Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: jpc647 on August 01, 2010, 08:12:12 PM
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 01, 2010, 08:12:12 PM
On my 1987 5.0, I've developed a clicking sound in the engine compartment. The noise happens when you are acceleration, a little, at WOT, or anywhere in between. It doesn't happen while idling, or coasting down a hill etc. Speed doesn't matter, if i am maintaining 30mph, or 80mph, it doesn't make the noise. It appears to have started after I did my intake gasket swap, but it could be coincidental. I tried tightening the bolts on the intake just to be sure, but that didn't stop the noise. It seems to be a clicking or ticking noise similar to an exhaust tick. But it appears to be coming from higher up, somewhere near the intake. I can't seem to pinpoint it, as I need two people, one in the car with it running with it in D, one foot on the brake one on the gas a little.
I know it's a stretch, but I thought maybe someone might have suggestions, or had a similar problem.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 01, 2010, 11:20:35 PM
It could be an intake leak. How does it run? Usually with an intake (vacuum) leak the motor runs like .
Edit: I just read your other thread and you said you pulled the distributor. What is your timing set at? You could be pinging if the timing is too far advanced.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 02, 2010, 08:20:58 AM
I'm going to check the timing today. I didn't have a light. The more I think about it, the more I think it might be something to this affect. But it does itpretty consistantly, not like when under a severe load or whatnot. It seems to be coming from like near the pcv valve, but the engine is so hot you really can't get close.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 02, 2010, 12:52:39 PM
What has to be disconnected on the newer cars to check timing? Is there a procedure on the forum anywhere?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Cougar8775 on August 02, 2010, 01:33:55 PM
pull the spout connector (the little black recangle bear your dizzy) Then your base timing should be 14 degrees. Then lock down the dizzy and shut her down and re install your spout connector.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 02, 2010, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: Cougar8775;330393
pull the spout connector (the little black recangle bear your dizzy) Then your base timing should be 14 degrees. Then lock down the dizzy and shut her down and re install your spout connector.
Factory spec is 10* BTDC for the SEFI 5.0 cars.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Rcarder407 on August 02, 2010, 07:42:01 PM
I was having the same noise at the same times from my car. I thought it was worn rocker arm/ push rod. I replaced them but still there, so next I thought its got to be the lifters. Just over the weekend I tore it all apart to put a h.o. cam in it. The stock cam is worn bad, the timing chain had a little play, and the lifters looked fine. But I went ahead and bought new lifters and timing chain set just to be safe. The timing set is still on its way, so after I put it back together I hope it solves my noise. I hope this can give you more ideas, if the timing is at 10*, of where it look.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 03, 2010, 08:46:03 AM
I checked the timing, it was spot on at 10*. I read a couple of places a lot of the guy run them at 12-14 for performance, so I bumped it up to 12. I see no difference in the noise. I'll bump it back down to ten when I get home.
I don't think it's the cam, this noise started after I replaced the intake gasket. It has to be related to something that was taken apart. I'm going to check the plugs tonight when I get home for signs of something. I don't know what it could be.
I was going to try to run the car at like 8* too, but I can't turn the distributor that far back, it hits the elbow for the thermostat. Is this normal? The engine only has about 82k miles on it, I would think the cam would still be good. Everything was well maintained on the car before I got it and did the engine swap.
Could this somehow be related to my oil leak through the PVC valve? In thread: http://foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=27260
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 03, 2010, 10:00:00 AM
Are you sure you got the distributor in right? I can turn mine without hitting anything.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 03, 2010, 12:51:17 PM
The distributor turns, but the plug that connects to it, the TFI I believe will hit the thermostat outlet if I turn it clockwise too much.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 03, 2010, 08:27:00 PM
Did I mention this only happens in drive, and not in park or nuetral? I don't know if that makes a difference, but it makes me think there isn't something in the motor like debris from the intake gasket swap, or a bad cam or something.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: hypostang on August 03, 2010, 08:36:02 PM
Ok , this may sound strange , but did you by any chance check your fan shroud to see if the fan is contacting it , Sometimes when leaning over the front of the engine you can tweak the shroud if you put any weight on it . The upper mounting holes are usually slotted/elongated and they can move just enough to touch the fan.
