Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: AlabamaWildman on December 03, 2010, 06:57:28 PM

Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: AlabamaWildman on December 03, 2010, 06:57:28 PM
I've got a question about my oldest son's '96 Cougar. (V8)
 
He tells me his Cougar has 3, yes THREE, Catalytic Converters on it. This sounded very strange to me... but didn't take me by complete surprise... There is one off of each side of the engine and these two, apparently, feed into a single one. He has been told that two of these have stopped-up (one on the passenger side and the final one) and need replaced. He found out that these three will cost about $700 to buy.
 
... in the meantime... can I still use the old 'Shade-Tree' trick of drilling holes into these things, to allow the Pressure to bleed off, until he can get them replaced ?
 
Or, since he lives in a county that does NOT Require exhaust tests to get his Tags renewed, can we just 'Straight-Pipe' them and have them removed altogether ??
 
Any and all suggestions, as usual, will be GREATLY Appreciated !!
 
Thanks!
 
Randy
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: hwy73 on December 03, 2010, 07:28:09 PM
This is the Fox chassis version of what he is talking about. You can see the "pre-cat" on the driver's side of the front-Y leading into the main cat. The picture of the factory H-Pipe from a Mustang shows the FOUR factory cats. I'm sure there is an aftermarket high-flow dual cat deal that would fit the MN-12 platform, or something (straight pipe, shhhh) could be made.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: RunninWild on December 03, 2010, 07:29:19 PM
Unless you plan on moving soon to a place that does require exhaust inespections, I'd take 'em right off. It'll sound and perform better.


On a side note, my fox '88 tbird v6 has 3 cats on it. A friend of mine who has a continental claims he has 5, but I'm not too sure how true that is...
Title: Hoping that ...
Post by: AlabamaWildman on December 03, 2010, 07:38:42 PM
Thanks !
 
I'll pass on the 'removing' info ! !!
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: CoogarXR on December 03, 2010, 07:47:42 PM
Chop 'em off. I don't have any on my 5.0. Take them to the recycler, I think they are worth decent s value.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: vinnietbird on December 03, 2010, 09:30:14 PM
When I had cats on my car,I pulled the exhaust,got a long tire iron with the bladed tip,cut off the curved part,and used it like a long chisel and broke out all of the catylist and hollowed them out. Took about 30 minutes,and no more issues.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Eliminator on December 03, 2010, 10:26:00 PM
Id be careful what you do. Back in 99 I owned my first 87 Cougar and hollowed out the cats, cause NY didnt emission test. I moved to VA where they did. Now they put on a new system with straight pipes from the exhaust manifolds to a bigger cat and it worked awesome, even felt more powerful. Fast forward to now and Im living in Atlanta GA where they test till 1985 and you have to have cats. Youre also not allowed to alter the system, OEM only! Id check your local laws and shop around. Ive had 2 or 3 MN12s ranging from 3-4 cats (pre-cats), its kinda a Ford staple. One of my Town Cars had 4 plus resonators. If you can get away with it try a s yard. Most places wont let you buy exhaust though (cats)
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 04, 2010, 12:31:39 PM
yeah my 96 has 2 cats up front (1 after each manifold) then the resonator, then another cat after that.

If you go to supercoupeperformance.com you can order high flow cats to replace them, they will add performance, but will also keep your exhaust a little quieter and less aweful smelling than with no cats at all. and the ones on there are decently priced too. Like 80 bucks a piece, which is WAY less than 800 bucks. thats a rip off man.

You can also order a complete catback kit from them too.

Or, you can just cut em off like everyone said, but then of course your exhaust will be LOUD and SMELLY.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Haystack on December 04, 2010, 02:42:42 PM
I seriously doubt that anything is being done by them, except hurting emissions at this point. I do not believe that a catalytic converter does anything. I hollowed out my cats on my old 86, and got better. The next year I put all three new ones on, and ended up getting worse then before I put them on. The smog pump worked on it, and so did all the emissions.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 04, 2010, 07:09:24 PM
did you put on stock sized cats? or bigger ones
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Haystack on December 04, 2010, 07:40:37 PM
I threw on what master ler said would replace it.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Haystack on December 04, 2010, 07:43:30 PM
the car also had 297k on it.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 04, 2010, 08:14:18 PM
Quote from: Haystack;344418
I threw on what master ler said would replace it.

lol ...done that I have:shakehead:
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Haystack on December 04, 2010, 08:23:51 PM
It was a last ditch effort to try to make the car pass. I was about double the max before I hollowed the cats, barely passed after. the next year I was about 1/2 over and the car would barely run. I probably 2 grand trying to make it pass. Most money I ever put into the car.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: jcassity on December 04, 2010, 11:02:40 PM
ok,,,
I think there is a terminology problem either with me or you all.

