Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: droptop93 on July 14, 2010, 11:06:55 PM
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 14, 2010, 11:06:55 PM
Well have to swap motors again,,,:mad: Motor I bought and put in sons car turned out to be no good. Ran good for about 3 days and now have coolant coming out exhaust. Dont have time to rebuild so got lucky and found a 96 explorer motor that was just pulled. So now car is getting explorer motor.
Since I have to pull motor again, I am pulling tranny and having it freshened up w/ new converter. I am leaving the explorer cam in since its made for torque, and going to use 1.6 roller rockers, but may swap to 1.7's later.
Anyway, question is for people that used the explorer motor w/cam.. Trying to decide if I should run a converter with stall speed of the explorer, or will stock stall of a mustang, since it is an HO swap?? Not looking for anything real hot-rodish,, but want a combo to be matched and work well as daily driver... BTW,, car will be getting a Tubro Coupe 8.8 w/73's eventually. Already have 8.8 but havent installed it..
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Haystack on July 14, 2010, 11:35:35 PM
You already have the explorer motor cam in your car. It uses the same truck roller cam as your cougar/bird. Upgrade to the H.O. cam at least. You don't need to worry about torque in a car with a 5.0 liter v-8. If it makes torque up high, then it still makes torque. I would run at least 2000rpm stall or higher.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: vinnietbird on July 14, 2010, 11:50:57 PM
I'm using a Mountaineer engine...same thing,except mine is of the "P" variety.I'd swap cams and valve springs for sure.A stock Mustang H.O cam,and new valve springs will make you happy,give nice performance,get decent mpg,and be easy to do.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 14, 2010, 11:57:05 PM
I do have mustang HO cam, but was leaning toward the explorer cam,, so I dont have to pull intake off. But if the stock HO cam is that much better, then I will swap it in, and just run a stock mustang converter with tranny rebuild.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: vinnietbird on July 15, 2010, 12:13:18 AM
The H.O cam is better.Pulling the intake with the motor out is a piece of cake,plus,new gaskets can't hurt anything.You'll have to swap the timing cover,distributor,oil pan and pickup,lower intake metal water lines,ad a few other little things,so,what';s the big deal about an intake?LOL.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Beau on July 15, 2010, 01:33:03 AM
Pretty hard to beat an HO cam, and as Vinnie said, a lot of the stuff on the front will need to be changed anyway. ;)
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 15, 2010, 09:51:18 AM
All right people, ya talked me into it.. Man you guys are persistent :D Just so dang frustrated that I have to swap motors again.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: vinnietbird on July 15, 2010, 04:54:36 PM
Take your time and check everything over 2 or 3 times.If you have questions,we're here for you.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on July 15, 2010, 05:39:35 PM
I'd go with a 2400 stall lockup converter as well...
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 15, 2010, 06:01:44 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;328375
I'd go with a 2400 stall lockup converter as well...
That work well with stock HO cam?? I havent messed with stock HO stuff in so long, and plus never messed with stock AOD stuff. Most of the stang Ive had were 5 speeds, and last 2 I had Art Carr AOD's with 3000-3200 stall. But also they were behind blown stroker combo's.
This car wont be going to track anytime soon. Might take my son drag racing after he gets some driving under his belt. He doesn't take the test for his driver license until July 23rd... And I think once he gets his freedom with having a car, then we will start modifying it.
Its hard for me not to go crazy with this thing, right now. Since I sold my 93 Summer Edition droptop, I am fee-ning for a hot-rod to build.
Can see it here + few other stangs I've built---> http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3346805
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 17, 2010, 08:52:29 AM
If it's just a daily driver, there's no need for more than a stock convertor, which will typically flash around 1800rpm. I'd stick with the explorer cam for now...contrary to popular opinion it's not the same as the "truck cam" that was originally in these '87-'88's. It's a good cam and will make peak power around 4200 with GTP heads and 4700rpm with GT40 irons- which the '96 has.
If it's being built as a fun weekend/strip car, then yes, convertor and cam...but with those stock parts, you'll get better fuel economy and still make more than HO power.
It's all about the overall combination....just like you wouldn't wear a pair of tube socks to go swimming.
