I live in California with retarded emission standards. I have a V6 cougar that passes the emission side of the emission test but it wont pass completely until the guy sees the check engine light come on for 3 seconds when you turn the car on. The guy says to just replace the bulb, but I cant find it. I pulled off the dash and got into the instrument panel and still dont see where the light is supposed to be or how to get to it. The section on here about the instrument panel was imformative, but it doesnt say where the lights are supposed to be or how to get into it. I have the "base" dash that has the digital speedo, but is not the full electronic dash. Any help would be appreciated.
shine a flashlight along the lower left of the instrument cluster and you will see the section allocated to the check engine bulb.
from there you can get to it pretty easy. I guess your biggest concern was locating the light.
Thanks for the help. I found where it was supposed to be. The problem now is finding a new socket and installing it since someone took it out before me. I have a feeling that the light is going to be on all the time because of some stupid computer code. Whats the protocol for clearing the check engine light?
Unhook your battery cable (positive) and let it sit for awhile. Overnight, if possible.
Jesus, Cali is worried about a bulb in the dash?
I suppose I'm an evil evil person for having gutted cats.
typically, you can borrow a socket from another function that is not either being used or wired ect. this is your call. Perhaps low washer fluid or some other socket you know is not emissions critical.
advice 2,, if you love your state,, thats great. i just hear so many things i wonder sometimes how people can even afford to live there.
I thought about grabbing a socket from somewhere else, but its a special twist in socket that connects to a flexible print circuit the folds around from behind the instrument cluster. There is plastic behind it that the socket uses for leverage to make contact with the printed circuit tape. There are 2 other sockets tothe left of the check engine light, but there are no lenses for the bulbs positions and no spare sockets to use. Im making a trip to the Ford dealer tomorrow to procure one or two along with some spare bulbs.
Ill try resetting the check engine with the battery, but Im doubtful because i just replaced the battery and have disconnected it a few times before that to charge the bad one overnight. I just hope the socket fixes my problem.
As far as living in CA even though theyre buttstuff about dash bulbs, its worth it. Yes it costs more to live here, but you make more, there are more opportunities. Also the women are hotter, the weather is perfect and if you want to drive 2 hours you can be in the mountains (with snow), the desert, the forest, or a foreign country (Mexico).
you sound very loyal and proud,, respectable:D
welcome to the board.
So I went to the junkyard and got myself a new socket and bulb for the check engine light. Now the light comes on for 3 seconds and then blinks for about a minute before shutting off. Does this mean check the engine or is this normal? Ive only had the car for a few weeks and ive never seen how it is supposed to be.
not normal.
is there a jumper wire installed up at the connectors where codes are read?
normal would be it comes on with the key in accy or for just a moment while cranking if at all.
In NY a car will fail for this as well. The DMV DOES send out undercover cars to check inspection stations on occasion to ensure that they are holding up to the standards set in place. The missing check engine light bulb is a common trick they use to trump up inspection stations.
Fines for passing a car with a blatant violation (i.e. no cats) can be $1000....
times are lean,, could start happening a lot more.
Where are codes read? Do i need special equipment for that or is there a display on the car?
its really easy,, just troll up to the search button,, lots and lots of posts on this plus diagrams with the tool you need.
got a paper clip?
So I decided to just say shag it with the engine code bullshiznit. Why spend time and money fixing problems when I can just use my superior electrical knowledge to bypass this pesky check engine light?
This is what I did. Picked up a 12VDC agastat (electronic timer) from Frys Electronics that's adjustable from 0.5-5 seconds. I then wired the ignition hot to the input of the agastat and the output of the agastat to the check engine light. Then adjusted the agastat to the required 3 seconds. When the car turns on the agastat lets the bulb light up for 3 seconds then shuts off until the ignition hot goes low, then hot again. The whole thing costs me around $10 for all the supplies, and with the agastat hidden under dash panels the emission technician is none the wiser.
Im AWESOME!!!
