I've now had my car at three different places trying to get someone that could find the source of some pretty bad noises I've got up front. I can consistently reproduce a sing noise by slowly going up and down those 3' wide speed bumps (you know - the one normally painted with white stripes or arrows). Also just touching the brake pedel, pushing it harder, or letting off of it makes a creaking noise. Going over very rough roads also makes the same noise. It's coming from the drivers side and gets louder with the window down. Normally sounds like just a bad sing but occasionally sounds like higher pitched worn out suspension noise. On 60 degree mornings, the sound is gone for about 10 minutes into a drive. In the afternoon, the sound's normally there from the second I pull out of a parking space. The sound can come and go but usually comes and stays until the car sits. The sound cannot be reproduced on a lift, weighted on either the frame or suspension.
All front end suspension, steering, and break parts are new. The K-member bolts have been cleaned and re-torqued, all bushings, ball joints, etc lubed up with a ton of extra grease, all suspension bolts loosened and re-torqued, but it's still there. I'm hearing ideas of frame noise since no one can find any problems in the suspension, steering, and brakes. It can't be the k-member or the cross bar down there as they're already been tested. I'm thinking about putting some cheap stock struts in to soften the blows to the strut tower and also to have it tell me whether the strut itself could possibly be bad (less than a year old - SN95 Bilstein). Control arms and bushings in like new condition, ball joints good, tie rid ends and swaybar end links/bushings new and lubed up. I'm using some of Chuck's motor mounts but without grease - I would like to pull these out and grease them but I don't see the small changes from light brake pressure as something that could cause the motor mounts to make noise. Of course, they're tight and shouldn't make the sing noise I hear. There is only like 1/8 clearance between my stock steering shaft and I believe the motor mount(don't remember? Headers maybe?) but they don't show signs of hitting one another.
How should I go about finding the noise? I'm not sure I can get a microphone in there that won't wash out with wind noise. It's very easy to reproduce on those residential-type speed bumps but the closest is about 2 miles away from the house. Is there a set of sensors that can be mounted and what would they be called?
I have had that "rusty mattress" noise come from ball joints, and lower control arm bushings. Since you are sure the ball joints are lubed, I'd check the latter.
I found my noise by having a friend put it on a lift, then he pulled down on the sway bar (bouncing the car) while I walked around listening for it.
Eh, that is the higher pitched I'm referring to but I've only heard it once or twice. With the car sitting, I jump on the car from the door jamb and it's quiet (I also use my damaged fender but I've only got the sound to come from there once or twice in the driveway, on the suspension - drive it and it goes away again). I just don't want to replace the $350 control arms if I don't need to. I've always thought control arm bushings but everyone that checks it out keeps telling me that they're perfect and that I shouldn't need to touch them. That area's probably got 5 different lubes all over it now and I wish it didn't - I like the stuff I use myself.
What's a fool proof way to check the ball joints and control arm bushings for noise when it comes and goes and never there when stationary?
A lot of times bushings just get dry and stiff rubbing inside of the componants they are mounted in. This can even happen with upgrade bushings that are stiffer than OE. Sway bar bushings are most noted for this, especially when going over speed bumps. I would at least try some silicone spray first to lube all your bushings up to see if the noise goes away.
Does it sound similiar to the problem in my old thread? : http://foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=24099&highlight=noise
its a long shot.. but have you checked/replaced the steering rack bushings?
They were replaced last fall with my reman rack. We used some energy suspension pieces - I believe 4 piece.
Kind of - the sing noise I hear is what differs from everything I can find here on the forum. I was initially hoping it was only k-member related but reinstalling those bolts didn't help any.
