Technical => Drivetrain Tech => Topic started by: thunderjet302 on March 09, 2010, 09:42:21 PM
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 09, 2010, 09:42:21 PM
So my AOD is getting rebuilt in two weeks (yippee :D) and I can't wait. It's getting the following done:
Hardened 1 piece non lock-up input shaft High rev governor 7 tooth speedo drive gear Rialto heavy duty clutches A custom valve body with the epoxy mod.
Here's the odd part: The converter is going to be a 2800 rpm stall. I'm going to run a Precision Industries Stallion converter and they recommended a 2800 stall converter based on the engine, rear gear, and vehicle weight (remember it has every option but a sun roof and is a 3500lb fatty).
My question is has anyone driven one of these cars with a 2800 stall converter? I know it should be fine on the street but I'm wondering if I'm going to be burning the out of the rear tires with too much throttle:hick: I'm just wondering how it behaves in traffic and normal driving.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: Clintd on March 11, 2010, 12:33:33 AM
I have a FRP 3000 stall in my MN12 and it's fine on the street. My car weighs 3,840.
Just make sure you run a real good trans cooler, especially if you are getting rid of the direct drive.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 11, 2010, 09:48:51 AM
Daaaaaaamn that's gonna be a nice tranny haha. Especially the epoxy mod that's sick. Are you doing the electronic switch for OD thing? Or just leaving it up to keeping your foot down? lol
The converter that someone on clickclick hooked me up with, was purported to be about 2400 rpm like I said I wanted...but ended up being 2800-3000. :rollin: Let me tell you the thing is a BLAAAAST. Now...youll have to kinda get used to the "rubbery" feel of it at say 40 mph and 2000 ish rpm, it'll rev up more without moving forward accordingly if you just ease into the pedal. Think of it like going to a go-kart place at an amusp00get park, the ones with the little 9 horsepower honda power equipment engines. They have those centrifugal clutches on em and half the time they're beat to shiznit. Kiiiinda like that, just not *as* bad.
But of course, when you're at a dead stop, and you firewall it, don't expect to get traction anytime soon. ;) That 300 lb-ft of torque is a lotta fun when its applied immediately. Best thing ever....go through an EZ-Pass/Fast Lane/whatever you guys have, so you have to slow down to 5-10 mph, then STOMP it. Make sure your head is against the headrest!!!!
And yes, get a good cooler. Get one of the black stacked plate ones, make sure it's say a foot sqaure in surface area. I have two of em in series they're 3/4 that big if that. Im a paranoid freak, and having one didn't cool it enough for me. I had a fluke temp meter on it for awhile and it would always slowly climb to 180-190. I know that's not destruction but I want a solid 160 all the time lol.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 11, 2010, 10:04:36 AM
So if I drive it like a granny I won't destroy my $500 Firehawks any time soon.:hick:
So it will just rev a bit with low throttle pressure? So if I'm not paying attention to the tach I really won't notice it?
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 11, 2010, 03:21:46 PM
Yup it's not gonna fly right up to the stall speed but enough that you notice it, because of course with the stock stall it almost feels like there is a direct engagement. Any RPM increase at all makes the car move right forward with it, even just nudging the gas. It took me a week or two to get fully used to it, and then the car seems perfectly normal. The other thing is that you won't have lock-up, as do (don't) I. That's the only time you're actually going to get weirded out a little by it. In OD, you'll pretty much be able to ease the gas down until the engine almost reaches stall or maybe it will downshift before that point but youll notice with that gear ratio, instead of it holding the engine back...the slippage of the converter will just let the engine rev up a few hundred rpm more. Of course, once you come close to the stall speed it wont anymore and if you're going fast enough that it's above, it pretty much doesn't slip at all from there on up.
What's also fun is creepin' along and just stabbing the gas abrputly on and off, yanking the front end and torquing the whole car lol. Makes me feel like it's some built-up muscle car. :hick:
That's gonna be a whole new car to drive. I'm sure the place isn't driving the pressure through the roof like I set my shift kit up but I bet once or twice on the right kind of smooth road you'll chirp the tires into 2nd...it gets addicting. ;):evilgrin:
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 11, 2010, 04:24:35 PM
You will be fine, but definably use a trans cooler, non lock up generates more heat. You do mean non lock up converter don't you?
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: V8Demon on March 11, 2010, 05:54:31 PM
Don't fear the stall speed. Don't fear a big cooler either. I'm switching to an even larger one.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: mcb82gt on March 11, 2010, 07:08:08 PM
I havent heard of the epoxy mod, anyone have a link or info on it??
