As the title says. My radio won't even turn on. But the lights work. Is there any chance that the modifications to the wiring harness could have caused this if done improperly?
There is the chance, but you'd probably better look at that ignition switch as well. They're pr0ne to sudden, catastrophic failure (and quite often, fire). When no ignition switched accessory works, or when several stop working at once, the ign witch is usually at fault. Also, check the fusible links at the starter solenoid (driver's side fender) to make sure none are burned and that they are getting a good connection. Those fusible links feed the ignition switch among other things.
Good thinking. You might be on to something because my fuel pump won't turn on either. Now is the ignition switch the the where the key goes in or is it the thing underneath where the wires plug into?
something to try:
get in the car, and slowly rotate the key into the run position, and slowly past the run position, my dads car had a bad switch, and he would be able to turn on the "functions" with different key positions
Oh yeah forgot.....The ding ding ding you get when your key is in and your door is open still dings. Does that rule out the bad switch?
Anyone else?
No, the "Dinger" switch is right in the lock cylinder, not affected by the ignition switch. The ignition switch is mounded below the lock cylinder on the steering column. If you remove the lower plastic you'll see it. A new one is about $12, and it's worth every penny. I personally had a car burn because of these faulty switches (it didn't burn "to the ground", but it did leave me stranded 500 miles from home)
Thanks for the info. Tomorrow i'm gonna borrow the ignition switch out of my parts car and see if that works. If it doesn't I'll just go ahead and buy a new one anyways for the peice of mind.
Tryed the ignition switch swap but it didn't work. Maybe because the car I borrowed from was an 86? Idk but i'm getting real pissed off now. This is rediculous. If it isn't one thing, it's another. Maybe I forgot to hook a ground back up? Would that couse this?
Anybody else with some ideas???????
A bad ground could cause it, but your lights likely wouldn't work either if this were the case. Didja check those fusible links at the starter solenoid?
With the lights on, try cranking it. If the lights go dim or out, the starter is getting juice but not enough to turn over. Could be a bad battery or bad connection. If the lights don't change there is no juice getting to the starter.
Since you've already got the column shroud off and you can get to the ignition switch wiring, do the following checks:
Check for power at the large YELLOW (both of them, there are two) and BLACK/ORANGE wires at the ignition switch - these wires go directly to the starter solenoid, so if you've got no power at all three (all three must have power) your problem is in the wiring between the switch and solenoid (or the aforementioned fusible links).
If there is power at those wires, turn the ignition to "run" and test for power at the GREY/YELLOW STRIPE wire, the RED/GREEN STRIPE wire and the BLACK/GREEN STRIPE wire. In "RUN" all three of these wires should be hot. If any of them aren't, but you have power at the yellow and black/orange wires tested above, you have a bad ignition switch. Now turn the switch to "START" and check the RED/BLUE STRIPE and YELLOW/RED STRIPE wires for power. If these wires have power, and all of the wires above have power with their respective tests, your ignition switch is OK.
If you have power at all of these wires check the wiring between the switch and the fuse panel, and the main bulkhead connector in the firewall.
To recap, at the ignition switch harness (with it plugged into the switch) you should have the following results:
Key in OFF position:
Power at YELLOW (X2) and BLACK/ORANGE STRIPE
Key in RUN:
Power at YELLOW (X2), BLACK/ORANGE STRIPE, GREY/YELLOW STRIPE, RED/GREEN STRIPE, and BLACK/GREEN STRIPE
Key in START:
Power at YELLOW (X2), BLACK/ORANGE STRIPE, RED/GREEN STRIPE, RED/BLUE STRIPE and YELLOW/RED STRIPE
Key in ACC:
Power at YELLOW (X2), BLACK/ORANGE STRIPE, BLACK/GREEN STRIPE
Thanks for the info once again and no I did not check the fusible links because I do not know what they are. i looked around the started solenoid and could not find anything other than wires.
k scratch that last post, found em. They were down in there pretty deep. They all looked pretty good. Nothing unusual about them. checking the ignition wires like you said to as soon as i post this. I'll come back with the results.