Take a peek:D
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 03, 2010, 10:04:24 PM
Thats a good idea, but it is definitely coming from the engine. It sounds like a ping/rapping noise. I was fearing that some part of the gasket got lodged in the motor during the swap, but where it doesn't happen in park or neutral, and only when in drive, and accelerating, I'm ruling that out. It has to be something timing/ignition related, I would think.
Is is possibly my timing is right at 10* but the cylinders aren't firing right? What I mean is, by this is before I did the intake the TIF was positioned midway between the upper radiator hose and the alt. bracket, and the car ran fine. After removing the dist. the TIF is right up against the thermostat housing, the car runs okay, but it makes this noise under load. It could be ping, a bad ping... Would it be in my best interest to remove the dist. move it one tooth the other way and them position the TIF back to where is was before the intake swap and try to see if it runs better. Does this make sense? I don't want to waste the time doing all this if you guys don't think it'll work. Just a though. Other than this, I am out of idea.
Is there a knock sensor on these motors(1987 5.0). Where is it, how do I test it?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: hypostang on August 03, 2010, 10:14:19 PM
Quote from: jpc647;330640
Thats a good idea, but it is definitely coming from the engine. It sounds like a ping/rapping noise. I was fearing that some part of the gasket got lodged in the motor during the swap, but where it doesn't happen in park or neutral, and only when in drive, and accelerating, I'm ruling that out. It has to be something timing/ignition related, I would think.
Is is possibly my timing is right at 10* but the cylinders aren't firing right? What I mean is, by this is before I did the intake the TIF was positioned midway between the upper radiator hose and the alt. bracket, and the car ran fine. After removing the dist. the TIF is right up against the thermostat housing, the car runs okay, but it makes this noise under load. It could be ping, a bad ping... Would it be in my best interest to remove the dist. move it one tooth the other way and them position the TIF back to where is was before the intake swap and try to see if it runs better. Does this make sense? I don't want to waste the time doing all this if you guys don't think it'll work. Just a though. Other than this, I am out of idea.
Is there a knock sensor on these motors(1987 5.0). Where is it, how do I test it?
It would definitely not hurt to remove the and reset the distributor, It is possible it is off a tooth and it won't cost you a dime .
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Scott D on August 03, 2010, 10:51:16 PM
Does the pinging/rapping noise go away after the car's warmed up? Does the sound start after it's had a chance to warm up?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 04, 2010, 12:10:00 AM
Quote from: jpc647;330640
Thats a good idea, but it is definitely coming from the engine. It sounds like a ping/rapping noise. I was fearing that some part of the gasket got lodged in the motor during the swap, but where it doesn't happen in park or neutral, and only when in drive, and accelerating, I'm ruling that out. It has to be something timing/ignition related, I would think.
Is is possibly my timing is right at 10* but the cylinders aren't firing right? What I mean is, by this is before I did the intake the TIF was positioned midway between the upper radiator hose and the alt. bracket, and the car ran fine. After removing the dist. the TIF is right up against the thermostat housing, the car runs okay, but it makes this noise under load. It could be ping, a bad ping... Would it be in my best interest to remove the dist. move it one tooth the other way and them position the TIF back to where is was before the intake swap and try to see if it runs better. Does this make sense? I don't want to waste the time doing all this if you guys don't think it'll work. Just a though. Other than this, I am out of idea.
Is there a knock sensor on these motors(1987 5.0). Where is it, how do I test it?
The EEC needs the distributor to be in the correct spot as it uses the veins in the distributor to fire the injectors correctly. I'd get the engine back to TDC and reset the distributor.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 04, 2010, 08:34:18 AM
Quote from: Scott D;330651
Does the pinging/rapping noise go away after the car's warmed up? Does the sound start after it's had a chance to warm up?
