Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: 86tcman on November 15, 2010, 06:10:56 AM

Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 15, 2010, 06:10:56 AM
Ok, so I'm new to this forum but a few months ago i was driving my 86 TC (the fuel gauge doesn't work) and i knew i was low on gas but it died. So i walked to the gas station a few blocks down and got gas, but no matter what i did, it wouldn't start. The engine will turn over but not start. I have a feeling it's the fuel filter or fuel pump, but i can still hear the fuel pump so it must be working right? Any help is appreciated!

Please & Thanks!

-Ben
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Chuck W on November 15, 2010, 09:03:57 AM
You need to check for fuel and spark.  Not much we can do without any more info.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 15, 2010, 10:04:22 AM
Fuel filter is only $10.  Why not just change it to rule it out?
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: hcor on November 15, 2010, 10:07:43 AM
module on distributor went bad. very common for them to drop out for no reason out of the blue.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Haystack on November 15, 2010, 10:54:52 PM
Check your ignition switch first, then check spark and let us know.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 16, 2010, 11:19:27 AM
I'm going to change the fuel filter sometime this week when i don't have to help my parents, or work, or sleep (dang it! lol)
Fox Salvage-i will check on that, how much does the module on the distributor cost?
Haystack-what's the best way to check for spark?

Thanks for the tips and suggestions guys! I will look at it today or tomorrow hopefully, i would just like to get the bird runnin again!
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 16, 2010, 11:39:56 AM
Fox Salvage-Can you put up a picture of the module on the distributor? Is it the part that is plugged into on the side of the distributor?
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 16, 2010, 01:41:02 PM
Yes, the ignition module (usually called the TFI) is plugged into the distributor.

Here is a picture of it on my 86 and then a link to what it looks like off the car (Autozone link.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/001-12.jpg)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Duralast-Ignition-Control-Module/1986-Mercury-Cougar/_/N-ijagdZ9ci7x?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=ignition&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=118646_0_0_

To check for spark, pull a spark plug and wire and lay the spark plug on one of the shock towers (with the wire connected)  Crank the engine and see if it sparks. 
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/002-9.jpg)


If changing the TFI, you may need the special TFI tool pictured below.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/003-9.jpg)
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 16, 2010, 01:57:25 PM
Ahh gotcha! Is that a special tool or just a small philips head on a socket drive? because i have a lot of tools my dad gave me so i could possible have the latter lol
I figured that was what you guys were talking about, thanks so much!

Sometimes I wish there was no need for sleep like today! And yet other times i wish i could sleep forever :)
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 16, 2010, 02:02:01 PM
Actually, the side you need is the other side.  It is a really thin walled 5.5mm.  A regular 5.5 won't fit.

Only $5 at Autozone.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Ignition-module-wrench/_/N-25fu?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=ignition+module&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=2362_0_0_
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 16, 2010, 04:08:28 PM
Ok just finished checking stuff and i replaced the TFI and checked spark like Loaded87IROC said to and it still does the same thing. I took a video of what it does if i can email you? I don't have a youtube account to post it. I will try and change the fuel filter this week, possibly tomorrow.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 16, 2010, 04:37:50 PM
So did you have spark?  Have you checked fuel pressure (with a fuel pressure tester, not just pushing the schader valve?)
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 16, 2010, 05:17:20 PM
Yes i did have spark, how do i test fuel pressure? Oh, and my mom's 2003 mitsu outlander's radiator just took a  on us so gotta fix that too lol fuuuun
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 16, 2010, 07:01:10 PM
You have to use a fuel pressure tester.  This is the one I use:
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/Actron-0-100-PSI-fuel-pressure-tester-kit-with-Ford-fuel-line-adapter/_/N-25eb?counter=0&filterByKeyWord=fuel+pressure&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=84174_0_0_
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 17, 2010, 10:39:24 AM
Ok, i will have to get one then lol I will get a fuel filter tomorrow after i get my paycheck $$ :D
What should the pressure read at?
Thank you very much Loaded 87IROC, you have helped me eliminate some things, I appreciate it!
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 17, 2010, 09:53:35 PM
Pressure should be around 39psi if I remember correctly.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 18, 2010, 12:56:34 PM
Ok great, thanks!
And could it possibly be the fuel pump relay?
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 18, 2010, 07:27:22 PM
Can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key on?  If you want to try to listen from under the hood (in case you can't hear it from in the car,) ground the fuel pump pin in the self test connector for a second and see if you hear it then.  To ground it, hook up a jumper wire like this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Loaded87IROC/2010-11-18161738.jpg)
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: MobileBill23 on November 18, 2010, 09:37:30 PM
Check the fuel pressure, if you don't have any but can hear the fuel pump kick on then it's the hose in the tank.  Mine deteriorated and had to be replaced this past summer.  I had seen someone on this forum talking about that problem, not realizing I had the same thing going on - and I was driving myself crazy checking out every last thing I could think of until I finally bit the bullet and dropped the gas tank.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Haystack on November 18, 2010, 10:06:56 PM
Sorry about guys having you buy parts you didn't need. Next time, run codes first, then check things not replace them.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Loaded87IROC on November 18, 2010, 10:08:21 PM
I have had the rubber hose in the tank fall apart too.  I went ahead and changed the pump while I had the tank down.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 18, 2010, 10:50:16 PM
Ok well since it hasn't ran in about 2 months i don't remember how loud the fuel pump is or isn't. I have two 92 mustang's as well, and the fuel pumps are always ridiculously loud and it doesn't seem like the tbird's fuel pump is very loud at all lol And i haven't actually bought any parts, the TFI was from another engine that was pulled and was running just fine, i had to switch batteries though because the one in the tbird was no good. If i end up replacing the fuel pump would it be worth the money to go for a better walbro one? I might as well ask I mean, right? :)
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 20, 2010, 02:23:27 PM
Hey guys, I just changed the fuel filter today and still no start. I will pull the fuel pump and replace it as soon as i can lol
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 22, 2010, 08:37:39 PM
what rotten luck! seems like my buddy's 85 supra had it's fuel pump go out as well, oh joy! :O blech!
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: turbo88 on November 24, 2010, 12:40:19 PM
I couldnt believe these guys were jumping to distributor modules right off the bat. always check your basics first, fuel and spark. If you have a friend or someone easiest way to tell if you got fuel is to listen for the fuel pump to prime when the igntion is turned to run position...really easy way of rulling out the fuel pump or not. Then you check fuel pressure as previously stated by someone, Next is spark and theres lots of ways of checking for that to be honest. So basically it sounds like your fuel pumps more than likly toast, ive heard fuel pumps prime up and they push out nearly nothing for fuel pressure. Also take a look at your stock FPR for fun. Once you've covered the basics then you start trouble shooting other possibilites and cross off the list until youve discovered what it could be.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 24, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
alright, well i was just tryin to figure out what all to check and how to check them, i appreciate the help even if it might have been a wild goose chase! And for the record i only spent $12 on a fuel filter that probably needed to be replaced anyway. I have spark though, and it looks like the FPR has been replaced before, it's a bosch so i figure it's been replaced? And if i have to change the fuel pump, is it fairly straight-forward to install a walbro 255? Please and thanks!

