General => General Fox T-Bird/Cougar Discussion => Topic started by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 01, 2010, 11:58:58 PM
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 01, 2010, 11:58:58 PM
i was on nato and started a post on if ford should bring back the turbo coupe like they did the SHO. i know if we have enough votes it can happen so if you could sign and spread the website around...face book, myspace, twitter, ect...get others to sign to, http://www.petitiononline.com/tbtc8788/petition.html
i have a brother in law who is part of SHO fourm and they had a big debate and the members on the forum were the biggest part of bring the SHO back, ford did it because they stood out and got noticed, if we can do the same thing. the turbo coupe can come back if we make a big deal and sign. plz guys
-sean
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 12:01:10 AM
i know it can happen just because i was there every step of the way.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 12:10:57 AM
comment if you signed
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 02, 2010, 12:15:49 AM
Signed. This would be too awesome, and you never know.
Perhaps they could have option to up the engine to a RWD SHO variant?....
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jangus on August 02, 2010, 12:20:23 AM
Frankly, looking at the sticker price of a new SHO, I can't even begin to imagine what the sticker on something like a limited production Turbocoupe would even begin at. No thanks.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 02, 2010, 01:02:51 AM
IMO, this is what people want. Look at all the commotion made over the new V6 mustang. And not just on here. You hear about it all over the place. And the Camaro too. One thing that people are in the market for right now, is for Fast, Efficient, and Stylish *American made* sports cars to come back.
Considering the SHO is one of the Ford badge's premium models, and it runs about $45,000, and the new Mustangs, being what they are, run between $23~34,000, I couldn't see this car being much more than $30~35,000. Consider what you would get in something like this, and put it against what you get now for the other cars. This would more than likely be some sort of middle ground between the two in terms of power, efficiency, luxury, and style, and you would probably get a pretty close mix in price.
The only thing that troubles me is that it probably would not make a good product right now for Ford, due to the fact that the Mustang has pretty much taken the pony car category for them, and the Fusion and Taurus are pulling in the personal luxury areas. If they were to remake the TC as a luxury sport coupe, reusing a rear drive variant of the SHO engine, but then making ride, handling, and interior (both space and comfort) the main priorties, and then market it to the same type of nostalgic crowd that bought all the new retro styled Challengers, then maybe. I think there are really a whole lot more people out there besides just us that would be ecstatic to see any kind of Thunderbird brought back.
And no doubt it would be exciting, but right now with the market in the condition its in, and all the flooding by other companies, it would definitely be tough to sell it in any case. And because of that its hard for me to see Ford being willing to take the risk of adding on any new model at all right now, especially considering the now official death of Mercury, which one could very easily take as a sign of downsizing. But...we can still try.
Hell, its kinda funny though, that it might even help to turn it into some kind of Lincoln variant. If Caddy can make the (beautiful) XLR from a Corvette Y-body, why not a TC style Mark IX from a stretched Mustang SN-197? Of course then you would definitely be getting into the serious $$ but a guy can dream:D
That's my opinion on the subject.:toilet:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Beau on August 02, 2010, 01:20:51 AM
(I say this with NO bias..) The only Thunderbird they will ever produce again (very doubtful) will be the 2 seater like we saw in the early '00's. Yeah, they made it, and yes, it sucked balls so hard even Jenna Jameson was impressed.
TurboCoupes came later....I seriously doubt Ford will even consider it. Not that I'd love to see it...but I sure will not hold my breath.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 02, 2010, 01:28:28 AM
In these times, it's going to be an impossible sell to Ford's top management to tool up a production run for another coupe. There really is not much of chance you will ever see a Taurus Coupe or a Fusion Coupe. Ford is also too protective of the sales figures of the Mustang to allow internal competition. In order to justify the expense of tooling up coupe specific parts there has to be a substantial demand for such a vehicle.
The revival of a newer Thunderbird has been held back because there is already the four seat Mustang coupe and convertible in the market. The original Mustang was developed as what the Ford designers wanted the 1958 Thunderbrid to be in the first place in before Thunderbirds went off into the personal luxury direction increasingly growing in size. Until the 1962 Fairlane came out with it's small block V8, Ford did not have a small enough V8 engine that could be packaged around a car the size of the original Mustang.
There was room for these multiple offerings from Ford back in the day. These days Ford is carefully running lean only offering models in top key market segments that guarentee sufficient sales volumes. We all know that the large coupe segment has been a bust since the mid-1990's.
Sure I would love to see Thunderbird revival. However the Tbird is ed as a two seater revival because the Mustang will consistantly outsell it in four seater form. The new Mustangs are virtually as big on the outside as our old Fox Thunderbirds. If Ford ever did bring back a two seat Thunderbird it will be priced so high that it will remain a rich man's toy just like the previous generation. The most likely senario is for a revived Tbird to compete in a four door "coupe" segment against the likes of similar models offered by Mercedes and VW. There is already a president for four door Tbirds as they were offered in the late 60's. However, people did not even buy those because they could get an LTD Broughman equipped similarly for a lower price. I would think the same thing could happen again where the Taurus would outsell a revived four door Tbird "coupe".
The Lincoln MKR concept was representitive of that possible model configuration. If it is ever decided that Lincoln will actually produce the MKR concept, it will more than likely go to Lincoln. I suppose a Tbird version could be spun off as well. Any hopes at all of a Tbird revival will depend on the next generation platform for the Mustang. Ford will definitely be careful to not upset the heritage of a RWD Thunderbird and they will never again hang the name on something that does not live up to that heritage and image. They will also not embarrass themselves by putting a Thunderbird name on something that will not sell well or fall short of expectations. It's bad enough so many people think that Ford discontinued the last Thunderbird because it failed to sell when in fact from the get go it was only conceived to be limited production car for a few years. The Windsor plant shut down which built the Tbird, Lincoln LS and Town Car, plus the Ford GT. Everything now days is being built in plants that utilize flexible production. We can also expect the Mustang to be untilizing more flexible production by sharing a common platform with possible future Ford and Lincoln models.
Cadillac is taking a big risk with their new CTS Coupe. If it sells, only then will Ford even consider competitive product if potential sales volumes justify it. The Thunderbird legacy has a lot of meaning to us of course, but it will be very difficult to sell a Thunderbird in these times when the lastest generation of people generally don't embrace the legacy of the Thunderbird image and name. The Mustang has been the image maker simply because it's performance roots have always been embraced by enthusiasts. The Mustang legacy has far eclipsed the Thunderbird and every other Ford model as Ford's most valuable icon. Most of the last couple of generations of four seat Tbirds and Cougars were sold to people who still embraced the image of a personal luxury coupe and not so much for the perfomance oriented Turbo Coupe and Super Coupe models. Most of those cars were sold in high volumes at affordable prices following the precedent that the 1977-79 Thunderbird set when they were moved to the Torino platform and the prices slashed by $2000 compared to the more expensive and much larger 1976 and earlier versions.
That segment of sales moved to SUV's and four door cars as large coupe sales plummeted. These days most people are not conditioned so much to care whether a car has four doors or not. However I will always have a preference for a two door coupe.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 09:13:19 AM
you have to have the right attitude about it. ford will decide when to sell it but the plan is to get this idea in there heads.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 02, 2010, 10:48:49 AM
The only idea in Ford's head right now is making money, and bringing back an obscure 80's automotive footnote is not the way to do so. You may see another Thunderbird some day (maybe even as a four-door, which has happened before), but I highly doubt you'll ever see another Turbo Coupe.