The sound starts immediately if there is a load(even small) on the engine. It only does it in drive or reverse(i think). It wont make the sound in park or in nuetral.
The distributor was reset, we found TDC on the number 1 cylinder, and went from there. It appears to be a the #5 cylinder making noise(if its a cylinder), the noise is like a metallic click and it's hard to locate it, it seems to reverbeate through the engine. I checked the plug, it seems okay.
On the attached picture, this is the motor shortly after it was put in the car and you can see where the distributorand TFI are located. This was before the intake gaskets were done and there was no noise. The yellow line represents roughly where the TFI sits now, its as close to the thermostat housing as possible, its touching it. Now if I move the distributor counter clockwise to move towards where it used to be the engine runs real rough.
I just feel the problem has to be related to something that was disturbed when the upper and lower intakes were taken off because it didn't make the noise before.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 04, 2010, 08:19:14 PM
what kind of sound does a bad injector, or failing injector make?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on August 05, 2010, 08:14:54 PM
If you ran codes you could do an engine balance test which would tell you.
If your distributor is not pointed the same way, it is not in right. If your timing is off alittle bit the car will still be fine power wise, but may ping sometimes under load, which would make alot of sense.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 06, 2010, 04:34:30 PM
The distributor was taken out, re make it so the distributor was right back where it was, we advance/ retard it off of 10* just to see if the clicked noise goes away but it doesn't no matter how far we go. We set it back to ten, so maybe it's not an electrical problem. It almost seems to be coming from a injector.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: hypostang on August 06, 2010, 05:12:31 PM
One more thing to look at When it is dark out tonight look around under the hood at all your plug wires/ boots while the car is running and make sure none of them are arcing to ground . That will also make a clicking sound
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on August 06, 2010, 11:22:11 PM
Quote from: hypostang;330991
One more thing to look at When it is dark out tonight look around under the hood at all your plug wires/ boots while the car is running and make sure none of them are arcing to ground . That will also make a clicking sound
This is a good idea. Try pulling your spark plug wires off one by one and see if it changes the way the car runs.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: sarjxxx on August 08, 2010, 04:00:53 AM
put it under load when you do that too, b/c when you put it under load and the engine tweaks to the side a little b/c of the mounts, it might be when it comes in contact and thats why you only hear it then.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 20, 2010, 04:38:08 PM
It doesn't seem to change anything. The clicking is still happening even when plug wires are pulled on and off. I tried spraying the wires with water looking for archs too, nothing.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: sarjxxx on August 20, 2010, 06:37:17 PM
Quote from: jpc647;330301
I can't seem to pinpoint it, as I need two people, one in the car with it running with it in D, one foot on the brake one on the gas a little.
Just slam down the e-brake, chock the wheels, and pull the throttle cable yourself (not hard though!!!) while your checking it out:hick:
No seriously, I've done it many times. Might help you figure it out.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 20, 2010, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: sarjxxx;332787
Just slam down the e-brake, chock the wheels, and pull the throttle cable yourself (not hard though!!!) while your checking it out:hick:
No seriously, I've done it many times. Might help you figure it out.
No e brake, the line broke a long time ago. Actually the equilizer broke right through a rotted piece of the floor, lol.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: sarjxxx on August 20, 2010, 09:10:41 PM
ohhhh...
plan b.