The resonators I thought were the small items directly downstream of the headers.
The catalytic is the larger item further down stream.

Now having said this,, no one that i can recall has ever confirm the the question I have asked (Over a dozen times i know) ...
"Does the resonator have a honeycomb restriction on the inside just like the catalytic?

If not,, then the gutting of the cats is as easy as vinnie says.


Im just not sure what the big deal is here because I have never seen anything up inside the "precats" or "resonators" or whatever you all call them.  if theres nothing in there then it stands to reason why they are called simply a resonator.


To the poster.. gut the cat (s) , the larger one only and that should get him running fine.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: jpc647 on December 05, 2010, 12:35:58 AM
On my 1988, it originally had 3, one on each bank and then one when the two pieces came together. When the replacement was put on, there was only one replacement. Whether it is internally different, I dunno, but it only has one, and it passed emissions.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 05, 2010, 01:25:42 AM
Quote from: jcassity;344480
ok,,,
I think there is a terminology problem either with me or you all.

The resonators I thought were the small items directly downstream of the headers.
The catalytic is the larger item further down stream.

well:
Quote from: supercoupeperformance.com
SCP High Flow 2 ΒΌ" Down Tubes For Factory Cast Iron Manifolds - WITH high flow catalytic converters

A pair of high flow down tubes. Includes Oxygen Sensor fitting for the passenger side. The drivers side O2 fitting is in the cast iron exhaust manifold. Made from the heaviest gage aluminized tubing that is commercially available. The high flow cats are welded in place to the tubing.

Our 2 1/4" down tubes with catalytic converters go from the factory manifolds to the transmission cross member. They will have a flared end and  like the factory exhaust to hook up to the stock cast iron manifolds. The stock exhaust can be cut at the appropriate point and these can be mated to it or you can continue with the SCP cat-back exhaust system or some other exhaust.

(http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/images/thumbBuilder.ashx?maxSize=350&imgPath=images/items/142/384281426250.jpg)
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Haystack on December 05, 2010, 02:06:20 AM
To be honest, I have never looked to see if there is honeycomb in the smaller ones. I just banged out the bigger one. I'm now wondering if they did just screw me over when I had that work done. I never even looked at it. I was young and stupid at the time. I am still young and stupid, but I learn from my mistakes.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: jcassity on December 05, 2010, 03:00:04 AM
Quote from: sarjxxx;344502
well:

 
(http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/images/thumbBuilder.ashx?maxSize=350&imgPath=images/items/142/384281426250.jpg)

 
You have posted up an example of an exhust replacement part the ELIMINATES the precats or resonator.

To let you all know,, i have ran a wire down two sets of these resonators and there are no obstructions.  I am pretty sure they are a sound deadening  baffel and nothing more.  I am hopefully correct.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Beau on December 05, 2010, 12:48:19 PM
The first units are indeed resonators, they're baffles, no honeycomb or platinum. I have a gutted cat H pipe, still has resonators, not terribly loud. Before I installed it, I looked down into the resonators to see just wtf they really were lol
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 05, 2010, 08:14:39 PM
Quote from: jcassity;344508
You have posted up an example of an exhust replacement part the ELIMINATES the precats or resonator.

To let you all know,, i have ran a wire down two sets of these resonators and there are no obstructions.  I am pretty sure they are a sound deadening  baffel and nothing more.  I am hopefully correct.

sorry let me post the rest of it:

Quote
A pair of high flow down tubes. Includes Oxygen Sensor fitting for the passenger side. The drivers side O2 fitting is in the cast iron exhaust manifold. Made from the heaviest gage aluminized tubing that is commercially available. The high flow cats are welded in place to the tubing.

Our 2 1/4" down tubes with catalytic converters go from the factory manifolds to the transmission cross member. They will have a flared end and  like the factory exhaust to hook up to the stock cast iron manifolds. The stock exhaust can be cut at the appropriate point and these can be mated to it or you can continue with the SCP [COLOR="red"]cat-back [/COLOR]exhaust system[/I][/B] or some other exhaust.