Wow - I went to find this information and found that my rearend thread was an incoherent mess :p
Parts:
Steering:
Rebuilt Napa 15:1 steering rack with polyurethane bushings
New ACDelco power steering pump
Turbo Coupe steering wheel
Turbo Coupe 16" rims on 225/60R16 tires
Suspension:
Front
New Moog tie rod ends
New Moog stabilizer bar end links with the Moog bushings
New polyurethane swaybar bushings
New Monroe strut mounts with polyurethane bushings
New Bilstein HD struts for sn95
Reused 15k mile control arms/ball joints
New Moog 8600 springs
New polyurethane spring isolators
Rear
New CHE Tubular control arms with polyurethane bushings
New Bilstein HD shocks for sn95 using Chuck's Mustang shock adapters
New Gabriel "quad shocks"/"steering dampers"
Stock springs
New polyurethane spring isolators
Brakes:
1995 Mustang GT 1 1/16" Master Cylinder
1993 Cobra brake booster
SSBC adjustable proportioning valve
Front
Rebuilt 1991 Lincoln Mark VII 73mm Piston calipers with steel bushings
New Napa "premium" ceramic brake pads
Reused 1988 Turbo Coupe spindles
New 11" vented rotors
New inner/outer wheel bearings
New Stainless steel brake lines
Rear
Reman 1988 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe 45mm "Varga" calipers
New Napa organic brake pads
Surfaced 10" vented rotors
New soft brake lines - left, right, and intermediate
New 1991 Lincoln Mark VII rear parking brake cables with modification to lengthen
Rearend:
Stock driveshaft with <10k mile ujoints
Rebuilt 8.8" TL 3.08 ratio rearend from an 88 Turbo Coupe
Parts to be installed:
2003/04 Cobra steering rack
Maximum Motorsports hybrid steering shaft
Maximum Motorsports CC plates
Moog fox inner tie rods
I'm going to send you a picture tonight when I get home, it wouldn't hurt to check, and it appears to be what my noise was. Sorry, my boss wouldn't like it if I went out and jacked my car up at work.
the poly you installed... was it the grey/black or the red?
Standard red. As far as I previously knew, they were the same other than the color...then I find people mentioning that the color is more than just color - there's like 3 or 4 colors and the red's the softest?
the black /grey has graphite in it for lube, the red (other colors) do not...
get some silicon spary and try lubing all your red bushings. That may be all it is
I'll go at it myself this weekend - everything really is already all lubed up but I'll get in there myself (I haven't greased it myself in almost a year) and goop/spray some things up. To an extent, the more the merrier. Can almost never have enough lube.
Energy Suspension?
Red and black are the same durometer, just the black is graphite impregnated, for less squeaks and whatnot. Or so their website says...
They used to offer more colors, but for the last few years all they've had is red and black. Some stuff you can't even get in black, it's on back order or something.
Hope you find the noise :D
Lube one part at a time.Yes,it'll take time with a few test drives,but eventually you can narrow down the problem and know what needs to be fixed.
Is your driveshaft rubbing a ler or anything like that?
I've read your post two times now and my gut tells me its a Sway bar end link. Upon inspection it will look like nothing is wrong. What happens is the Nut, washer, bushing comes off. This is all on the underside of the A-arm. Once that is all loose or gone the upper bushings tend to stick to the big bolt type piece. Then as you go over those bumps and turns and such that Bolt piece rubs on the A-arm and causes that sing sounds. Then if the bump is big enough that bolt piece gets out of that hole and hits around the hole causing the s and them a Bang of sorts when it does slam back into the hole. Hope that is it nice and simple fix. If not keep plugging away
Stuckman
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/c-259-stethescopes-noise-finders.aspx
Might work if you're going over speed bumps.
If it were me, I'd ask a friend go with you to a place where you can reproduce the noise and have him listen to it as you drive by to pinpoint the location better.
I had a metallic sing noise coming from the right front wheel well when going over bumps. Couldn't see anything wrong. A few weeks later finally went to re-check my 5-lug work in the rear and saw the e-brake cable had been rubbing on the wheel. D'oh. Fixed it with some zip-ties. Not saying that is your problem, but acoustic issues are hard to pinpoint when you're inside the vehicle and the noise is outside.
That tool is awesome! I need one just because I can - they would be so helpful from time to time.
While it's a pain to do such troubleshooting, I'll try out your guys' ideas on Saturday - it is only supposed to be in the mid 70's so I won't be baking like the last time I did car work a few weeks ago. I've got some VERY good directions to go in to try to find the problem(s).
The problems seem more temperature pr0ne than anything else. Being 65degrees out, I can't get the sing noises to reproduce and the other creaking I have sounds very much like something in the brake area. I will just be pulling everything apart and greasing everything I can think of up with silicone and synthetics in a spray can/bar.
Well still can't find anything but I can't drive it again until I get a couple new caliper bolts -the ones on the passenger side are weak and one sheared off when torquing with a 6" ratchet...