Just chock the wheels, get inside the car, and see if you can give it enough throttle to hear the sound without jumping the chocks. if so, your good. I know mine won't jump one of those parking curb thingys (look in my sig) from a standstill, maybe go to a parking lot a try it.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jcassity on August 21, 2010, 11:20:03 AM
spray water- thats what i would have done
spray carb cleaner along intake mating areas, listen for rpm change
pinpoint noise with wood dowel from engine parts to your ear- your saying its cyl 5 which is up front near the AC unt. in another statement you siad the noise is in the rear near the pcv.
after hot at night, shut off car and look for a glowing precat on the exhaust. if so, gut them both. also, feel around for exhaust leaks.
to hear better, put your fan in a bind so it doesnt turn for a small amount of time so you can pinpoint an exhaust leak better. feel around where the headers connect. do this starting out with a cold motor. as stated before , chock your wheels with blocks real good knowing your ebrake is broke so stay to the sides offering great respect to the potential sacraficial toes and feet.
to check timing chain slack, bump motor to a perfect 0deg TDC remove dist cap and eyeball the orientation of the rotor button. it should be dead on top of spark plug / cyl number 1. if it isnt,, fix that. if it is,, keep reading. place breaker bar on crank pully bolt. rotate engine the opposite direction which should be easy for a moment until you feel it get hard. when it gets to a stop point, this is when all slack is out of the timing chain and now your cam is in the rotation game. when you feel this happen then stop. read where the pointer is pointing to what degree marking on your harmonic. report back the total degrees.
My dist points kinda towards the front driver corner close to what you have now. if your slack is excessive, you could be set wrong but looking correct.
dont forget to eyeball that rotor button pointer real good when you first take it off, that will tell a lot.
back to the original gut feeling you had its intake related....... -remove pass side injector plugs one at a time -if engine rpm changes the same on each plug removed, then good luck getting to the rest on the pass side. if no / little rpm change on any one injector plug removed then you just found your problem.
-since you did mess with the intake and all the vac lines, check the electrical conn / vac lines in the rear center. -there may be an important wire that backed out of its connector back at the center of the intake. -other than the above, i cant think of anything else you could have done to inject the noise by way of a mistake.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 24, 2010, 01:53:53 PM
I was driving the car back from springfield today, and I had to get into it a little bit to get around a truck carrying a shed that was all over the road. It appears that at WOT the noise goes away, now I had the radio on, and I wasn't really paying attention but it seems that was the case. I will recheck after work today, on the highway where it is safe. I thought this might open up a couple of possibilities to what it could be.. And as soon as it stops raining, I'll get back out there and play with the car again.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on August 24, 2010, 10:37:16 PM
When I did my timing chain, I am fairly sure I put it back in a tooth or two off. Looking at my dizzy, it looks the same as yours, and I had a timing issue. I ended up unbolting the brace behind the A/C pump and turning the dist as far as I could. That solved my overheating and pinging.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on August 24, 2010, 10:38:38 PM
Have you had your timing chain cover off?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 25, 2010, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: Haystack;333331
Have you had your timing chain cover off?
No. Why?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 26, 2010, 06:01:42 PM
Alright, I went out and played with the car for a little while today while it's nice out. If you recreate the situation, and you remove plug wire 3 and number 7 (the third one back from the front of the car on each side) the noise will go away. No I can't unplug the injectors because they are under the intake, but I thought these being directly across from each other might say something. Anyone got any ideas? What could this mean.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on August 26, 2010, 11:11:17 PM
It means that your engine is misfiring and your timing is off.
On my car, I had a timing chain cover leak. I pulled it off to re-do the gasket, and my timing chain had enough slack that I could almost touch the chain. Thinking back, I am sure that it slipped a tooth or two. I did not re clock the timing chain, and just threw it together as quick as possible. It was 9:00pm monday , and I needed the car for a 150 mile commute at 6:00am the next morning. The stock timing chain is a single roller, stock mustang is a double roller. Some 87's had plastic gears. Mine did not. I think you may have slipped a tooth on your timing chain, or your dist is in wrong, or both. Basically, you need to get a piston stop. Figure out where top dead center is and make sure that your #1 valve is where it should be.
What kind of power does the car have? Does the car fall flat on its face before/after 3,000rpm's?
