Fox T-Bird/Cougar Forums

i need some input... I changed my tfi that was taking a . It would just totally cut out then come back, and sometimes it would just die altogether. So i let it cool then it would restart. So changed the tfi and all was good till today....  Went to lunch then come out and car wouldn't start:mad:. So i wait till it cooled like last time and still no fire. And when i scanned the engine comp i got code 14 irratic (sp) pip. And that was the only part i never changed. So i changed it today got the engine retimed and it did fire but stalled so i turnd the dizzy twards the engine to give it a little more and i got nothing. It will crank all day long just won't start. So i thought timing was screwy so i got the timing mark on the balencer at 0, and got the cam marks lined up so it was at tdc got the rotor button pointing at #1 plug wire on the cap. and still nothing. Now i replaced the coil, pip, tfi, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and ign switch. So im lost here guys... Please help the car still sits where it quit. So is there anything i missed?

Is it getting fuel????

Is the timing 180 degrees out, meaning are you TDC exhaust stroke instead of compression?

My TC did this and it was the fuel pump...the first time.  The second time the PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup) in the distributor went out.  I pulled the distributor and replaced the PIP and the hall affect sensor as both require the distributor to be completely torn down.  Be sure you are using the white goo (thermal paste) between the TFI module and the body of the distributor as this is what allow the heat transfer from the TFI to the aluminum body of the distributor.  Without the paste they die early deaths.  If you do not have any Radio Shack carries some as it is the same stuff used between the processor and cooling fan in computers.

A way to check the distributor function is to pull it out of the engine, reattach the cap, and TFI wiring harness.  Turn the ignition to the "run" position and spin the distributor by hand.  You should be able to hear the injectors pulse.  This is how I determined the fuel pump was shot on my car.  It would prime but not build any pressure.

Another thing I have heard of is the little piece of fuel line between the pump and the pickup assembly getting old and cracking.  With the engine off the pump may be able to produce enough pressure on a gauge to appear to be good but will not be able to provide enough volume or pressure under cranking or running conditions.

Good luck!

Darren

i hear the pump run when i tuen the key and after a few seconds of cranking i do smell gas so i would say yes... and as for 180 out no its on tdc. i pulled #1 plug to find compression.

was the rotor at the right spot when you were at TDC on #1?
did you disconnect the spout connector before you started playing with the timing?
was the car warm when you did this?
i had to do mine without a timing gun when i replaced the PIP sensor.
basically played with it untill i could get it to run smooth, start fully retarded and work your way up.

have you checked for spark?

"Never go full retard!" (Tropic thunder)
:hick:
You got spark at the plugs?
If you put some gas in the TB will it kick over and run?

how many miles you got on that motor? could it be the timing chain?

remove #1 spark plug
stuff hole with slightly damp paper towel
bump engine just barely until you hear the paper shoot out
verify your crank is coming around to 0 on the timing pointer
rotate engine the rest of the way to zero
stuff a small hose in number 1 plug hole and blow
if you can not blow air in, both valves are closed , therefore your on tdc #1

now..........
take off rotor cap and peek under and verify rotor pointing to number1 plug post.
if not, re-drop dizzy.

also.........
when your crank is on zero to the pointer, rotate the crank cw or ccw to the point when you just feel it bind but go no further.
the pointer will now be pointing at a degree on the harmonic.

convert that amount of degrees to inches and you now have your total slack in your timing chain.


your problem with setting the dizzy in is that you may have a little too much slack in the chain which is allowing the cam to lag the crank by a tooth and therefore your forward or backward on tooth on your dizzy.

thats why its always best to set the dizzy in a condition you create in the engines normal rotation *and* if you need to adjust the crank to let the dizzy drop, you rotate the crank the **opposite** direction to allow the dizzy to fall in the correct tooth.

with all the above babble being said, the root cause of a bad dizzy drop typically falls back to the oil pump shaft.  Its fighting you when you drop the dizzy because its not in line with everything else.
when you know for a fact the dizzy is correct but you have managed to compensate by rotating the rotor button a little, its time to stop.
you must use your oil pump shaft to slightly rotate the oil pump cw or ccw a little bit to help things drop in.

when you drop the dizzy, there are three things getting lined up
crank to cam with repect to number 1 cyl
rotor button orientation
oil pump shaft orintantion to the hex shaped hole in the pump itself.
find a socket that fits the oil pump shaft.
find a long extention
just drop the oil pump shaft down in the pump by stuffing one end of it into a vac hose which should be atleast 12'' long.
make sure the hose is not on real tight as you need to sort of rotate the hose off the pump shaft in order to get it off.
simply use your socket to rotate the oil pump shaft cw or  ccw and test your new location by dropping the dizzy.

dont forget though, if you think things are not lined up perfect, your probably right.


hope that helps.

I think you better get a dry erase board so you can list all the things to check!  This is some great tech guys!!!

Darren

yeah ive got her all fixed up! It was my new wires that had the issue more like the coil wire. So changed the wire and boom she starts. but thanks guys! oh and its a timing belt not chain.

Did you replace all of the stuff mentioned in the first post at the same time you replace the TFI or after you started to have problems?  The way I read it I thought all of that was done after you put the new TFI on.  Not saying I would have said "Oh, its the plug wires" but more for clarification.