-Ben
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: Haystack on November 25, 2010, 01:51:46 PM
yes, upgrade to a walbro. i'd stick to a 190 or so, unless you know your going to mod it.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 25, 2010, 04:22:51 PM
Ok, thanks Haystack. But is it fairly simple to put one in?
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: MobileBill23 on November 27, 2010, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: 86tcman;343116
Ok, thanks Haystack. But is it fairly simple to put one in?

 
The swap is straightforward.  The worst part is putting the tank back up (made harder in my case for reasons I won't go into).  Depending on the condition of the tank, getting the fuel pump out shouldn't be difficult.  The only problem you could run into is if the lock ring has rusted itself to the tank.  I've done this twice on my T-Bird, most recently this past July, and other than having a lot of dirt built up on top of the tank had no problems.  It took most of a day for the work, but I also did a lot of other work while I had the tank down.

You should drain the fuel tank before doing this, and it's recommended that when the tank is down that you have it flushed/cleaned professionally.  I'm not sure how much experience you have with pulling fuel tanks, so don't forget to remove the fuel filler neck first.  I'd get a repair guide or look up the process online before doing this just to be safe.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on November 27, 2010, 02:04:41 PM
I've pulled tanks before so its not too bad, but i appreciate the help!
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: jcassity on December 01, 2010, 11:33:28 PM
my grinder says different,,, and only said it once before phillups screws went in the place of the hex heads.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: jcassity on December 01, 2010, 11:36:33 PM
Quote from: Haystack;342224
Sorry about guys having you buy parts you didn't need. Next time, run codes first, then check things not replace them.

 
x2 

like we say,, if you have fuel,, have spark,,pull codes
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: jcassity on December 01, 2010, 11:52:48 PM
Bosch is oem brand as well as the pump if never changed.

you never did post your fuel pres reading.
You never confirmed you do hear a relay clicking and the fuel pump running.

you should have bout 40psi at the shrader valve.

to make the fuel pump run continuous for troubleshooting purposes only,,,
-go to the eec self test connector
-locate the tan/light green wire
-jumper that wire directly to chassis ground
-turn key forward
-listen for fuel pump
-if pump runs,, push in the pin on the fuel test port and if fuel sprays every friggin where like a bat outa hell, then you probably have good nuff psi to start.
-if you hear no pump, verify the inertia switch is not tripped (safety cut off switch)
-if inertia switch is not tripped...
-locate the fuel pump relay in the trunk on the pass side.
-find the tan/light green wire on the relay
-temp bond the tan/light green wire directly to chassis ground
-turn key forward again
-listen for the pump..if you hear no pump running after doing this,, hit the tank with a friggin stick or mallet.
-if pump suddenly kicks on,, replace pump

-If nothing seems to get the pump to come on,, then it sounds like the EEC relay is not coming on line so locate it and verify its getting power.

Without an eec relay powering up,, a ground will not be supplied to the fuel pump so your  in the wind.  If the eec relay is not working, im pretty sure you should not get spark but just to make sure the eec relay is working,,,, do the following
-turn on key
-see if you have power to the orange wire of the TPS,, but its only 5volts so the smaller bulb in your test light the better.

To verify your injectors are firing,, mark the base of the distributor to the head.
-rotate the dizzy back and forth and you should hear one or two of your injectors clicking.
-they will be spurting fuel into the port while you rotate the dizzy.


all of this can be done with no running motor,,,plus a whole lot more im probably missing or failing to mention.

for a complete evtm,, see the misc tech section then open up the diy post.
Title: 1986 TC won't start
Post by: 86tcman on December 04, 2010, 04:41:54 PM
Hey thanks, I'll do my best to check that stuff in the next few days hopefully lol
Thanks so much guys!