Thought I should mention, my dist is clocked the exact same way as yours. I removed the a/c bracket to pull the dist closer to the drivers side, and my pinging went away and I left it at that.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: thunderjet302 on August 27, 2010, 01:30:24 AM
Timing is off. I'm fairly certain of it at this point as you had to pull the distributor to replace the intake gasket.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 27, 2010, 08:44:53 AM
Quote from: Haystack;333688
It means that your engine is misfiring and your timing is off.
What kind of power does the car have? Does the car fall flat on its face before/after 3,000rpm's?
Thought I should mention, my dist is clocked the exact same way as yours. I removed the a/c bracket to pull the dist closer to the drivers side, and my pinging went away and I left it at that.
Car power above 3000rpm? I don't really think it revs that high, usually. I did floor it last week on the highway and it downshifted right away and took off okay. If i rotate the TFI towards the driver side more, therefore spinning the distributor clockwise, the engine dies. The timing is set just at 10* right now.
How can the distributor be in wrong? With the TFI module on the distributor, it's not like it can be in backwards, right?
I'm sorry if I seem dumb here, I don't know much about this stuff, and I'm just trying to fix it, I'm on a budget.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on August 27, 2010, 10:24:18 AM
The distributor, well at least the TFI is roughly right where it was before the engine was removed. Now it's possible the timing skipped a tooth at one point, and maybe the car was configured around it?
When the dist. was taken out, I didn't mark it, and we put it in, the car didn't run. We reset the wires on the dist. according to the ford book. So it was changed from what it was. Any suggestions? I'm afraid to pull it apart and not get it running again... What could have been done?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: sarjxxx on August 27, 2010, 05:01:17 PM
Wow, I've been folowing this for a while, seems like a real killer.
What their saying is not about the dist cap, but the entire dist itself (the shaft that goes into the block). If you're distrubutor gear does not match correctly on the tooth that it mates with on the cam (timing) gear, then you can mess with timing all you want and not get it right. But, since you say your timing is set correctly at 10* then most likely it is on the right tooth. Did you ever pull the shaft out at anytime? That is what they are trying to ask.
Your distrubutor cap is independent of the distrubutor, which is what the rotor is attached to. When you rotate your dist. cap you change the point in which the dist rotor hits the points on the cap. If the distrubutor shaft is on the wrong tooth, it will hit prematurely or too late, thus making cap based timing impossible.
When I replaced my engine, I had timing issues too. What I did was advance it to about 12*. Idk if this will fix your problem, but try it. If playing with your base spark timing does not fix the problem, then your problem is with valve/piston timing, which is the relationship between the cam and crankshaft. A la timing chain. If your timing chain is stretched, or is off tooth or two (or three) then spark timing will never solve your problem.
I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it is possible that your valves can open far enough for the piston to actually hit them at tdc. I'm pretty sure that is not what is happening. Most likely that is not the problem, or things would me MUCH worse.
Also, are you sure its not a case of light pinging or knocking due to bad combustion?
And have you checked triple sure your sp pl wires are all attached to the correct points on the cap? Its hard to put them on the wrong spots on the block since they are all lenght matched, but if you put your 3 & 7 wires on backwards on the cap, then you could be firing both cylinders wrong, which could def cause a problem. (It would make you run a v6):D
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 06, 2010, 11:58:44 PM
a mechanic heard the noise the other day, and he said it almost seems like a leak in the emissions tube on the back side of the engine. Now I don't want to contradict this mans fine opinion and decades of experience, but wouldn't it make noise when not under load? Any exhaust tick I've ever heard happened all the time.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: hypostang on December 07, 2010, 12:07:14 AM
Nope, not necessarily in fact I have seen (heard) a lot of exhaust leaks that you could only hear under load ,
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Haystack on December 07, 2010, 12:10:28 AM
I think there is too much going on here, and too many of your issues have been brought up in too many threads for anyone to really keep track.
