General => Lounge => Topic started by: thunderjet302 on September 01, 2010, 10:39:37 AM
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 01, 2010, 10:39:37 AM
So I've been a proponent of saving the fox bodies from dd duty as they are getting old and not many are left that are not rusty (here anyways;)). I have however started to tire of my 3.8 MN-12. It is kinda boring to drive. I've found this http://www.signature-autos.com/detail-1987-mercury-cougar-xr7-used-6019592.html and I'm seriously considering getting it for dd duty and selling the MN-12. Is it possible to dd a fox in the north and not have it get eaten by the salt in the winter? If it's not then I'll keep my eyes open for a 5.0 MN-12 or a Mark VII.
My girlfriend has brought up the point of just buying a brand new car. My response is I can think of better things to do with 30K then spend it on something that will be worth half of what I paid for it in 5 years:hick:
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: mcb82gt on September 01, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
See the rust proofing thread. What do you think.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: tbirdsps on September 01, 2010, 11:28:59 AM
Wow, just my opinion too but I can use any car here for a DD and be happy. Also my 92 MN-12 Tbird is quite boring. I've had it for 12 years but I didn't suffer as it was the wife's car. It feels like it's about 9,000 lbs. I just need to massage that AOD and EFI engine in to the 86 which feels like 2,000 lbs. That extra 5" in width makes the MN-12 feel big bulky and heavy.
I'm with you. Older cars are better as DDs than spending 30k on a new whatever.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: dragon574444 on September 01, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
Well, they were meant to be daily drivers back in the 80's, so I think they'll do fine ;) Lots of cars are still around in the North.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: hypostang on September 01, 2010, 11:46:52 AM
I imagine with weekly trips through a car wash with undercarriage spray the rust munchers could be kept at bay somewhat :D
Mine will be driven daily as soon as I get my license back , My last DD was my 88 Mark VII .
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: ZondaC12 on September 01, 2010, 11:57:55 AM
Thing is NICE! Definitely wouldnt want to see it ruined. But it takes a good 5-10 years for things to really get bad, that's got a fresh start. Do like I told ya, plunk down about 100 bucks for one of those husky ~1500 psi or so pressure washers on ebay, might even find it for that price at HD or lowes, I forget. Theyre no more than $150 for sure. So worth it tho. If it's above freezing out, hook it up to the faucet outside and blast away. Spend a honest 20-30 minutes blasting the fenderwells and floor off, unfortunately without hot water the salt wont dissolve as well but youll be better off than washing it at the car wash.....aaaaaand driving back home over salty roads with a wet car that dry powdery salt sticks to like glue. :hick:
And as crude as it is, honestly if I were you I'd do what I did to the 'Vic. Get a lot of cardboard, put it down, jack up one end of the car nice and high, and get 3 or 4 cans of WD-40 Big Blast and fog the hell out of it, spray the whole undercarraige with a couple coats, let it sit a day to gel up then coat it again. Soon Im doing this with the silver cat because I wanna rip around this winter in it, just when the roads dry, so I can enjoy a low 13 sec car in the winter :rollin:
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: bhazard on September 01, 2010, 12:17:00 PM
Take out the valve cover gaskets.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: irv on September 01, 2010, 04:25:03 PM
for that price spend a little more and take it to ziebart and have them shoot it. they have a used car system. if that was a bird and not a cougar i bet you wouldnt dd it, lou. looks too nice to run in the winter. its not my money so go for it.--irv
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: vinnietbird on September 01, 2010, 05:30:00 PM
The Sport is great as my daily driver.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: mcb82gt on September 01, 2010, 08:12:27 PM
Man, I love the two tones.
Can you get around in rear drive up in Chicago? What it your long term goal for the car?
Do you want to keep the car forever? It will last many years if you keep the salt washed out when you can. It will eventually creep into every area though, just a matter of time.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Haystack on September 01, 2010, 08:21:32 PM
Any car not kept in a plastic bag is going to rust sooner or later. If you just get rid of the rust as you notice it, it will be fine. I drove my car for a 150 mile commute for four months of winter. From early January to early April. Went down to a couple below several time. Snowed several feet a couple of times too. There was a couple of times when I was the only person to show up because no one else thought they could make it.