None had power.......According to my light tester. Is that good enough for automotive stuff? What I did to test was cut some sheating away from the wire and put the red side to it then grounded the black side to a piece of metal on my center concole that is grounding other stuff. Would that be adequate?
fusible links are wires that are thinner than the rest of the circuit and are coated in a fireproof insulation. They are designed to burn up before the rest of the wire in the circuit in case of a short to prevent fire damage. They are quite capable of blowing or breaking with no visible damage, and the connection at the solenoid can corrode as well. Check them by first very carefully visually inspecting them and checking the connections for corrosion, and by probing the wires on the other side of the factory splice with your test light (after about 6" of wire from the solenoid there should be factory splices where the fuse links attach to the regular wires - check the regular wires after this connection). If you have power at all of the wires your problem is between this point and the ignition switch. You'll either have to find the problem or run new wires (of course finding the problem is more desirable).
Did you have the solenoid out of the car at all? If so, are you sure you attached those fse links to the right side of the solenoid? They should be connected to the side of the solenoid that has power all the time (there will be a short, thick cable directly to the battery positive post).
A light tester should be OK, but to ensure that you're getting a good ground you should try the red side on a known good positive (cig lighter socket, console light, etc). This also verifies that the test light is working. You wouldn't want to misdiagnose based on a bad test light or bad ground to the test light!
If you're not getting any power at all (and you're sure the test light has a good ground), the problem would have to be in the two yellow and one black/orange wire. It's unlikely that both of these "burned" or broke, even the fusible links, so you should check the bulkhead electrical connector at the firewall.
Little update for ya....... Bridged the 2 posts on the starter solenoid and the motor turned over. :D A little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.
sounds like you gots to replace the wires to the starter then. Good luck!
If the starter turns over when the solenoid is bridged there's nothing wrong with the starter's wiring. The wiring to the solenoid is a different matter.
Try bridging the large post closest to the battery to the small post (the one that points toward the engine compartment). If the solenoid clicks and the engine turns over the solenoid is fine as well.
This is not the problem, though, since you don't have any power at the ignition switch (based on your tests noted above). Your problem is with the two large yellow and single large black/orange stripe wires going to the ignition switch. Somewhere between the switch and the starter solenoid those wires are disconnected. Be it a bad fusible link, an unplugged connector, a loose bulkhead connector or whatever, you will not get your car working until you get power to that ignition switch.
Sounds like when you swapped the pins in your wiring harness for the eec you placed them in the wrong positions.
If the car ran before and not now then that is definetly what you did wrong or you have a dead eec.
Print out the wire swap diagram and be sure to place it the write way up when looking at which pins are which.
The trigger wire on the top of the solenoid(red with blue stripe i believe) is not sending power to turn on the solenoid,this is due to the fact i have stated above.
If one wire (say an eec power wire was placed in the wrong position then your car will not turn over and you may have roasted your eec.
"If one wire (say an eec power wire was placed in the wrong position then your car will not turn over and you may have roasted your eec"
Well that sucks.
"Try bridging the large post closest to the battery to the small post (the one that points toward the engine compartment). If the solenoid clicks and the engine turns over the solenoid is fine as well."
I did that and nothing happened. But when i did it with the post furthest away from the battery, the solenoid clicked but didn't turn the starter.
If i bridge the two post together and turn it over will the engine fire up? I have the upper intake off right now so when i put it on i would atleast like to hear it run for some motivation.
Well i just quadruple checked the harness and eec pin locations and they look good to me. One thing I did notice was that there was no pin in location 23 and in doing my research i have found that the computer ground wire is supposed to be in 23. Is that just for mustangs or does that apply to all harnesses? Also, when i was repinning, there was a pin in location 50 and there isn't supposed to be. One of the maf signal wires need to go there so i took it out. I believe that it was for the cruise control. Think that might be related to my problem?
You can completely remove the EEC from your car or repin it any way you like and the car will still turn over. It won't start, and you might destroy the EEC, but it will turn over. The circuit from the ign switch to the starter solenoid is a direct one, stopping only at the neutral safety switch on its way. The EEC has nothing to do with turning the engine over.