Come to think of it, a four-door T-Bird would be a pretty good idea, and more likely than any new coupe or even roadster version. Based on a next-gen Mustang platform (but looking entirely different from the Mustang) it'd help amortize the Mustang's costs, and a quick scan of any mall parking lot would show the idea worked quite well for Dodge (Charger). T-Bird fans couldn't even complain about a four-door 'Bird like the Dodge guys do with the Charger, because unlike the Charger, the T-Bird was available as a four-door in its long and varied past...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: RunninWild on August 02, 2010, 02:08:00 PM
signed. turbo 3.7 would be cool.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 02, 2010, 02:15:44 PM
The only reason the SHO name came back is because someone at Ford thought it was a better name than "Taurus EcoBoost".
Trust me you won't be seeing a new TC or even a Thunderbird any time soon.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Cougar8775 on August 02, 2010, 02:47:51 PM
signed.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: 83-88T-Bird Guy on August 02, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
I like the idea. However, if they mis-pr0nounce "Turbo Coupe" on the TV ads like they mispr0nounce S-H-O, then that would be a tragedy....
Why does the guy on TV call it a "SHOW"......WTF ???
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: T-BirdX3 on August 02, 2010, 04:09:15 PM
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;330424
I like the idea. However, if they mis-pr0nounce "Turbo Coupe" on the TV ads like they mispr0nounce S-H-O, then that would be a tragedy....
[FONT="Arial Black"]Why does the guy on TV call it a "SHOW[/FONT]"......WTF ???
Thats what I've always called them.... :(
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: HAVI on August 02, 2010, 05:37:17 PM
To the masses, the 60's are the collector car era (think Cudas and Chevelles at B&J auctions) of today. And the 80's are still cash for clunkers era. So I don't think there will be enough "push" for Ford to go spend on something like this, especially in today's market. We are a select few who like these cars, and nobody else does. As an example, remember that Audi site that bashed on the Cougar? Well, that's just one. Ask any joe-blow in a coffee shop or college, and likely they'll say, a turbo-wha?
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 07:17:40 PM
bringing a tc back means 2 door not 4 door, when i say bring back the turbo coupe i mean 2 door, there is no reason for a 4 door, thats completely off topic, they arnt going to think about a 4 door Thunderbird from the 60's. we are talking about late 80's. i said it once and ill say it again, ford will listen if you want it back we just need to make a big deal about it and show them we are interested, the same with the SHO guys, it took two years of wanting something before it happened. we have to push for it, not come up with excuses, its eather you want it or you dont. i cant do this alone...so if we are going to make big and be one of the biggest car enthusiasts out there or we can point fingers and not try, the SHO guys are the biggest out there, my bro in law is one SHO forum and there is always 50 ppl on at a time. they take care and like there cars, they live about there cars, they also have there SHO back...cant we strive for Fox Forums, NATO...ect. to be like that...so that maby we can have our turbo coupe back. come on guys...lets do something and make fox body's known
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jandmmustangs on August 02, 2010, 07:29:30 PM
Its a great idea man, and trust me I'd love to see it happen. However, I think there is a better chance of playing pick up sticks with your butt than seeing a "new" turbo coupe anytime soon. You have to remember that the Taurus was already in production, albeit under the ford 500 nameplate. There was no way ford was going to kill off their mid sized sedan, so the retooling was done. Obviously the SHO was then a viable option. What you're talking about would cost millions and millions of dollars in R&D and tooling costs, not to mention the EPA , NTSB safety , etc. Personally I cant see Ford making a move like this to satisfy a few thousand enthusiasts. They have too much to lose right now and will stick to the cars that sell. Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Mustang, F-Series. Anyway, Best of luck with your endevor.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 02, 2010, 07:36:51 PM
I'm confused as to what you are wanting Ford to do
A few thing I would like to note 1. Ford is not going to do anything that is not going to make them money 2. The current SHO shares very little with the original SHO other than it's name . 3.I just don't understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Chuck W on August 02, 2010, 08:51:15 PM
Why don't you put all of this energy onto working on your car?
A new TurboCoupe isn't going to happen...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 10:48:56 PM
im trying to get the tc back whats so hard to understand and i know ford wont do any thing that wont make them money. but the thing is there is a good chance a tc will sell, in 1987 to 88 (remember 2 years) out sold the SHO in every generation. the car will make money, ppl are buying fun cars again, think about the new camaro, ppl are buying and using the 6 speed manual trans, so i dont understand were all of the problems are coming from. and the Taurus was out for a few mouths be for the SHO model was available.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 02, 2010, 11:01:35 PM
So basically you want Ford to start building 87/88 style Turbo Coupes again?
If that is the plan , good luck in your endeavor
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 02, 2010, 11:08:33 PM
Quote from: 83-88T-Bird Guy;330424
I like the idea. However, if they mis-pr0nounce "Turbo Coupe" on the TV ads like they mispr0nounce S-H-O, then that would be a tragedy....
Why does the guy on TV call it a "SHOW"......WTF ???
it goes both ways
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Chuck W on August 02, 2010, 11:10:46 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330496
im trying to get the tc back whats so hard to understand
No, I understand that you're very excitable.
The only way you'll see a "turbocoupe" from Ford is if they put the Eco-Boost motor from the SHO into the Mustang.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 02, 2010, 11:14:03 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330445
the same with the SHO guys, it took two years of wanting something before it happened.
The SHO was easy for Ford to revive since they already had a four door production bread and butter Taurus sedans planned that they could base it from. This revival did not depend on tooling up an entire special platform, body design or working around an expensive and exclusive Yamaha engine. They just added a performance package based on the new engine families that were already being planned to use in other Ford and Lincoln vehicles. Ford chose the SHO name again to cash in on potential sales because it has meaning to enthusiasts which is better than saying it's just a Taurus Sport. Ford has done the same thing by puposely making a new engine that displaces 5 liters, installing it in Mustang GT's and calling it a 5.0.
I have long ago accepted the fact that the Thunderbird may never again be revived as a large coupe. The original packaging and concept of the first 1958 Thunderbird four seater lives on in the new Mustangs and adding another Thunderbird packaged the same way is too redundant. If Ford had chosen to name the original Mustang as a Thunderbird instead then perhaps the Thunderbird nameplate would enjoy the permanence in the Ford lineup that the Mustang has today. There cannot be frivolous redundancies with the new leaner FoMoCo in this day and age. Ford cannot afford to please every little niche enthusiast. For instance there are always going to be the ones that say they want the Galaxie, Fairlane or Torino revived. There are also plenty of people that love the Mercury Cougar and want it revived but look at what happened with the shut down of the Mercury division. I say the only way anyone will ever get a new Ford Turbo Coupe is to find it installed in a future Mustang.
Title: more mental masturbation
Post by: t3skidoo on August 02, 2010, 11:45:51 PM
IF ... IF! Ford decided to do another T-Bird, what's the end game?
But lets say they followed the concept. Take the new Mustang platform, add a couple of inches to the wheelbase, bump up the interior amenities, put in a bad-ass motor, maybe include an IRS and/or AWD. What's next?
The exterior - what would the external styling be, 50's retro? 60's retro? Contemporary? Modern? I seriously doubt it would look anything like any of ours. It might be a shape that's enticing, seductive, avant garde, bold and amazing, but I seriously doubt it will look anything like ours.
Economics - IIRC, the Mustang was >$10K, GT's ~$11K, SVO ~$14K. T-Birds were a few $K more. TCs based around $13K, most stickered around $16K. That's approximately 50% more than a Mustang, 20%-30% more than a GT. Depending on how you follow the concept above, you're talking about a baseline $40K-$60K sticker price for a "new" TC.
What can you buy for that kind of money? What's the target audience? Back in the day, the TC pretty much was a poor-man's BMW 6 series. Is there a market for that now? The personal luxury car market is a lot more crowded than it was 20 years ago, mostly with German coupes, but there's also a lot more from the Pacific Rim to consider.
