Technical => Engine Tech => Topic started by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2010, 07:05:42 AM
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2010, 07:05:42 AM
The GT40-P engine is now officially in the car.I have to get the valve train lined out.I think I need new pushrods (different length) to install the 1.7 roller rockers,but I'm not REAL sure.Sometimes people can get away with stock length rods,sometimes not.I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to that,so,I'll be taking the car to the machine shop and let them decide what does or doesn't need to be done.After that,we'll see how she runs.For now,seems O.K. (I've been real gentle with it until I get a "feel" for it).It does have that sewing machine clatter to it,and with the new valve covers,it gets louder.LOL.This will be addressed soon when I take the car to the shop.Those guys are really good at what they do and build most of the race engines around here.News as it happens...............
Sorry,no pics right now.I didn't have the camera due to the youngest taking it on a trip.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 22, 2010, 09:38:34 AM
That is great news Vinnie! Cannot wait to hear how the new combo performs.
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: mcb82gt on April 22, 2010, 09:46:18 AM
Its a good feeling, isnt it. Congrats Vinn.
pics asap.....please.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Whiteboy on April 22, 2010, 04:15:35 PM
w00t
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: 50tbrd88 on April 22, 2010, 04:26:47 PM
Waiting for burnout vids...
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 22, 2010, 05:27:37 PM
Don't get excited yet.....The Sport is at the machine shop.They are checking to see why my exhaust push rods are going through my rocker arms. I hope to know something tomorrow.I'll post the findings when they tell me. I'm just waiting for now.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 22, 2010, 05:41:23 PM
Through your rocker arms? Care to elaborate please?
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 22, 2010, 06:07:28 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;319300
Through your rocker arms? Care to elaborate please?
Darren[/QUOTE
Yeh really, what does that mean?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Beau on April 22, 2010, 07:00:47 PM
Dang...hope the rockers are the only thing that are hurt...good luck Vin. :bowdown:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 23, 2010, 04:21:23 PM
What I meant is....the rocker end of the push rod went THROUGH the end of the rocker arm. When I pulled the rocker,the push rod was stuck through the end of it.I'm waiting to hear from the Machine shop about the cause and cure.The 1.7 Cobra rockers are in the trunk,the stamped rockers were violated bad.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Thunderhawk on April 23, 2010, 06:02:19 PM
That doesn't sound good.
Did you degree the cam, and verify TDC?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 23, 2010, 06:53:06 PM
I did not degree the cam,I did verify TDC.At this point,it doesn't matter,Performance Machine is taking on the task of getting the old girl back in fighting shape.I'm just waiting.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 04:57:58 PM
I just got home with the Sport. She's running strong....for what little driving I just did,and I didn't drive it hard.I'll fill the tank up with premium gas and see what happens.The timing is at 12 degrees right now.More news as I test the new engine.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daboss351 on April 24, 2010, 05:01:56 PM
awesome vin!! I guess i missed alot!!
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 24, 2010, 05:05:23 PM
What was the deal with the stamped rocker arms and did you have to get different push rods?
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 05:59:14 PM
The push rods were right,the rocker arms (stamped steel) are fine,but the springs were causing the issue on the exhaust side.He installed all new rods,and had to do something with the spring seats.....whatever they did,it worked great.I was half listening when he was talking due to the wife calling,and he was on the way out to spend time with the family (he came in just to finish the Sport......awesome guy). I owe him a Strawberry milkshake as payment.I can do that.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: daboss351;319544
awesome vin!! I guess i missed alot!!
Yes,I should say so.The Sport has had some changes,engine,wheels,some other stuff.Others have done a lot as well.You need to catch up.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: massCougarxr7 on April 24, 2010, 06:07:18 PM
pics pics pics ..... ive needed a good bird cat fix for a while... ive felt like somethings been missing the past few months,.... noow i know im a fox catbird junkie......