I applaud your ingenuity sir . I do think you might want to find out what is actually going on though
i knew you were smart,, but didnt know you would do something that dumb.:hick:
instead you could have typed "pull codes" in the seach bar and found this.......
http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/showthread.php?t=27140&highlight=pulling+codes&page=3
ever put a resistor and capacitor in parallel? thats the simple version of what you got, and RC time constant of 3 sec for a cost of prob (whatcha got layin around on old circuit boards).
seriously though, pulling codes is easy and you dont need the check engine light either although one option of pulling codes uses the check engine light.
If ever a shop pulls the codes, they will find the timer.
Ill bet CA would have some way of getting away with pulling codes to verify things during an inspection.
That's cool, You beat the system!. You got to do what you got to do.
Surely, a simple bulb wouldn't be beyond your "superior electrical knowledge" to fix, now, would it?
Run the codes, find out the possibilities, and you'll probably see that putting the timer in was a waste of time. As was posting about it. As was reading, and replying to it.
Why band-aid a problem, when it's probably an easy fix, especially to an Electrical Einstein like yourself?
Do you have any relatives that work at a Shell gas station, or as an Air Traffic Controller? :flip::rollin:
OK, all b.s. aside, seriously, check the codes. please.
and let us know what you find.
I ran the codes and this is what I got.
24 intake/vane air temperwture sensor out of range.
94 air system inoperative
transmission TCC circuit/solenoid problem.
44 air system inoperative.
31 EVP out of range.
The only one I really understand is 24, the rest are pretty vauge and potentially exspensive sounding.
By the way, I'm not related to anyone who works at a gas station because I'm not an Indian (dot, or feather), or a terrorist (Islamic variety). I'm not related to anyone who is an ATC either but I think its more important not to be related to a gas station employee, even if it is a nice one like shell.
24 ACT (Air Charge Temperature) sensor. Called manifold charge temp sensor in the pic.
31 EVP (Egr Valve Position) sensor.
44 Thermactor Air
94 Thermactor Air
If the above three codes are all KOER (Key On Engine Running) codes, I am guessing you may have lost vacuum to the row of five solenoids in the second pic. These are solenoid controlled vacuum valves. They are located under the radiator expansion tank.
The codes were obtained using the paperclip method and counting the blinks from the check engine light while the engine was running. I was sure to bring the engine up to normal temperature before I shut it off, connected the paperclip, and restarted to count the blinks. Does it make a difference which method I use? Would I get different codes? Thanks for the diagnosis and pictures. Hopefully it sounds like all I need is a new ACT sensor and some vacuum lines to the solenoids.
You get the same codes no matter what method you use.
However there are three categories of codes. It can be helpful to know which category they are.
1. KOEO (Key ON Engine Off): Runs tests and reports results.(on demand codes)
2. Then after a pause and a one pulse separator it reads out the codes stored in the KAM (Keep Alive Memory) These are stored while driving. They may be intermittents.
These codes can be reset by removing the jumper while the codes are reading out, or disconnecting the battery. Disconnecting the battery resets some other stuff in the KAM and it may idle and run poorly until it reestablishes its' tables in the KAM. If you replace any sensors you do want to disconnnect the battery.
3. KOER engine running codes.
With KOEO you should have 4-6 volts across the two wires to the ACT sensor.
The resistance of the sensor should be between 1.1K and 58K ohms. The resistance increases as it warms up.
You can find the color code of the vacuum line for the solenoids on the decal on the fan shroud.
I'm just guessing on the missing vacuum. Trying t find one solution to multiple problems.
Run KOEO codes and see what you get.
There is a vacuum reservior black plastic can that is teed into the vacuum line to the solenoids. On my 84 it is just below the windshield washer filler hole.
the EVP is the sensor atop the egr valve. when you take it off, you'll completly understand whats going on. A vaccuum diaphram moves and pushes the variable resistor pin which changes the voltage drop.
At the solenoid bank behind the coolant fill tank,
trace the locate the green connection and undo it. put vac on the end and see how long it takes for the vac pres to bleed off. if it bleeds off inside of 5sec,, the line is jacked up.
Repeat above steps to test the vac diaphram at the egr,, if there is a hole in the diaphram, the diaphram cant move so the evp sensor cant change values.
repeat the above for the:
tan and black vac lines- goes to the pass side smog tubing
red vac line- goes to the engine intake dead center rear but it also Tee's off to another connection which you can isolate
In a nutshell, you want to find one end of the vac line, then cap off the other, add vac presure or suction to one end and see if its holding suction.
along the coolant fill tank there is a white vaccuum parrallel tube which all lines come to. there is a possibility that its cracked which is common to all of the solenoids behind the coolant fill tank.
here is some other stuff..........all the below results are with the car in its static state, meaning no power applied.