Which brings us to my point (echoing ChuckW). A few years ago I started looking for a new car. Couldn't find anything that I wanted, and nothing that I could afford looked as good as my TC did when it was new. So I set out a plan and a budget to update mine - a what-if modern-day TC like Ford would do if they built it today (optioned out the way I want, of course). Sadly, it's taking a longer to do than Ford took, but then I don't have the manpower they do either.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 12:08:49 AM
Quote from: t3skidoo;330503
Which brings us to my point (echoing ChuckW). A few years ago I started looking for a new car. Couldn't find anything that I wanted, and nothing that I could afford looked as good as my TC did when it was new. So I set out a plan and a budget to update mine - a what-if modern-day TC like Ford would do if they built it today (optioned out the way I want, of course). Sadly, it's taking a longer to do than Ford took, but then I don't have the manpower they do either.
A few years ago I knew I wanted a new car. I wanted it to be a Ford. I knew it had to be a Mustang or a Tbird because these are the cars I owned before that I really loved. Even till this day there are no other cars on the market that make me feel passion or make me think I gotta have it, unless I upgrade to a newer more powerful Mustang. The only other passions I have are for a few select older Fords.
I had two choices I considered. Buy a 05+ Mustang or buy a used 02-05 Thunderbird. It was easier for me to buy the Mustang. After spending time with the new Mustangs on test drives and pondering over them for a significant amount of time, I came to the conclusion that I really loved the new Mustangs. Of course like the retromodern styling. When I got my hands on the actual car I bought, I found a little of every Ford I ever liked in one package. The classic Mustang look was a given. The fact that my car is white with rocker stripes reminded me of the first car I had which was a 1976 Cobra II with blue stripes. The fastback roof design makes me feel what I feel when I see Mustang and Torino fastbacks of the late 60's and early 70's. I had even forgone the expense of a convertible because I really liked the fastback roof design and isolated rear quarter window treatment like the original 1965-68 models used which is a visual trademark like no other. The interior has a Ford family look from the 1960's which is not just Mustang specific but also related to other Ford model instrumentation designs of the 1960's. The dual cowl dash pad originated in Thunderbirds and Falcons before they were used in Mustangs. Yes Ford still has a representation of several great Fords available in one package combined.
My 1984 Tbird fell in my lap free of charge from my parents who were just letting it rot in their driveway. I had been after them for several years to let me take it and restore it to glory instead of sping it. It is a sure save. It has been a labor of love so far to work on this car and make it my vision and interpetation of what my composite Tbird can be. I am most pleased with my dash swap especially how it related to the dual cowl dash theme of the 1958-63 Tbird models. I think of this Tbird as significant as the classic 1949 Ford Coupe which remarkably resembles a lot of the same rounded shapes and forms. If anyone can take a 1949 model and restore it to perfection then it's much easier to do it now with my Tbird with the parts availibality. This project for me has the same passion as anyone restoring a much older classic.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Beau on August 03, 2010, 02:24:04 AM
I think there's more chance of this thread getting locked than Ford ever making a Thunderbird again. :flip:
Here's one for ya...I tell most people I have a thunderbird for a project car....most ask: "is it a 55 or 57?"
An '88, they ask? Why would you do that?
...They have no idea in hell of what an '88 Tbird looks like. I tell 'em it's basically a Mustang GT with a shagier body and a slightly bigger interior. But that magic is lost, nobody really gives a shiznit about the later years of Thunderbirds (and Cougars) than a select few who are very probably slightly crazy or else...;)
Here's some more worthless words...we have 350-something active members.....there's probably not more than 1500 or 2,000 people who in the USA who even give more than a mouse turd about Fox body birds.
Personally, I don't want Ford making an exact clone of the '87-'88 TC's.....they're an uncommon niche car, and I want it to stay that way.
There's also a real good reason large 2 door coupes are a very limited market.....for Ford, that reason is a seven letter word and it starts with an M and ends with ustang.
Face it dude, monkeys will fly out your ass before we ever see a new TurboCoupe that's also called Thunderbird. Ain't gonna happen.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 03:43:02 AM
Quote from: ThunderbirdSport302;330520
Here's one for ya...I tell most people I have a thunderbird for a project car....most ask: "is it a 55 or 57?" An '88, they ask? Why would you do that?
Yeah I love the kind of smirk arrogant reaction that some people have when I disclose that I am not restoring a 66 or earlier... However after many people have seen exactly what I have been doing I get a lot of positive feedback. You really cannot go wrong with a clean design that aged well with the potential to have a perfect black paint job and a really interesting and unusual interior.
Quote
I tell 'em it's basically a Mustang GT with a shagier body and a slightly bigger interior. But that magic is lost, nobody really gives a shiznit about the later years of Thunderbirds (and Cougars) than a select few who are very probably slightly crazy or else...;)
I don't think any of us are crazy. At some point people began preserving other older cars at a time when they were a dime a dozen. We have just begun to start now what could be an expanded legacy for classic Tbirds and Cougars in the future. The Fox generation is quite significant in my book.
As far as the Fox Mustangs go... There was never anything shagy about them. I never even wanted one because they were nothing but boxes that looked like they would have served better as a 80's replacement for a Pinto. Matter of fact with the basic package and drivetrain of 4-cyl models they indeed took over where the Pinto left off while using a more desireable nameplate. The Aero Birds and Cats brought back shagy to Ford in a time there was nothing shagy to speak of until the 1994 Mustang came along. The only merit of Fox Mustangs was the 5.0 and SVO in strictly functional performance packages. They were just never much to look at, especially considering 80's Camaros and Firebirds were shagier, low slung and Ferrari-like in styling. That is why I ended up with 4 GM F-body cars until the 1994 Mustang came out. I did not even want an Aero Tbird or Cougar at the time. It was not until 1997 when I bought a used 1985 Tbird because I wanted something that felt as close as possible to the 1994 Mustang convertible that I had to give up and sell because of some financial woes at the time.
Quote
Personally, I don't want Ford making an exact clone of the '87-'88 TC's.....they're an uncommon niche car, and I want it to stay that way.
No need to clone those cars for the same reason no one wants to clone the tri-year 55-57 Chevys. I feel that any new Thunderbird if it was to ever happen would do like it has always done in Tbird history and that is be a halo model that showcases advance styling themes which would bleed over to lesser models. However, since there is no Tbird now, we are seeing other vehicles in the Ford lineup become the test bed for newer styling themes.
Retro is mostly done for future Mustangs. I feel there will always be some proportions and elements that define a Mustang, but slowly Ford will step away from some design elements and try new details in order to advance the styling just like they evolved the 1965 model to the 1973 model.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 04:13:37 AM
Quote from: t3skidoo;330503
Economics - IIRC, the Mustang was >$10K, GT's ~$11K, SVO ~$14K. T-Birds were a few $K more. TCs based around $13K, most stickered around $16K. That's approximately 50% more than a Mustang, 20%-30% more than a GT. Depending on how you follow the concept above, you're talking about a baseline $40K-$60K sticker price for a "new" TC.
What can you buy for that kind of money? What's the target audience? Back in the day, the TC pretty much was a poor-man's BMW 6 series. Is there a market for that now? The personal luxury car market is a lot more crowded than it was 20 years ago, mostly with German coupes, but there's also a lot more from the Pacific Rim to consider.
The last generation Tbirds were selling for around $40k plus. When the new 05 Mustang came along they could be had at a base price of around 20K. Add 5K for a convertible and another 5K for a GT. That put a well equipped Mustang at $30K. Since the 2010 Mustang came out, the average prices are about 5K higher than before, so Most well equipped Mustangs now are between 28-35K. New Tauruses are maxing out at about 40K. Any new Thunderbird would certainly be placed at that price point and beyond into Lincoln pricing territory.
