I have a problem with my rear brakes.. replaced the shoes and went on to bleed the brake lines and there was no pressure or fluid, so I move up the line to the main brake line and there was no fluid there either.... any ideas? or has any one else had this problem? possible that the master cylinder is bad or the proportioning block maybe? this is on an 88 turbo coupe thanks
wow,, this one went unlooked at for a couple days.
yes,, id think the same thing you do. other and a mystery line being broke somewhere which you'd see that leak, its gota be the prop valve or the master.
Im not a tbird expert but if its got abs,, its out of my area of experience.
Does have abs and i think there may be a special procedure for bleeding them,unsure of what it is.
If you check out http://www.nato.com they may have some answers for you.
If you find out please let me know as i have been wondering this my self.
well I have the haynes repair manual at the shop, I'll do some reading in that today and let you know what I come up with. pulling the engine soon to replace so I will do more checking on the car when I get the engine out this weekend. thanks
http://www.turbotbird.com/FAQpage/FAQpage.htm#Brake%20Bleeding
We use a Rotunda ABS brake bleeding module, here is some info on it.
http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/brakebleed.html
i would think that if you disconnect the rear brake feed line that goes to the abs,,, then,,, hit the brake,,, fluid should come out that line. If it does,,,,its the abs
if it doesnt,,, its the master.
what I have been thinking is..... does the key have to be on to bleed the system? since the abs is electronic and it has a hydrolic pump in it. just my thought havent tried it yet. let me know what you guys think. thanks Graham
Yes the key has to be on and you must hold steady pressure on the pedal while someone else bleeds the rear brakes.
Goto the above link at nato that eric posted.
where do I get this brake bleeding module? and how much are they? thanks Graham
Hey Graham. What did you have to wind up doing to get fluid to flow out of your rear bleeder screws? You never came back and told what you had to do to solve that problem.
Vic, I ended up converting to power brakes and threw the ABS unit in the trash. there is a thread in the tech section on NATO that will walk you through the process. Since doing the swap I havent had any trouble at all, I ended up using the SVO master cylinder and a booster from an 85 bird we parted out but the parts you use are up to you. the hardest part of the swap was locating the fittings I needed to plumb it all together. Thanks
Th
I don't blame you for doing the swap Graham. When you look at how old our cars are, the ABS systems on them are living on borrowed time anyway. I'm going to run a diagnostic on my 88 TC's ABS system tomorrow to see what's wrong with it. I'm having the same problem you are. I can't get any fluid out of the rear bleeder screws WITH the key in the ignition position. I wouldn't be surprised if the diagnostic says the ABS computer, or accumulator is bad. Hell, the MC might be bad too. I'll find out tomorrow.
On another note, I'm starting to do my homework on good options for a master cylinder and a booster to swap in, so I can throw all that ABS in the trash. So far, using a master cylinder and matching booster out of a 95 Mustang GT looks like a good option. Which ever MC and booster I use, I don't want the pedal to be too hard. From reading what Darren had to say about using them on his 2 cars, I think I'll like the way the pedal feels. Since SN95 Stangs and TC's weigh about the same, my car should stop really well too. I might opt for another combo like an 85 Lincoln Town Car (or Crown Vic) MC and booster though depending on what my research turns up. Decisions, decisions.
I used the SVO MC because of its larger bore since I have rear disk.
If I do this swap, I want to be REALLY careful not to use an MC with too big of a piston/bore. I don't like a hard brake pedal. It doesn't need to be pillow soft, but I don't want to do a leg press to stop the car either. I want pedal effort to be comfortable.
I had this problem on my '93 Caddy DeVille, it has ABS also, but the problem was the master cylinder, seals were shot in it. I swapped in a known good one off my '91 DeVille and problem solved.
It's my master cylinder too. It's offical now. The ABS is coming out of the car. I bought a 95 Mustang GT master cylinder and a 93 Cobra booster today. I also ordered a manual PV from Summit. Replacing those brake parts wasn't in my budget, but you have to do what you have to do. This car should stop really well by the time I'm done installing these parts.
This is what I use to bleed the brakes on both of my cars and the '93 has ABS:
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/Ford-Three-pr0ng-Bleeder-0107_p_117.html
In short you pour new fluid in the reservoir on the pressure bleeder, hood the black cap up to the master cylinder, pressure the bleeder up to about 15 psig, and bleed the system starting at the caliper/wheel cylinder farthest away from the master cylinder. This is really nice when you want to 100% cycle the brake fluid in the system as you only need one person. It will bleed though the ABS module and I do not turn the key on when I am doing this. The ABS module I have is from a '95 GT Mustang so it may be different than the system on the TC's.