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 06:16:43 PM
Sorry,no pics.....I can't upload pics for some reason anymore on this computer.Until I figure it out,I can't do it.I'll try through my wife's account.
Going to try now......stay tuned.........................
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 06:49:46 PM
Got one !!! I had to go through an ordeal,but here it is.It's filthy from all the trouble shooting and I need to polish it up (tomorrow) then I'll get a nicer shot.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daboss351 on April 24, 2010, 09:50:55 PM
im very jeloues vin. you have done a great job with the old girl!
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Watchdevil on April 24, 2010, 10:26:02 PM
Very Cool Vinnie!
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 10:33:48 PM
Thanks a lot. When I get everything clean I'll post up some pics (now that I can use the wife's account). I did manage to get the a/c bracket,steering pump,and compressor together. Turned out great. I'll grab a pic of that as well.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Chooglin on April 24, 2010, 10:36:55 PM
looks real good !!!!!!.......................me likes :bowdown:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 24, 2010, 10:37:10 PM
It's odd that the pushrods went through the rocker arms. I don't think I've ever heard of that.
Are you running 24lb injectors with the new engine? If so what MAF are you running?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 10:47:03 PM
I'll be using the 24's as soon as I get an aftermarket meter. I'll post a pic of the rod through the rocker. I'm keeping it as a souvenier.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 24, 2010, 10:50:17 PM
I still can't figure out how the pushrods punched through the rocker arms. The stock rocker arms look pretty sturdy. (http://images.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/p67255_image_large.jpg)
Maybe if the pushrods were too long they might damage the rockers.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 24, 2010, 10:58:58 PM
Apparently the stock lifters are stronger than the stock rocker arms.Pics tomorrow.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Quietleaf on April 24, 2010, 11:59:40 PM
One reason I stuck with stock lifters is because steel has better metal fatigue characteristics than aluminum. Steel only fatigues down to a certain point; aluminum will fatigue until it fails (or so I've read).
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 12:10:13 AM
I just sold my Cobra rockers.I'm getting a set of 1.6 roller rockers soon for the Sport.For now,the stamped rockers will work.I'm using stock lifters as well.Next week,I'll start looking for new roller rockers.For now,I need to pour in about 20 gallons of premium gas and go for a drive.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: 88turbo on April 25, 2010, 09:23:19 AM
hey vinnie, can I ride along? :D
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 09:45:04 AM
Sure,why not? I'd love to get a big T-bird/Cougar convoy going .That would be a sight to see. I have to do a few things first.I'm going to spray the dirt and week of filth off shortly and begin the long process of cleaning.I also have to dial in the clutch cable as well.That's all easy stuff now.The hardest part is over,and I'm glad to be driving the Bird again. My trunk is mildly cluttered (that drives me crazy).I like it clean like a new car.I need to vacuum,wash and wax,detail under the hood.....and more.I suppose I'll start with the trunk,and slowly work my way forward.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Clintd on April 25, 2010, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: thunderjet302;319606
I still can't figure out how the pushrods punched through the rocker arms. The stock rocker arms look pretty sturdy. (http://images.mustang50magazine.com/techarticles/p67255_image_large.jpg)
Maybe if the pushrods were too long they might damage the rockers.
If the pushrod is clogged it will ware through a rocker in no time. Also if you have some nice heavy valve springs and frequently rev and hold it at 6k you could damage a rocker. (Ask me how I know? LOL)
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:41:16 AM
The pushrods weren't clogged at all.It was the springs.There was no revving at all.....but there will be now.LOL. But not until I clean the Sport.I can't cruise until a wash and wax are done,and a little polish on the intake is applied. Besides,a good bath always makes her feel better. We've had a traumatic week.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: V8Demon on April 25, 2010, 04:45:24 PM
Find out what had to be done to the seat.....