That being said, one might think it could be the park-neutral switch, but this would only explain the not turning over part. It would not explain the "no radio" part, nor would it explain the no power at the ignition switch part. The no power at the ignition switch is key - until you get power there the car will not run. You can turn it over by jumping the solenoid, as you have found, but this will do nothing but turn the engine over - it will never start because the fuel pump, distributor, coil, injectors and everything else required to run the car will not be "live". Neither will your signal lights, radio, heater, or any other ignition-switched circuit be live.
You have GOT to get power to those two yellow and one black/orange wires at the ignition switch. Even if you have to run new wires straight from the battery, through the firewall, and to the switch (NOTE: If you do this, make sure you use wire no smaller than 10-gauge. These wires carry a lot of current, and smaller wire WILL burn.). You are wasting your time with any other diagnostic step until you have power there. Without that power about 80% of your car's electrical "nervous system", including 100% of what is required to make it run, is missing. The ignition switch cannot feed those circuits unless it has power to feed them, and it gets its power to feed them from those three wires.
What Thunder Chicken just said is 100% correct...
You need to keep looking for a wiring problem.
Well i don't know guys but in my personal exp,i removed the eec from my car once when it was a 2.3l and it wouldn't turn over,all i had was lights,signals door ding(not sure about stereo as mine is rewired) etc but nothing eng related.
Also if the car ran fine before this and all he did was repin the harrness for the maf then there in lies his problem.
Now it could be that it was pinned wrong and then caused a short else where but if it ran before then he has to start with what was wired wrong at the eec.
Here's the wiring diagram for the starting system in these cars:
(http://www.foxthundercats.com/tech/38start.jpg)
You'll note that the EEC-IV does not even come into play. You'll also note that those two all-important yellow wires go into the ignition switch. No power at those two wires = no start. This is not a complete diagram of that ignition switch, either - all of the other positions of that switch (RUN, ACC, START, OFF) have their own circuits, and ALL of those circuits are fed by the yellow wires noted above and the black/orange stripe wire not shown. There is no clearer way to say it: Until you have power at those wires you are wasting your time diagnosing anything else.
To settle this one, I just went out and pulled the EEC out of the blue 5.0 Bird.... AND
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It cranks just fine....
I guees I'm gonna run those three wires in the morning. I'll let you know how it goes. Thank you guys very much for the valuble information. without it i would be lost.
Hooked up the two yellow wires to the post on the starter solenoid that is attatched to the positive side of the battery. Turn the key and the key related functions turn on and the starter solenoid clicked but the motor didn't turn over. I could notfind a black and orange striped wire either. Oh yeah my autometer tach went backwards when the key was turned to run.
I was g with it more today and i got it turn over! :D Yaaaaaaaayyyyyyy! BUt there wasn't enough juice in the battery to start it. Its probably 180 out of time too. I'll mess with it more tomorrow and I'll let you know how it turns out.
Well now all of you guys can finally sleep at night :rolleyes: ......I fixed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woooooooooooooooowhooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thank everybody who helped very much. Definetly would not have the first idea on what to do. And boy I must say it sure does sound a helluva lot better with the new ho cam instead of that shiznitty so cam. The car seems to have taken well to the cam install and maf conversion. Very glad about that. It idles great at around 8-900 rpms. Anybody know what its supposed to idle at?Taking it for a test spin to see if the cam makes any more power tomorrow.
Uhh I had no problems sleepin'...(Wasn't my car) :D
So what did you finally do to get it runnin'??
Ran a 10g wire from the hotside on the starter solenoid to the two yellow wires going into the ignition switch and finally figured out how to correctly put my distributor in. I have it timed by hand to where it runs decent. I borrowed a timing light off a buddy but it didn't project a beam or anything so i figure its broke. Guess I'll buy a cheap one here soon. I never messed with with timing or distributors before so this was a learning experience for me.
You're welcome.
Now, to fix the car you should find out why you didn't have power at those yellow wires to begin with. If you've got a dangling, broken 10 gauge wire somewhere in the dash you could have problems...
Could I just take off the main yellow wire from the starter solenoid since I have a new wire doing its job?