I have bought my last new car. My 08 Mustang stickered for 25K. With all the incentives, rebates and a little cash down I got it down to 18K. I used no trade in. I cannot imagine paying around 30K for any new Mustang. I will keep this one and maintain it for as long as I want to. There are too many nice cars that can be had used for a lot less money and just having a passion for some older cars gives me an incentive to never look for another new car.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: ProTouring442 on August 03, 2010, 07:34:13 AM
Quote from: Watchdevil;330362
In these times, it's going to be an impossible sell to Ford's top management to tool up a production run for another coupe. There really is not much of chance you will ever see a Taurus Coupe or a Fusion Coupe.
Cadillac is taking a big risk with their new CTS Coupe. If it sells, only then will Ford even consider competitive product if potential sales volumes justify it.
Most of the last couple of generations of four seat Tbirds and Cougars were sold to people who still embraced the image of a personal luxury coupe and not so much for the perfomance oriented Turbo Coupe and Super Coupe models.
Considering the Thunderbird was supposed to be an upmarket Ford, I am not so sure there is no room for a coupe. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, all sell coupes, and so the CTS coupe makes a lot of sense. Position the "new" Thunderbird to compete with these vehicles, but at a lower price, and advertise it as such and I think it could sell.
Personally, I think there could also be a 4-door version, but it would have to be sporty. I think there is a lot of room in BMW's market if you can compete on quality and performance but at a lower price.
Shiny Side Up! Bill
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 01:00:48 PM
what ever, i want to see were this is going to end up, im still going to push it but what ever happens, happens
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 01:10:05 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330553
what ever, i want to see were this is going to end up, im still going to push it but what ever happens, happens
Hey I completely understand your passion!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 01:15:46 PM
Quote from: ProTouring442;330532
Considering the Thunderbird was supposed to be an upmarket Ford, I am not so sure there is no room for a coupe. Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, all sell coupes, and so the CTS coupe makes a lot of sense. Position the "new" Thunderbird to compete with these vehicles, but at a lower price, and advertise it as such and I think it could sell.
Personally, I think there could also be a 4-door version, but it would have to be sporty. I think there is a lot of room in BMW's market if you can compete on quality and performance but at a lower price.
Shiny Side Up! Bill
I think with Ford's new found commitment and increased perception of it's latest offerings then it's entirely possible that Ford could add a Tbird to compete with those more expensive luxury offerings at a lower price. After all, that lower price point is what is attracting people to the current batch of Fords loaded with great features. That was also a formula that worked for the Tbird in the past by lowering the price point. I am just afraid right now Ford is more concerned with the Lincoln revitalization now that they have a solid lineup of Ford models in place and that likely leaves the Tbird remaining on the back burner while Lincoln will be strengthened by recieving such a model first with the likes of an MKR concept.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: oldraven on August 03, 2010, 02:16:08 PM
Keep in mind that most people now think a Mustang is too big, as a two door, and a Camaro or Challenger is gigantic. A Thunderbird would rust on the lot right now, I'm afraid. Car companies aren't that interested in what people who own used cars want.
But, if Ford ever built another Thunderbird, it sure as hell wouldn't be another two seater. Neither car sold! It was a failed model then, and it was in the following century. The Thunderbirds that made Ford money had four seats, and two (or four) doors, and way too much sheet-metal.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 03, 2010, 02:49:17 PM
If every single member of this forum, NATO, TCCOA and even SCCOA not only signed that petition but wrote Ford a check right now, Ford would not bring back any Thunderbird, much less a Turbo Coupe, that was even remotely similar to these 80's Birds. That is simply a fact. Passionate though you may be, you are wasting your time, especially if you are unwilling to accept anything but a repop 80's Bird.
If, and I must emphasize that "IF", there is any new T-Bird in the future I see it being a four-door, perhaps based on the Mustang or perhaps based on the Falcon (though GM's little GTO experiment pretty much assured the latter ain't gonna happen). I can envision the car has being a "four door coupe", with a roof line similar to the Mercedes CLS or even the new Sonata.
GM can get away with the CTS Coupe, and Mercedes and BMW can get away with their SL's and 6-series (and 3 series) because they already have four door versions of the cars that make them loads of money, so there is room in their dealerships for a few less-profitable, slower selling Coupes (and Wagons). The lost revenue on those few coupes is worth it to have the halo effect those coupes bring. Ford does not have such a luxury, because they do not have a suitable platform to build such a Coupe on. If Ford ever decides tobring some Aussie platforms over, they sure as hell ain't gonna waste that engineering money on a two-door, especially a two-door aimed at fans of obscure and never-particularly-successful 80's Thunderbirds. Basing another Ford badged coupe on the Mustang would be redundant (though I still think an S197-based Cougar would've saved Mercury).
The long-and-the-short of it: If you ever see another RWD Ford besides the Mustang, it'll have four doors. It might have a turbo (ecoboost), but it would not be a Turbo Coupe.
Face it, sunshine: The TC we all know and love is gone, and it is not coming back. Ever.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 03:42:01 PM
Quote from: oldraven;330568
But, if Ford ever built another Thunderbird, it sure as hell wouldn't be another two seater. Neither car sold! It was a failed model then, and it was in the following century. The Thunderbirds that made Ford money had four seats, and two (or four) doors, and way too much sheet-metal.
Thunderbirds gained it's widespead popularity with the 1958 model with four seats which gave people with dreams much needed practicality.
Really the 2002-05 Thunderbird only served to appease those elitists that wanted a new version of the 1955-57 models. As I keep saying the Thunderbird lives on now as a Mustang convertible. There is just no room for another two seat roadster when the Mustang will continually outsell it with a back seat.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 03, 2010, 03:49:28 PM
I still haven't figured out why it was that ford decided to ditch the 10 extra years of legacy of the Tbird in favor of killing it and keeping the mustang. Yeah, yeah, it was a "downsizing" venture, and we all know that the mustangs sold better than the birds.
But, if anyone else recalls, the fox body mustang almost disappeared in favor of the *probe*. But, when a bunch of -Enthusiasts- wrote and petitioned Ford to keep the mustang and not turn it into that P.O.S, what did they do? Redesigned it and kept it on the same platform for another 5 years, and its still around today. Then, 4 years later, they kill the mn12s.
Too bad nobody did this when they first killed off the cats and birds, or perhaps when they "brought them back", and too bad that kind of customer oriented service wouldn't apply today.
oh yeah and
Quote from: Watchdevil;330362
...Taurus Coupe or a Fusion Coupe.
= :yuck:
Quote from: Watchdevil;330522
I don't think any of us are crazy. At some point people began preserving other older cars at a time when they were a dime a dozen. We have just begun to start now what could be an expanded legacy for classic Tbirds and Cougars in the future. The Fox generation is quite significant in my book.
As far as the Fox Mustangs go... There was never anything shagy about them. I never even wanted one because they were nothing but boxes that looked like they would have served better as a 80's replacement for a Pinto. Matter of fact with the basic package and drivetrain of 4-cyl models they indeed took over where the Pinto left off while using a more desireable nameplate. The Aero Birds and Cats brought back shagy to Ford in a time there was nothing shagy to speak of until the 1994 Mustang came along. The only merit of Fox Mustangs was the 5.0 and SVO in strictly functional performance packages. They were just never much to look at, especially considering 80's Camaros and Firebirds were shagier, low slung and Ferrari-like in styling. That is why I ended up with 4 GM F-body cars until the 1994 Mustang came out. I did not even want an Aero Tbird or Cougar at the time. It was not until 1997 when I bought a used 1985 Tbird because I wanted something that felt as close as possible to the 1994 Mustang convertible that I had to give up and sell because of some financial woes at the time.