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 06:01:00 PM
I'll give Ray (the owner) a call and get the details.i think with the "P" heads they need some exhaust spring seat milling to fit them on right.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 25, 2010, 06:05:58 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;319696
I'll give Ray (the owner) a call and get the details.i think with the "P" heads they need some exhaust spring seat milling to fit them on right.
They did a lot of work on mine to get the springs right
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daddybair7 on April 25, 2010, 06:12:53 PM
Even though the engine is dirty it looks great vinnie. congrats hope the girl is happy with her new powerplant :burnout:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 06:28:58 PM
She's happy,and not perfectly clean,the engine is a LOT cleaner now than when I woke up this morning.I also repainted the strut tower brace after my boy wet sanded it,and just installed it minutes ago.Pics tomorrow.I need to make up some kind of small,simple,yet effective graphic for the front edge of the brace.Just small letters,or whatever that one may not even notice right at first.I have some small Thunderbird "birds" but that seems to easy,and,I want something no-one else has.I'll break out a pencil and paper and come up with something this evening. I have to be careful,whatever I come up with has to "fir".Not just random .
Jerry,they had to mill the spring seats,and I'm unsure what else they did.I'll have that info hopefully tomorrow.Are they porting yours?What all is being done to yours?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:03:25 PM
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 25, 2010, 10:03:42 PM
they ground the springs and milled the seats quite a bit on mine. I didn't have them ported when I had them done. But I might see about it with this guy while he has them and my motor. He's putting the heads on for me and make sure everything's working right with all the new upgrades. We'll see what he thinks. He already told me I need to go Mass air or it won't run right. I told him I was 1 step ahead of him already.
As another teaser.... these are going in the rebuild. Along with I beam connecting rods. ;) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIS-K229A3/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIS-K229A3/")
Edit: sorry, I pasted the wrong one... it's these, not the other set http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIS-PT013H3/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/WIS-PT013H3/")
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:24:44 PM
HOLY !!!! You ARE spending the cash !!! Your pistons cost more than I have in the entire engine....including the head work.Go Jerry Go !!!!
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: 32VFoxBird on April 25, 2010, 10:30:49 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;319696
I'll give Ray (the owner) a call and get the details.i think with the "P" heads they need some exhaust spring seat milling to fit them on right.
It isn't a "p" head thing. It's any stock ford head with rotaters on the exhaust valve. You changed springs with the same heighth on the intake and exhaust. The seats on the exhaust springs will require maching to get the proper install height.
I take it this isn't the same place you had the head work done on?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 25, 2010, 10:32:27 PM
LOL.... I don't want the car to fart and burp after all that work I did to it. Here's the connecting rods http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5090FB/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5090FB/")
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:44:27 PM
Quote from: 32VFoxBird;319746
It isn't a "p" head thing. It's any stock ford head with rotaters on the exhaust valve. You changed springs with the same heighth on the intake and exhaust. The seats on the exhaust springs will require maching to get the proper install height.
I take it this isn't the same place you had the head work done on?
It is the same place.The difference this time,Ray did the work (he's the owner,and really good at what he does). He builds most of the race engines around here.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:46:12 PM
Quote from: daminc;319747
LOL.... I don't want the car to fart and burp after all that work I did to it. Here's the connecting rods http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5090FB/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ESP-5090FB/")
Are you mad at me Jerry?Did I do something wrong?You're killing me.LOL.
I will hope to see some dyno numbers when it's done.I'll get the Sport dynoed as soon as I can get it done.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 25, 2010, 10:52:59 PM
one last tease..... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/")
I need to build it this way for a reason. It should have 8.8:1 compression, he said
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 10:58:45 PM
Supercharger.......I hope to do that next year. What are the spec differences between that and the Stage 1 trick Flow cam?I think that one you picked out is a little more cam.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 25, 2010, 11:17:21 PM
It's supposed to be the equal to the stage 1, but summit will make an entire upgrade/rebuild kit for a motor using CCams. I originally was going to use a stage 1, but after putting the kit together with everything I needed, I would save hundreds if I used this brand cam with the kit. the connecting rods would have had to be machined for the forged pistons because of the bolt sizes, so in reality, it only costed about $50 more to put in the I-beam rods as opposed to machining mine to work.. The cam may be a wee bit more aggressive... probably another reason he told me I needed to use mass air. I said he put one in another car and it had to be upgraded to mass air also. He couldn't keep it running more then a couple mins.
