Ok today my dad and I tried to figure out what the draw is on the system thats causing my battery to die at various times.
So...
sometimes it goes for a week and its fine, starts right up
other times i turn the car off for 2 hours and its dead.
Ok found where the draw was on this wire when the car is off. But have no idea what and where it goes to.
At the starter selenoid there is 2 wires appears to be one green wire and one black wire at the hot terminal at the selenoid. Both are the fused about 8 inches from the part of connection. Both of those wires (green and black) are the fused seperatly into two yellow wires. From there it appears to go into a harness or something.
Its drawing quite badly off, But lately its just about everytime getting more worse everyday.
I looked up in the chilton manual but doesn't help me.
If anyone has the free time and is willing to give me a helpful note on what to do or where the wires lead to it'd be appriciated.
Sorry I'm no help, but I just had to say how much I like that drawing. :banana:
They go to your ignition switch and fuse panel, so that's not really going to help you narrow down the cause (BTW, the green and black wires themselves are the "fuses", otherwise known as "fusible links" - the black things are just splices).
To find the system that is causing the draw, put an ammeter on the battery in series with the ground cable, and make sure the dome light and glove box, console and all interior lights are out (remove the bulbs if you have to), then start pulling fuses one by one. When the ammeter drops you've found your draw.
If pulling all the fuses one by one does not lower the draw, try disconnecting the ignition switch. I've seen it happen before that the switch wears and the metal filings "bridge" circuits inside the switch, causing a draw. If you pull the ignition switch harness and the current drops IMMEDIATELY replace the switch! That "bridging" is very dangerous and can cause fire.
this might help
sweet thanks guys
will work on that tomorrow morning when i get up!!
Well Did just about all i know how to do... Decided not to risk anymore since i dont want to start a fire or damage the car.... anyways
Well as most of you know, my car has a serious electrical problem.
Well since day 1 about every 5 minutes my dash beeps and flashes the battery symbol. So i have a problem. But was never able to identify it.
Well since over the winter my car hasn't been able to keep a charge. At first it was like once a week it died. Then once every 3 or 4 days, then once every other day, to every day, to now every 3 hours, to now 30 minutes later.
This is extremely dangerous and with it draining that fast, fire can happen.
SOOOO.... trying to do some fixes my dad an I... first.
1) Make Sure everything is turned off
2) Took it to advanced for a batt. alt check. They passed.
3) brought it home and decided to swap batteries from the white cougar to my blue one. No luck. And white one has brand new battery.
4) Called Alt./Starter/electical Shop in DuBois,pa . Tells me it has nothin to do with the starter itself but maybe other components that deal with starting. Ok so we buy new starter Selenoid, New Positive and Ground cables. Everything.
Still doesn't work. Its so bad now that has soon as we charge it, and looses it.
well anyways... its 3 days from prom and my car is now going into the shop. My goal since I bought the car was to drive it to my senior prom. Doens't look like its going to happen. My goal of taking it is being cut short by a few days. Tried so hard and just my luck this had to happen. This could be very expensive if its something major. I'm really frustrated at it all. Did everything I can and still nothing. Major setbacks hurt. I hate taking my car to shops,but I have no choice. I am wasting a lot of money on parts and stuff that are actually still in working order in order to find the culpret. :mad:
Oh well... wat do ya expect for an older car.
ignition switch
Why not wire in a kill switch or just disconnect the battery when you park as a temporary solution? Then you could at least take it to prom.
True, but the draw on the system is crazy. Like its reading 12v. 2 seconds later 11.99 2 more seconds 11.97 2 more seconds 11.95 and so on...
You think its the ignition switch??
Disconnect your hood lamp and trunk lamp. The mercury switches in one of them (or both) could be staying on. I've had this happen many times...they are both on the same main circuit as the alternator. It'll drive you nuts unless you know this!
Also...just because the alternator passed a test doesn't mean a diode isn't sticking. It could be the ignition switch, certainly. You'd have to remove the steering column covers and check a lot of wires at the switch with a test light to find out. If it makes no difference whether the key is turned forward vs. the switch in the OFF position, then that's your answer.
But try disconnecting the hood/trunk lights first.
please do the voltage drain test like thunderchicken said.
have your meter set to vdc and put the red lead on the pos terminal and ground out your black lead somewhere or even to the battery. You should see the battery draining with your meter on it.
now pull fuses one by one till the drain stops.
narrow it down to which fuse(s) are the issue and well dig through some evtm drawings.
If you dont find any fuse is the cause including the circuit breakers,, that helps alot cause you know its gonna be one of the "unfused" runs.
let us know,,
Did that and i pulled fuses 1 and 2.
Drain is gone, but dash lights and interior lights are gone, also CD player & clock, but Electronic Climate Control is still on.