Good luck, Don
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: BadShoe on July 17, 2010, 11:56:27 AM
As others have said, no need to get wild on your son's ride for now. However, if you want to get a good overview of info on cam swapping and stuff related to the Explorer/GT40P engine, you and others on the forum might be interested in my 5.0L swap dvd series. It's got lots of details on swapping in a 5.0L into a Fox TBird however, scenes devoted to cam design, geometry, piston to valve checks, troubleshooting EEC problems, making you own EEC/pump relay box etc. are all in this package. I see questions about these subjects on this and other forums all the time which I address in the film. See the badshoe vender ad below for my member discount if anyone is interesed. I have to go along with the GT cam if you were going to change it and keep SD electronics if that's what you have. I used a Crane 2020 in my project which works with SD but it's close to the edge. Good luck on the project.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Haystack on July 17, 2010, 12:38:42 PM
"The F4TE cam is 256/266, the HO is either 276/276 or 276/266
96-01 Explorer 5.0L "HO" roller Ford Part numbers: F4TE-6250-BA * Advertised Duration: 256 / 266 * Duration at .050 in.: 186 / 197 * Gross valve lift: 0.422 / 0.448 * Lobe separation: 116°
I found this on the fullsizebronco.com forum. How accurate it is I can't say, but it's in between the low-output 302 Crown Vic/T-bird cam and the HO Mustang cam, although it's a good bit closer to the low-output unit."
"I was trying to get the full spec (card) on the HO roller cams from the 5.0l, so I can run them in Desktop dyno.
So far, I've found the lift to be .444/.444, 204/204 at .050" lift, 116 lsa.
I was looking specifically for intake and exhaust valve opening and closing timing events. Anyone know?
The cam I have now is a stock 86 HO roller.
Thanks!!"
So basically, it is not the truck/cougarbird camshaft, its the 351 version of the same camshaft. Wonder why they also put it in 351's, hence the 351 firing order. That is probably why everyone says that the motor falls flat on its face at 4,000rpm's.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: t.birdsc on July 17, 2010, 11:06:18 PM
Quote from: Haystack;328567
"The F4TE cam is 256/266, the HO is either 276/276 or 276/266
96-01 Explorer 5.0L "HO" roller Ford Part numbers: F4TE-6250-BA * Advertised Duration: 256 / 266 * Duration at .050 in.: 186 / 197 * Gross valve lift: 0.422 / 0.448 * Lobe separation: 116°
I found this on the fullsizebronco.com forum. How accurate it is I can't say, but it's in between the low-output 302 Crown Vic/T-bird cam and the HO Mustang cam, although it's a good bit closer to the low-output unit."
"I was trying to get the full spec (card) on the HO roller cams from the 5.0l, so I can run them in Desktop dyno.
So far, I've found the lift to be .444/.444, 204/204 at .050" lift, 116 lsa.
I was looking specifically for intake and exhaust valve opening and closing timing events. Anyone know?
The cam I have now is a stock 86 HO roller.
Thanks!!"
So basically, it is not the truck/cougarbird camshaft, its the 351 version of the same camshaft. Wonder why they also put it in 351's, hence the 351 firing order. That is probably why everyone says that the motor falls flat on its face at 4,000rpm's.
This might help, but it's been copied from internet sources. Seat timing: Stock '90+ .444 lift IVO 17 IVC 69 EVO 67 EVC 19 Stock '88 spd den? .444 lift IVO 20 IVC 76 EVO 67 EVC 19 Explorer .420 IN lift .447 EX lift IVO 10 IVC 76 EVO 66.5 EVC 19.5 E303 .498 lift IVO 31 IVC 71 EVO 71 EVC 31
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: V8Demon on July 22, 2010, 08:03:13 AM
Quote from: turbocoupe50;328375
i'd go with a 2400 stall lockup converter as well...
+1
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 22, 2010, 11:17:31 AM
For me and if it were my son and he had seen my "project" cars...no way I am changing cams, springs, or putting anything but a stock stall in the AOD. The stock motor will be just fine for a DD and it will keep him out of trouble. Besides, within a very short time frame father and son would be itching for more power so why not just leave it alone and start building another motor for the car as a project? Sounds like you have an antifreeze puking candidate right now that could use a rebuild. Just seems like the work plus the parts plus any money that will be spent to put a stock cam in would not be worth it as it will not be in the car long enough to justify even the labor let alone the actual parts and money.
Just my take on it but then again I cannot leave a stock car alone longer than it takes to get it from where I bought it and to my house.
Darren
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 22, 2010, 12:04:55 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;329153
For me and if it were my son and he had seen my "project" cars...no way I am changing cams, springs, or putting anything but a stock stall in the AOD. The stock motor will be just fine for a DD and it will keep him out of trouble. Besides, within a very short time frame father and son would be itching for more power so why not just leave it alone and start building another motor for the car as a project? Sounds like you have an antifreeze puking candidate right now that could use a rebuild. Just seems like the work plus the parts plus any money that will be spent to put a stock cam in would not be worth it as it will not be in the car long enough to justify even the labor let alone the actual parts and money.
Just my take on it but then again I cannot leave a stock car alone longer than it takes to get it from where I bought it and to my house.