Swaybar bushings were fine and the end links showed no signs of rubbing. I greased up a bit there. Also greased the tie rod ends as the boot wasn't looking too full, boot on the drivers side ball joint looks more squished than that on the passenger side but they were just greased a week ago and have grease coming out out of both (far from sealed). Torqued the cross bar and k-member bolts a little more as they weren't exactly "tight" (hopefully something here solves the problem). Ummm, control arm bolts, strut bolts/nut, breaks made sure tight and brakes were greased further - upon pulling the drivers side wheel off, the wheel wasn't spinning very freely and I'm not sure why. Calipers are new as of last year and the piston pressed in easily enough with a c-clamp. Re-set the pads with some new brake-quiet goop. Swaybar bushing mount bolts are all already tight and I checked other bolts in the area (what am I missing from the above list?). Transmission cross member bolts/nuts are good, as are the motor mounts bolts. I did not see anything rubbing, although I wouldn't be surprised about the plastic fender guards touching the swaybar when it sits on its own weight. My sound/feeling issues are much deeper than such petty problems though. I'm still not sure what I occasionally hear tapping on the passenger side when braking as the caliper looks like it's working perfect and the backing plate has about 1/4" clearance all around. The noise slows down with the wheel/speed so it's something in that area. Smacked the wheel grease dust covers back on as they were lifting off slightly. I didn't see any signs of rubbing of the springs on the control arms.
It's nice to know that my passenger side caliper bolts were stressed - not a very nice feeling but at least the sheared one was easy to get out. Too bad nothing obvious was bad but who knows about the kmember and cross bar bolts.
So where are the other k member bolts? I only saw 4 on the sides?
Got it back together but I'll have to test drive it tomorrow - sounds good so far but it always sounds good in the morning after it's sat all night.
Whether it's fixed or not, I've got a new noise that popped up a few weeks ago. On the drivers side, there is a very low pitched suspension noise that wasn't there before and seems to be vibrating through the entire chassis. The front wheel going over any rough road or up a bump has a very low toned noise, kind of like road noise you normally hear on rough roads but a little lower toned and only coming from that one tire. I do not have the sound deadening installed in the kickpanel so I do year more from the wheels than normally but the noise being new is the only concerning thing. I don't think it sounds like any part that's going to fail though, unlike the sing noises from the drivers side front that I've been hearing on warmer days.
Is there anything rubbing your springs? Or maybe a s of metal or something caught between a spring and the frame or arm? You prolly already checked that but I'm just sayin
Tons of clearance around the springs although I'd like to pull them out and add a lot more grease around the polyurethane bushings between the spring and the bushing and the bushing and body. I only used some sparingly on the inside as all I had when I installed them was the grease that came with the bushings. Either way, that shouldn't have anything to do with my problem and the bottom of the springs are in about 1/2" from the end of the tubed bushing on both sides so it's lot peeping out and sing on anything.
Okay guys - the sound that was seems to be no more. Now the problem that was starting to creep up on my passenger side brake area is a full blown problem that I cannot pinpoint. I've put jack stands on the frame and jack stands on the a-arms with and without the wheel on but with no luck in pinpointing the problem.
Symptoms: Car going over manhole over (all here are raised or recessed a little so there's a bump), when the passenger side front hits it, I hear a high pitched banging sound like the caliper or rotor if something were to hit it. Braking is smooth but I hear a quiet to medium volume repeated clank clank clank if I press the brake lightly but with enough force to actual feel the braking in effect. The noise slows down as the car slows down. Caliper bolts have been pulled out and greased and the two mounting bolts replaced as I had issues with the ones I was using earlier. The noise was there with the old bolts so I don't think it has anything to do with the replacement hex-head bolts/slides. Nothing ishiznitting with plenty of clearance all around, including the splash guard. The sound has much more weight/force to it than a splash guard issue. No signs of anything hitting in the wheel areas. Nothing loose in the engine bay that can cause it, that I can find anywhere.
What am I looking at now? I've got one of them chassis stethoscopes coming now but this problem should be much more evident in what is causing the problem.
I had it back apart both Saturday and today to give myself a clear head. There are no problems that I can find other than my 50,000 mile directional tires are badly worn on the passenger side and it's likely mostly due to the old rear end I was using prior to last year - failing traction lock = one wheel wonders. Hopefully the outside wear on my front tire is a sign that A) I need to rotate them (or rather, replace them now actually) and B) I either had, or right now have an issue with alignment. The frontend was aligned a couple thousand miles ago though and the tires have been around for 5 years.
Edit: A-arm bolts were checked with the impact but none would really torque down any more.