Couldn't have said it better myself;) They might as well have called it the RWD Escort. I have always been a fan of mustangs, from the very beginning up till now, but the fox ones, especially the earlier four-eyed ones, just have never appealed to me. If they're at shows, I only pay attention if heavy (exterior) modding is involved. But thats just my opinion - none of you mustang guys go getting upset now.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: bike70ride on August 03, 2010, 05:29:25 PM
My little sister had an Escort EXP (remember those?). Looked a lot like a Fox Mustang...so much so she got comments quite frequently saying "I like your Musting". :p
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 06:45:47 PM
This is sean's brother in law. I did sign the TC petition. It would be nice to see it again. I've noticed the people on this forum are not very proactive or positive about bringing a car they love back. As a member of the sho community I can say that we were a big part of ford bringing back the sho. They even said so in a article, We did alot to make it happen but it worked. Since then we had ford save an all aluminum sho powered sable that was destined to be crushed from Canada. They took it back and even brought it to our convention in Michigan this year. It will be in there museum we will see to that. If you try hard enough and talk to the right people it will happen. edsel ford walked around the parking lot the convention and looked at the new and older SHO's...ford does care
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 06:55:10 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;330584
I still haven't figured out why it was that ford decided to ditch the 10 extra years of legacy of the Tbird in favor of killing it and keeping the mustang. Yeah, yeah, it was a "downsizing" venture, and we all know that the mustangs sold better than the birds.
The MN-12 Thunderbirds and Cougars were very expensive cars to build with small profit margins. It was considered at one time to shorten the MN-12 chassis to provide a new Mustang but it would have made it too expensive and heavy. The MN-12's went out of production simply because production cost outweighed demand and they were at the end of their lifecycle and not worth the expense to redesign them without sufficient demand.
The 02-05 Tbirds were intended from the get go to be limited production vehicles of about 15-20 thousand a year for a limited number of years. As long as the Lincoln LS was available to base it on then it continued to exist. Yet again, Ford developed another platform that was too expensive to produce which was not yielding profitable results. All this happened at the time when Jac Nasser was running Ford into the ground with illusions of granduer that the market for high end luxury cars was stable and in high demand. Ford had bought up Volvo, Land Rover and Jaguar and largely ignored its own brand of vehicles. The only thing that mattered to Ford as a brand then was how many SUV's and trucks they could sell while everything else was left to neglect.
Both the Tbird and LS bowed out at the same time as the Wixom, MI plant was shut down. That plant was building too many different vehicles in an outdated assembly plant. It was too expensive and unprofitable to keep building those cars there.
Quote
if anyone else recalls, the fox body mustang almost disappeared in favor of the *probe*. But, when a bunch of -Enthusiasts- wrote and petitioned Ford to keep the mustang and not turn it into that P.O.S, what did they do? Redesigned it and kept it on the same platform for another 5 years, and its still around today. Then, 4 years later, they kill the mn12s.
The vast enthusiasm of Mustangs is so much greater than that of Tbirds it's no wonder it got saved. It has been proven by Probe sales that no one cared or even wanted them.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 03, 2010, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330615
This is sean's brother in law. I did sign the TC petition. It would be nice to see it again. I've noticed the people on this forum are not very proactive or positive about bringing a car they love back. As a member of the sho community I can say that we were a big part of ford bringing back the sho. They even said so in a article, We did alot to make it happen but it worked. Since then we had ford save an all aluminum sho powered sable that was destined to be crushed from Canada. They took it back and even brought it to our convention in Michigan this year. It will be in there museum we will see to that. If you try hard enough and talk to the right people it will happen. edsel ford walked around the parking lot the convention and looked at the new and older SHO's...ford does care
Not to be a Negative Nelly , but do you have a link to the article you mentioned ? As stated before it was not much of a stretch to re introduce the SHO name when they already had a Taurus on the market, but the new SHO is a totally different car as the old one . To bring the Turbo Coupe back they first would have to bring back the T-BIRD and most of us are being realistic , in this economy and time it aint gonna happen . And lets be honest how many people that are signing the petition are realistically going to buy a new Bird if they reintroduced it .
I wish y'all well in your quest , but I wouldn't hold my breath
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 03, 2010, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;330584
But, if anyone else recalls, the fox body mustang almost disappeared in favor of the *probe*. But, when a bunch of -Enthusiasts- wrote and petitioned Ford to keep the mustang and not turn it into that P.O.S, what did they do? Redesigned it and kept it on the same platform for another 5 years, and its still around today.
The level of enthusiasm for the Mustang is way greater than it has ever been for Tbirds ..if you need an example take a look at how many Mustang internet forums there are as opposed to Tbird ones . Ford got a mountain of letters concerning the car that became the Probe. Ad much as it hurts to admit it The Mustang has more fans than the Bird , personally I like em both :D
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: daminc on August 03, 2010, 07:24:51 PM
I would much rather see a retro version of a 69-70 Eliminator my self. Other then that. I have no need to see anything from the 70s or 80s return.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 07:56:21 PM
Quote from: hypostang;330619
The level of enthusiasm for the Mustang is way greater than it has ever been for Tbirds ..if you need an example take a look at how many Mustang internet forums there are as opposed to Tbird ones . Ford got a mountain of letters concerning the car that became the Probe. Ad much as it hurts to admit it The Mustang has more fans than the Bird , personally I like em both :D
yea dude we know ever since the mustang came out there has been tons of followers but lets stay on topic shall we, not to hate on mustangs but there are so many out there that it inset impressive any more, i like mustangs but to be honest the bird is a trip away from a mustang. witch makes it in a weird way better in my opinion. i like the stang but there every were. but t-birds did sell and why are you making the whole bring back the tbird thing back like its going to be hard to do and to south you friend they dont have to do it at THIS time. the perpous of signing that thing is get get the idea started and rolling and seeing were it goes ill search for the link for the SHO atical and post it for those who dont believe. see ya in a bit.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 03, 2010, 08:24:11 PM
I've seen the article with my own eyes, and as many people have pointed out, Ford already had a car on which to place those SHO badges. And while SHO enthusiasts may claim that they made the SHO badges reappear, I would bet they had little, if anything at all, to do with the actual Ecoboost Taurus being built. As somebody pointed out, the only thing SHO enthusiasts did was convince Ford to call the car the SHO instead of the Ecoboost Taurus. And even still, I wouldn't put to much weight into that - it was probably Ford's intention all along, but they played up to the SHO enthusiasts so they could say "We listened to the enthusiasts" in their marketing.
And the fact that there are many more Mustangs out there than Birds only proves why the Mustang still exists and the Bird doesn't. People actually bought (and still buy) Mustangs. The T-Bird sold, yes, but it never sold well. Aside from 1977-1979 the Bird never sold in any huge numbers. The only reason it existed from 1980-1988 was because it was another way to sell an existing platform (Fox). It would not have survived on its own then, just as the MN12 didn't survive the 90's, and just as a new one wouldn't survive now.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 08:42:32 PM
heres one link\\\ http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100719935
ill be back with more
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 03, 2010, 08:48:08 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330621
yea dude we know ever since the mustang came out there has been tons of followers but lets stay on topic shall we, not to hate on mustangs but there are so many out there that it inset impressive any more, i like mustangs but to be honest the bird is a trip away from a mustang. witch makes it in a weird way better in my opinion. i like the stang but there every were. but t-birds did sell and why are you making the whole bring back the tbird thing back like its going to be hard to do and to south you friend they dont have to do it at THIS time. the perpous of signing that thing is get get the idea started and rolling and seeing were it goes ill search for the link for the SHO atical and post it for those who dont believe. see ya in a bit.