I had my throttle cable come undone(previous owner swapped the throttle cable and lost the clip that goes in the cable end) and dropped my front u-joint from an eaten up yoke. Not the cars fault, but I also drove through the back of a cadilac, and was able to fix it for work in the morning. Make sure the alignment is good. These cars like front tires.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Dansbirds on September 01, 2010, 08:21:59 PM
I drove my 87 as a dd for about 4 years. Ran around on 10 holes and good tires and went just about everywhere I go in my Jeep. Last year put snows on with the steel wheels and granny caps and kept a full size spare in the trunk and it got around but not as well. Of course I went and sold the car and now want/need another so I can park this XR7
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: 20thanniver-ls on September 01, 2010, 08:28:55 PM
I drove my first 20th as a dd when I was a senior in high school and through my first few years of work, and it was great, comfy, stylish :D LOL You have a fox bird already, so you know how they drive, next time you drive it, think of what it would be like to drive it everyday, then buy that Cougar, and drive that everyday. You won't be dissapointed and as long as you keep up with undercarriage washes and maybe get it rustproofed I think it will hold up just fine.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: jangus on September 01, 2010, 09:14:55 PM
My only problem with daily driving my TC is the lack of factory cupholders. That's it.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 01, 2010, 09:34:11 PM
I daily-drove my 88 T-Bird for three years, and an '87 Sport for a few years before that (and even drove the Sport in winter) and liked it enough. The Sport was a tank in snow with four good snow tires.
If you don't want it to rust, undercoat the bejeesus out of it. And I mean remove the door panels and spray inside the doors, and remove the trunk liners and spare tire and spray inside the quarters. Take the plastic front inner fenders out and spray inside the front fenders. Spray the inner strut towers down where you know they rot. And remove the lower inside quarter panels (by the back seat) and spray in around that seam that these cars tend to rust on. It might take a full day, but it'll be worth it to not have the car fall apart. In other words, protect everywhere that you know these cars are pr0ne to rust, because an undercoating shop is just gonna squirt stuff where they can reach, and generally, if it's accessible enough to spray like that it won't rust there anyway (rust forms where water gets into confined spaces and stays there, such as between two sheet metal panels bolted or welded together such as door bottoms, seams, etc).
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: RunninWild on September 01, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
This thread has even further motivated me to never leave my mosquito infested, swampy coastlines.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 02, 2010, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: irv;334390
for that price spend a little more and take it to ziebart and have them shoot it. they have a used car system. if that was a bird and not a cougar i bet you wouldnt dd it, lou. looks too nice to run in the winter. its not my money so go for it.--irv
If it was a T-bird I wouldn't consider it. I like the Cougars but they just don't have the appeal that the T-birds do for me. I do like the Cougars enough though that I'm having second thoughts about this idea. It would be easier if it was a base V6 car and not a XR-7.
If it was you Cougar irv I would put it in a plastic bag and keep it in the garage with my T-bird in the winter;) Problem is I can only have one car that is a toy as I only have a 1.5 car garage.
Quote from: mcb82gt;334401
Man, I love the two tones.
Can you get around in rear drive up in Chicago? What it your long term goal for the car?
Do you want to keep the car forever? It will last many years if you keep the salt washed out when you can. It will eventually creep into every area though, just a matter of time.
Yeah you can get around with rear drive easy in Chicago. I do it with a MN-12. The roads are pretty clear with all the salt they use... my 87,000 mile MN-12 has rocker rot and I wash the thing once a week in the winter.
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;334416
I daily-drove my 88 T-Bird for three years, and an '87 Sport for a few years before that (and even drove the Sport in winter) and liked it enough. The Sport was a tank in snow with four good snow tires.
