i am thinking about getting a 1993 thunderbird and swapping engines, has any one swapped in a 351 4v Cleveland and C6 into a 93 thunderbird?
I haven't, but if you consider the dimensions of a 4.6L fitting in one of these cars, then a 351C should. I know they fit the '87 and earlier.
from 84 to 94 they only had the v6 from what i have read, after 94 they went to a v8, are the engine compartments the same?
i was told that a fox mustang conversion kit may work and just wanted to see if anyone has done it. also d&d makes a kit for up to1986 fox thunderbirds, is there a lot of differance between the 86 and 93 in the engine bay?
Where the motor mounts attach to the K-member changed mid-1986. It used to be the same as Fox Mustangs, but changed to their own design for whatever reason, lol. Anywho, the Chuck W type 6 mounts are what I was referring to earlier that bolt a v8 to the redesigned K-member. Chuck's on here, too. Here's his page: http://www.turbochuck.com/wp-content/motormounts.html And as you may know, the 3.8, 5.0, 351W and 351C all use the same mounts.
thanks for the link, from what i understand the 3.8's even have the same trans bolt pattern as the sbf.
Actually 1989 models only had the 3.8 V6 and the 3.8 supercharged V6. 1990 they had both the 3.8 and 5.0. I'm not sure which year they switched to the 4.6 modular engine. It's my understanding that the cross member is the same and all configurations. It was called the MN-12 chassis. Pretty much all metric but only the engine mounts differ. Lots of transmission choices as well. There is a tremendous amount of difference in the engine compartments. The 89-97 Tbirds and Cougars have plenty of room for all the Ford small blocks including 4.6 and 5.4.
thank you that helps out a lot.
The 4.6 showed up in 93, and the crossmember changed, and thus the bases of the motor mounts changed, while the upper portions did not.
I'm not familiar with the stock motor mounts for a 351C, but I do have mounts that would mount a 302/351W into a 93-97 MN-12.
the 351C uses the same mount as the 289,302,351W.
one other thing i will have to research is the change over from fuel injection to carberated, how much computer stuff i need to remove and what will be effected from it.
this is the engine i plan to put in the bird.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_sp1MpupnU
All fuel injected Fox Birds had the 5.0 as a option(Std on '87 & '88 Sport)... Only the 3.8 was available in '89 & '90, with the HO 5.0 added for '91-'93, first 4.6 were in the '94s... MN12 motor mounts for the '91-'93 5.0 will fit any small block including the Cleveland...
The '89-'97 T-Birds are totally different than the '88 earlier, virtually nothing will be a direct swap between the two...
Sorry, I was thinking '93 on the 4.6 because the Mk8 (On the MN-12 chassis) appeared in '93 with the 4.6.
The TBirds/Cougars didn't get them until '94.
Too bad the Birds & Cougs never had the 32 valve Intech version as a option...
the 4.6 showed up in the 94s cause 93 was the last year of the 5.0 in the birds and cougars
This will be alot of work to do. Almost be easier to find a Terminator engine and drop it in. Or even go for a lincoln mark 8 engine with the 4 cams and Teskid block.
yes it will be a lot of work, old school 850dp carb, fuel cell in the trunk, home fab headers, c6 trans, custom dash and gauges, no computer. It will be a fun sleeper street car, I only paid $350 for it and it is perfectly straight. No rust no dents and good interior, I know it would be much easer to put it in a 1970 Mustang but for the price I paid for it I couldn’t pass it up, I already have the engine and trans and needed a new project to work on anyway.
'93 Tbird for starts. It's a 351W, but you can get an idea for clearance.
3 more
And 3 more.
Thats a hot MN12. Quit making me nostalgic for my 92 SC.
Thats a sweet setup you have
I wish it was mine, but it's not.
thanks for the pics, you have a very nice car there, how mant ponys are you putting threw that 8.8 rearend? that is about the same thing i plan to do to mine, can i ask what size wheels and tires you are running, and if you like the size. my car is a lx 3.8 but i have a lincon mark 8 alluminum to put in after i put in a locker a gears, im thinking some were between 4.11 and 4.88. please tell me about your car what trans you run and what gear?
thanks Dan
i hit send and see its not your car, anyone here own one like it?
At the time awhile back, a co-worker had a '93 Tbird for sale, for fairly cheap. So I started to look at info on building one up. I found this car on car-domain, IIRC. Everything about it seemed right for what I wanted to do. Then my friend said he'd sell his '88 Tbird (for less $$$), and so I bought that one instead, and eventually the '87 that I'm working on now. I still have my eye out for a cheap 90's Tbird/Cougar to replace my Jeep for a DD. CL has them listed far more often than Fox versions.
i got mine in C L it was local $ 350 body in good shape with a bad head gasket.
ahhhhhhhh, the death of many 3.8s. But really not a too bad of a job, but its a good day of work, but at least you can tell what kind of shape your cylinder walls are in. Also good time to do some head work, like valve guides and seals.
im going to put the engine out of my truck in it.
351C stroked to 393
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_sp1MpupnU
Ohh yeah Clevlands rule!!!!!!!!!!!! All the custom stuff involved to install them kinda sucks though!! $500 for headers,350 for oilpan and pickup,1800 for aluminum heads,400 for intake, and so on and so forth!!!!!!!!!!! 11second t-bird PRICELESS!!!
I plan on fabricating my own headers from 2.125” u-bends and j-bends with 3.5” collectors, modifying a truck oil pan, and I will be running the closed chamber iron heads and the Holley strip dominator intake that is already on it.
Isn't the cleveland/modified much wider than a windsor? We have a 70 mustang at the shop now with a 351C and it dwarfs my 351W....I really don't see custom headers, or any headers for that matter fitting in there...I think it'll be one of those deals where you pull the motor to change spark plugs.
People think that just because a 4.6 fits that anything will fit...spark plugs are on top with the 4.6.
Just something to think about....
Good luck,
Don
PS-
I think life would be much easier with a Mustang II style front-end in it.
351M/400, 351C, and 351W all share the same lower block half dimensions (at least pretty darn close) so the only difference is deck height and head size. That said, the 351W and 351C aren't all that much different from each other, but usually every inch counts.
a mustang II front-end is somthing i have been thinking about but if it fits there will be no need for it.
Here is a link with the dimensions of ford engines, a Cleveland is only a ½” wider than a Windsor, about 20 years ago I had the engine in a 1965 mustang without any modifications to the shock towers, I used tubular automotive headers with 2” primaries and 3.5” collectors, it was a tight fit and it did fill the engine bay, but I could still change the plugs without pulling the engine, my 93 thunderbird dose have a larger engine bay than a 65 mustang, I haven’t found anyone that makes a set of headers for this combo but they all say the fox swap headers should fit, I can make my own headers for a lot less money than the fox headers that mite fit.
http://www.raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod/engine.html