I'll bet money your dist is in wrong. That is all I have to say.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 07, 2010, 01:52:11 AM
Okay... I try to spread out different problems as to solve them all individually. Other people mentioned the dist. but where the timing is right it seemed to be the general consensus that it's probably right.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 11, 2010, 09:26:29 PM
Also, I didn't really understand what sarjaxx was trying to say about the car. He said because I got the timing right it is probably unlikely that it's wrong, that's all I understood.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 11, 2010, 10:24:14 PM
What kind of gas do you run? My cougar pings if I run anything other then 93 octane. That's with my timing at 10*. If it pings with cheap gas then put some better gas in it and see what happens. If for some reason your injector timing is retarded or your ignation timing is retarded it will cause the combustion chamber to get HOT causing it to ping. Have someone check you TFI module. I've heard of people having problems with the TFI dist. too. The ignation advance is controlled by the computer by the magnetic pickup in the dist., it might need to be replaced. If you have access to another dist. I would swap the whole dist. and see if that helps.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 12, 2010, 12:12:28 AM
I usually run 87 octane. This whole problem happened after I changed the intake gaskets. It's a stock 5.0, no mods. I tried the gas thing. I usually run 87 octane, it's always been fine since I put the motor in. I tried 93 octane with an octane booster just to see, no difference. I almost sounds like an exhaust tick, but it doesn't do it at an idle or in park at all. And if I unplug the 3 or number 6 cylinder, the ticking goes away. I think, if it was an exhaust problem, leak, it would do it at idle, or when revved in drive, not just under a load.
It may be the distributor, is there a way to check the TFI?
This may seem stupid, but what is the difference between a ping and an exhaust tick? I feel it sounds like a ping/raping as it's only under a load.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 12, 2010, 08:42:16 AM
I think you should save your money and take it to someone that knows what they're doing. Many of people have said that it could be an exhaust leak and most of them say it's most likely an ignation problem. There are some smart people on here, listen to them. Cars do weird things sometimes. I had a ranger with a 2.3L. It split the header causing an exhaust leak that sounded like the cam was wiped out. It only made the noise when I revved it. This has been going on for four months, I think you should throw in the towel and get someone that knows what they're doing. If it's an exhaust leak, any good exhaust shop can find it.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 12, 2010, 10:29:28 AM
You may be right. There are only a couple of decent shops around here, I went to one and they told me it sounded like the emissions tube, but my problem with that is if I remove the 3 or the 6 spark plug, the noise goes away. That doesn't make sense to me. Why would an exhaust tick go away when the third cyl. stops firing? But I guess I'll just have to take it somewhere else.
I know what the guys here have said, and I've done what they said, I've checked, rechecked, and checked the timing again, its perfect. I didn't understand what else the were talking about regarding the distributor.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 12, 2010, 10:43:08 AM
Sounds like a cracked exhaust manifold or leaking manifold gasket. Think about it, if the cylinder stops firing then the pressure in the manifold drops, there fore stopping the tick. You've pretty much rule out the pipe on the back of the heads, so take it to a shop and ask them to check your manifold.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Aerocoupe on December 12, 2010, 04:02:21 PM
Have you swapped the plug wires around to see if it follows the plug wires? What I mean by this is completely remove the #7 plug wire and see if you can use it for the #8 or #6 wire and then use that wire for the #7 wire. Do this on the passenger side as well for the #3 wire.
Do you know how to get the motor to TDC and set the distributor up to be on the #1 wire position? If not go here:
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,7114.0.html
And like everyone else said take it to an exhaust shop and have them check it out for you. It should not cost you a dime for them to give it the once over.
Darren
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 13, 2010, 04:45:23 AM
Yes. The motor was set to TDC to set everything up.
I recently was told by another member the EGR system is not active while car is in Park or Nuetral, which does now lend itself to say this problem may actually be a leak in the emissions tube on the back of the block. I will be taking it to a local exhaust shop when I get back, to see what they say. It seems funny that when unplugging the 6 and 3 cylinder it stops. I thought this might stand out to someone and mean something.
