Alright, I could have swore I posted this but I can't find the thread. My problem is, if the car has been sitting for an hour or more it starts right up, If i drive it down town to get a coffee or a gallon of milk, shut it off and try to start it 5 mins later when I come out, it struggles, like there is a dead battery. The battery is new as of 3 months ago. It did this with the old battery too. Is there something else that could be causing this? I checked the voltage previously, and it was fine, even with everything on, the rear window defrost, high blower, lights and radio I get 12.xx volts to the battery, so the alternator is working fine.
Heatsoaked starter? This exact same thing used to happen in a 71 Firebird Formula i had. The heat would radiate off the headers and cause the starter to do the same thing you described.
Common problem with the large ford starters. When you replace it, get a mini high torque starter.
If you have some R-12 you aren't going to use, could always give the starter a blast before you try to crank it...:hick:
Yep,starter.
Make sure the engine ground on the block is tight.
what comes to mind is battery terminals then the starter. Thats where i would start is the cables then if it continues then look into a starter.
I might suspect that if he said he had trouble starting it other than just when it was hot.
If he had said it was hard to start first thing in the morning, I would say bad battery(Dead cell). But he didn't.
Besides replacing the starter for an expensive high torque mini starter, is there anything else I can do? If i put my booster pack on the battery, even when its almost dead(the booster pack) its usually enough to kick the car over. So when its hot does it have more resistance and therefore need more juice? I know the Oldsmobile has a heat shield, were these cars supposed to have one? Is there anything else I can do?
You know, I'm not real big on starter repair, I have tried jumping motors with this problem, and it really doesn't help. You either find a way to kick off the motor within the first rev(Which is how my old 3.8 was) or replace the starter. Anyone with different experience feel free to correct me, but that's what I know.
Also, you should be able to grab a high torque out of the junkyard(V6 mustang/I6 Econoline, etc, I believe Just no late model v8s.) and with minor wiring modifications, it should work just fine. I say should because, I have a new style starter for mine, but didn't install it because the old one worked fine, so...I don't know for sure.
I had this exact same problem with mine. Turns out the heat from the headers did a number on the starter. Replaced the starter with a high torque mini, and haven't had a problem since. I also chose to put heat wrap on the new starter, just in case.
Everyone keeps mentioning headers, I only have a stock exhaust, would this make a difference? I'm just checking.
The next time it won't turn over, feel the starter and see how hot it is.
Did you check the battery voltage when it won't start?
If the car is stock a stock starter will work fine.
Make sure the negative battery cable connection on the engine block is tight.
I just reread the original post , and what I noticed is he said he was getting 12xx volts
I might be wrong but shouldn't it be more like 13.6 to 15.3 volts when the car is running , I just double checked my car my meter reads 13.8 at idle
Sure header heat will kill a starter faster, but those large ford ones do just wear out, even on a stock motor. I've seen this problem on I6's all stock. You could go with a stock replacement, but you might have the same problem in the future, plus, the small ones don't have to work as hard due to torque multiplication, so it's easier on everything.
Hypo - With everything running on a stock alt, 12 something is acceptable. And if it wasn't, I could hardly see this being only a "after driving" issue.
I am assuming the trips are rather short and I was thinking with a "NEW" battery it might not be charging quite enough but not actually discharging .
I have seen a new battery sometimes "come back" after sitting for a few hours
I just thought it might be worth looking at a little closer .
Just in case
I would argue the starter is just beat...shortly after shutoff...the engine heatsoaks and a heat-soaked intake charge takes more effort to compress. I had this same issue with my '38 Buick and that's a 6-volt system so it throws more into the mix...wondering if the old-school system is just junk, etc. A lot of frustration but it was several bad connections that were REALLY limiting the current flow. Enough to spin it over when cold, but not enough for that extra kick needed to turn over a hot engine. Note Im saying *hot* not *warmed-up*. A just-warmed-up engine would still be easier to turn over than a heat-soaked engine.
So again my point is your starter/connections/whatever is lacking, is not lacking enough to not start the car easily in the best of conditions.
I agree.
Always clean and check all connections first, and the starter is probably bad I was just throwing something else out there .:D
Can you elaborate a little on this?
I thought hot air was less dense than cold air.
I'll be sure to check the voltage next time it wont start, and feel the starter to see actually how hot it is. I would say any trip I take that is longer than say 5 minutes it'll happen. I've checked and rechecked all of the battery connections and the one of the block. That was my first though. The cables appear to be original to the car, the positive and negative. The negative is probably worse of the two, some of the metal lines in the coating are a little corroded, nothing major though. I only know this because I put a new terminal connector on it a few months back.
Hypo, the 12.xx volts is with everything on, the rear window defrost, blower on high, lights and the radio. If all isn't on its up around 13.8-14 ish volts. So the alt and battery seem okay.
:rollin:
:rollin: x2!
A stock starter is fine for starting,,especially in this case where its faulty when warm.
checking the voltage doesnt do squat,,, you either need to use a clamp on amp meter to monitor the amps drawn during crank. I saw that voltage number he posted as well but my next step would be to test the load its drawing.
I suppose you could just use a volt meter and observe the voltage during crank to see if the potential drops say.... below 9.
I also dug though a bunch of your older threads and could find one associated to this problem,, although there are many.
To controdict myself a little,, if the starter is getting hot, things expand like steel ect so the brushes might be getting in a bind within the starter,,therefore possibly a fauty starter. Thats just a lot of "heat soak" to explain off though.
This sounds like a good place to focus :D
I'm still in agreement that the starter is probably just worn out though.
Is your timing at 10*?