Ok I think I can make sense of this post ..maybe
I was on topic , I was referring to the letter writing campaign in the 1980s that kept the Mustang from becoming a Mazda based FWD car , And I never said I didn't believe there was an article I said I wanted to read it And I totally agree with Thunder Chicken's post above this one :D
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 03, 2010, 08:48:20 PM
Quote from: Sean Story\1988TURBO;330626
heres one link\\\ http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEWS/100719935
ill be back with more
"The article requested can not be found!"
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jandmmustangs on August 03, 2010, 09:15:47 PM
Quote from: daminc;330620
I would much rather see a retro version of a 69-70 Eliminator my self. Other then that. I have no need to see anything from the 70s or 80s return.
As close as I can get for ya.:mullet:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 09:34:18 PM
Quote from: Watchdevil;330628
"The article requested can not be found!"
what do you mean it work fine on my end even if i click on the link i posted
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 03, 2010, 09:35:42 PM
deeaamn...hidden headlights and all:grinno:
I had the same problem with link
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 11:49:08 PM
ill check it
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 03, 2010, 11:51:09 PM
Quote from: jandmmustangs;330631
As close as I can get for ya.:mullet:
thats pretty mean looking actually lol
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 04, 2010, 12:10:36 AM
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: oldraven on August 04, 2010, 10:08:12 AM
Has anyone mentioned yet that this is not the first time we've all seen a 'Bring back the Turbo-Coupe' petition make its rounds on the internet? I even signed the first one. That's when I realised we, the used car enthusiast, have ZERO influence on automakers, no matter what Ford's marketing department told you. If you want proof, ask the Pontiac guys how the new Firebird is looking.
The SHO is a Ford Flex in a sedan body. All Ford cares about in that regard is selling the Ecoboost, not bringing back the SHO (how about that awesome automatic transmission). They had the car, they had the newly created powerplant. This is not the same as bringing back the Turbo T-bird.
The story about (new) Mustang owners writing Ford letters over the Probe issue is also off base. The car was still in production, and Ford found another way to use the Mazda they invested in. This would be like us writing to Ford to ask them to keep the current Explorer going another few years and asking them to call the uni-body replacement a Bronco, or something. The lines are still running.
All of that said, we have to remember that the car companies of the 80's are gone. They've learned big lessons about taking expensive risks on small-volume sellers. They want to build cars they know will sell, in hot segments, with long term returns. The Bill Ford Jr.s that build pointless little dream-cruisers like the retro-Thunderbird are gone for good (which is a good thing).
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Beau on August 04, 2010, 01:47:52 PM
All these references to the Mustang-Probe debacle should not really be considered...
Mustang was, is, and will always be Ford's #1 car. Ford knew they'd stand to lose a LOT of money if they gave us a front drive Mustang...fact is, I'm still surprised they ever admitted the Probe was a possible replacement. Dumb...
If Thunderbirds had ever sold as well a Mustangs, why would they stop making them?
It's nice to have passion, have hope, but most of us here are realists as well. The reality is that there will never be a TurboCoupe as we know it. Probably highly unlikely we'll also ever see another production Thunderbird.
And I'm betting if we do, it'll have a backseat and at least a 5.0 liter V8. But as I said in one of my previous posts in this very thread, I'm not holding my breath.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 04, 2010, 03:25:43 PM
Quote from: oldraven;330682
The story about (new) Mustang owners writing Ford letters over the Probe issue is also off base. The car was still in production, and Ford found another way to use the Mazda they invested in. This would be like us writing to Ford to ask them to keep the current Explorer going another few years and asking them to call the uni-body replacement a Bronco, or something. The lines are still running. .
All these references to the Mustang-Probe debacle should not really be considered...(Thunderbirdsport302 )
Agreed It is not the same type of situation , but I believe it was referenced as an example of a letter writing campaign having an effect . At least it was in my posts :D I was working for Ford back when the Probe controversy was going on and I honestly believe Ford paid attention to the letters based on the pure volume of letters and the fact that the Mustang was a successful vehicle. So in that case they just left the Status Quo.
In this case (as well as the SHO ) I don't think Ford honestly cares what a bunch of used car owners think , I do not doubt that the marketing department may have mentioned the SHO owner club/forum But only as a way of saying "We Care", which I put as much weight in as a politician saying "Trust Me " As I said before Good luck with this campaign, but I don't see it having any effect .
Title: @ various
Post by: t3skidoo on August 04, 2010, 10:56:39 PM
To the OP, I'd like to hear your response to my first post. I wasn't specifically arguing against your position, rather trying to look at it from a rational business perspective.
Watchdevil, Thanks for the photoshop pics. I've long considered doing a Cougar fastback, never seen one. IMO the Challenger-looking Cougar is fugly. Now, the black one, that has possiblilities.
and
Maybe one way to have a "Thunderbird" would be for Ford to do a 2dr Taurus and call it a T-Bird. They might even be able to squeeze new a new front end and tail lights into the deal.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jangus on August 05, 2010, 12:50:16 AM
t3skidoo, good luck with that. I tried the rational business side approach on NATO and all I got was total ignorance and 15 year old attitude. At this point he's just beating a really dead horse.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 05, 2010, 01:52:13 AM
Some MKR Based Tbird concepts...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 05, 2010, 01:55:04 AM
Some Iosis Concept based Tbird concepts...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 05, 2010, 01:56:30 AM
427 Concept based Tbird concepts...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 05, 2010, 02:01:55 AM
Rear shots 427 style...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 05, 2010, 02:03:20 AM
What we are most likely to see happen...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Scott D on August 05, 2010, 06:50:42 AM
As much as I would like to see a RWD Thunderbird, again, I would rock a Two-door Tortoise-based Thunderbird, if they did the personal luxury car thing right, with it.
And for those that say, "....it ain't gonna happen, there's not enough of us," America's fight for independence was organized, funded, and fought by less than 1% of the population. Look what happened ;)
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jkirchman on August 05, 2010, 12:20:36 PM
Star Trek fans organized a letter writing campaign and got NASA to change the name of the first prototype space shuttle orbiter from Constitution to Enterprise. Just sayin'.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Chuck W on August 05, 2010, 03:28:11 PM
Quote from: Scott D;330819
And for those that say, "....it ain't gonna happen, there's not enough of us," America's fight for independence was organized, funded, and fought by less than 1% of the population. Look what happened ;)
Talk about comparing apples to asparagus...
Quote from: jkirchman;330842
Star Trek fans organized a letter writing campaign and got NASA to change the name of the first prototype space shuttle orbiter from Constitution to Enterprise. Just sayin'.
Yes, Jim, but that was just a name. No letter writing campaign is going to get Ford to spend money on something that they don't feel will make money. These days, it's all about the bottom line.
I'm just interested in the EcoBoost engine...that would be yummy in the '83.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: jangus on August 05, 2010, 03:48:35 PM
Instead of trying to get Ford to to manufacture a new TurboCoupe, we should be petioning Ford to offer the Ecoboost engine in a "crate kit" like Chevy has started doing with the LSx series of engines. Would make for a heck of power boost, and be emmisions legal, just like the Chevy LSx crate kit. That would be yummy in any year TC.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: no911forme on August 05, 2010, 04:06:01 PM
signed up... :burnout:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: RunninWild on August 05, 2010, 05:21:04 PM
Quote from: jangus;330856
we should be petioning Ford to offer the Ecoboost engine in a "crate kit" .
That would be amazing!!!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 05, 2010, 06:15:17 PM
I just read the other day that the Coyote is now offered as a kit, somewhere around $6500
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 05, 2010, 07:26:31 PM
Quote from: Watchdevil;330809
427 Concept based Tbird concepts...
That is definitely what I would expect something rational to look like
Quote from: Chuck W;330854
Yes, Jim, but that was just a name.
Exactly! What is it everyone has been saying all along about the SHO's??? There was an existing platform that they threw the badge on. Well, OK! What is so wrong with that?