It does not follow the wires around, I recently bit the bullet and bought all the stuff for a complete tune-up, and did it, and the problem was still there. So this eliminated the possibility of spark knock, etc.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 13, 2010, 08:32:47 AM
It does not eliminate the possibility of spark knock. Wire, plugs, and cap & rotor have nothing to do with spark knock, where the timing is set and weather the timing advance is working right is what causes sprak knock. Heat, carbon build up, stopped up convertors, and vacuum leaks also cause spark knock. The EGR tube on the back of the cylinder heads always has pressure in it, it is connected directly to the exhaust ports. Didnt you say that the noise is coming from the driver side of the motor? All of the EGR is on the passenger side. Im sorry if im being harsh but this has been going on so long, I dont think you're going to figure this out until you take it to a professional. Don't take it to a tune up shop, they most likely dont know what they're doing.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 13, 2010, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: Bruce M;345429
Sounds like a cracked exhaust manifold or leaking manifold gasket. Think about it, if the cylinder stops firing then the pressure in the manifold drops, there fore stopping the tick. You've pretty much rule out the pipe on the back of the heads, so take it to a shop and ask them to check your manifold.
This is the kind of advice I was looking for. It would make sense, I mean the intake gasket was changed, I'm wondering maybe if something isn't right. Can an intake manifold leak be "fixed" without replacing the gasket again? Is there any type of goop that can be applied if I find the hole? I wasn't aware there was really that much pressure in there, but I think I know where the problem is. Why doesn't it do it in park or neutral though? Is something in regards to the engine pressure change when the car is in gear?
Can permanent damage be done to the motor is this wasn't fixed? Or is it just annoying? I don't really have the time of the resources to do this again, so it might have to stay the way it is for a little while. My brother is a certified ford mechanic, he helped me, I'm assuming he knows what he was doing, I know one of the gaskets seemed a little small, it might be leaking there.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 13, 2010, 01:47:05 PM
I thought you said you replaced the intake gaskets. If it's a vacuum leak it could be a pinched gasket or a vacuum line. The only way to fix a leaking gasket is to replace it. If you continue to drive it with an intake or vacuum leak, you could burn a piston or exhaust valve. If it has a cracked exhaust manifold or blown gasket it could burn the exhaust valve. A leaking exhaust manifold has nothing to do with your new intake gaskets. It is possible that a bad exhaust gasket or bad exhaust manifold would only leak in gear because there is a load on the motor. Revving it in park or neutral doesnt put a load on the motor, it just free revs.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 14, 2010, 03:50:17 AM
I did replace the intake gaskets, sorry I made a typo. I'm thinking it is a bad intake gasket. So to ask my question correctly, can a leak in the intake gasket cause any serious problems?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 07:48:59 AM
Yup, If you continue to drive it with an intake or vacuum leak, you could burn a piston or exhaust valve. If it has a cracked exhaust manifold or blown gasket it could burn the exhaust valve.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 14, 2010, 10:48:07 AM
... I might be better of sping this god for saken car. :(
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 14, 2010, 12:19:02 PM
Dont do that! Most likely it's something ez, just being over locked. Have someone check your spark plugs. They'll be able to determined it has spark knock. Then you can rule that out. If it's an exhaust leak it will be ez to fix. Have you pulled any codes yet? Most part stores will do it for free. Cracked exhaust manifold are common so be sure you check them.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 14, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
I think it's the intake. There is a small "slit" which looks like the gasket did not fill in correctly. I'll post a picture. What I'll do is when I get home I'll run the car, spray water directly there, and see if it bubbles, etc.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: Bruce M on December 15, 2010, 12:02:19 AM
Quote from: jpc647;345709
I think it's the intake. There is a small "slit" which looks like the gasket did not fill in correctly. I'll post a picture. What I'll do is when I get home I'll run the car, spray water directly there, and see if it bubbles, etc.
