(Edit: This was originally an add on/reply to another thread, but I had the mods move this to its own thread. I felt like it deserved it. Thanks mods.)
Similar situation here, if you guys could help me out, I would very much appreciate it. I have 88 v6 w/ AOD. Heres the story...: last wkend I was driving back home on the free way, doing about 75 and everythings going normal, when all of a sudden the car lurches and feels like the tranny swithced into 3rd gear for a second, then goes back to normal. It stays normal for the rest of the ride until I get off the ramp, and when I go to accelerate it feels reeeeeaal nasty.
I dont know squat about transmissions, but what it felt like to me was that the *tourque converter was slipping???* kinda like it just didn't want to grab and complete the drivetrain. And it was having some trouble upshifting too, from 1-2 and 2-3. 3-4 was normal.
I got it home, and checked the fluid, and fluid was waaaaaaaaaay to far up the stick. I wasn't sure if it was a bad reading, so I checked it again, and got same thing. It's been doing it for the last week, but since this car is my dd I had to drive it, I just been taking it easy.
I finally got paid today, went and bought a siphon and pumped out all the extra fluid. I pumped out and entire HALF GALLON of extra fluid!!! I don't even know how that happened (I'm never taking the car to express lube again). I thought that would fix all, but when I went to test drive it today, it got worse! Now its doing what he said above.
When I'm at a stop light or the like and give it gas, it doesnt matter how hard I hit the throttle, the same thing always happens: car gets up to about 5/6mph and lurches hard, and I lose all momentum, feels like its slipping into neutral, the rpms go up to about 25-2800 and it catches, happens again about 2-3 more times, and lurches back and forth every time, and then it shifts straight into 3rd all the way to upper 40mphs and shifts seamlessly into 4th, which is strange cause I always used to have a nice "ker-plunk" every time it went into OD.
Sorry for being so long winded, I just want you guys to understand what I'm dealing with, cause I'm really worried. I had a similar situation happen before to another car(pos windstar)and that was quite an expensive repair job that I DO NOT have the money for right now. I am going to try a complete fluid/filter this wkend, cause the fluid is *dark brown/BLACK* and I am hoping that might fix it.
If anyone has any idea what else might be wrong I would surely appreciate any help. Thx
p.s. i took a video of the tach as this was happening; this is from stop at a red light and it looks like I gunned it but its only about 1/4 throttle at most. Its acting really crazy, was hard to keep the camera still cause of the lurching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bYliX1hBt0
The darker the fluid is, the worse shape the tranny is in, more likely then not. How is your TV cable/linkage?
http://www.coolcats.net/tech/troubleshooting/shift.html
If your transmission is slipping at all, I would park the car right then and there and then either get it checked out or do a filter/fluid change. Especially if the fluid is so dark.
If it is the TV valve, park the car. Do not drive it. a tow would be cheaper then replacing the transmission. When I bought my car, the stupid tv cable was already "fixed". Vacuum line with a zip tie. It is probably tighter then the replacement part, and it has been there for quite some time.
Just to be certain you were checking the fluid with the car running and hot and it was reading way too high right ?
The symptoms you describe sound pressure related , but also similar to low fluid
what exactly is he talking about when he mentions bushing? I have a plastic clip-esque device on my tb mount that the tv cable runs through, but I dont think theres anything wrong with it....Pics:
V8's are a different set up
didn't see your post sorry, yes it was hot and running and I had fluid near 6" of the way up the stick *yeeeesh*. I siphon pumped it out to below the crosshatch (all the time scalding my hands on the 200 degree fluid), and filled er up to just below the top of the crosshatch area like it says, and voila: still runs like shiznit...
I dont know the adjustment procedure for a V6 TV cable ....sorry
Hopefully someone else will chime in
i had read on cool cats about how the throttle cable to the pedal can stretch over time (which mine did), and i fixed that via secret shimming techniques, and how the tv cable is capable of the same thing. when I fixed my throttle cable i checked to the best of my knowledge to see if the tv cable seemed stretched to the trans, and popped it off the tb and gave it a few tugs by itself, it was very springy and I felt no play or looseness in the cable. I did check it again today and it still felt the same. But, that doesn't mean thats not the problem. I am definitely going to change out the fluid and filter on sat, or hell, i might even get to it tomorrow night, when I do my sway bar bushings. I'll make a night of it!:toilet:
Btw, i forgot to mention that if I pull shifter down into 1st, it grabs just fine and stays there until i move it up, just like it should. Then when i go into D it shifts up to 2nd and to 3rd almost normally and i pop it into OD and goes into 4th just fine too. This to me makes me think its something to do with the kickdown but i'm no trans tech, so i guess i'll play with it if the fluid change doesn't help.