Darren
Dont know what happen to that motor, when it started puking coolant. Only thing I changed was the raditor cap, from 13# to 16# and thats what started it all. So bought another motor to swap in for now. When I broke it down, intake and head gaskets look good and didnt see any obvious items. So it maybe in the heads, since I bought them used. Short block was also used, but did put new bearings, oil pump and timing chain in it. Motor was running great for few days, and even had AC blowing cold. When I swapped rad caps is when it started puking. Guess the 3 extra pounds put it over the edge. Will set short block off to side, for now, and use it later.
But the new motor will consist of;
HO conversion,( had SD computer & 19# injectors laying around) Explorer motor, Gt4o heads, explorer cam, Exlporer intake, 65 Throttle body,(had laying around) FMS 1.6 roller rockers,( had laying around)
Did send tranny off for freshening, and person who is doing it, uses Baunam shift kits in his rebuilds. Nothing fancy, but said it will firm up shifts.. Did go with stock stall for now, and it may change later, again when son gets some exprience. Do have a turbo bird 8.8 I may install after he drives a few months. I figure afte rhe drives a year, the speed bug should have bitten him. And then, we can start modifing the car.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Aerocoupe on July 22, 2010, 03:43:06 PM
Ahhh, I like it when a plan comes together! Sorry, had to quote some Hannibal from the A Team. Good luck with the soon to be project!!
Darren
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Kitz Kat on July 22, 2010, 04:05:23 PM
He got a good dad.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 22, 2010, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;329169
He got a good dad.
Thanks man,,, Figured I would try to give my kids things I didnt get a chance to have growing up. I grew up in, inner city of Detroit until I joined the US Army in 88.. Didnt get my 1st car until I was 21 and bought it myself. Long story short, dad passed when I was young and mom struggled with 4 of us to raise..
Couple things I forgo ton combo,,
kirban adjustable regulator, (another thing I had laying around), mac 1 5/8 Shorty headers, 2.5" off road X-pipe, cat back with stock 05 lers. Sounds real good IMO... Once running will get vid of exhaust,
Also got him soem new seats coming, 94GT seats, and also aquired majority of 87-88 Turbo bird black interior. Got liek 80% of it. So will be transforming interior from blue to black & grey combo.. Here are couple pictures of 2nd motor going into bird... Wish headers were ceramic coated, but cant complain for $40, they will do for now.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: 88BlueBird on July 23, 2010, 01:12:13 PM
Nice work...engine looks great. Your son is a lucky kid, hopefully he enjoys working on cars too and will appreciate the work you have done so far.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 23, 2010, 06:57:11 PM
You've got a good combination going...you're using the explorer intake right?
Good luck!
-Don
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: vinnietbird on July 23, 2010, 07:10:17 PM
That reminds me a lot of my engine when I was bolting everything together on the stand.
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: droptop93 on July 23, 2010, 10:47:29 PM
Quote from: Sick88Tbird;329316
You've got a good combination going...you're using the explorer intake right?
Good luck!
-Don
Yep,, using explorer intake.
Quote from: vinnietbird;329322
That reminds me a lot of my engine when I was bolting everything together on the stand.
I hope this car looks as good as yours one day.. Its so hard for me not to modify and build this car right now. Ive built so many mustangs and not having a hot rod at the moment, is killing me.. The urge to do this car is very hard to resist. So I had to break down some and modify it alittle before I lost my cool...:D
Few pictures of some of mustangs Ive had and built.. can see more on cardomain,, in my sig..
My 86 T-top GT..
When I got it (http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee263/ma84lx/junk86-1.jpg)
Title: People w/ explorer motor and AOD..????
Post by: Sick88Tbird on July 25, 2010, 05:50:47 PM
Quote from: Haystack;328567
The cam I have now is a stock 86 HO roller.
So basically, it is not the truck/cougarbird camshaft, its the 351 version of the same camshaft. Wonder why they also put it in 351's, hence the 351 firing order. That is probably why everyone says that the motor falls flat on its face at 4,000rpm's.
The SD roller cam has 10* less advertised duration, so according to your logic it's automatically not as good. The MAF cam was bumped up to 276* adv. duration to reduce valvetrain stress as the intake profile was pretty agressive....the MAF cam has a less agressive intake profile...but you won't notice a difference between the two.
The Explorer/Mountaineer motor doesn't fall on it's face at 4000...probably feels like that as it's coupled to 4000+ lbs of SUV. The GT-40 headed version('96-97.5) was rated right about 208hp @4700rpm and the "P" headed version(97.5-00) was rated around 217@ 4200....and the MAJOR restriction is the exhaust manifolds...some people have claimed 40+ rwhp with headers.
Bigger isn't always better...it's about the total combination.