something bad a$$ it will be a 5.0 Ranger.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 16, 2010, 01:27:34 PM
if you're looking to do an HO swap in the future, why not just toss stock stang headers on the SO with the right h-pipe so you're set up for the swap, when it's time? manifolds and stang shorties won't mount up to the same h-pipe without mods.. i don't think anyone has ever had any issues with stang shorties sealing and staying sealed
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 16, 2010, 01:55:13 PM
I'll most likely keep the set up I have for a while. I'll rebuild the motor with an HO cam and GT40 heads and then focus on the suspension. When the suspension is done I'll worry about interior and body. After that I might start some more engine mods, maybe a T-5 swap. After the T-5 swap I might look at some BBK long tubes, H-pipe and Magnaflow catback. We'll see, one step at a time.
The engine is first, It leaks bad, spark knocks (carbon build up), and alittle piston slap when cold.
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: turbo_88_XR7 on December 16, 2010, 02:10:31 PM
well if you're going to pull the motor and rebuild it, may i suggest HO pistons? they're forged, unlike the SO's.. plus it doesn't hurt to throw new pistons in on a rebuild and they won't cost too much from the parts store(compared to my KB's) lol
Title: 87-88 T-bird H-pipe
Post by: Bruce M on December 16, 2010, 02:27:25 PM
I'm gonna use Speed Pro forged pistons. Its gonna need new pistons since it well have to be bored (piston slap). Think I'm gonna get the Speed Pro engine kit from Summit ($550 for everthing but cam and timing chain). I can do my own machine work except boring and balance. I already did the heads. So machine work will run about $200, I know people. I've got a spare HO short block that might not need bored. So maybe I can rebuild it on the cheap so I can swap them out without much down time.