Appreciate yall's input. Thx
Hey good news for anyone paying attention! After the P.I.T.A. fluid/filter change, the car runs great!!! Between that and the sway bar links and bushings i replaced today, i couldnt be happier! Well, i guess i could be happier if it hadnt taken me to 2.30 in the morning to finish everything!
well, its back to doing the same 'ol thing again, and actually it was just a couple days after this last post it went back to it. It wasn't as bad as before, but its been getting worse, and a few people I know and myself included are pretty much convinced the tq converter is going out, and I would like to get it fixed before its gone.
I found this,
http://ocala.craigslist.org/pts/1730337921.html
and am considering swapping the whole tranny over, but I'm thinking it probably wont fit.
Otherwise, I go with this,
http://orlando.craigslist.org/pts/1748035220.html
but I really don't have the cash to shell out for this one right now. (or really for the other one either for that matter)
*Sighhhhhhhh* I'm starting to get mad at my car again...
Any suggestions?
well, its doing it again. The exact same thing.
I changed the fluid and filter again today b/c I was reading an old thread about how to adjust the TV cable and also how not having a gasket between the pump and filter can cause problems b/c of it pumping air instead of fluid, and I didn't remember my last filter having a gasket.
I changed it all out, lo and behold, no gasket between the filter and pump. Added 4.5 quarts of Merc, and let the engine heat up. Checked the fluid, and it was pretty good. Right were the pink arrow is pointing in the picture below.
Went out for a test drive and it ran great for about 5-10 minutes. YAAAAAAYYYY. Thought I was good. But shortly after, it started acting exactly the same way. I checked the tv cable and tried adjusting it a few times, didn't help. It also will not shift into OD anymore. No matter where the TV cable is located.
I went and checked the fluid level next, and guess where it was. Right where the green arrows are pointing. Which, is exactly where it was before I changed it the first time, and exactly where it wound up at after it started doing it again.
I am SOOOOOOOO PISSED OFF at my trans.
I don't know too much about transmissions, but my thoughts on the subject were that the torque converter/pump are going out on it, or I've got something stuck in the valvebody???
Anyway, my solution is going to be switching in one of the $250 mustang aod's in the local JY. I should have no problems getting it to fit and work correctly right?
Are you checking the fluid with the car in park?
It'll read high in that case....
yes. car in park. just like the dipstick says. and the manual. and the haynes book. and you guys....
why do you say it would read high?
I'm betting its more the internals of the transmission that are the problem at this point. I had a buddy that had the same problem on a z24 cavilier, ended up being the TV cable fell off. I love car engineering. With a fluid and filter changer, it is much better when warm, but still slips alittle bit until then. His fluid was dark as anything and smelled like burnt piss.
The darkness in the fluid is parts of the clutch burning up. Also, if you can, put a magnet in your tranny pan.
I check mine in neutral?
I meant in park and engine off.
If I go out to my car& pop the hood with the car not being run for a while, my fluid will read right about where yours does in that picture.
no, that's engine on, running, in park, and hot. (PAINFULLY HOT most of the time)
Does anybody know if a trans from a 90 or 93 3.8L tbird will fit in my 88? I found them at the local JY and would like to swap tomorrow but I am concerned about wiring issues and driveshaft length. (they told me last week they had 2 or 3 AODs from a fox mustang, but I went back today, and they had jack) GRRRRR
If it won't fit, I am considering simply switching the torque converters out, b/c I think my whole problem is that its not pumping fluid correctly.
Not sure about the 90,but the 93 is probably a AODE, that won't work. as a direct swap.
, you're right. I just looked it up, AODE's came into play in 91.
Thats why it looked wierd to me......
Do you think I would be able to swap torque converters between them though? I think I would like to go that cheaper route if possible.
I would reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally like to get this done this weekend if I can, cause I don't know how much longer my current one is going to last. Its getting worse by the day.
I did a parts search, there may be a spline difference between the aod and e. 35 spline verses 31 for the E. but size wise everything else is the same. I know this won't help you now, but I may have a stock one at work yet you can have for shipping.
That could also be a really bad idea. A lot of the time, when the fluid hasn't been changed in a very long time and it gets real dark (almost oil like) changing the fluid could mean bye-bye for the tranny, usually within a day or two from the change. I'm not saying this will happen in all cases, I've just seen it happen way too may times. Just happened to my brothers car. He had real nasty looking tranny fluid, so he changed the fluid and filter, and his trans started slipping, then finally gave completely.
K thats fine, b/c they have a 1990 there which was right before the switch to E's. As long as everything is the same size wise like you're saying, then I will be 98% for sure be attempting a full swap out next weekend.(ran out of funding{and time}this week)
Thanks for finding that out for me.
What do you mean? Stock tranny, or torque converter?
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Its getting so bad now, that I can smell tranny fluid burning after I park the car. And its not coming off my exhaust pipes either. It smells like old, worn out, fried tranny fluid. And I noticed today that when I tried to check the fluid again, the fluid was so hot that it was as thin as water. I mean, it wouldn't even stick to the dipstick, which was itself so hot I couldn't even hold onto the handle! I could barely see it on there, but when I wiped it off, it came off a solid black, and I just changed it [3] days ago. Ugggh.