If you don't want it to rust, undercoat the bejeesus out of it. And I mean remove the door panels and spray inside the doors, and remove the trunk liners and spare tire and spray inside the quarters. Take the plastic front inner fenders out and spray inside the front fenders. Spray the inner strut towers down where you know they rot. And remove the lower inside quarter panels (by the back seat) and spray in around that seam that these cars tend to rust on. It might take a full day, but it'll be worth it to not have the car fall apart. In other words, protect everywhere that you know these cars are pr0ne to rust, because an undercoating shop is just gonna squirt stuff where they can reach, and generally, if it's accessible enough to spray like that it won't rust there anyway (rust forms where water gets into confined spaces and stays there, such as between two sheet metal panels bolted or welded together such as door bottoms, seams, etc).
Holy that's a lot of undercoating. I bet it would still find away to rust some how, some way...
I'm thinking that getting this car for a dd is a bad idea. I like the fox's too much to kill one and it looks like no matter how much rust proofing I do the thing will rot, bad. I might be better looking for a V8 MN-12.
Oh and as for dding a fox, well, lets put it this way. I've had my 88 out of the garage since April 1st. I've put 400 miles on it since then. I dd my 95. I've put 3,000 miles on it. The 88 just gets driven to and from cruise nights or car shows and it's one trip to the track this year. I've only got till October 31st till the 88 goes away for the winter so it might get 500 miles on it by then;)
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: ZondaC12 on September 02, 2010, 01:04:33 AM
Dude I am serious as a heart attack haha. And I'm sure you did read my post, don't take offense, I sure didn't, I just wanna repeat myself one because im a d-bag and two because maybe it'll work :hick::rollin: If I had pictures I could show ya. The vic lost some of the WD by the end of each of the two winters I drove it...but it still glistened just a little.
Undercoating is tough stuff BUT it's also made of rubber. Which can dry rot, chip, crack, you get the idea. Ive a friend with an old Land Rover that restored it.....to use it as a DD and off-road it, beat the hell out of it, and that includes subjecting it to the nasty winter! :eek: He uses stuff from Rovers North (look up the site) called Waxoyl. It's clearly got the right carbon chain that as a petroleum product it's between, you guessed it, a wax and an oil. It sprays on but dries like candle wax. And stays there. Really expensive though. Undercoating, as Carm said, may not get in everywhere. And if it chips, it'll let the elements in.
I guess now that he mentions it, go ahead and pull the trunk liner pieces, soak the inner quarters too, front fenders inside the splashguards, hell pull the door panels and just fill the bottom. Just put a catch can for the water drain holes ;)
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 02, 2010, 01:15:54 AM
I read your post and realized that to keep the car nice I'd have to do horrible things to the underside:hick: Well at least messy things. I would feel bad if something happened to that Cougar though. It's kinda a catch 22. I want to drive a car I really like all the time but if I do it will die from rot. Then again if I don't buy it who ever does will probably beat it to death......
If I don't get it I might try spraying the bottom of the 95 with WD-40 before winter. It won't help the rockers though as they already have rust...
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Thunder Chicken on September 02, 2010, 06:40:19 AM
Quote from: ZondaC12;334453
Undercoating is tough stuff BUT it's also made of rubber. Which can dry rot, chip, crack, you get the idea. Ive a friend with an old Land Rover that restored it.....to use it as a DD and off-road it, beat the hell out of it, and that includes subjecting it to the nasty winter! :eek: He uses stuff from Rovers North (look up the site) called Waxoyl. It's clearly got the right carbon chain that as a petroleum product it's between, you guessed it, a wax and an oil. It sprays on but dries like candle wax. And stays there. Really expensive though. Undercoating, as Carm said, may not get in everywhere. And if it chips, it'll let the elements in.
Actually, I was referring to the waxy stuff, not the rubber stuff. That rubber stuff is worse than nothing at all, because once water gets under it, it stays there. You end up with a layer of pristine looking undercoating but no metal underneath it because it's rotted away.