Note that these down tubes do NOT go all the way to the[COLOR="red"] resonator.[/COLOR]
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: jcassity on December 05, 2010, 10:32:21 PM
well that makes no sense since they are flaired and provisioned for mating to the headers.  lenght looks correct to be a home run to the headers as well.

im really not sure i would trust that company since they obviously dont know how to articulate accurate notes on a specfic model vehicle they claim to have aftermarket support parts for.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 05, 2010, 11:02:35 PM
Quote from: jcassity;344624
well that makes no sense since they are flaired and provisioned for mating to the headers.  lenght looks correct to be a home run to the headers as well.

im really not sure i would trust that company since they obviously dont know how to articulate accurate notes on a specfic model vehicle they claim to have aftermarket support parts for.
i don't understand what you mean... it says right here they go to the manifolds:

Quote
Our 2 1/4" down tubes with catalytic converters go from the factory manifolds to the transmission cross member. They will have a flared end and  like the factory exhaust to hook up to the stock cast iron manifolds.

here's a link to the page:

http://www.supercoupeperformance.com/partBrowser.aspx?partId=142
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 05, 2010, 11:07:43 PM
it should also be stated that you guys are claming that there is no honeycomb in those cats...

well one day my car developed a really loud and annoying metal ratttling sound underneath. It took me a while buy I isolated the sound to be coming from that area. so I cut the pipe between the two and after the 2nd one, and guess what blew out of the cat after I turned on the engine? a big black chunk of 1" deep honeycomb material.

If you guys are saying theres nothing in there, its more likely b/c its already blown out the back of your tailpipe.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Scott D on December 05, 2010, 11:44:15 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;344646
it should also be stated that you guys are claming that there is no honeycomb in those cats...

well one day my car developed a really loud and annoying metal ratttling sound underneath. It took me a while buy I isolated the sound to be coming from that area. so I cut the pipe between the two and after the 2nd one, and guess what blew out of the cat after I turned on the engine? a big black chunk of 1" deep honeycomb material.

If you guys are saying theres nothing in there, its more likely b/c its already blown out the back of your tailpipe.

I think they're talking about the resonators having nothing inside them resembling honeycomb.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Beau on December 06, 2010, 01:56:31 AM
Yeah, the first 2 on mine are resonators, the second set are cats, gutted though. Sounds a bit "buzzy", and has a very noticeable drone. Won't be put back on when I get to that point.

The "honeycomb" is the actual catalyst, ie, platinum.

Not exactly sure what year my stock stang h pipe is from, but the rest of the parts I have were from an '89 LX 5.0 vert...
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: vinnietbird on December 06, 2010, 10:45:35 AM
The resonators and converters from my Stang H-pipe all had the same materials in them...the honeycomb stuff. Broke it all out and re-installed it. Had a nice deeper tone after that as well.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: jcassity on December 10, 2010, 11:42:40 PM
well ,, some say yes and some say no to resonators having platnum honeycomb.

Is that really Platnum?  like the precious metal?  doesnt make sense something that valueable is in there.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: slamedcat on December 11, 2010, 03:25:17 AM
There is one small issue that all of you are forgetting. He stated it is a 96 which means it has an OBD-II computer. If the computer doesn't get the correct signal from the down stream O2 sensor the computer will throw an error code. It will run really rich. I found this out the hard way with my 96 Bird when I had true duals put on it.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on December 11, 2010, 01:02:07 PM
Quote from: jcassity;345250
well ,, some say yes and some say no to resonators having platnum honeycomb.

Is that really Platnum?  like the precious metal?  doesnt make sense something that valueable is in there.

Yep. I don't know if you heard, but a few years ago (and I'm sure it is still happening now) people were going into parking lots and cutting the cats off of people's cars because of the precious metals inside. They are quite valuable for spers.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: Ductape91 on December 11, 2010, 07:16:06 PM
im sure ive seen discussions on this subject where people have stated the "pre-cats" are no longer required for emmisions and inspection.
all the ones ive seen had honeycomb material inside of them, usually crustified with god knows what from blown headgaskets and lack of tuneups.
Title: Can We Do Without Them ??
Post by: sarjxxx on December 11, 2010, 10:41:01 PM
Quote from: Ductape91;345336
usually crustified with god knows what from blown headgaskets and lack of tuneups.

Therefore being the reason they can't pass inspection with that  cause the catalyst is useless at that point.