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 11, 2010, 07:17:20 PM
Honestly it's not something *I* would want personally. Yes a manual 2nd gear with a guarantee of no chance of smoking your tranny is nice...but you lose the ability to lock out OD. Once you reach a speed that OD will engage in, the instant you let off the gas it will go into OD. Now...if I had a wider 2" super-duper kevlar or whatever OD band and bumped-up OD servo pressure, I'd be less worried but the constant OD-3rd/3rd-OD shifting I would be worried about given the likely wear and tear on the OD band. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad. I am a little bit (little!?) of a paranoid freak about that kinda thing.
If that's the shift pattern you'd like thunderjet, by all means. :D Some people love the epoxy mod. Many have done it. Comes down to personal preference in the end, like anything.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 11, 2010, 08:37:10 PM
The trans will have a 2" OD band and a A+ billet servo so I'm not worried about killing it;)
Yes I'm running a big ass trans cooler. The one the guy is putting in (I'm letting him do it because I got a good deal) is about 12"x17".
Yes I'm running a non-lock up torque converter:D
I'm excited about this trans. It's only 11 days till I take the car in. It's not like I'm counting or anything.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 11, 2010, 08:55:07 PM
Niiiiiiice :D Sounds like you got the works. Hope the roads are clean when you get it back!
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2010, 10:45:32 AM
The roads are clear now thanks to all the rain we've had over the last week:D
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2010, 01:52:42 PM
I've been running AOD with the epoxy mod for over 10 years(did it myself), have never missed the OD lock out... With 3:73s, it's a non-issue...
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 12, 2010, 04:18:50 PM
Quote from: TurboCoupe50;313862
I've been running AOD with the epoxy mod for over 10 years(did it myself), have never missed the OD lock out... With 3:73s, it's a non-issue...
That's what I figured. Since I also have 3.73 gears it shouldn't really hunt much if at all between 3rd and OD.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 12, 2010, 04:27:24 PM
I've driven mine through the mountains of western VA and WV(I-64), it never once shifted down out of overdrive and I run a lockup converter... I've traveled old US 60 from Charleston WV to Lewisburg and yeah it shifted down on some of those turns you have to slow to 20mph, but it never hunted...
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 16, 2010, 10:57:18 PM
It goes in tomorrow. I'll be reporting back on Friday when I get it back as to how fun it is ;)
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 17, 2010, 12:00:59 AM
Woohoo!! Can't wait to hear, I'm sure you can't wait to try it!
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 17, 2010, 12:04:00 AM
It's gotta be better than it is now. 2nd gear slips so bad that anything over 1/4 throttle in 2nd and the motor just freewheels :hick:
Title: converter
Post by: t.birdsc on March 19, 2010, 01:13:43 AM
That pi should wake it up. :burnout: A cheapo tci lockup improved my 60' with a weaker motor. The track times will improve :evilgrin::evilgrin: Good luck!
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 19, 2010, 10:15:39 PM
Well I won't get the T-bird back till Tuesday. Turns out that PI sent the trans guy a lock up 2800 stall converter in a 31 spline, non lock up converter box :hick:. He said this is the first time in ten years he's been ordering from PI that they have screwed up. He called PI and they are built the converter today and are next day air shipping it Monday morning so he will have it by 10 am Tuesday morning. The sucky part is that the trans is done and all he had to do was put the converter on and bolt the trans back up to the engine.
The nice thing is that the car will sit in his shop until it is done and I pick it up Tuesday. He only works on one car at a time and keeps them in his shop until they are picked up.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 20, 2010, 12:28:52 AM
DOH!!!! :( Oh well, sounds like they've got it under control and are doing the best they possibly can.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 23, 2010, 04:31:56 PM
Alright its Tuesday!!!! There better be pairs of marks all over shiznit-cago!!!!! :hick:
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 23, 2010, 11:45:01 PM
Yes I got the car back today and holy shiznit does it perform much better:D. Full throttle from a stop burns the tires for 10 to 15 feet and and spins them again on the 1-2 up shift. It pulls like crazy. It's much faster than it was even when the stock AOD was in good shape. If I slip my foot from the brake right to the gas and mash it the car will bark the tires and rocket ahead barking the 1-2 shift. I also found out that it will break the tires loose on a 4-2 full throttle downshift at 50 mph, much to the chagrin of a 350Z who couldn't figure out how the hell a 22 year old T-bird was passing his ass:D
Yeah it hauls ass now. I can't wait to get it to the track in a month or so. People have no idea how fun a worked over AOD is. The guy who built the trans told me when I picked it up that "it moves out pretty good for a big car".
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 23, 2010, 11:50:33 PM
Oh and this is the guy who built my trans: http://www.tsiracing.com/history.htm He has a Vortech 5.0 Mustang as the shop car running the same trans that's in my car. It runs 9s.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 24, 2010, 10:00:19 AM
Sweeeeeeeeeet :D And yea I bet thats exactly what he said LOL. Theyre always runnin' something stupid-fast themselves so we're like holy shiznit and theyre like "yea it gets outta its own way".