Of course Ford is not going to design and attempt to sell a brand new car just for us rednecks. But, when they do design something AWESOME and they're looking for a name, maybe somewhere in the back of their heads they'll remember what we did, and at least call it a Thunderbird. Look at the new SHOs...the new Mauraders...the new Camaros...the new Chargers! They had nothing to do with their classic counterparts, but the name still carried on the legacy to a really deserving car.
I would be proud to drive just about anything called a thunderbird, as long as it was done right. You can't expect another retro car, but maybe, just maybe, we could still do something to get the legacy to carry on.
And for all the time and effort that everyone has spent bashing the idea, one could have taken the 30 easy seconds to sign it 15 times already. I don't know what there is to lose.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 05, 2010, 07:37:58 PM
Except, sarjxxx, that the OP has pretty much made it clear he'll accept nothing but a copy of the 80's TC. And that, as pointed out many times, is not going to happen.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Beau on August 06, 2010, 02:06:06 AM
Yes...reminds me of "He Who Shall Not Be Named" or for some that don't remember..."IGAH"
You him? :punchballs::rollin:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 06, 2010, 09:35:58 AM
Quote from: sarjxxx;330879
That is definitely what I would expect something rational to look like
I loved the 427 Concept when it first came out. I did the chops of this one and made it a Tbird. The look of the 427 Concept reminded me of LTD II's made from 1977-79 which the same year Thunderbirds were based on. So I chopped it a two door and really liked it.
However, as a new production concept for today and now it looks dated and Ford's design themes within five years or so have evolved into what we see influnced by the Interceptor concept. So any newer Thunderbird design would certainly be bolder.
It's fustrating dealing with the fact that a Tbird revival may not come anytime soon if at all. We just have to accept that it may never happen. If Ford made the right Tbird again there would likely be two sitting in our driveway. Right now we just enjoy our Mustang and Fusion while I stuggle over restoration of the 84 Tbird I have.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Sean Story\1988TURBO on August 06, 2010, 01:20:32 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;330879
That is definitely what I would expect something rational to look like
Exactly! What is it everyone has been saying all along about the SHO's??? There was an existing platform that they threw the badge on. Well, OK! What is so wrong with that?
Of course Ford is not going to design and attempt to sell a brand new car just for us rednecks. But, when they do design something AWESOME and they're looking for a name, maybe somewhere in the back of their heads they'll remember what we did, and at least call it a Thunderbird. Look at the new SHOs...the new Mauraders...the new Camaros...the new Chargers! They had nothing to do with their classic counterparts, but the name still carried on the legacy to a really deserving car.
I would be proud to drive just about anything called a thunderbird, as long as it was done right. You can't expect another retro car, but maybe, just maybe, we could still do something to get the legacy to carry on.
And for all the time and effort that everyone has spent bashing the idea, one could have taken the 30 easy seconds to sign it 15 times already. I don't know what there is to lose.
you said it all :)
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 06, 2010, 03:38:36 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;330879
Exactly! What is it everyone has been saying all along about the SHO's??? There was an existing platform that they threw the badge on. Well, OK! What is so wrong with that?
And for all the time and effort that everyone has spent bashing the idea, one could have taken the 30 easy seconds to sign it 15 times already. I don't know what there is to lose.
Did you read the petition ? What it says is "Bring back the late 80s Turbo Coupe " not " Please use the Thunderbird name on a cool new car " The second sentence I would probably sign , the first one I think is a waste of time . Nothing to lose by signing except 30 seconds of my life. ;)
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Ether947 on August 07, 2010, 12:16:48 PM
Buy a G8 GXP. Badge engineer as Ford Thunderbird Turbo "Sedan" inside and out. Install turbocharger. Get job at Ford. Park on front lawn everyday until they get the idea to bring the Holden over to rebadge as Tbird with Ecoboost.
Sales will be pitiful (citing the awesome G8), and Ford will lose money, but hey... mission accomplished.
I'd buy one though... LOL!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: t3skidoo on August 07, 2010, 05:29:22 PM
Quote from: Ether947;331062
Buy a G8 GXP. Badge engineer as Ford Thunderbird Turbo "Sedan" inside and out. Install turbocharger. Get job at Ford. Park on front lawn everyday until they get the idea to bring the Holden over to rebadge as Tbird with Ecoboost.
Sales will be pitiful (citing the awesome G8), and Ford will lose money, but hey... mission accomplished.
I'd buy one though... LOL!
Or they could stay in-house and bring over the Falcon.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Ether947 on August 07, 2010, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: t3skidoo;331091
Or they could stay in-house and bring over the Falcon.
That's what I meant... I've got GM on the brain.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 07, 2010, 08:34:46 PM
Quote from: Ether947;331094
That's what I meant... I've got GM on the brain.
I think there is a pill you can take for that now:hick:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 08, 2010, 01:43:28 AM
Quote from: t3skidoo;331091
Or they could stay in-house and bring over the Falcon.
Ford has already been bringing over Falcons from AU and studying them. Many years ago when I first started using the internet one of the things that I was fascinated with was discovering that Ford still made a Falcon in Australia. It's likely the next new Falcon platform will be shared with the next generation Mustang and also supply other possible RWD US domestic market variants.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 08, 2010, 03:36:25 AM
would make a nice replacement for the outgoing Grownd Marqtorias....WOW this is getting off topic!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: t3skidoo on August 08, 2010, 08:17:09 PM
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on August 10, 2010, 09:01:26 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;331143
would make a nice replacement for the outgoing Grownd Marqtorias....WOW this is getting off topic!
A what???
Oh BTW, a modern TC ain't going to happen...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Thunder Chicken on August 10, 2010, 09:22:49 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;331405
A what???
Oh BTW, a modern TC ain't going to happen...
...and a repopped 80's TC REALLY ain't gonna happen...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: 84TBirdTurbo42 on August 10, 2010, 09:32:37 PM
and now we wait for the enlightenment, common guys if we believe we can make it happen, hahaha. all 3,000 (if theres that many of us) of us thunderbird and cougar lovers are gonna persuade Ford to make a new bird'. ya right. because the sho group think they brought that back.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 10, 2010, 10:45:45 PM
Just a fun way to say Crown Vic./Grand Marq. Took me way to long to come up with:hick:
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 11, 2010, 03:09:57 AM
Quote from: sarjxxx;331424
Just a fun way to say Crown Vic./Grand Marq. Took me way to long to come up with:hick:
Notice that on the Grand Marquis you can actually remove letters and it will say Grand Ma... LOL!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: rodsterh on August 11, 2010, 10:57:50 AM
Good luck...maybe something exciting like this will happen some day but if you follow what the new car makers are up to these days, it's building a car based on what the Chinese buyers want. That's a HUGE market.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Masejoer on August 11, 2010, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: Thunder Chicken;331407
...and a repopped 80's TC REALLY ain't gonna happen...
I agree but the overall design of the car would be fair game. Round tail lights, solid nose, ecoboost-like motor, similar body lines, etc could still work but the chassis would be completely different and it would likely never be optioned nearly as well as a Mustang in terms of drivetrain/suspension/brakes/etc.
While the early Mustang and 94+ have similarities, no tbird, other than the retro of the early 2000's, has gone back to its origins and I think this is what would cause the tbird name to just be plastered on some random new vehicle at some point in the future. Every generation of tbird has had almost nothing in it from the last and why would this change now?
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: sarjxxx on August 11, 2010, 08:29:05 PM
Quote from: Seek;331529
While the early Mustang and 94+ have similarities, no tbird, other than the retro of the early 2000's, has gone back to its origins and I think this is what would cause the tbird name to just be plastered on some random new vehicle at some point in the future. Every generation of tbird has had almost nothing in it from the last and why would this change now?