But yeah, even the waxy stuff can chip off, but if you touch it up regularly it'll be OK. The most important thing is to get it into all the nooks and crannies that on these cars are known to rust.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: ZondaC12 on September 02, 2010, 08:30:23 AM
Ah okay, I didn't know that was more widely available. First I'd heard of a waxy type formula was from that rover nut lol.
Lou actually made a thread about it but living here I think about this all the time. The Vic became an "experiment", I wanted to make that last years doing that.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Chuck W on September 02, 2010, 08:53:59 AM
I hate driving almost ANY vehicle around here in the winter. You can hear them rust. I wish they would just use sand instead of salt, and keep the roads plowed.
I used to do Foxes in the winter, as dailies, etc, but it winds up sending too many of them to their grave. No matter what you do, you will watch them degrade before your very eyes. Even my Volvo, which comes from the land of the ice and snow, and is undercoated the bejeezus, suffered this past winter, and I hate it.
My problem is that I'm NEVER satisfied with leaving cars alone, even if they're just drivers. I also can't stand driving something that it don't want to drive, or doesn't inspire me. A clapped-out s&%t-box to drive in the winter is not what I want either.
I've thought about a Fox as just a driver a couple times, but I talk myself out of it. If I lived someplace besides the rust belt, I'd for certain have a low-key Fox DD. Around here though, I just can't do it in good conscience.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: 50tbrd88 on September 02, 2010, 11:59:30 AM
I agree w/Chuck. I refuse to ever put my fox through DD duty in the winter again. They are well made cars, but salt will eat them alive. My car was only driven in 3-4 winters of salt and it still had rust bubbles starting before I painted it. I am buttstuff about washing the car and cleaning it. I don't care how much powerwashing you do, winter driving will still make the car rust.
If I lived in Florida or somewhere nice, my T-bird would be driven 12 mos out of the year.
Just remember, they will NEVER make fox t-bird/cougars again. So I think we should do our part as a community to try and preserve the few nice ones we have left.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: CoogarXR on September 02, 2010, 01:11:15 PM
My DD 83 cougar is a seamonster. Most of you guys would never be caught dead in it. I agree with the rust factor. When I bought it, it had no rust at all. Now it is completely rusted out. Sanded and primered, and rusted through that too. I have been running it through about 7 years worth of winters though.
Another thing to remember is the possibility of a collision. Many of us have wrecked our DD at no fault of our own. There's plenty of morons out there. You can't just go the junk yard and find body parts anymore (well, i can't anyway).
I have been driving my 85 turbo as a DD for a couple months since it's been so hot out and it's the only thing I own that the AC works, heh. Just the other day I had to skid on the brakes from some asshat pulling out in front of me when I was going 55. If this car gets wrecked, I will have to be put in an institution...
But I will probably always drive a fox as a DD. I just like 'em. Cougars, tbirds, marquis and ltds. I have had tons of them. BUT! If you find one you like a lot, don't use it as a DD. DD's are disposable (IMHO), unfortunately.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: mcb82gt on September 02, 2010, 07:47:32 PM
I was going to bring that up about someone hitting you. People are idiots and cant drive well in good road conditions, let alone snow and ice.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: 50tbrd88 on September 02, 2010, 08:42:53 PM
Quote from: mcb82gt;334533
I was going to bring that up about someone hitting you. People are idiots and cant drive well in good road conditions, let alone snow and ice.
I think about that every time I drive my T-bird. Seems like it has a big red target on it sometimes. :flame:
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: vinnietbird on September 02, 2010, 08:49:24 PM
No rust on the Sport,no undercoating either,and it does have a cup holder now that works great.LOL.
Next week,tinted windows and a/c....WOO-HOO !!!!
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: 5.0 tbird on September 02, 2010, 09:49:42 PM
Here is as far north as I would ever drive a car year round that I didn't want to rust.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Masejoer on September 02, 2010, 11:26:37 PM
Quote from: 5.0 bird;334551
Here is as far north as I would ever drive a car year round that I didn't want to rust.