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 24, 2010, 10:25:20 PM
To me the car feels awfully fast but I drive a 3.8 MN-12 T-bird every day so what do I know;).
Maybe I should start saving money for a Jay Allen custom cam and head package. Then the car would be "fast.....er" :burnout:
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ZondaC12 on March 24, 2010, 11:05:42 PM
Yea I think the cat seems even faster this year because it's not doing DD duty anymore, a lead barge is. :hick:
But knowing what mine does, yours seems to be similar in options, etc (read: DEAD WEIGHT :rollin:) so its gotta be awesome given you have even more top end and just power and torque overall 'cause youve got the full gt-40 setup and a mild cam.
Given funds and other factors Im standing pat for awhile. Looks like YOU definitely have the bug and it's only getting worse lol.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 25, 2010, 06:01:32 PM
Yeah my T-bird is a fatty. The only option it does not have is a sunroof. With a full tank of gas it's really close to 3600lbs. The trans shifts at 5200 rpm, right where the cam runs out (range is from 1200-5200 rpm) so it seems like it just has full power with my foot to the floor. The stock AOD took forever to shift too. I swear it tagged the rev limiter one or twice at the track :hick:
I'm going to the track on April 24th barring any rain out. I'm curious to see what this luxo-barge runs now;)
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: irv on March 26, 2010, 01:50:34 PM
im just glad youre happy with it. sounds like a kick a-- combination.enjoy--irv
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: Kitz Kat on March 26, 2010, 04:01:43 PM
Good job, I kinda miss the auto! It's nice when there right. I still like to slap gears though, wish I had a switch to do both.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: TurboCoupe50 on March 26, 2010, 10:33:21 PM
Cool, I knew you'd love it...
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: daminc on March 26, 2010, 10:37:23 PM
Quote from: Kitz Kat;315973
Good job, I kinda miss the auto! It's nice when there right. I still like to slap gears though, wish I had a switch to do both.
you need the black cat back
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: V8Demon on March 26, 2010, 10:38:50 PM
Welcome to the world of crisp shifting automatics ;)
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 28, 2010, 12:57:32 AM
I think my AOD was fubar even before the HO swap. The 4R70W in my 95 shifted much better but I chalked that up to electronic controls. Now the 4R70W sucks in comparison to the AOD :D
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: thunderjet302 on March 31, 2010, 11:18:03 PM
I drove the car around today for about 2 hours and yeah it's fun. With the converter I get ~15.5 mpg driving on a 40 mph road with lights. The trip computer says 18.1 mpg but it's a liar as I calculated it to be 15.5 mpg. I think it's off because of the 24lb injectors.
Oh and it'll pull on a 4.6 3V Mustang GT at 40 mph. Don't ask how I know;)
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: Kitz Kat on April 01, 2010, 06:48:37 PM
shiznit, I get 99mpg down hill. Like said before a good auto is great.
Title: 2800 stall converter?
Post by: ricktjr on June 29, 2010, 06:50:50 PM
Quote from: ZondaC12;313669
Daaaaaaamn that's gonna be a nice tranny haha. Especially the epoxy mod that's sick. Are you doing the electronic switch for OD thing? Or just leaving it up to keeping your foot down? lol
The converter that someone on clickclick hooked me up with, was purported to be about 2400 rpm like I said I wanted...but ended up being 2800-3000. :rollin: Let me tell you the thing is a BLAAAAST. Now...youll have to kinda get used to the "rubbery" feel of it at say 40 mph and 2000 ish rpm, it'll rev up more without moving forward accordingly if you just ease into the pedal. Think of it like going to a go-kart place at an amusp00get park, the ones with the little 9 horsepower honda power equipment engines. They have those centrifugal clutches on em and half the time they're beat to shiznit. Kiiiinda like that, just not *as* bad.
But of course, when you're at a dead stop, and you firewall it, don't expect to get traction anytime soon. ;) That 300 lb-ft of torque is a lotta fun when its applied immediately. Best thing ever....go through an EZ-Pass/Fast Lane/whatever you guys have, so you have to slow down to 5-10 mph, then STOMP it. Make sure your head is against the headrest!!!!
And yes, get a good cooler. Get one of the black stacked plate ones, make sure it's say a foot sqaure in surface area. I have two of em in series they're 3/4 that big if that. Im a paranoid freak, and having one didn't cool it enough for me. I had a fluke temp meter on it for awhile and it would always slowly climb to 180-190. I know that's not destruction but I want a solid 160 all the time lol.
I just read your answer and I appreciate the effort you used to thoroughly answer the question. You answered any questions I had and I look foreward to getting my 2800-3000 stall converter.