Edit2: While I did have the pads off of the drivers side caliper over the weekend and used brake quiet everywhere to keep metal on metal contact from making noise, I did not do anything on the passenger side but replace the bolts. I'm thinking I'll pull the pads off and re-install them with some of that goop also to cut out the chance of the inner pad making any noise. I will also note that my drivers side brake was seized up a bit more than the passenger side - again. I may have to replace that side's caliper as the only thing left that can be bad on it is the piston's movement being stuck. Apparently I can get the steel pistoned calipers for fairly cheap from o'reilly's. Either way, that side's stuck and it doesn't appear to be hydraulic related. I cannot consistently get it to reproduce when pressing the brake and going over the manhole covers but it does.
do you have the rattle clips that go between the pad and caliper? with out them you get some odd nosie
I've not found anti rattle clips for the front calipers of either the stock or the 73mm pistoned calipers I'm using now (everyone has the TC rears though). I see that Maximum Motorsports has a set that should work. While it shouldn't matter, I also have MM's steel sleeves instead of the rubber boots so the brakes shouldn't move/flex as much during actual braking.
I pulled the pads off the passenger side, bent the inner pad's clips out a bit more, applied a bunch of brake quiet to the area to help see if it'll dampen the noise slightly (once dried, this should tell me quickly if it's the brakes, although I don't expect the stuff to last more than a few miles). forcefully got the inner pads back in the pistons, gooped up a bit more, and put everything back together. I did find that the bolt that holds the brake line's bracket to the chassis wasn't exactly tight so I snugged it down good (not that the sound is that of such a small bracket).
Edit: With medium braking (slowing from 30mph), I can't get any noises to generate from the area. The noise is still there right when I pulled out of the driveway and hit the manhole cover a fee feet away, without touching the brakes yet. I think I hear the same noise if I kick the passenger side tire now - the noise isn't there on the drivers side and I couldn't make a noise kicking the brake rotor when the wheel was off. I'm not so sure it's the brake caliper itself, the pad, or something different altogether. I'm out of things to try that won't be a permanent "fix/test" as NOTHING can be seen/felt/heard with the wheel off or the full weight on the suspension.
Strut mounts maybe?
Since I think I can reproduce the sound by kicking the tire in the driveway, I'll check it out although the strut mounts are only a year old and torqued down well. I just need to pick up some ramps to look into the problem further.
do you maybe have internal wheel/tire balancers that have come loose and are bouncing around hitting your wheel rim inside the tire? Just a random anything goes kind of thought... I know mine can make a pretty good "dang" when a metal object hits them
While there is a balancer on the inside of the wheel, I found the problem. Maximum Motorsport's "stainless steel brake caliper sleeves" are apparently already worn inside enough to let the slider pin bang around rather than hold it tightly like the stock rubber sleeve. While I would like its benefits, I can't justify the racket that the caliper was making over a slight difference in braking quality. What a waste of $30 that was...
Instead of replacing the sleeves, I picked up some steel pistoned calipers as a replacement for a fairly low $50/pair since my drivers side caliper was also apparently having issues with its phenolic piston not pulling back enough. Just another NAPA reman part that I've had issues with (alternators, steer racks, and now a caliper...).
Front end is dead quiet now. I still need to bleed the brakes a bit more tomorrow as I ran out of daylight and bubbles were still flowing out but it's borderline brake lockup-able. I wish I could find my hand pump...
wow my pictures never posted... sorry. I'll redo them tonight. I can't upload pictures from work.
I still have some rattling during light braking but I think it may be coming from the rear area as I KNOW there's nothing in the front that could possibly be rattling up front now and only during braking. Just driving the car today, the brakes stiffened up quite a bit and it stops quick so perhaps I'll just do a quick re-bleed in a week.
good deal on gettin her to quite down!!
Yeah, it's nice to not have the thing rattling, squealing, clanking, and such as I'm going down the road on anything but the smoothest of pavements. Now if only the valve train was a little quieter...
Pulled the rear brakes off and found two things. 1) the passenger side had one of the two wires on one of the pads up around the caliper. I bent it back and re-installation took care of the noise. 2) There were no anti-rattle clips. I can only get one clip on, not both. Is there a trick to installing these or are my pads just slightly too wide? I fought with one side for a good hour before I gave up and left it at one clip per side.
Yeah...I've already got creaks coming back during driving and going over speed bumps. I'm pretty certain it's coming from the same area that went away when I reinstalled the kmember bolts but I'm afraid to tighten them much more as they don't seem overly thick. How far should I be taking the kmember and cross brace bolts down? Should I worry about overtorquing them with the smaller 400ft/lb impact at max or should I put the IR on them for a second? It isn't exactly easy to use a torque wrench when u9nder the car and going horizontally.
I've got the following two impact wrenches:
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-impact-wrench-2623.html
http://www.amazon.com/Ingersoll-Rand-2135QTIMAX-2-Inch-Titanium-Impactool/dp/B000WMR8H4