Pfft, I'm much further north than you (Washington state), but we don't have rust over here :p
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 02, 2010, 11:28:05 PM
I'm thinking that getting that car for a dd is a bad idea. I've kinda talked myself out getting that XR-7 as I don't want to kill it. I think the better thing to do is find a V8 MN-12 as I won't mind it as much if it dies......
You guys have hit it on the head though. Living in the rust belt you can't drive a car you like as a dd. The problem is I don't think I could drive a fwd, 4 cylinder pos all year....
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Haystack on September 02, 2010, 11:43:46 PM
2 words, crown vic.
V-8 that takes the same mods, same engine tranny ect, and they are framed, parts are fairly cheap, and there everywhere. Who cares if one of those has a couple of rust bubbles?
I just got an 88 California crown vic station wagon for the wife to drive. They do well in wrecks too.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: irv on September 03, 2010, 08:05:59 AM
why does everyone not like the MN-12 cars.the 96 cougar i bought already has 300 miles on it since i got it.gotta cut that out. its more comfortable,faster, and gets better mileage.as if im worried about using a tank a year on either car.granted it will be harder and more expensive to work on. my bucket fits its bucket better[full figured]. we all like what we like.this one was and never will be a daily driver. but its nice for an evening[before the bugs come out] cruise.--irv
actually i like the 94-5 front end better though. this will be the last cougar i own
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Chuck W on September 03, 2010, 08:30:53 AM
Quote from: irv;334575
why does everyone not like the MN-12 cars.
Personally? I think they're bloated, soft, and far too heavy. The lines don't really appeal to me either.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Chuck W on September 03, 2010, 08:32:25 AM
Quote from: vinnietbird;334541
Next week,tinted windows and a/c....WOO-HOO !!!!
Just in time for fall!
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: vinnietbird on September 03, 2010, 09:29:17 AM
Yep,a little late,but still getting it done. On the day it's finished (the a/c),if there were to be a cold front,and it gets down to freezing,I'm still going to use the a/c. I haven't had one in 11 or 12 years.When it's crazy hot,and we're going somewhere as a family,we always take the wife's car.
Oh,around here,fall starts around December.LOL.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: irv on September 03, 2010, 09:41:12 AM
Quote from: Chuck W;334576
Personally? I think they're bloated, soft, and far too heavy. The lines don't really appeal to me either.
you just described me. maybe thats why i like them--irv
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: Chuck W on September 03, 2010, 09:59:43 AM
Quote from: irv;334583
you just described me. maybe thats why i like them--irv
Ha!
We used to do some work on them back when I was at Kenny Brown's, and I was always less than impressed. It was like Ford purposefully gave you nothing to work with if you wanted something besides a cushy cruiser. Even the SC's were blah.
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: irv on September 03, 2010, 11:32:50 AM
the last time the mercury owners club had their event at the speedway we had a tour of K B,s place. got a ride in the blown navigator. it was quite a place.--irv
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: thunderjet302 on September 03, 2010, 11:38:46 AM
I don't mind the MN-12s they are nice cars. They just don't have the appeal that the Fox cars do to me. They are cushy and nice but they just feel, well, big. I know my 88 is actually longer than my 95 but the 95 is wider and weighs as much as my 88. My 88 is fully loaded minus the sun roof, the 95 is not close to loaded. Quite frankly I like the styling of the Foxs much more as well. The MN-12s scream Thunderbird but they are not as stylish/swoopy as the Foxs. If you look at a Fox car you will find more angles and curves than on a MN-12. The MN-12 is a much flatter car.
Maybe I should get a Crown Vic. That way I won't be killing a T-bird or a Cougar, Fox or MN-12, with salt in the winter;)
Title: Fox as a daily driver good idea or not?
Post by: 50tbrd88 on September 03, 2010, 02:43:04 PM
My bro has a '96 T-bird...the salt has not been kind to it either. The lower 1/4's in front of the rear wheels are nearly gone.
I never could get used to the cheesy interior fabrics on the MN12's either. My bro's car is green with green interior (yuck).