It's not going to bubble, its going to suck it in. Use carb or brake cleaner. If the gasket is bad the motor will smooth out and rev a little higher when you spray it with carb cleaner. Does it run bad or does it just ping? If it's got a bad gasket it will most likely run like .
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 15, 2010, 05:33:44 AM
It runs and idles fine, as well as it always has. I thought I took a picture, but it must be at home. There is almost a small gap in the intake and the engine. I'll post pictures Friday, and I'll spray some carb cleaner in the area and see if it changes the way the car runs. The car doesn't "ping" it's really like an exhaust tick. I tried recording the sound but it doesn't come out on my digital camera.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jcassity on December 18, 2010, 12:47:03 AM
rotate your crank to zero deg in the normal running direction. ignore the distributor completely,, screw it , it has nothing to do with the valves opening or closing. remove number 1 spark plug stuff a screwdriver in the hole and you'll find your piston is TDC (either on exhaust or compression stroke) stuff a garden hose or something smaller in the spark plug hole blow like hell in the hose. if you can blow through the hose then rotate the crank one more revolution back around to zero again because you must be on exhaust stroke. feel for your piston being on tdc once again. If you can still blow through the hose then your timing is off by a tooth. if you can not blow through the hose then shag it,, move on to the next thing on the list. this is crazy and taking too long to diagnose. theres no reason to be still wondering if your timing is off or not.
or remove #1 plug stuff the hole with barely damp paper towel bump starter barely several times or cross the starter solenoid with a screwdriver intermittantly eventually the paper towel will pop out your TDC mark on the crank will have traveled too far past the pointer so rotate the crank the opposite direction going a little too far past the pointer now rotate the crank to bring zero on your crank back to the pointer now stuff a garden hose in the plug hole. if you can blow air through, your timing is off by a tooth if you can not blow air through then move on.
report back.
once upon a time i had an emission solenoid that was chattering when i was driving a certain speeds but i noticed it depended on the amount of pedal i was pushing ,,ie- the qty of vac being applied. The solenoid was chattering and was directly related to the smog pump system.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 18, 2010, 08:08:07 PM
Quote from: jpc647;345709
I think it's the intake. There is a small "slit" which looks like the gasket did not fill in correctly. I'll post a picture. What I'll do is when I get home I'll run the car, spray water directly there, and see if it bubbles, etc.
There is a slit between the outside of the gasket and the portion that seals the water passages... In case of a leak, it's function is to route the coolant outside the engine rather than letting it get into the oil...
To check the integrity of the gasket that seals the intake ports all you need is a vacuum gauge, if it idles 18in of vac or more you don't have a problem... Any leak that would lean the mixture enough to cause spark knock at open throttle is going to cause a very high idle(2000rpm or more)...
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 18, 2010, 11:59:13 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;346172
There is a slit between the outside of the gasket and the portion that seals the water passages... In case of a leak, it's function is to route the coolant outside the engine rather than letting it get into the oil...
Interesting. Would you happen to have a picture of this? I'll post a picture tomorrow afternoon of what I am referring to. Maybe you can confirm if it's the same thing.
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 19, 2010, 02:23:20 PM
Here ya go... Not all gaskets have them though, I have another set that doesn't...
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 19, 2010, 08:26:38 PM
These are the pictures of my intake where it almost looks like a leak. I put some rtv silicone there, just to see if the noise changed.. does that look like a gap to you?
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: hypostang on December 19, 2010, 08:28:37 PM
Looks normal to me
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jcassity on December 19, 2010, 10:04:38 PM
these dont,
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on December 20, 2010, 09:18:12 AM
Quote from: hypostang;346276
Looks normal to me
Agreed, gaskets aren't always cut straight across, so there often are small gaps... If you could insert a feeler gauge down into the opening, then there would be a problem...
Title: New Clicking Sound from Engine Update!
Post by: jpc647 on December 20, 2010, 11:20:37 AM
Quote from: hypostang;344823
Nope, not necessarily in fact I have seen (heard) a lot of exhaust leaks that you could only hear under load ,