And yes, a supercharger is in the future for the car. thats why all the welding/bracing, battle boxes, and extra frame.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 25, 2010, 11:24:41 PM
As I said above,I'm really curious about the rear wheel HP of that engine in your car.....pre-supercharger.300 maybe? I plan on having SFC's installed eventually.The list for the Sport is still full of things to do,but,I'm getting closer by the month.Oh well,I have forever to get it done I suppose. A/C,seats,and window tint are next.I'll deal with the rest after that.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 26, 2010, 09:42:27 AM
Quote from: daminc;319752
one last tease..... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/ (http://"http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-35-308-8/")
I need to build it this way for a reason. It should have 8.8:1 compression, he said
Quote from: daminc;319757
It's supposed to be the equal to the stage 1, but summit will make an entire upgrade/rebuild kit for a motor using CCams. I originally was going to use a stage 1, but after putting the kit together with everything I needed, I would save hundreds if I used this brand cam with the kit. the connecting rods would have had to be machined for the forged pistons because of the bolt sizes, so in reality, it only costed about $50 more to put in the I-beam rods as opposed to machining mine to work.. The cam may be a wee bit more aggressive... probably another reason he told me I needed to use mass air. I said he put one in another car and it had to be upgraded to mass air also. He couldn't keep it running more then a couple mins.
And yes, a supercharger is in the future for the car. thats why all the welding/bracing, battle boxes, and extra frame.
The Comp 35-308-8 cam you have listed is the same cam I'm running. It will run fine with speed density as I ran it with speed density for over a year. I went to MAF to solve a bit of an hot idle issue I had. It would stall when put into gear when started hot with SD unless you kept your foot in the gas. Plus I had to set the hot idle in park to at least 1000 rpm to keep it running. After the MAF conversion it's been running great with no more idle issues.
Just an FYI. If you are running that cam with the GT40P heads and a GT40 style intake and are going MAF you may want to look at 24lb injectors pre supercharger. With 19s and the stock fuel pressure I was getting pretty close to 100% duty cycle over 4500 rpms.
Oh and there is a reason that the Comp cam alone costs more than the Trickflow/FRPP cams. The cam is made of a much better grade SADI core. Yes most aftermarket roller cams are not billet like the stock HO cam.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 26, 2010, 09:51:14 AM
My experience has been anything at or over 300 fwhp you should move up to larger injectors. The 24's I had on my coupe got me right at 306 rwhp but they were on the ragged edge. A buddy had some 42 lb/hr injectors so we swapped them in and the car finished the day on the dyno at 318 rwhp with no other changes. Just my .02.
The car has a stock 2001 GT mass air meter and an SCT chip so swapping to the 42 lb/hr units was a matter of pulling the chip and dumping in the tables for the larger injectors.
Here is a site with an injector calculator that will get you in the ball park:
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 26, 2010, 03:32:43 PM
I do believe this is Vinnie's thread, I'm not sure who the above post is meant for! Vinnie or ic?But 306 rwp, at 24 inj. is not bad. As for ic's secret for his build, it ain't so much a secret anymore!
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Whiteboy on April 26, 2010, 03:51:15 PM
I wanna go for a drive with other tbirds, I'm tired of not seeing others....
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 26, 2010, 04:47:43 PM
It was just general information as the subject had been brought up. Thought it would be good information to anyone reading the thread and was not meant as a hijack.