Tomorrow after I get back from my geaga lake physic's field trip I'm goin to strip the cars interior to find the short. Well since the drain ruined my two batteries had to get a new one. Man do I owe my parents, A. for my new one, and B. for the one i used to test in my car. Err..
its either the dash, interior lights, cd player, clock.
save your self an extra half the time worth of steps and check this out
try disconnecting the items that get power from fuse 1 and 2. then one by one, plug in each device and see when the draw returns.
see pic and unhook each one. If you need help locating these items or connectors,, just holler.
fuse 2- hot *hot only in accy or run (as far as i can tell)
wiper motor connector
wiper switch in steering col
fuse 1- hot either in accy or run depending on component power and which side of the fuse power is coming off the fuse holder
Ign switch- hot at all times, yellow
cornering lamp relays-lh side of inst panel support brace
(two round looking three wire conn****hot only in accy or run)
speed control-lh side center of inst panel
(a box with several wires,, ******hot at all times , changes color from LG/R at fu panel to LG going into speed control)
stop / hazard- on steering col ****hot at all times, (changes color from LG/R at fu panel to W/R at multi-function Switch.
It would not be a bad idea to consider your Multifunction switch is shorting out. it seems reasonable.
also.....
id consider the ign switch cause its a realy busy body of a switch and does go bad as well.
I still cant find what fuse 2 and fuse 1 have in common. its not likely that both circuits have separate problems but anything is posssible. fuse one and fuse two converge somewhere im sure in the ***hot at all times mode.
see pic
not really, id be looking into the hot at all times circuits.
Agreed. Something that has constant 12v+ power--and is
supposed to be switched off when the car is not running--is now stuck on. There are only a few things in your car that can suck down that much power, that quickly:
- Alternator diode stuck.
- Bad battery.
- Fuel pump circuit stuck.
- Bad/incorrect radio circuit.
- Interior lights left on.
- Mercury switch in hood/trunk lights stuck open.
- Ignition switch stuck/malfunctioning.
Now out of this list, Steve...which do you think is the most likely? Considering that the problem goes away when pulling fuses 1 and 2, my bet's on the ignition switch.
"""fuse 1- hot either in accy or run depending on component power and which side of the fuse power is coming off the fuse holder"""""
i have to correct myself here,,i meant to say
Fuse 1- hot always no matter if the keys are in or not
or..............
hot in the accy or run mode.
this depends on the device the power wire goes to. if the power wire goes to a device that does not have a switch controlling it,, its only defense is the fuse. if there is a drain in your battery when the keys are out,, it be looking into what circuits have power with no keys.
look into circuits wired like the yellow example.
if your drain continued with all fuses pulled, id say look into circuits like the purple run. These circuits usually depend on a ballast of some type somewhere.
i guess you could sum it up to this...we have
Fused circuits running through the ign switch (hot in accy or run)
Fused circuits running directly to a device without a switch (hot at all times and fused)
Unfused circuits running directly to a device (ballast type fuse)
sorry its blurry, i goofed up.
K time to go figure out some stuff....
be back after I try to figure this out.
and THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR GUYS HELP. Without you all I dont know what I'd be doing right now.
Correction
The guy at the shop told me the wrong fuse numbers. I got down underneath and looked for the missing fuses and fuse 8 was missing. Not fuse 1 and 2.
We ran testing lights and when 8 fuse was in (illuminated entry, tripminder on cluster etc, radio, clock, courtasy lamps) then the light lite saying of draw, unhook and test light went out.
Also when we were playing with ignition it was jumping alittle bit. We are going to replace this next week just incase. Ran outta time today.
So draw is coming from fuse 8. Checked the radio and its fine. Now gotta check the rest. Any common areas now? Wat to look for.
Sorry for the misinfo.
OK i just replaced the ignition switch (i know finally, been really busy lately)
There were 2 draws (found this out by testing)
1- ignition switch
2- Fuse Number 8
replaced the ignition switch, and now thats good now. No draw at all like before.
Now onto the next step....
fuse controls
Courtesy Lamps, Key Warning Buzzer, Illuminated Entry Module, Glove Box Lamp, Door Lock Relays, Radio Memory, Cluster Memory, Outside Mirrors, Tripminder Module, buttstuffog Clock, Anti-Theft Relay
Is there any problem areas within that group that I should check first? Save some time? Whatever the draw is we have test lights and its glowing REAL bright compared to that of the ignition switch when it was bad.
Sorry that I have to ask so many questions about stuff that I should just be out trying to figure out myself. But if I can save 2 hours or so, then that would be great.
THANKS!!!!
Just my 2 cents, I dont know much, but anything in that list could be draining power without actually doing something.
The best way to save time would be to check the easy things 1st. And if your luicky it will be something like the radio instead of something harder to get to.
Let's break it down, Steve..
Courtesy Lamps - You'd physically see them on if there were a problem.
Key Warning Buzzer - You'd hear it if it were a problem.
Illuminated Entry Module - Do you have this? If so, flag it as 'possible'.
Glove Box Lamp - Again, you'd see it.
Door Lock Relays - Hmmm...possible.
Radio Memory - Very possible.
Cluster Memory - Not likely.
Outside Mirrors - You'd hear the motors moving.
Tripminder Module - I don't think you have this.
buttstuffog Clock - Well, it runs all the time!
Anti-Theft Relay - You don't have this.
Take the things marked 'possible' above and start searching there. Your door lock/unlock relays are under your passenger seat IIRC.
Geesh after I actually take a second and look they are all fairly common sense stuff.
I need to take a breath and stop rushing so fast.
Thanks E-dawg
Any progress on this Steve?
bump. I'm curious. how's it going.. did you make it to prom in the car... ooo... the suspense is killing me :P