Agreed
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: T-BirdX3 on August 11, 2010, 11:24:06 PM
Just take the new 'Stang add the ecoboost v6, add all the extras you can, make it top of the line, and call it a Mustang Turbo Coupe!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: bhazard on August 11, 2010, 11:32:43 PM
Quote from: T-BirdX3;331555
Just take the new 'Stang add the ecoboost v6, add all the extras you can, make it top of the line, and call it a Mustang Turbo Coupe!
Yeah big problem there buddy, "MUSTANG".
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: T-BirdX3 on August 11, 2010, 11:50:23 PM
Whats the big problem? Today's Mustang is our Thunderbird's. The '80's Mustangs were just lightweight cans, nothing fancy.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Masejoer on August 11, 2010, 11:58:54 PM
Quote from: T-BirdX3;331559
The '80's Mustangs were just lightweight cans, nothing fancy.
That they were - hideous, small things. At least they're popular for who knows what reason and it gets us aftermarket parts.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: hypostang on August 12, 2010, 12:06:26 AM
Quote from: Seek;331560
That they were - hideous, small things. At least they're popular for who knows what reason and it gets us aftermarket parts.
I think because they are fun to drive compared to what had been being built for years prior, and they were relatively cheap.
At least that's why I bought mine in 86
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Masejoer on August 12, 2010, 12:50:32 AM
Quote from: hypostang;331562
I think because they are fun to drive compared to what had been being built for years prior, and they were relatively cheap.
At least that's why I bought mine in 86
Errr - I get why they were bought back then, compared to the late 70's/early 80's, but people still have a fascination with them today. Many aren't even that light. I know we're biased here but I don't understand why people loved them back then over the Thunderbirds, other than name, price and the fact that they pretty much always left the factory with better parts all around. If the 80's Thunderbirds were named a Mustang and got the same Mustang parts/cost less, I'm willing to bet they'd be the popular fox vehicles of today. Perhaps a smaller version but the fox Mustangs were not much prettier than the prior years (imo of course).
I can't compare the Cougars as they go against what most people are used to in the looks of a car.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 12, 2010, 03:52:26 AM
Quote from: Seek;331529
While the early Mustang and 94+ have similarities, no tbird, other than the retro of the early 2000's, has gone back to its origins and I think this is what would cause the tbird name to just be plastered on some random new vehicle at some point in the future. Every generation of tbird has had almost nothing in it from the last and why would this change now?
I disagree...
The thing about the several generations of four seat Tbirds is that Ford has always used some specific Tbird design cues which define the identity of a Tbird which have been used consistantly for many different years while always showcasing the newest design body and greenhouse forms that Ford wanted to present at the time. Often these design updates bled over into the styling of lesser Ford models.
Some of the most consistant design elements were the use of eggcrate grilles, thick blind "C" pillars and full width taillamps either with and without the dropped center design. Alternately, separated dual pod taillamps were used. Then there is the consistant placement of the Bird emblems on "C" pillars and taillamps.
If you look at the 1958-66 models they all featured brows over the headlamps with the hood flowing down between them. This was resurrected in 1987 as part of the new aero flush headlamps and nose panel design. This basic design carried through in evolution all the way to the 1997 model. The 1987-88 models featured triple round taillamp details to mimick the 1960 taillamp design, as well as the thick cross hatched grille bars on the base, LX and Sport models. When the 1989 models came out they resurrected the full width dropped center taillamps last used on the 1977-78 Tbird which in theme originated with many of the 1960's models.
The 2002-05 Tbirds of course brought back a revised theme of the original 1955-56 models. The round taillamps were also used on 1961-63 models.
Even the classic Mustangs from 1965-73 were changed with updates while preserving some key design cues. The Mustang gave way to the Mustang II then was replaced 5 model years later with the boxy Fox Mustang which had absolutely nothing to do with the look of classic Mustangs. There was even a point come the 1983 model year that there was no pony emblem to be found. Compared to the Mustang, the Tbirds had very consistant themes. Even the boxy 1980-82 Tbird still had key identifying Tbird specific design cues that originated from past models.
Later model consistancy of Mustang and Tbird designs happened because they ran production for so many years on the same bodies and platforms without a lot of updates. This was unheard of in the 1950's through much of the 1970's. 1994-2003 Mustangs finally resurrected classic Mustang design cues to make them look like Mustangs again. Meanwhile the Tbird always incorporated key classic design cues that originated with the 1958 model until the last four seat Bird in 1997.
I remember many years ago I wanted the slab sided 1989-97 Tbirds to jump to the more voluptious shapes of the Mark VIII. I had done photo chops to the nose represent an evolution of the 1997 Tbird grille and nose theme. I also smoothed off the Mark VIII rear deck hump and made a set of dropped center taillamps complete with bird emblems.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 12, 2010, 03:59:00 AM
Quote from: Seek;331560
That they were - hideous, small things. At least they're popular for who knows what reason and it gets us aftermarket parts.
They were updated Pintos...
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: 84TBirdTurbo42 on August 12, 2010, 08:16:11 PM
idk, i love my 83 stang, its not like u see many four eye stangs anymore. id take it over the 88 camaro in my driveway anyday.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 13, 2010, 12:57:52 AM
Quote from: 84TBirdTurbo42;331636
idk, i love my 83 stang, its not like u see many four eye stangs anymore. id take it over the 88 camaro in my driveway anyday.
Well I have a soft spot for the right ones... 88 Camaro.. puke!
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: 84TBirdTurbo42 on August 13, 2010, 07:52:12 PM
i know right, its my step dads. no power but yet they badged it a iroc? i thought that was supposed to be the king S*** of camaros back then. but this has been my point all along. my 83 mustang is a tin can compared to my 84 bird. but that was the 80s. now my moms 09 mustang is nicer then my bird. so theres no need for a thunderbird now a days. dont get me wrong, id love a bird. but i just dont see the need. let alone a turbo coupe.
Title: ford and the new turbocoupe
Post by: Watchdevil on August 14, 2010, 12:22:28 AM
Quote from: 84TBirdTurbo42;331766
i know right, its my step dads. no power but yet they badged it a iroc? i thought that was supposed to be the king S*** of camaros back then. but this has been my point all along. my 83 mustang is a tin can compared to my 84 bird. but that was the 80s. now my moms 09 mustang is nicer then my bird. so theres no need for a thunderbird now a days. dont get me wrong, id love a bird. but i just dont see the need. let alone a turbo coupe.
Back in the 1980's no one seriously would have believed that we would return to horsepower wars like we have today. Before the 1982 Mustang GT came out we were subjected to asphyxiated V8's that only had around 120-130 HP.
It's so hard to sit by and see that there is no longer Thunderbird. I often wonder if people think it is a failure because it is no longer made which is not really the case.
The package of a Mustang and Tbird is so much alike that the only thing that would be different is Tbird specific styling and emblems and more than likely would be a premium price way above the Mustang. The people who bought Thunderbirds in the past bought them because they were affordable personal luxury cars when that was the hottest market for cars. The last generation just appeased to classic 55-57 enthusiasts and collectors.
Sales since the last four seat Tbirds have migrated to sedans and SUV's. There is no sense for Ford to take a risk it cannot afford by offering a Tbird just for the sake of it existing. Ford has more important things to focus on right now rather than offering a low production car that the average person will not be able to afford only to appease a few enthusiasts who will likely only be able to aquire one after it has depreciated as used. Anything Ford makes now has to guarantee profitability.
Some cars like the Lincoln LS have gained more popularity as a used car because they can be had at an obtainable price.
The Thunderbird nameplate has an identity crisis right now because it is so uncertain as to what kind of car to revive. It would need to exist as a car that will sell in good numbers. As it is now, fully loaded Mustangs are approaching the price point of the last generation Tbirds.