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2010, 04:49:20 PM
I've got a set of 24's from an LT-1 engine.I still have to find an aftermarket Mass Air meter/sensor for the car.After last week,and the few little things you always have to get during an engine swap,my funds are GONE.Luckily,I'll be back in the swing of things soon.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2010, 04:50:26 PM
Hey Kitz,what do you estimate the power output of the new engine to be? I have no idea.I hope to get to a dyno soon.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 26, 2010, 06:19:19 PM
I was just giving a teaser of what I'm doing....Vinnie already knew what I had going into mine. There are many other things that I'm not telling anyone about, so there's still a secret to be kept....
Vinnie, it would be close between mine and yours, ,so I would also be very interested in what kind of power you have created. I figure I'll just subtract at least 25 off your total HP for lack of building knowledge on my part. lol.... and that's what I'll end up with. lol. My car might not be super fast. But it's shiny. :rollin:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2010, 06:25:34 PM
I have a severe lack of knowledge on engines as well.LOL.I think the 5 speed allows a few more horses to the rear,but,the dyno is the only way to see the numbers other than hitting the track.....which I may do this year.We'll see what happens.I'm looking to get a new set of roller rockers this week,install them,and go from there.Jerry,have you ever thought of moving to southern Oklahoma?You'll love the heat.The humidity is killer,but you get used to it.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: V8Demon on April 26, 2010, 06:26:16 PM
Quote
Yes most aftermarket roller cams are not billet like the stock HO cam.
The stocker wasn't billet either....Ask Jay Allen
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: daminc on April 26, 2010, 06:36:01 PM
Quote from: vinnietbird;319861
Jerry,have you ever thought of moving to southern Oklahoma?You'll love the heat.The humidity is killer,but you get used to it.
Not really, but we were thinking about Northern New Mexico... very low humidity for my arthritis. ;)
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
I'm still happy with my cam....however it was made. I think Comp,Trick Flow,Ford racing....all of them are probably pretty high quality.I wouldn't have a concern with any of them.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: xjeffs on April 26, 2010, 09:08:01 PM
Very cool Vinnie. Just caught up with this thread. I'm a big believer in the GT40P.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Haystack on April 26, 2010, 10:21:43 PM
I have heard that there are suposedly billet H.O. cams. I guess the 94-95 gt's got them.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 26, 2010, 10:57:31 PM
Quote from: xjeffs;319888
Very cool Vinnie. Just caught up with this thread. I'm a big believer in the GT40P.
Thanks a lot.I'm still getting the feel of the engine.So far,I'm a fan as well.It's well behaved so far (in the 10 or so miles I've put on it),and idles great.I just need new roller rockers (coming soon I hope).
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 27, 2010, 10:54:07 AM
Quote from: V8Demon;319862
The stocker wasn't billet either....Ask Jay Allen
Hmm I thought the stock HO cam was billet. My bad:hick:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: hypostang on April 27, 2010, 02:42:11 PM
Quote from: thunderjet302;319943
Hmm I thought the stock HO cam was billet. My bad:hick:
According to Ford it is ...personally I have no idea
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: V8Demon on April 27, 2010, 03:05:14 PM
Ford uses the nomenclature "hardened" IIRC.....
Quote
Anyway....... before that FACT gets the :bs: flag, here are side-by-side pictures of a SADI core camshaft that had a little mishap and a 1995 5.0L HO stock camshaft for a visual comparison of the core material.
The ZE engraving shown below, confirms that in fact it is a stock HO camshaft, and it did come out of a 1995 engine....... I was the one that replaced it with a Crane 2040 (the billet version of the E-303).
Now.... here is the information regarding the F4ZE-6250-DA BILLET core HO camshaft........
Quote
Due to a change in its material, the 1995 5-liter H.O. Mustang cam was assigned this new F4ZE part number. Otherwise, it is the same grind as the previous (1991-1994) version it replaced.
The F1ZE-6250-AA HO camshaft is the HP part number it replaced :btw: .