Yeah, I've heard of that many times. I know guys who change tranny fluid as soon as they get their car, and then will never change it again, until bad things start going wrong on their own. I was scared to change it when I did.
---
Oh, and btw, just to make sure this isn't due entirely to a strong case of my own stupidity, there's nothing wrong with running this fluid in an AOD right? It calls for Mercon, but this stuff is [both?]
Check the fluid level without starting it and after the car has been off for a while. Compare that to the running fluid level.
Did it go down? If not, then you have a massive block or your pump is hosed. Check the cooler lines to make sure that they are free of kinks.
PS, the TC doesn't do the pumping, there is a pump right behind the TC that is driven by a couple notches on the TC housing.
Also, I replaced just the TC band on my SC trans a while back. Link here:
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=26434
I'ts kinda a PITA, but when I got in there the OD band just fell out it was so worn. Replaced it and it ran like a champ.
Not everything got AODEs inn 91. They started in the big 4drs (Towncars). TBirds had AODs until 92. Mustangs till 93 I believe. I don't recall when the F150 switched over. Make sure you get an 87 or later trans as they fixed an oiling issue in 87.
Also, if OD is out make sure you are driving In D not OD. When it shifts to OD, you are slipping the band against the intermediate clutch housing and it will burn, burn like a wicker cabinet. I drove my SC for a long time in just D until i finally got around to fixing the OD band. Just pretend its a C4.
You have to understand the basics of Automatic Transmissions to understand this one. At the factory, Ford adds a measured amount of black magic. As the trans goes down the road, the black magic rubs off into the sludge on the bottom of the pan. The only way to replenish it is to take a sacrificial bath in ATF. Failing this, there is no known cure.
-Z
K thx, i'll def check that out tomorrow.
I typically drive in D all the time unlesss i get over 55 for a good while but its not so much that OD band is out, as it is just that the ol girl dont know its time to upshift. It'll shift just fine (in evey gear) when its cool.
My mind is officially boggled.
Sounds like you have VB problems. Most likely the seals have gotten very hard. When I pulled the accumulators on my 92, the seals were rock hard. I replaced them and the crispness came back.
I would look for a good used trans out of a running car.
Gluck.
Ha ha. I drove it home today, let it cool of for approx. 30 mins.
Went out, pulled the stick, wiped it, stuck it back in,(go ahead and have as much fun with that sentence as ya'll would like...) and checked it:
Yep, same place as when it was running. :grinno:
Up past the line on the backside.
Thats not good. T-5 time?
A torque converter ain't your problem, apparently it has seal or valve body problems which have fried the clutches... At any rate, if the fluid had risen 6" on the stick, it's been frying hot and is at death's door...
Any COLUMN shift AOD from another Bird/Coug 5.0/3.8 is as direct swap as is the AOD from a Grand Marquis or Crown Vic(through '91)... The floor shifter trannys use a different shift lever(could be swapped from your old tranny, have to pull pan and I believe the valve body)... The pickup and Lincoln MK-VII AODs are approx one inch longer, don't want one of those... Forget the AODE as well(converters DO NOT interchange), it is shifted by the EEC, ones from a 4.6 won't bolt up anyway...
The shift lever can be dropped by pulling the valve body (I think, been about 4 years) and simply re-installing it. Easy to do. I swapped a 87 v-6 into a 87 v-8 and had to swap it.
This is exactly the information I was looking for! Thanks.
If everything goes right, I'm about two days from buying a 96 Tbird and parking the Cougar. So I'll have some time to work on it now, and plus I know what I need so I'll have some time to get all the right stuff and get it done right the first time.
I appreciate everybody's help.
Also, thanks mods for moving the thread
:rollin: Basically if a fluid change causes problems, the tranny was dieing anyway... In a tranny that the fluid is very dark(burned) with little or no transparency, 99.9% chance you're wasting your time...
.....Yeah. The fluid in mine is burning so bad, you can smell it after you park the car. And, its not leaking. Its just stinking. ha ha
The thing is totally fried.
After I get the new one in, I'm going to attempt to take this one apart and subsequently try to figure out what the hell is wrong with it, and then sell it for s!:D
Well, the tranny finally let go today. I've still been driving the cougar cause I haven't had a chance to tag the tbird, and on my way back home today, it just decided to finally give completely up.
I turned onto a side road, and when I gave it some gas, it lurched real hard, and then just let go completely. Engine shot up somewhere around 5000 and then after that, no matter what gear the shifter was in, the tranny was in neutral.
It makes some sort of weird whining noise now, and no gear will engage. At all.
Well, time for a new one for sure now.
Here's pic of the poor thing dead on the side of the road until we towed it home...with a pull strap of course!