Darren
I need to get one of those pressure bleeders, That looks so much easier
I used the SVO MC and my brakes are like trying to do a leg press on a weight machine I will be going with a smaller bore MC in the near future. Even whith pressing the pedal as hard as I can I cannot get the braks to lock with the SVO MC.
Pedal feel is something I've been researching quite a bit lately. With the set up I plan to have when I'm done piecing my brake system together, I think I'll be more than happy with not only how the car stops, but also how the pedal feels. The SN95 MC I installed is designed to give a stock-feeling brake pedal when used with an SN95 booster and calipers. I just got done installing a 93 Cobra booster, which is identical to an SN95 booster except for having a Foxbody bolt pattern. If I install SN95 calipers, I'd have a brake pedal that feels the same as a brake pedal in an SN95 Stang. I plan to go one step further though. Instead of running SN95 calipers, I now intend to install dual piston PBR calipers designed for a '00 Stang GT. For the rear of my car, in plan on running '98 Cobra calipers. By running calipers in the front and back of my car that have more piston surface area than a stock SN95 set-up, that will soften the feel of my brake pedal. From all the research I've done on this combo, I'm pretty sure I'll love it.
I hate to break your bubble but the calipers on the rear of an SN95 Mustang be it a V6, GT, or Cobra are all the same Varga caliper. The V6 and GT cars have the same diameter rotor, anti-moan brackets, axle to caliper bracket adapter, and same caliper bracket. Now you probably just read that last part and are thinking WTF is the axle to caliper bracket adapter. When I did my conversion from the GT rear brakes to the Cobra rear on my '93 Coupe I learned a lot on the Mustang website before attempting the swap. The Cobra adapter is longer than the V6/GT adapter in order to accommodate the larger diameter Cobra rotor. Now the calipers themselves are physically identical and the part number cast on the calipers are identical as well. The bracket that the caliper bolts to is different between the v6/GT cars and the Cobra cars due to the increase in thickness of the Cobra rotor.
If you already have the SN95 rear setup then you can get the Cobra rear caliper brackets at AutoZone and they are about $15 each. You will need to source a set of the Cobra rear axle to caliper bracket adapters either online or in this kit from Summitt Racing:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-2300-M/
Its says GT but the rotors are 11.65" which is Cobra diameter. This kit has everything but the calipers and caliper brackets. So from here a trip to the salvage yard to source a set of V6/GT rear calipers and a trip to AutoZone and you are set.
One last word of advice, most parts stores will show that the rear pads for the V6/GT and Cobra are the same...not only wrong but way wrong. The Cobra pads are thinner to make up for the thicker Cobra rotors so pay attention here.
Darren
Wow! Someone sure did their homwork! You get my vote for MVP Darren. Thanks for clearing that up for me. You know how internet forums are. A member on Corral who seems to know his stuff on SN95 brake systems said that 98 Cobras had 41mm pistons in their rear calipers and that V6/GT rear calipers had 44mm pistons in them. I took his words as gosphel and thought the V6/GT rear calipers of that year were actually different and better than the Cobra ones.
All of the SN95 rear calipers are the same Varga units that have 38mm diameter pistons. The 94-98 Cobra and the 95 Cobra R all had 38mm X 38mm dual piston PBR front calipers. The change was in the 99-04 Cobras and they upped the fronts to 40mm X 40mm but the rears stayed the same. The Bullitt's have the same brakes as the 94-98 Cobras with the exception of them being red and the fronts having the running horse instead of "COBRA". The Mach I's also have the same brakes as the 94-98 Cobra's but they are powder coated gray and do not have any logo. Hope that clears it up.
Darren
That's good info Darren. It sure does. I found a website that goes over all that info. You, or someone else posted a link to it in an older thread. It's good reading.
Yeah, that info was plagiarized from a couple of quick searches on the net. I am just always amazed at how much info you can get on the swap/conversion and now the front calipers are no longer being made. I grabbed a spare set and put them up just in case. I know you can still get reman units at the parts stores but itshiznit and miss as to what logo you will get if any and both my cars have the "COBRA" logo on them. The Mach I's are pretty nice since there is no logo or wording which leads them to our cars pretty well.
Darren
This should be a f'kin sticky. Please.