Time to formulate the obvious questions for the "SADI is good enough" gang...... :ahprepare:
1. If SADI is good enough...... why did :ford2: go billet core on the last year the 5.0L engine would be used for the Mustang?
2. If it was the last year for the 5.0L HO OHV engine option..... why did :ford2: go through the process and cost to make a different part number camshaft, with the ONLY change being the :qunq: more expensive billet core?
3. Since the camshaft events, lobes profile, lift, etc did not change (as in made more aggressive)..... why did :ford2: determine the need to go billet core with the HO cam? :whothr:
4. Wonder what core material was used in the Explorer 5.0's ..... based on the price difference of an OEM replacement with a 1993 Mustang for a stock replacement from Ford ($429.95 vs $362.51) :rubeyes:..... could it be "speculated" that Explorer 5.0L camshafts are also billet core? :wonder:...... :btw:.... those are actual list prices from Ford.
Interesting, isn't it?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: hypostang on April 27, 2010, 03:16:39 PM
I was under the impression that the HO cam was machined from a solid hunk (or billet ) of steel not cast iron like regular cams and that's why distributor gears are an issue . Or so I was told back when I worked at the Ford dealership back in the 80's and early 90's
I'm a little sketchy on what the definition of "billet" actually is , according to my brother the machinist, its a term used to describe a solid hunk 'o metal :hick:
, Like I said I have no idea personally , nor is it a big deal as long as the vehicle runs ;)
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: V8Demon on April 27, 2010, 03:21:29 PM
Read the above post.....I just added to it as per SBFtech.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: hypostang on April 27, 2010, 03:31:57 PM
Ok , I have never actually seen an HO cam in real life but what I was told was what what I posted . If I ever lay my hands on an HO cam I'll compare it to the above post :D
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 27, 2010, 10:45:26 PM
Well,I drove the Sport about 50 miles today.Everything seemed fine.I still hear a little bit of a sewing machine sound from the valvetrain.Maybe I'm not used to it,or maybe the valve covers (new ones) are embellishing the sound and making it louder.I still haven't pushed it hard yet,I'm working up to it.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: hypostang on April 27, 2010, 11:43:59 PM
Excellent!!, I have noticed the "sewing machine noise" in some 5.0's before but I never asked what caused it :hick:
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 28, 2010, 06:54:06 AM
Everything appears to be running as it should.I do think the thinner metal valve covers are making the sound more pr0nounced.I may swap covers again.But not right now unless a deal comes along for a pair I want.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Whiteboy on April 28, 2010, 08:41:34 AM
haha you need to take that thing over here and have some fun on Test and Tune friday at Ozark International Drag
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: jcassity on April 28, 2010, 09:09:36 AM
if the motor is right, there shouldnt be any noise. think about it.
-remove pass valve cover -remove #5 or #6 spark plug -rotate engine until #5 or #6 piston comes up -its best to rotate crank till both rockers are loose (#5 tdc) -use screwdriver or dowel to feel for the piston
-remove spring keepers via correct tool or socket / hammer trick -valves should drop down a little and touch piston top -place small zip tie around the top of the valves in the keeper knotch
-get your air hose and rubber trigger nozzel ready or.. -use a rubber hose that fits the threads on the spark plug hole. -add air to cylinder, just a tiny bit at a time while holding the valves up. -If you can, place socket/breaker bar in a situation where crank can not turn, ie- put crank in a bind using the floor or frame. -after air is added, you should be able to let go of the valves until air bleeds off
The above just tells us the valves are seating and the goal is to see if they are not.
probably faults if they are not: -valve stem worn in such a way the valve is pen 15eyed -seat grind isnt perfectly cut (poss 3 angle grind needed).
To check the stem seals themselves, I dont know. Obviously if there were wobble, you would have had push rods poping out or lots of noise.