=============================
EGR/emissions solenoids (codes)
Dual Thermactor Air control Solenoid Valve- both should read 51-108 ohms
EGR Solenoid Vacuum Valve Assembly - both should read 32 to 64 ohms
EGR Valve Position Sensor EVP (OR/W to brn/ltgrn resistance is 5.5k with no vac and 100ohms with vac)(4-6vdc on VREF or/wht)
Electronic Vacuum Regulator EVR 30 to 70 ohms (koeo voltage is about 10.5vdc)
============================\
EGR test and EVP sensor test
apply vac pres to egr vac line fitting.
if it holds the diaphram for a long time,, the diaphram is good
remove carbon buildup on egr base as well as egr base plate assy for 3.8l engines
EVP test (egr sensor)
wire id...
EEC PIN 26 "VREF" orange/white (parallels off to map)
EEC PIN 27 "EVP SIGNAL" brown/light green
EEC PIN 46 "SIG Return" black/white (parallels off to self test conn)
disconnect vac line
disconnect elec conn
hook ohm meter up to the VREF adn EVP Sig contacts
hook up vac guage or apply vac to egr
ohm meter should start out at about 5.5k ohms.
as vac is increased to max, resistance should bottom out to no less than 100ohms.
key on, engine off
cap off vac fitting on evp sensor
measure for 4 to 6 volts dc between VREF and SIGNAL RETURN (ground)
______________________________
ECT sensor test feeds the computer
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms
next clean the end of the sensor with scotch brite ect and retest
if high temps persist, replace coolant temp sensor and ECT as a matched set.
if that does not work, start looking at your coolant system parts.
----------------------
ACT sensor test ,,,feeds the computer
Resistance test pin to pin of the sensor (this is a variable resister proportional to temperature including outside air temp if the motor is cold)
at 50degF=58K ohms
at 65degF=40K ohms
at 180degF=3.6K ohms
at 220degF=1.8K ohms
My '87 doesn't even HAVE a check engine light (wiring doesn't even exist). Was this a CA only "option" in '87???
Just curious.
Possibly, maybe someome removed the light like on mine. The check engine light is a small bulb with a socket that twists into a plastic socket with a printed circuit ribbon in between. Its on the lower left side of the dash. I was told that the check engine light is standard on all Cougars that year, so if youre really curious, remove the left dash cover and see if the sockets and printed ribbon is there.
according to literature i have in storage(yea, not on me at the moment) it stated only half of the 87 cars had a functional check engine light even though they are present and have been since 86 or so . they werent wired in on 86 cars but all 88+ had a funtional check engine light.
your car doesnt likely have a functioning one.
tomorrow after work ill grab the book and see if something in it will help you with your emissions overlords.
edit: grabbed the book but it doesnt state a specific bulliten number or anything usefull in that sense.
but, it does say that pretty much all cars(not trucks) with everything but 5.0s had a check engine light, 3.8 included.
that they were not all functional untill 88 and up. never had a 5.0 anything so i dont know about that.
weird.
Hmmmm, I did have the cluster out for the speedo mod, and don't recall if the ribbon is in place for a light or not. I don't think so, but I don't recall for sure. The socket is there IIRC.
87's had the light. As far as I know. unless someone took it out! Like me, got tired of seeing it on, when I know it has nothing to do with my emissions. That I don't have no more. I can't really say I'm running green either. I'm really not goin to comply either for some what like 400 miles a year. If my car was original "then maybe I would". Maybe!
ran codes on two 86 5.0's in the past using a paper clip and the check engine light, as well as my 87 5.0, so this information is not correct.
if what you say is true thats very dissappointing :/
does anyone have an 86 5.0 "right now" and can verify this, i would hate to have a paper resource for info that is totally worthless by being so incorrect.
i know my 86 3.8 didnt have a funtional CEL by the factory, neither did the other 86 i had.