Anyhow, that is great news!  I guess new parts can still fail out of the box...sucks though.

Darren

yeah the tfi did. but with all the new parts it should run awsome right?..... Well not so.... It will start and run good till bout 3000 rpm then it feels like it runs out of steam. and i can only muster bout 5 lbs of boost. before it would run beautiful when i changed the plug wires. i could get 10 lbs of boost and i loved it. But now its like someone flipped a switch and now i can't even go 55 with it. what would cause this?

I am not sure what you mean by "yeah the tfi did."

What kind of fuel pressure does the car have when you start coming up on boost?  Are you sure the timing belt has not slipped a tooth?

Darren

im positive it hasent because if it did there would be a puppies of belt missing and i have found none. and i took the one tfi i had put on had it tested and it did fail. So i had it warenteed and now its a new one on there that works. Plus last night comming home from work the car was running 45 mph at 2000rpm and if were to try to go faster the car would buck like crazy. Almost like it was running out of spark. i wonder if the coil wire i have on there now (used) could be the culprit.

My old 85 TC slipped on tooth on the timing belt but it was not that bad.  It was just down on power and had bad fuel mileage.

Darren

You won't make boost if the exhaust can't flow, Maybe a clogged cat. Just throwing that out there. did you try running codes?

I had a similar problem with my 88 turbocoupe.I installed accel wires and a brass terminal cap.When I would take off from a light,the car would accelerate hard then buck and fall flat on its face.I went to Ford and purchased the stock Motorcraft wires,and never had a problem again,even at 21 psi!

ok i changed plug wires (again) fuel filter, And still bucking and no acceleration. I do have pix of how it is timed right now but i have to upload them. And as far as cats..... i don't have any. and the cam marks line right up. So no jumping a tooth. ok now heres the pix....

did you clear the computer, and check for a vac leak? The line that goes to the cruise servo might be damaged ( if you have one) it rubs on the frame through the fender wall

cleared all codes but i didn't check that vac line... Will do when daylight breaks too dark now. before i got 2 codes code 81 and 83. 83 was the one im confused on. 81 i know is the ircm that has all the wires messed up to. I should see if anyone has a good engine harness for the tc.

I could be wrong i even went out and looked at my TC ,But the rotor shouldn't it be pointing towards the intake bolt in the lower right corner of the lower pic to be TDC on #1 cyl. But ur dizzy does look like its turned about 45* out

do you mean the body of the dizzy or the rotor button? if so could you get pics so i can compare yours to mine so i can get mine reset?

did you gap your plugs to .032-.036?  also check your TPS voltage by probing the green wire for power and the black one for ground, time the engine to 10* with the spout disconnected, pull the vacuum line off of the FPR and see if it smells of gas..  if so its bad.

give me a few ill take some pics and try to post for ya

tps is brand new but i can check it when i put a fresh bat in my meter. Plus i have to do a final time on it but i need to get it running right first ya know. and i can check that vac line in the am.

had similar problems a while back but I cant remember what I did to fix it.  are you running autolite 764 plugs?  they seem to work the best in the TC's  and also the motorcraft plug wires

voltage on the TPS needs to be between .97v and .99v  also check to make sure your intercooler couplers are tight

well i know the couplers are tight cuz i had the ic off to change the plug wires. and yes im running the 764's.

hey daddybair7 you could always email me the pics its beretta9075@hotmail.com

if u look at my dizzy compaired to yours. The postion of the tfi and the #1 cyl. i tryed to draw in red hard to see but it may or may not be the problem. hope it helps

yeah it does. thanks.

i sent u an e-mail too

cool thanks. Now i need a good diagram on how the plug wires are supose to run. Because looking at yours i think the engine is trying to run off #2 cylinder and not #1. So that is possibly my running issues.

anouther e-mail on the plug wires

cool thanks.

Hey John, any news today?

yeah i have been driving the car all day!!! Thanks daddybair7 for the pics they were very useful. Basically what happened is the plug wires were on backwards from the previous owner so when i went to do the wires the first time they were still messed up. But once i got all the old sensors changed that made it run bad then the messed up wires decided to make it run like . So i got the wires all straightened out as daddybair7 sent me. Re dropped the dizzy got it close for timing then she started right up. Took it down the road and man runs a hell of alot better than it used to. So i dug out the timing lite and got her zeroed in at *10. But now i really need a boost controller. The turbo spools but it spools very slowly. i want it to come on a little quicker. But thats the news for today.

sorry bout my mistake on the timing chain, i cant read:hick:

You can still be off one tooth on the dizzy and still be able to compensate by how you adjust the dizzy housing.  Atleast thats what everyone else says although Ive never been that luck, ive always had to be dead on or my motors run a little weak.

I'd double check by rotating the crank by hand and when you get to zero and #1 TDC, verify the orientation of the rotor button with respect to #1 plug wire post.

I had a similar problem when I changed out my wires because the #1 position as it should have been marked on the cap was not actually #1 and all the wires were all one position off.

Cougar8775, im glad it worked out for ya. Get the turbo running and enjoy.