Another thing comes to mind is lubrication.
if the square head plugs along the rear of the block were not removed and the horizontal oil ports were not cleaned out, there may be blockage to the lifters, blockage from the results of the old engine oil circulation.
i wish these oil ports were available on the front of the motor so we could install a guage and measure pressure at the crank and say "thats a good reading", then measure pressure at the lifter runners and say "now why is that pressure low on this side?" Meanwhile at the oil sensor, all reads well because some ports are good.
I never understood the oil flow drawings of a block but what i see a lot of times tells me that the sensor will be reading 3 parallel branches of oil presure, thus not really telling you all chennels in the engine have good flow (ie- crank channel, left bank lifer channel and right bank lifter channel). Thats why there are three plugs on the back of the block.
if the oil channels were in series, then the sensor would have no choice but to be accurate.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: 88CougarGT on April 28, 2010, 11:55:51 AM
Ouch, what happened to that other cam?
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 28, 2010, 04:31:15 PM
What is the
Quote
sewing machine sound
you speak of? I've never heard it. Is it a louder noise from the valve train? I can't hear the valve train on my 5.0 unless I put my head near a valve cover. Perhaps the higher lift cam makes more noise. Are your headers tight? If they are loose they could make a noise as the exhaust leaks.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 28, 2010, 06:18:17 PM
No,it's not the exhaust.I think that the stamped rocker arms make a little noise (I'll double check the bolts on the rockers in a few days),and,I think the valve covers I have do nothing to subdue the valve train noise.It's not a loud noise at all.Just the ticking of the valve train.
I did take the car down Main Street about 10 minutes ago,and at the red light,I was just listening to the exhaust (between the buildings in town,it sounded really nice,and when the light went to green,I let it go.....two beautiful black mark 3/4 down the block.The engine didn't feel like it was trying very hard,and it seemed effortless.All is good.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Aerocoupe on April 28, 2010, 07:25:04 PM
The noise is most likely due to a higher than stock lift cam, higher closed and open spring pressures, more efficient heads, etc. It all promotes higher velocities through the heads and an overall noisier valve train. Both my cars had valve train noise and I must have ran the valves a dozen times to no avail. Talked to a couple of good engine builders and they agreed that it is just the nature of running high lift cams with steep slopes which require higher spring pressures. I did notice my Coupe got even louder when I switched to the aluminum heads. This is all just my experience with the motors in my cars.
Darren
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: thunderjet302 on April 28, 2010, 07:35:11 PM
How loud is it? If you can hear it with the hood closed sitting in the car then it's loud. Like I said I can hear my valve train only with the hood open and putting my head near a valve cover. With the hood closed all I hear is the exhaust. I do have those thick cast aluminum COBRA valve covers though, which might dampen the sound;)
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: Haystack on April 28, 2010, 08:10:38 PM
I would assume you shouldn't be able to hear any valve train at all. I can't on any car I've ever driven, except for the new motor I put 10 miles on and didn't set it up properly.
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: V8Demon on April 28, 2010, 11:23:44 PM
Quote from: Aerocoupe;320114
The noise is most likely due to a higher than stock lift cam, higher closed and open spring pressures, more efficient heads, etc. It all promotes higher velocities through the heads and an overall noisier valve train. Both my cars had valve train noise and I must have ran the valves a dozen times to no avail. Talked to a couple of good engine builders and they agreed that it is just the nature of running high lift cams with steep slopes which require higher spring pressures. I did notice my Coupe got even louder when I switched to the aluminum heads. This is all just my experience with the motors in my cars.
Darren
Stamped steel valve covers will allow more noise than an aluminum cover as well. ;) A simple matter of sound deadening. IIRC the later Ford stamped steel covers are dual walled to help shield against this....
Title: Got it in.....UPDATE today......
Post by: vinnietbird on April 29, 2010, 07:04:36 AM
I think a lot of it has to do with the covers actually.I am swapping them again anyway.These are really nice,but not fitting the overall look I was wanting.Back to the drawing board.The power is certainly there.